|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:In the very first Fantastic Four origin comic, Johnny Storm screams out in horror, "You've turned into monsters... both of you!! It's the rays!! Those terrible cosmic rays!", as his own body starts to spontaneously combust. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSMg_GWiBt0
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 07:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 20:51 |
|
|
BetterToRuleInHell posted:Did anyone else like this movie besides me? I didn't hate this movie, but I definitely felt that the ending went to poo poo. I thought maybe they were going to focus on how Ben now just being a rock for the military to throw at their enemies was affecting him but no time for that because DOOOOOOM. Kate's new hairstyle threw me for a loop and so coming here I am glad to see that I wasn't just tripping out and it actually was an obvious hairpiece. I didn't understand why the boys left Sue out of the club and found it hilarious that all of these high-minded scientists just wanted to touch every loving thing instead of just planting the flag and going home for their  middle finger to the authority.Those were the only things that really bothered me so all-in-all the movie wasn't terrible but I thought it would have been something a little more. Also I hope I wasn't the only one hoping that the new complex they were asking for was going to be Four Freedoms Plaza, right?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 07:33
|
|
|
Black Lighter posted:Fair points, but I'm specifically talking about instances where a studio takes the film away from the director and re-edits/reshoots the film without their cooperation or consent. It seems like that almost always raises more problems with the film itself than it solves, at a higher cost and at a risk of extremely bad buzz. I think most times it's that they feel they'll make zero dollars and just want to boost it to disappointing dollars. That said, I know WarGames was interfered into success and I think Dredd was taken away from the director and most people like the results.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 07:39
|
|
|
that is my favourite Norm Macdonald thing ever
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 12:14
|
|
|
What is the green goo? As a professional scientist, why did Dr Doom touch the alien life form? How does a man survive his suit being melted into him? Why doesn't the Thing wear pants?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 14:31
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Think he had a teeny bit more clout than this guy after The Terminator and Aliens and T2... Fox hired Trank to take on F4 because of Chronicle's success. He should have become a total dick with a huge ego at that point. Wandle Cax posted:Gee that would be a greeeat strategy for a director trying to make it in Hollywood on his first major picture. I feel like it would have been better if he just left the project than be bullied by studio execs. Instead he stayed on and made an even dumber career move afterward on twitter. He needed bigger balls basically.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
Surlaw posted:As a professional scientist, why did Dr Doom touch the alien life form? He's an engineer/programmer, not a field biologist. None of those guys were field researchers and two of them weren't even scientists of any sort. Actually Johnny and Ben seemed more grounded outdoorsy types, they should have stepped in and told the 'scientists' to quit their dumb monkey shines. "Oh hey Reed I've got your back I'm your bro" /lets him abseil down a giant cliff on a toxic alien planet even though he was probably totally lovely at climbing ropes in gym class The reason they didn't take Sue along is that there's no loving way she would have let any of that poo poo go down. The writers probably wracked their brains for days trying to think of a good reason that she couldn't take part in the mission before someone went "Maybe they just forget to ask her?" and then they moved on. teagone posted:Fox hired Trank to take on F4 because of Chronicle's success. He should have become a total dick with a huge ego at that point. I still can't understand that. Chronicle was great in itself but it was a miserable depressing look at how super powers can actually gently caress up a person and lead to horrible consequences, what part of that screams "Perfect guy to adapt a cheery, wacky 60s comicbook" to anyone?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 14:50
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:I still can't understand that. Chronicle was great in itself but it was a miserable depressing look at how super powers can actually gently caress up a person and lead to horrible consequences, what part of that screams "Perfect guy to adapt a cheery, wacky 60s comicbook" to anyone? The 2 initial adaptations were cherry, wacky, and campy and they both were terrible too. It's clear they wanted to go a different direction and somehow Trank fit that more grounded vision of F4.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 14:55
|
|
|
