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I just checked the website. While reprinting core books would violate the artisan's delicate sensibilities, you could buy Burning Wheel t-shirts and hoodies if you love him enough to check in during the ten days the KS was running. Seriously, gently caress Luke Crane. There's a reason his best stuff involves other people.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:08
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I never got his hate for pdfs. I mean, even if people pirate, you're making more money from those who buy it than if you offer nothing. If you fear a drop in physical book sales, physical books are considered a luxury item nowadays, anyway: the same people would buy it regardless. Burning Empires any good? Since it's licensed, he offers a pdf.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:23
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If you'd been on the ball, you'd have one of these like me  FWIW, I also have Magic Burner #5. I've never actually *played* BW, as much as I want to. He really should sell pdfs of the older books though, not sure why he wants to limit his market that way at this point.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:24
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Covok posted:Burning Empires any good? Since it's licensed, he offers a pdf. There's a review in F&F. Basically, if you like "space feudalism with mind-control aliens", then maybe.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:25
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shoplifter posted:not sure why he wants to limit his market that way at this point. This is an inference, but, according to wikipedia, he put up a burning wheel pdf and sold 10 copies before taking it down because someone illegally uploaded the document. So, I think he fears piracy. Thing is that you still make more money off all the people willing to buy the pdf than literally not having any means to purchase the item. inklesspen posted:There's a review in F&F. Basically, if you like "space feudalism with mind-control aliens", then maybe. Creepy kind of mind control or space horror kind?
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Nov 18, 2015 20:28
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I do think it's pretty lovely that it took all of ten people (or thereabouts) to upload it somewhere. Not to justify piracy, but even with the piracy the product is still for sale and the ol' "piracy might bring you future sales" argument still applies.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:31
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Piracy is lovely, but, from a business standpoint, it's still worth it to sell it as a pdf. This is especially so since selling pdfs can't really cost a lot on his end per unit. Maybe I'm bias because I want the product, but fearing piracy so much you won't sell a product in any form is annoying to an interested consumer. inklesspen posted:I have no idea how to get popularity numbers on Torchbearer. There's frequent enough chatter on the g+ group, but the "Torchbearer in NYC" g+ group is dead as nail in door. The lack of support probably didn't help. There hasn't really been anything official to keep people interested. Lack of new, shiny books = people beginning to look elsewhere.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:35
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Covok posted:Creepy kind of mind control or space horror kind? "Alien worm that crawls into your skull and puppets you, and also your own personality is dead now" kind Covok posted:The lack of support probably didn't help. There hasn't really been anything official to keep people interested. Lack of new, shiny books = people beginning to look elsewhere. There's been a variety of PDF updates, though, including playtest material to take the core classes up to level 10, some small bestiaries, and an Aliens-themed reskin. Jared Sorenson has also produced two books of new classes (with a few monsters) for sale. This is way more support than Mouse Guard or Burning Wheel ever got. inklesspen fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 21:25
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There's actually pdf versions of Blossoms Are Falling and the Arabian themed setting (I forget the name of the book) floating around and definitely findable, but they're  .As for Burning Empires, I like its combat rules way, way better than Burning Wheel's. Otherwise it's basically just a Sci-Fi reskin of Burning Wheel with a very strongly built-in setting and some new campaign flow mechanics.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:56
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The Arabian Setting is called Burning Sands: Jihad. How does it redo the combat rules from Burning Wheel? Also, is it a good idea to give a magic item that raises the users might by 1. Seems like a cool way to establish this as taking the adventurer to the next level. inklesspen posted:"Alien worm that crawls into your skull and puppets you, and also your own personality is dead now" kind I suppose that is a lot more support than other titles by Luke Crane. Wonder if that's because of Thor. Brief aside, I want a game of this happen, but man do I not want to run another game.
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Nov 19, 2015 03:52
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Covok posted:How does it redo the combat rules from Burning Wheel? Burning Wheel's ranged combat rules (Range and Cover) are awful, and its melee combat rules (Fight!) are great for duels but utterly confusing for everyone involved when you have multiple characters all engaging the same target. Burning Empires's Firefight rules sticks with the grouped setup of Range and Cover, but provide real rules for doing things like taking cover, disrupting the enemy's position, laying down suppressing fire, taking and holding objectives, etc. Firefight doesn't work as a total replacement for Burning Wheel's combat system in a non-modern+ setting because the melee combat rules are shortened to just a single action type, but in an overwhelmingly ranged combat setting they just feel and play vastly better than BW's system.
