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Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Nuclearmonkee posted:

There are 8 magical paths. Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Nature, Death, Astral, Blood. Also holy which is for priests but it's not a real full path like the other ones as there are only a few limited holy spells and no holy gems.

Fun fact: When modding, I found out by accident that there are actually holy gems hidden in the code of Dominions 4. You can mod a spell to use the holy path as first gem requirement, which in effect creates a spell you can never cast since the game demands holy gems, which you can't get. They are probably a weird artefact of programming, leftover from a time when the devs wanted to implement holy gems.

Or it's actually possible to create holy gems and I just didn't find out yet how to mod them into the game. :shrug:

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Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

I Love You! posted:

TRIGGER WARNING: Someone else might want to continue this trend of player profiles and could maybe do a better job writing one for me than myself but I'm gonna toot my own horn much like Baudin's PD do

Well, I certainly can add my one profile to the pile.

Libluini is literally the worst. Instead of using strategy, you can assume he enters every game with a gimmick pretender and a convoluted, overly complex plan. He will then quite often change gimmick and plan mid-game because there's always a chance it didn't work out as planned, could actually never work due to misunderstood spells/gamemechanics/typos in the plan itself or because he forgot.

Libluini tends to mindlessly assemble mages and troops into gigantic deathballs, always trying to get the one final invincible deathball. He will continue to do this until someone like Hatwer comes along and destroys his giant loving armies often enough to force him to innovate. Generally speaking though, deatballs are generally a means to an end for him: Holding out for long enough his mad dreams endgame strategy finally reaches fruition. Libluini likes diplomacy though, depending on mood. He may be incommunicado sometimes for weeks, and chatting amiably with every player another time. gently caress it, everything that fucker does depends on mood.

As a fair warning: The only thing known to rise Libluini from the dream-like haze he is making his turns in is an early-game invasion. If you do that, he'll try to make your life a living hell until you at the very least have no chance at winning anymore. If you try diplomacy however, you'll find out he's willing to ally up to the point of default and to his own detriment. Until you overdo it and his mood changes, of course.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

fool_of_sound posted:

It's actually not too bad for the most part. The biggest difficulties I have are with spell modding, which does utterly unpredictable things for no apparent reason, and requires you to fiddle around a lot to get all but the simplest effects to work.

At least summoning spells are straightforward to make, as long as you can understand the mad troll moon logic behind it. Also, it works best if you make your own monsters to summon, since this way you can make absolutely sure the monsters have the right montag-value (you need that to tell your spell what to summon).

There are some traps I've encountered, though: Spell-modding uses the first path-requirement to determine what gems the spell will need, so if you're building a summon spell, don't ever use holy as first path for that spell or you get with an unusable spell demanding gems which don't exist. Another weird interaction is summoning for commanders: You can only ever summon one commander per spell. The command for telling Dominions 4 how many monsters you want per spell just flat out won't work if you tell the spell to summon a monster as a commander.

The rest is easy:

-Make monster with montag-value
-Tell spell to use montag-value as damage
-Tell spell it's a summon-spell by adjusting it's damage accordingly
-Set path-requirements
-Set gem-usage by adjusting fatigue (100 fatigue = 1 gem used)
-Set school
-Set research-level
-Set effect: Here for some reason you need to put a number determining if you want a common summon spell or a commander summon AND the monster-number
-Set number of monsters to summon
-Adjust this number for more monsters per mage-strength
-As long as the spell damage is set to summoning something, the spell will be a ritual automatically, so you're done now.

Just avoid typos, have a plan before you start and relax. It's however quite strange that you'll need to set your monster/commander essentially twice: Both as Spell-effect and with the negative montag-value as damage. It just plain doesn't work otherwise.

Libluini fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Aug 12, 2015

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

ChickenWing posted:

There's a lot of guides on the desura forums that tend to be universally poo poo. There's been a bunch of guides of varying lengths posted in the main Games thread here, but they are sorta scattered across the thread. The lack of a wiki as a central information repository is unhelpful.

I remember a guide where I poo poo you not, someone actually had the galls to suggest waiting for 10 turns before doing anything besides cap recruiting was a good idea. Translated into the game this would mean you start expansion around the time every other player has something like 9-12 provinces to your single one. :shepface:

It's a bad idea even in single-player.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Speleothing posted:

I'm pretty sure this is 50% incorrect, but I also haven't written a mod in like 8 months, so what do I know?