20th Century Fox announced the reboot in 2009 but Trank wasn't announced as director until 2012, I wonder how many other potential directors went "Nope, ain't going anywhere near that trainwreck!" before they found someone who was willing to give it a shot. Chronicle was huge in 2012, it was made on a budget of $12m and pulled in over $120m worldwide. I guess it's no wonder they were willing to take a gamble on him. Black Lighter posted:Titanic made 20-30M a weekend for like two months and still stayed #1 for 2 months after that. It was a set of legs we haven't seen since with the sole exception of Avatar. Justin Godscock posted:More like 4 months; noted classic Lost In Space was the movie that finally bumped it out of the #1 spot in April. It was a combination of well-liked movie, hype and weak competition that we might never see again. For comparison, Fant4stic was #1 at the box office for exactly one day. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 15:22
|
|
|
Surlaw posted:What is the green goo? As a professional scientist, why did Dr Doom touch the alien life form? How does a man survive his suit being melted into him? Why doesn't the Thing wear pants? As a Prometheus remake, this movie is mainly disappointing in that they didn't get Michael Fassbender to play a "reimagined" H.E.R.B.I.E., just floating around, sabotaging the negative-zone mission like a smug monkey's paw.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 15:56
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:I still can't understand that. Chronicle was great in itself but it was a miserable depressing look at how super powers can actually gently caress up a person and lead to horrible consequences, what part of that screams "Perfect guy to adapt a cheery, wacky 60s comicbook" to anyone? Try actually reading the Fantastic Four comic books from the 60s and discounting the dated retro styles - I'm curious to see if they remain particularly "wacky" or "cheerful" to you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 16:08
|
|
|
Shanty posted:As a Prometheus remake, this movie is mainly disappointing in that they didn't get Michael Fassbender to play a "reimagined" H.E.R.B.I.E., just floating around, sabotaging the negative-zone mission like a smug monkey's paw. I wish they'd kept the original ending with Sue going off on a wacky adventure with Doom's head.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 16:13
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Try actually reading the Fantastic Four comic books from the 60s and discounting the dated retro styles - I'm curious to see if they remain particularly "wacky" or "cheerful" to you. Like the part in #1 where Mr Fantastic summons the other three by firing a flare gun that spells out "THE FANTASTIC FOUR!" (including exclamation mark) in the sky? I thought that bit was particularly downbeat and grounded
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 16:41
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The 'family values' stuff is a hastily-imposed illusion designed to disguise and repress their collective monstrosity. We can call ourselves a family and pretend there's nothing wrong. This feels a little obvious for you. Everybody already knows that Fantastic Four is about being a family.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
teagone posted:The 2 initial adaptations were cherry, wacky, and campy and they both were terrible too. It's clear they wanted to go a different direction and somehow Trank fit that more grounded vision of F4. Yeah, they mystery is why they hired the guy to make that kind of movie, based on his track record of making that kind of movie, only to flip out when he started to make that kind of movie. It's like hiring HR Geiger as your art director only to discover to your SHOCK that everything is bio-mechanical penis-vaginas all the way down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 16:58
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Yeah, they mystery is why they hired the guy to make that kind of movie, based on his track record of making that kind of movie, only to flip out when he started to make that kind of movie. It's like hiring HR Geiger as your art director only to discover to your SHOCK that everything is bio-mechanical penis-vaginas all the way down. Fox is dumb, but it turned out that Trank was actually dumber for staying onboard and putting up with Fox's stupidness.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 17:03
|
|
|
teagone posted:Fox is dumb, but it turned out that Trank was actually dumber for staying onboard and putting up with Fox's stupidness. A job's a job, man.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 17:10
|
|
|
Drifter posted:A job's a job, man. Pffttt, what a sellout.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 17:17
|
|
|
Drifter posted:A job's a job, man. One job isn't worth it if it destroys your career from then on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 17:47
|
|
|
ghostwritingduck posted:One job isn't worth it if it destroys your career from then on. Well his career probably wasn't destroyed until he started badmouthing the film before opening weekend.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:I still can't understand that. Chronicle was great in itself but it was a miserable depressing look at how super powers can actually gently caress up a person and lead to horrible consequences, what part of that screams "Perfect guy to adapt a cheery, wacky 60s comicbook" to anyone? It seems to me you just make the Fantastic 4 be Chronicle 2 but with 5 people this time and then the villain is doctor doom who got some kind of injury that makes him the villain and not a member of the fantastic 4. You don't even need to change a great deal to not have it be horribly depressing. You'd probably need to change very little really
