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Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
You seem to have somehow drafted a nation that is like Gath but worse. Meditate on this.

I mean maybe there is some change between dom3 and dom4 (I've been too busy to pick up the latter) that makes Gath not the worst but I'm going to assume Gath is still hot garbage.

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Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Like until I can see what all else everyone else has I can't be sure you didn't just literally miss every single other cap-only H3 mage priest but Kohen Gadol are just so bad.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

PotatoManJack posted:

So if SCs are out in Doms 4 - what's the new end game all about? Are Wish Engines still a thing?

e: Will definitely be following this - I love a good Dominions LP even though they almost never get completed

I'd assume it's about troops supported by battle-magic and beardy summons.

Or you don't get to the endgame because you're next to Mictlan, which seems even more likely now given they decided to add in Mayan and Incan themed Mictlan-likes.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

fool_of_sound posted:

I am going to do big explanatory writeups for the other nations' draft choices as we encounter them, so don't worry about that.

It's fortunate you don't need to do one for the OP, I'd imagine you'd have a nervous breakdown right at the start trying to figure out Kohen Gadol as a choice.

He's just so expensive and actually costs resources.

Like if we just confine ourselves to LA you could have a Nagarishi for 40 more gold.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Aug 5, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Bandar Log summons also gets him hilarious grandstanding poo poo like Mandeha.

Like he'll probably NEVER actually summon such a thing but if he's winning we might see such a crazy thing.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Yeah Mandeha can be pretty sweet if you've got a lot of demons that don't give a poo poo about darkness.

EDIT: And yeah looking over the items Air Boosters are just a much of a pain in the rear end as they were in Dom3, so getting an A1 blood mage up to A2 isn't really the ideal way to summon storm demons.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Aug 6, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Also do remember that's average melee hits to clear, AoE magic negates most of those defenses.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

Libluini posted:

Fun fact: When modding, I found out by accident that there are actually holy gems hidden in the code of Dominions 4. You can mod a spell to use the holy path as first gem requirement, which in effect creates a spell you can never cast since the game demands holy gems, which you can't get. They are probably a weird artefact of programming, leftover from a time when the devs wanted to implement holy gems.

Or it's actually possible to create holy gems and I just didn't find out yet how to mod them into the game. :shrug:

They're almost certainly an artifact of the spell system.

Dominions modding has always been a loving mess of weird poo poo that makes you beg for death after a while, after all.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Aug 6, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Hey man you're supposed to be judging but now you're going to win that's unfair.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Yeah remember that a lot of this is different than the dom3 lore. Ermor fucks everything up in similar but not identical ways in dom3 since Death doesn't actually get unleashed properly until LA there.

Also back in 3 Death was VERY strongly hinted to in fact be Zombie Jesus.

The water nations are funny because despite the names R'lyeh is as much stuff stolen from D&D as Lovecraft references, if anything Atlantis is much more Lovecraft. Yes even the Eskimos (there were definitely a cult of Inuit that worshipped Cthulhu mentioned in a story but I don't remember the deets).

Feinne fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Aug 11, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Yeah just because Warlocks are able to make everything terrible if you let Abysia live way longer than they should doesn't stop Abysia being pretty bad.

An important dominions skill is knowing when different nations are at their peaks of power and therefore how safe you are to engage at any given time. And for Abysia, that time is 'before they poo poo horrors all over you'. If you let an Abysia get to the point where they can send horrors you're in the bad place. The bloodbowl thread would describe it as gently caress City and I think that's pretty appropriate for fighting horror spam.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

fool_of_sound posted:

You should enter the spectacular and rewarded world of Dominions 4 modding. It's all extremely well documented and works exactly as it should.

Don't do this it's a trap.

I don't even have to look at the dom4 modding manual to know that anything they added or 'improved' just resulted in it being even more arcane.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Oh god the Niefelheim guide don't even need to open the link.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Ah ha ha Earthbound, oh lordy.

Let's take the only possible mitigating factor for the horrific encumbrance of Caelian troops and exchange it for EVEN MORE encumbrance.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

Nuclearmonkee posted:

They buffed them in Caelum patch so they have xbows and are basically thicker sacred tower guard instead of worthless now.