My spells stop working if I deviate from this, so it isn't incorrect. There may be other ways that also work, though. :shrug:

For comparison, here are two of my summon spells from my last mod:

#newspell
#name "Summon Sebettu of Water"
#descr "Summons a group of Sebettu from the Blue Tribe. The more powerful the gifted one, the more Sebettu will answer the spell."
#school 0
#researchlevel 1
#path 0 2
#pathlevel 0 1
#effect 10001 6989
#nreff 1005
#fatiguecost 400
#spec 8388608
#restricted 101
#damage -5000
#end

-Summons a group of custom monsters-

#newspell
#name "Summon Galla"
#descr "The caster summons a Galla, a skulking demon from the underworld."
#school 0
#researchlevel 5
#path 0 5
#path 1 4
#pathlevel 0 2
#pathlevel 1 1
#effect 10021 6981
#nreff 1
#fatiguecost 2000
#restricted 101
#restricted 102
#restricted 103
#damage -5008
#end

-Summons a custom commander-

They work, but only when I do it exactly like this (minus stuff like nation-restrictions, of course you can do whatever you want here).

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Feinne posted:

That's bizarre, the unitid should go in the #damage entry for a summon.

I feel like something weird is going on with your .dm or something.

According to some random goon on IRC, my mod has already been played by other people. Strangely enough, the spells work for them, too.

The spell damage is the negative montag-value and the unit-id is added to the #effect-order. For some strange reason I have to tell the game that the spell is a summoning-ritual, what it is supposed to summon, how many things I want and then again what I want summoned with the montag-value. If I change anything, the spell instead summons random garbage.

And I know this works because I had giant headaches trying to force the spells to work before I found this solution. It works and it is plausible according to the manual, so I'm content with it. :colbert:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Culka posted:

Montag works, sure, but montags are meant as lists of monsters when you want summon spells to pick one from the list at random. For example the demon lords all share a montag.

Yeah, I think it's described that way in the manual, too. The thing is, I actually started with only the unitid, as JBereton demonstrated. And it didn't work. Adding montag-values also didn't work, only after I found out #effect had to use BOTH numbers like in my examples above it started to work. Except for a couple of spells where I had forgotten to add montag-values to the monsters, there it didn't work until I added them in. :v:

Decrepus posted:

I could never get #montag to work. Either before, when I was completely retarded, or even now, as a mostly retarde.

Just copy my spells then and just change the numbers around. Every custom-monster you summon needs a custom montag-value corresponding to the negative damage value.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Speleothing posted:

The reason is probably to do with using montag values. Which are only supposed to apply to things like Tartarians and Crossbreeds where you get a random assortment of units who have that specific montag. JBrereton's method is the normal correct one.

OK maybe I wasn't blunt enough but it can't be, since it doesn't work. :mad:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Nuclearmonkee posted:

It does work though. All of my summons use unit id as do most mods I open up. Can just cheat and look at one of theirs to get the proper syntax. When I make a new modded summon I literally just paste one I did before and change the details to fit the new summon.

Well OK, it doesn't work for me. And I have working templates now, I just copy them when I make new summons. I hope you can understand I don't want to spend hours experimenting with other people's solutions when my own spells work just fine. :shrug:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

jBrereton posted:

e: PS Libluini I am 90% sure that the problem with your mods is that the #effect should be the first number on its own, followed by #damage of the second one. Maybe it's only reading the first number, and that's why you're having to gently caress about with montags and stuff.

Uh no, as I said, in some spells I forgot the second number for #effect, and the spells didn't work. Adding in the second number made it work for some reason, so the game definitely reads and needs both numbers. Let's just say that both ways work and get on with the LP, OK?

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Sloppy Milkshake posted:

I have literally never once seen this happen in a game.

I've seen it happen again and again. Not with outright betrayal, but with coalitions breaking apart left and right. In one game some dude our coalition totally ignored won the game thanks to us pretending to fight the "most dangerous player".

Other coalitions failed due to bad coordination or other players just going AI mid-war. It happens. Coalition members secretly undermining other coalition members or switching sides are also things that can and did happen, but in most cases out of lazyness, not maliciousness.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Decrepus posted:

I always use this example, but there was a game that was literally Good Guys versus Bad Guys. Even then some of the Good Guys designed their pretenders to better attack each other after the war rather than focus on killing the bad guys.

The Bad Guys won, unsurprisingly.

Yeah, but in an ironic twist, the bad guys would have won even if the "good" guys had won. :v:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Absum posted:

Teaming up with a single person to kill a third isn't a coalition. Personally I have seen actual coalitions work though, at least in the sense that everyone contributed. The real issue is that people aren't gonna join a coalition until it's too late (and I'm guilty of this as well).

Apart from that I consider Iloveyou's buddy thing kinda weird cause although a secure border is important making an actual permanent alliance is really bad, and leaving it vague makes it meaningless.

e: Neruz doesn't play anymore, he doesn't like us anymore or something idk

Aw poo poo, Neruz was one of the few players I considered as bad at making strategic moves as I am. Now I'm even further down the ladder of Dominions-competence. :smith:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Generally, I can be convinced to give it back if the other player gives me a good reason. After all, this gives me an easy way to gauge player behaviour.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Decrepus posted:

Caelum pd is great how the poor militia birdmen fly in and get shot in the back by their archers.

Ironically, you can prevent this poo poo with scripting. Scripts for firing allow archers to stop firing and start advancing until they can hit something else instead. (Of course they could still all miss and hit their own troops, but that's how the cooky crumbles sometimes.)