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:This feels a little obvious for you. Everybody already knows that Fantastic Four is about being a family. When fans say that Fantastic 4 is 'about being a family', they mean that in the sense of The Incredibles, where it's literally a nuclear family and they gotta work together, have family adventures, etc. Husband, wife, two kids. It's less horror than in even The Munsters. The actual Fantastic 4 is about a woman, her husband, her brother, and her husband's friend. They're all adults with little in common except that they've been in a horrible accident. They're not a family. They're a social microcosm. The basic theme, from the very first comic, was that science was supposed to bring us all together and unify us - but that didn't happen. Scientific progress only exacerbates existing social problems. The lower-class Ben is at Reed's throat, Johnny's exhilaration is a mask for his terror and anxiety, and Sue is no better off than she was before. It's a harsh criticism of 'the singularity' from before that was a really a widespread concept. So Reed, out of desperation, retreats into tradition - reshaping society along familial lines. Rather than dealing with the underlying issues he's exposed, he declares himself the 'father' of the group. And the adult veteran Ben is his... child? "Modern science follows its path (in microbiology, in manipulating genes, in particle physics) heedless of cost - satisfaction is here provided by knowledge itself, not by any moral or communal goals scientific knowledge is supposed to serve. All the "ethical committees" which abound today and attempt to establish rules for the proper conduct of gene-manipulation, of medical experiments, etc. - are they ultimately not desperate attempts to reinscribe this inexorable drive-progress of science which knows of no inherent limitation (in short: this inherent ethic of the scientific attitude) within the confines of human goals, to provide it with a "human face," a limitation? The commonplace wisdom today is that "our extraordinary power to manipulate nature through scientific devices has run ahead of our faculty to lead a meaningful existence, to make human use of this immense power." Thus, the properly modern ethics of "following the drive" clashes with traditional ethics whereby one is instructed to live one's life according to standards of proper measure and to subordinate all its aspects to some all-encompassing notion of the Good. The problem is, of course, that no balance between these two notions of ethics can ever be achieved. The notion of reinscribing scientific drive into the constraints of the life-world is fantasy at its purest - perhaps the fundamental fascist fantasy. Any limitation of this kind is utterly foreign to the inherent logic of science - science belongs to the real and, as a mode of the real of jouissance, it is indifferent to the modalities of its symbolization, to the way it will affect social life." -Zizek Take away the cosmic horror, and you eliminate the fundamental conflict between the blind drive of scientific progress and the tenuous illusion of social stability.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:20
|
|
|
teagone posted:Fox is dumb, but it turned out that Trank was actually dumber for staying onboard and putting up with Fox's stupidness. Once you're entrenched in the project, quitting is probably just as bad for your career as making a lovely movie that tanks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:38
|
|
|
teagone posted:Fox is dumb, but it turned out that Trank was actually dumber for staying onboard and putting up with Fox's stupidness. Fox actually tried to get rid of Trank, except nobody wanted to work on this shitpile so they were stuck with him
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:Once you're entrenched in the project, quitting is probably just as bad for your career as making a lovely movie that tanks. I'm not saying there wouldn't be repercussions if he left the project after everything had been shot. It still would be a bad move, but whining like a bitch online and blaming the studio for the movie being poo poo is worse for his career and reputation imo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:55
|
|
|
teagone posted:I'm not saying there wouldn't be repercussions if he left the project after everything had been shot. It still would be a bad move, but whining like a bitch online and blaming the studio for the movie being poo poo is worse for his career and reputation imo. Well of course there was always the option to stay on the project and not be a whiny bitch online. Plenty of directors have survived bombs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:02
|
|
|
There's a piece in the hollywood reporter that has some more details on this. The whole thing is worth a read, but I loved this part in particular:quote:In Trank's case, multiple sources associated with the project say the director did not produce material that would have opened the way to a salvageable film. And by several accounts, he resisted help. "He holed up in a tent and cut himself off from everybody," says one high-level source. Literally, there was a tent on the Louisiana set. "He built a black tent around his monitor," says a crewmember. "He was extremely withdrawn." Between setups, this person adds, "he would go to his trailer and he wouldn't interact with anybody."