Well, at least that gives them a role.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

Speleothing posted:

I'm pretty sure this is 50% incorrect, but I also haven't written a mod in like 8 months, so what do I know?

It's actually more convoluted than making a summon spell in dom3 if that's accurate which is pretty lol.

Not MUCH more convoluted but you didn't need to add the monster number to the #effect before.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Aug 12, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

jBrereton posted:

You don't now.

Here's a working spell from a mod I made:

#newspell
#name "Raise Fomorian Spearmen"
#descr "With this spell, a mage brings three Fomorian Spearman from the dead. Although talented warriors, these troops have lost much of their magic resistance during the passage back to their false life."
#school 0
#restricted 144
#researchlevel 0
#path 0 5
#pathlevel 0 2
#effect 10001
#fatiguecost 300
#damage 3768
#nreff 3
#end

The #damage is the monster number.

Yeah that's (as in, your example) how it worked in 3 so I thought it sounded odd that it would have an extra pointless step.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
That's bizarre, the unitid should go in the #damage entry for a summon.

I feel like something weird is going on with your .dm or something.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

Libluini posted:

According to some random goon on IRC, my mod has already been played by other people. Strangely enough, the spells work for them, too.

The spell damage is the negative montag-value and the unit-id is added to the #effect-order. For some strange reason I have to tell the game that the spell is a summoning-ritual, what it is supposed to summon, how many things I want and then again what I want summoned with the montag-value. If I change anything, the spell instead summons random garbage.

And I know this works because I had giant headaches trying to force the spells to work before I found this solution. It works and it is plausible according to the manual, so I'm content with it. :colbert:

Oh I feel you on it, it's just strange that it works that way because that's way more convoluted than the dom3 version.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
To extend that Flavah was so terrifying to most players that they'd be willing to ally with him even though it was to their eventual detriment because they didn't want to be the guy getting stomped.

Because many people were legit afraid they'd not be able to win even with a coalition. And because more importantly more astute players realized that most likely everyone in your 'coalition' is going to try and expend the minimum effort and let someone else be the guy who gets their game ruined trying to defeat Flavah early.

Basically never rely on anyone ever because most people who will put earnest effort into something like defeating a player who 'has to lose' are either naive as hell and therefore of limited value or are just as dangerous as the person you're trying to dogpile. I myself fell into the 'shitlord you could rely on to drop out at the first setback' category. Mainly because I was VERY sensitive to being 'that guy who is taking most of the casualties'.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Aug 13, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Whoever did the nation with EA Sauromancers goofed, you could have had a whole nation of sacreds if you'd taken the LA ones since they're also priests. Not that there's much of a REASON to but might as well square that circle.

I'm also biased towards LA Sauros because of the unholy allure of banefire.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

Nuclearmonkee posted:

LAs are 285g instead of 210 and require a temple to make too though.

True. I'm just biased towards them because they are the signature mage of my favorite dom3 nation.

Skeleton chaaaaariots.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Oh so to be clear all this backstabbery talk has nothing to do with gem/item trades. By wide agreement breaking one of those is in fact actual cheating and will quickly make you a pariah.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

fool_of_sound posted:

Could be worse. Modpud would literally change her irc logs to pretend she had a different deal with you than she did.

Like if it's about a gem/item trade I'd equally consider that cheating, but if it's some other diplomatic thing it's really way more effort than is needed. Just give the guy a heads up that you're totally breaking the agreement a few turns after you've attacked them and you're solid.

People get really huffy about diplomatic stuff which is why my policy was never to agree to anything with actual terms. Hell people got huffy like I'd had an NAP even when I literally responded to their offer with 'I will attack you whenever I feel like it'.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Aug 15, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
There IS however spitefully making sure some guy you don't like for some reason LOSES and taking that as a meta-victory.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
One interesting diplomatic situation is Morlockia having one of Baudin's cap circle provinces. Baudin would not be unreasonable in asking him to cede it, and unless Morlockia is actively planning to attack the expectation would be that he will do so.