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

ChickenWing posted:

Because PD scripts exist

No, that was my point...

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

I Love You! posted:

how is that ironic

That post was hours ago, I forgot

How about you mentally cross out "ironically" and replace if with "interestingly" instead? I think that would make more sense, anyway.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Neruz posted:

You forgot that minor air bless also increases mundane ranged attacks range by 5% per level (20% at air magic 4, 25% at air magic 5 etc). It's only relevant on the handful of sacreds that have ranged attacks and its still terrible but it's a thing.

Minor air bless is also not a terrible idea on certain nations with good sacred mages for casting evocations; MA Ulm's Priest Smiths for example. Buuut still probably not the best use of a bless, major air bless is a complete wank.

The Half Quickness from a Major Water Bless also increases AP by 50% as well as giving a double turn every second turn.

The range increase has it's uses if you're encountering archers and want to deal with them in the most direct manner possible. If a squad of archers has higher range and targets another archer squad, it will stand outside of the enemy archer squad's range and just pelt them with impunity.

This is doubly useful if you combine a major bless with a minor air bless. From behaviour I've observed, even when scripted to attack your archers, enemy archers will at best waste a turn getting closer to your archers while arrows rain down on them, or at worst target something else and just get pasted by your sacreds. Even in the best case scenario, with about equal numbers the enemy archers will take so much more losses thanks to the initial salvo they'll break soon. Sacred archers also tend to have higher morale than other archers, which makes it possible to win counter-archery duels even in cases where the first salvo ends up ineffective.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

ChickenWing posted:

That's actually exactly what they are.

The events are all "<grigori> has sired an offspring"

Implying that the Nephil you get from the event has just been born.

Implying that it is, in fact, a giant murderous baby

Maybe the message from your civil registry office was just really, really late. Like "Oh yeah, that rampaging giant? He was born eighteen years ago. Turns out that grigori under your command sired him about 19 years ago. Sorry we never mentioned this until now, our bad. Here's the birth certificate, by the way. We put today's date on it so it doesn't look like we're incompetent jackasses processing stuff 19 years too late"

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

gbuchold posted:

Note their Age: 1 (1000)

Congratulations! It's a beautiful bouncing monster giant! Oh he's eating me

I'm telling you, that's just a filing error. Someone should file a complaint about shoddy bureaucracy with whoever your pretender put in charge of the civil registry.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

ChickenWing posted:

tonight happened, no post, rip thread

He posted at 2:34am in the morning, maybe he has the same timezone as me and meant this night? :v:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
More importantly, which game is he streaming? I'm fairly sure it can't be dom4, that would be insane. Making short battle videos is one thing, but streaming Dominions 4 in all it's glory can't possibly have a positive outcome

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Just wait until you kill all those hurin priests only for them to come back later, sans wings. :v:

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
Just wait until he finds out what happens when too many mages miss their target behind his army

or what happens when archers target an enemy squad right in front of his army and they miss



Donkringel posted:

Now try to get your pixel mans to cast spells and watch them kill themselves.

This, basically.

My favourite is and always will be a bunch of hydras accidentally poisoning my own army. Then my mages set the hydras on fire. Complete army self-destruct.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

jBrereton posted:

Also I am fairly certain that their god comes back without much reference to how many priests they have recalling it.

Really? I never had that happen. (To be fair, generally I'm killing AI-pretenders when I'm sitting on their cap, so they soon cease to exist anyway.)

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

jBrereton posted:

Yeah I had someone go AI on me in a game where they had maybe 10 holy points' worth of priests, killed their god, and like two turns later their PG appeared outside their cap I was sieging.

But I thought you only need like 30 holy points total to recall your god reliably? 10 per turn and two turns later, sounds like the AI just got lucky.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

jBrereton posted:

50 I think? Could be wrong!

I could be, too! :v:

Either way, that stuff is based on luck. The more holy points you collect, the more likely is your pretender's return. Some lucky bastard could theoretically get their god back on turn 2 with just one priest calling.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Decrepus posted:

I have never heard of such a thing.

Well, I've gotten pretenders back several turns earlier then they should be if it was a hardcoded number, so I don't think the manual lies in this case. If you hit the full number, you just get your pretender back, 100% guaranteed, but you can get your god back earlier if you're lucky.


How are u posted:

I was pretty positive that it is a flat 50 points worth of god calling to get your pretender back, and that the AI just cheats like all gently caress because it cheats at everything else as well.

The AI could still cheat, sure. But JBrereton's example is pretty much worthless to find out about this since the AI could have gotten it's pretender back with luck, anyway. And in my games, AI-pretenders tend to stay dead, so I can't confirm his experience.

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Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer
If you think mages just shrugging and ignoring their scripts is bad, wait until one of your armies suddenly decides ten dudes with spears are dangerous enough to be flattened with 100+ gems.

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