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Nov 19, 2015 04:18
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Zurai posted:Burning Wheel's ranged combat rules (Range and Cover) are awful, and its melee combat rules (Fight!) are great for duels but utterly confusing for everyone involved when you have multiple characters all engaging the same target. Burning Empires's Firefight rules sticks with the grouped setup of Range and Cover, but provide real rules for doing things like taking cover, disrupting the enemy's position, laying down suppressing fire, taking and holding objectives, etc. Firefight doesn't work as a total replacement for Burning Wheel's combat system in a non-modern+ setting because the melee combat rules are shortened to just a single action type, but in an overwhelmingly ranged combat setting they just feel and play vastly better than BW's system. So it plays a little better than Burning Wheel and is a complete in one purchase game? And is available on the BW webshop? Might pick it up. Also, where are the rules for waging War in Torchbearer? I don't just ask in general, I also ask because I figured out a level 10 Elven Ranger using Grief can wage war on an Elder God which is pretty awesome. Edit: Like, I get it's just another conflict, but is there any additional rules?
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Nov 19, 2015 05:19
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Mostly different conflicts just get different weapon types. Like, a "negotiation" conflict would have "weapons" for offering bribes, cracking jokes, etc. And "trapping" uses "clever stratagem", "lures", "nets". So waging war would probably have weapons related to things you can do with an army. Which I don't think has actually been written up by Luke or Thor yet. According to a post on g+ I just found, Luke has said to consider waging war to be "an easter egg". 
inklesspen fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 05:29
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Covok posted:The Arabian Setting is called Burning Sands: Jihad. Jihad is actually not an Arabian setting per se, but a riff on Dune (like, life-extending Salt instead of Spice, and so on) that makes the crypto-Islamic elements from Herbert more explicit (Mahdi rather than Muad'dib and so forth). It's a fairly small supplement and in hindsight it's really a prototype for Burning Empires since I think all the new concepts but the Salt rules are in BE in more developed versions. It is an interesting book if you're a fan of Dune and/or BW but from a utility standpoint it's pretty skippable. Blossoms are Falling, on the other hand, is a much more complete "alternate BW" (unlike BE, you still need the core for combat and other load-bearing systems, but it has its own lifepaths, magic system, and other setting-replacement stuff) and is actually fairly unique for Japan-set RPGs in that it takes place in the peaceful, foppish and ridiculously baroque Heian period. I was won over when I saw the rules for obliquely insulting people during poetry slams. Parkreiner fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 05:41
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inklesspen posted:Mostly different conflicts just get different weapon types. Like, a "negotiation" conflict would have "weapons" for offering bribes, cracking jokes, etc. And "trapping" uses "clever stratagem", "lures", "nets". So waging war would probably have weapons related to things you can do with an army. Which I don't think has actually been written up by Luke or Thor yet. According to a post on g+ I just found, Luke has said to consider waging war to be "an easter egg". Translation: "I don't actually feel like writing rules for waging wars so I'll let people think I did and claim they just never found it." Parkreiner posted:Jihad is actually not an Arabian setting per se, but a riff on Dune (like, life-extending Salt instead of Spice, and so on) that makes the crypto-Islamic elements from Herbert more explicit (Mahdi rather than Muad'dib and so forth). It's a fairly small supplement and in hindsight it's really a prototype for Burning Empires since I think all the new concepts but the Salt rules are in BE in more developed versions. It is an interesting book if you're a fan of Dune and/or BW but from a utility standpoint it's pretty skippable. I never read Dune, only saw the movie. Never knew it had crypto-Islamic elements.
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Nov 19, 2015 05:47
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Parkreiner posted:Blossoms are Falling, on the other hand, is a much more complete "alternate BW" (unlike BE, you still need the core for combat and other load-bearing systems, but it has its own lifepaths, magic system, and other setting-replacement stuff) and is actually fairly unique for Japan-set RPGs in that it takes place in the peaceful, foppish and ridiculously baroque Heian period. I was won over when I saw the rules for obliquely insulting people during poetry slams. Yeah, I actually really like Blossoms are Falling. It's got a lot of neat rules and it's nice to have a non-Sengoku Japan setting.
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Nov 19, 2015 06:44
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Covok posted:I never read Dune, only saw the movie. Never knew it had crypto-Islamic elements. Yeah, I wouldn't even really call the crypto, it's just based heavily on Islam. The Fremen are pretty much explicitly descended from Muslim colonists and the book is clearly heavily influenced by Lawrence of Arabia and most of the plot of the "good" Dune books is rooted in a sort of Science Fantasy war of religions.