Like neither of them really wants to get into a dumb fight over something like that right now because they're surrounded by stronger neighbors and regardless of who 'wins' the war they're both out of the game at that point.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 20, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

ChickenWing posted:

Generally people will now ask for an "indy-clearing-fee", some small arbitrary sum potentially plus the income they might have received over the next couple turns if the province is particularly valuable.

I know I've started a war over it before, in roughly this same situation.

Oh yeah it's totally worth starting a war over if you think you can remain unmolested while it's occurring on either side. You kind of NEED to push the guy out of your cap circle whether it's willing or not and if you have any idea that you can take the other guy if you can get their cap sieged before they've got a second fort up you might be able to just absorb their poo poo with minimal effort.

It's risky if you haven't made some sort of agreement with larger neighbors though, because they don't actually WANT you to double in size from 'total joke' to 'maybe contender?' and your forces will be pretty depleted by the war effort for a bit. So the general expectation if you don't have good reason to believe otherwise is that they'll invade you when your forces hit a low ebb.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Aug 20, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
God that IS a terrible nation.

Like if you wanted a skelespammer there were still LA Sauromancers, who can also all Bane Fire as well. And they can rarely end up with some scary high D levels.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Yeah all that armor is very deceptive because they'll quickly hit the fatigue point where it stops really helping anymore.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Yeah and at least they can't fly and thus don't suffer from The Caelian Problem.

So I don't know if it's still this way but Caelian troops were pretty poo poo in dom3 because of a combination of factors:

1) All Caelians have terrible encumbrance because they're weak birdymans. This seems to still be the case in 4.

2) Using flying in combat cost fatigue, so they pick up fatigue even faster.

3) Caelians were pretty universally poo poo at fighting.

So generally what would happen is you'd want an alpha strike from them and instead they'd fly in, feebly swing at something failing to kill it with their noodle arms, then they'd get splatted.

I suspect this isn't quite so bad in dom4 since there seems to have been a patch entirely dedicated to making Caelum have strategies not 100% dependent on hitting things with lightning bolts (which while it is a good trick does have counterplays).

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Every Mictlan is really brutal and people refusing to gently caress with them are signing their own death warrants.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Bizarrely Kohen Gadol are almost useful in the situation of 'guy poo poo out a bunch of skeletons'. I mean they're still too expensive for what they do but you'll at least get some level of value out of them because they can dispel undead in battle much more efficiently than they can be raised.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

BurlapNapkin posted:

In defense of your master smiths plan: the Kohen Gadol are slow to recruit and cap only. They do banish skeletons way better than one necromancer summons them. Six necromancers though, not so much, and they don't advance any of your actual plans for the future like Master Smiths.

Oh yeah for sure that, really he just needs a bunch of priests in general. Like I think he has an H2 and that's also pretty okay for Banishment.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
Yeah if you can summon epower you should almost always do that first.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
To explain for the uninitiated, Summon Earthpower is a spell that an Earth mage can cast to become better at Earth magic by one level for a battle and also gain some Reinvigoration, which restores Fatigue every turn. This actually improves their endurance in battle in two ways. The obvious is that spells cost Fatigue to cast, so anything that improves their ability to reduce Fatigue lets them cast longer. The slightly less obvious is that the Fatigue cost of spells decreases the higher your path level is relative to the requirement, so not only are you getting some of your Fatigue removed every turn, every Earth spell you cast for the rest of the battle is cheaper.

I'm pretty sure dom3 and therefore I'd assume dom4 can philosophically handle path levels above 10 as a result of things like boosts so even E10 has a decent reason to pop it up. Especially since by E10 I'm pretty sure Earthpower's fatigue cost is so low that it only cost you the turn and the scripting slot (honestly the latter is the important one, god only knows what idiocy the AI will do once you go off script).

Feinne fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Sep 24, 2015

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.

jBrereton posted:

At E11, Flying Shards has to be effective, right?

Right?

Well I think you get more and quantity is a sort of quality in some regards.

That said if you can cast E11 Flying Shards you can also E11 Blade Wind at the very minimum and one of these two things is much more effective.

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Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.
That was rather a lot of turns worth of longdead to slaughter, you've taken out a whole bunch of turns worth of effort.

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