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Well of course there was always the option to stay on the project and not be a whiny bitch online. Plenty of directors have survived bombs. That clearly wasn't an option for Trank. How could it have been if the rumors were true that Fox locked him out of the editing bay? [edit] ^^^ Wow, Trank sounds like he's an asshat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:26
|
|
|
Mash posted:I'll have you know that was Tim Heidecker, the more 'Richards' of the two. This is actually an On Cinema inside joke. Back in February Tim tweeted at Josh Trank to see if he could get a bit part for F4, because he was insanely jealous of Gregg's ant-man cameo. edit: https://twitter.com/timheidecker/status/570023642266017792 Doctor Nick fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Aug 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
Nerds are really easily manipulated. Note the phrasing in the article: Trank "pushed a gloomy tone on young stars". Like he's corrupting innocent children.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:38
|
|
|
Their performances are also fine, especially Reed's, until the finale when the writing style just abruptly changes. Reed isn't a lovable guy, but that wasn't because of any creative failure, Teller did a good job playing him this way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:42
|
|
|
This whole thing makes me wonder how guys like Gilliam and Fincher would have handled their own studio issues if they had happened during the era of social media. I can understand the desire to make sure your side of the story gets out there, especially when the studio is putting all this crap out in the press that makes you sound like a goof. But history has shown us that the real story will come to light eventually. People now recognize Gilliam's version of Brazil as a masterpiece, and the craziness that was Alien 3's production has been well documented. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Aug 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:49
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nerds are really easily manipulated. Note the phrasing in the article: Trank "pushed a gloomy tone on young stars". Like he's corrupting innocent children. But SuperMechagodzilla, you are the nerd!
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:14
|
|
|
Nerdism is a specific ideology.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:21
|
|
|
I think Fantastic Four isn't really possible to do with the limited property rights that FOX has. There isn't a ton of overlap between X-Men and Fantastic Four, and the tone of the two movies are completely conflicting (America hates mutants but loves the Fantastic Four?). The Fantastic Four have one very good villain who isn't a cosmic entity: Dr. Doom. However Doom is too complex and too good to be a half-movie villain, which is what you get when you also try to tell an origin story in the same movie. In order to make him work, you have to treat him like Marvel treated Loki. Introduce him in the first movie and have him come back in a team up movie where the stakes are even higher. That doesn't really work when you only have the rights to FF/X-Men. At this point, the best you can hope for is that Marvel realizes that life after Robert Downey Jr., Chris Hemsworth and Chris Evans leave doesn't look very good. They're going to push out a bunch of movies that are far riskier than what they have been doing at the same time that DC will be ramping up their sequels to popular characters like the Flash, Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman. You have to think that Marvel might try to buy back FF from FOX (it won't relapse) and use them as a launching pad for Phase 4.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
Doctor Nick posted:This is actually an On Cinema inside joke. Back in February Tim tweeted at Josh Trank to see if he could get a bit part for F4, because he was insanely jealous of Gregg's ant-man cameo. If there's one good thing about this movie's performance, I can't wait to see Tim get into that reflexively angry defensive mode when it inevitably comes up in the next season of On Cinema. Slowpoke! posted:I think Fantastic Four isn't really possible to do with the limited property rights that FOX has. There isn't a ton of overlap between X-Men and Fantastic Four, and the tone of the two movies are completely conflicting (America hates mutants but loves the Fantastic Four?). I mean, there's no reason that they have to combine their cinema properties, which they in fact went out of their way to say they didn't (besides the fact there's no overlap at all in the movies). Just look at Days of Future Past - the comic itself has Reed and Sue's son as one of the resistance people in the future timeline, which would have been a logical way to set up some interplay between the movies, but who as far as I can tell wasn't in any version of the movie development. And then there's Simon Kinberg saying that the FF and X-Men movies are absolutely in separate universes. I think a much bigger problem for Fox's limited property rights would be if they actually do make the next Wolverine movie be an adaptation of Old Man Logan because there's really no way to do that without the wider Avengers characters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:Yeah next time you feel like a sci-fi story is trying too hard to give its planet a cool name, remember that all but one planet in our own solar system is named after a dead god of an ancient empire. but those names are cool and good?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:54
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:I think a much bigger problem for Fox's limited property rights would be if they actually do make the next Wolverine movie be an adaptation of Old Man Logan because there's really no way to do that without the wider Avengers characters. An Old Man Logan film in that case will sort of probably be like First Class, Age of Ultron, even DOFP, etc. where the title and the main concept are all they keep and massively change a lot of the story to make an original film. Wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't something like them just using some Mad Max sort of plot and having him protecting a very young Rachel or Nathan Summers or something in the wastelands/wilderness or something from the Brood or something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nerdism is a specific ideology. Nerds are a) in school and not as social as 'normal' students or b) adults basing their identity on having been formerly a? Or you could explain what you mean if I've messed up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 23:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 20:51 |
|
|
Doctor Nick posted:There's a piece in the hollywood reporter that has some more details on this. The whole thing is worth a read, but I loved this part in particular: I get the impression that Fox has come to terms with FF being a bomb so now they will ride the drama surrounding the production as hard as they can. I expect reports of Trank having Britney Spears-levels of meltdowns coming in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 23:13
|
|