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Nov 19, 2015 07:44
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I suppose that explains that veils all the women were wearing in the movie, but I don't ever remember religion really getting brought up. There was some prophecy stuff, but the film's villains were just overly corporate/factory guys. I guess the film must have ignored those details. Also, the movie sucked. Like, hard. Getting back to Torchbearer, my friend and I were chatting about it and are kind of surprised no one has ever really made like one of those "mega dungeons" for it. It seems like a good fit since its mechanics encourage how your supposed to run in one of those dungeons. If you guys don't know what I mean by Mega Dungeon, think Person 3, if you played it, or, just in general, a super long dungeon. Also, I feel like Darkest Dungeons and Dark Souls work really with this system.
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Nov 19, 2015 16:53
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Zurai posted:Yeah, I actually really like Blossoms are Falling. It's got a lot of neat rules and it's nice to have a non-Sengoku Japan setting. It's also worth noting that Blossoms explicitly notes that the courtly and/or proto-bushido versions of "honor" are something you need to buy into or have been indoctrinated in (in the form of taking an appropriate Trait and Beliefs) instead of something every PC automatically adheres to. El Estrago Bonito posted:Yeah, I wouldn't even really call the crypto, it's just based heavily on Islam. The Fremen are pretty much explicitly descended from Muslim colonists and the book is clearly heavily influenced by Lawrence of Arabia and most of the plot of the "good" Dune books is rooted in a sort of Science Fantasy war of religions. Yeah, BW Jihad is basically set between the first two books as the not-Fremen bring the universe under the rule of not-Paul. This is where the "humans-vs-worms war with discrete phases" part of BE got prototyped out. I like the David Lynch movie as a David Lynch movie, but it does leave out a lot of what I found interesting about the book, yeah. Dune the movie is basically a hero's journey, whereas the book is about examining the hero's journey as a form of propaganda. Mind, everyone says the series goes off the rails after the first book, and I still haven't read past that... Parkreiner fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 16:55
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Covok posted:Getting back to Torchbearer, my friend and I were chatting about it and are kind of surprised no one has ever really made like one of those "mega dungeons" for it. It seems like a good fit since its mechanics encourage how your supposed to run in one of those dungeons. If you guys don't know what I mean by Mega Dungeon, think Person 3, if you played it, or, just in general, a super long dungeon. Basically you want a really big dungeon with different areas that have different threats, and the possibility of some safe town-ish places the PCs can retreat to, right? Except in Torchbearer "town" is considered to be a multi-day researching and carousing affair. So you'd need to have rules for someplace safer than a camp, but less frivolous than "town".
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Nov 19, 2015 17:28
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In my Torchbearer campaign I used Stonehell (a OSR megadungeon) as part of it. I just used the town rules as written when the PCs were visiting the kobold town in the dungeon with a few adaptations like replacing out the list of purchasable items with a bunch of weird junk and extra maps and stuff like that,.
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Nov 20, 2015 00:09
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inklesspen posted:Basically you want a really big dungeon with different areas that have different threats, and the possibility of some safe town-ish places the PCs can retreat to, right? Except in Torchbearer "town" is considered to be a multi-day researching and carousing affair. So you'd need to have rules for someplace safer than a camp, but less frivolous than "town".
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Nov 20, 2015 15:50
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There aren't any rules for "a coaching inn in the middle of nowhere" but I would be inclined to run it as a Typical Civilized Camp (which would mean coming up with some event tables).
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Nov 20, 2015 16:23
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Apologies if I am just missing the obvious, but how do PCs advance Might with levels? Pg 13 says you can, but the Levels chapter doesn't appear to mention it.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:38
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some loving LIAR posted:Apologies if I am just missing the obvious, but how do PCs advance Might with levels? Pg 13 says you can, but the Levels chapter doesn't appear to mention it. It only seems to appear in the playtest material for levels 6-10 on the torchbearer website. It was a planned thing, but sticking to levels 1-5 kept it out of the book. So, you didn't miss anything, they just kept that line in for their planned level 6-10 book. If you're curious, it doesn't happen to every class and usually only happens around levels 9-10. It never naturally passes 4, but Elven Rangers can get it to 5 if they act in grief.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:00
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Covok posted:It only seems to appear in the playtest material for levels 6-10 on the torchbearer website. It was a planned thing, but sticking to levels 1-5 kept it out of the book. So, you didn't miss anything, they just kept that line in for their planned level 6-10 book. Thanks. I don't have anything in particular in mind to do with this knowledge; I just wondered how big the biggest hypothetical final fight could get, mightwise. It's a neat mechanic, and I like how it flavors Mouse Guard.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:15
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some loving LIAR posted:Thanks. I don't have anything in particular in mind to do with this knowledge; I just wondered how big the biggest hypothetical final fight could get, mightwise. It's a neat mechanic, and I like how it flavors Mouse Guard. I actually thought similar recently. The biggest mightwise battle is a lvl 10 Elven Ranger fighting Hastur (Elder Gods, in general) in grief with an army (Might 5, Allowed to wage war with up to 3 might higher, if you have an army).
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Nov 21, 2015 01:21
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Splicer posted:I've been meaning to ask about this, what does a crappy village or a random inn count as? A super safe camp? To me "town" seems more about the time you spend there than how big it is really if you're just spending the night treat it as camp if you're settling down for a week or so it's town
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Nov 21, 2015 06:51
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Will someone please run this on the forums?
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Nov 21, 2015 07:53
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Elfgames posted:To me "town" seems more about the time you spend there than how big it is really if you're just spending the night treat it as camp if you're settling down for a week or so it's town Someone on the g+ threat I started has suggested that if you're paying cash instead of using skills to get what you need in the camp, it's not a camp; it's town. Zurui posted:Will someone please run this on the forums? The thing is, there's SO MUCH back-and-forth, i don't see how you can run it without realtime communications.
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Nov 21, 2015 14:42
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inklesspen posted:The thing is, there's SO MUCH back-and-forth, i don't see how you can run it without realtime communications. Hrm. I get it, but I feel like this is a surmountable problem. You might have to hack it a bit.
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Nov 21, 2015 18:09
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While this has been going on for a while, Luke Crane is reprinting the Adventure Burner, Magic Burner, and Monster Burner as one book: the Burning Wheel Codex. It's on its last 70 hours. Also, how well would Burning Wheel work for a game where the players are a bunch of older elves serving as ambassadors to the first ever human society in the world, very much in progress?
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Feb 3, 2016 01:44
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Covok posted:While this has been going on for a while, Luke Crane is reprinting the Adventure Burner, Magic Burner, and Monster Burner as one book: the Burning Wheel Codex. It's on its last 70 hours. Sounds great. You can make 'em grieve and cry as generations of their human friends die and their perfect Numenorean society grows increasingly decadent. A man who, a mere 50 years ago, was their friend and ally now spits in their face from his deathbed. "You will never understand us," he says.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:57
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Grim, but kind of par for the course. So, Burning Wheel would be a good fit for this more political/emotional game which, most likely, wouldn't have a lot of combat? I've never run it/played it before. I am watching Adam Koebel's playthrough of it which is a political game as well, but he's still in chargen.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:00
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Covok posted:Grim, but kind of par for the course. Yep. BW is pretty well suited to that kind of game. I've been running a BW campaign for over a year now and the players have yet to get into any actual combat (not through lack of trying on my part). In fact, we just got our first wound last session from a failed Summoning check.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:19
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Well, that should be a good fit then. If anyone is interested, the recruiting post is up.
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Feb 3, 2016 15:39
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So, I assume the Roden are rat people and I know what a Troll is, but Great Wolves? Are those literally wolves? They are going to be in the Burning Wheel Codex and, considering that isn't being said to be a new admission like Dark Elves, was in one of the old Burners, presumably.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:41
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Covok posted:Well, that should be a good fit then. If anyone is interested, the recruiting post is up. Covok, you closed the thread before I could say I was interested  Is 3 players enough or no?
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Feb 5, 2016 22:04
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Covok posted:So, I assume the Roden are rat people and I know what a Troll is, but Great Wolves? Are those literally wolves? They are going to be in the Burning Wheel Codex and, considering that isn't being said to be a new admission like Dark Elves, was in one of the old Burners, presumably. They were in the Monster Burner (along with Roden, Trolls, and Great Spiders which it seems didn't make the cut for the Codex) and yes, they're large intelligent wolves. They have three main routes: pack wolves, Black Legion wolves (think Lord of the Rings wargs), and ghost hunters. At least, that's what they had in the Monster Burner, we'll see how it gets translated to Burning Wheel Gold.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:09
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Shirec posted:Covok, you closed the thread before I could say I was interested Sorry about that. I was getting the vibe no one was going to throw interest in. As for 3 players, yes that would be enough. However, at the risk of introducing drama into this thread, I was going to reject one of those recruits. So, we would still need one more. Once again, sorry about that. Zurai posted:They were in the Monster Burner (along with Roden, Trolls, and Great Spiders which it seems didn't make the cut for the Codex) and yes, they're large intelligent wolves. They have three main routes: pack wolves, Black Legion wolves (think Lord of the Rings wargs), and ghost hunters. At least, that's what they had in the Monster Burner, we'll see how it gets translated to Burning Wheel Gold. Oh, well alright then. A bit disappointing that the giant spiders didn't make it in.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:09
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