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Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Decided to go back to the rtm build as the latest fast-ring builds were just giving me too much odd behavior, especially with sporadic notifications.

I realize they removed Start Menu syncing and automatic app installation from Win8, which makes (relative) sense if you have different form factor PC's and have optimized the layout for each (a syncing option would be preferred through). But is there really no backup of your SM so you can restore your settings/layout when re-installing any longer?

With Win8, when I freshly installed and logged in during setup with my MS account, I would get an option to restore my config from the last synced copy with a timestamp - I never got this during the re-install. A quirk/bug, or are your settings/layout not backed up in addition to not being synced?

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Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

With Win8, when I freshly installed and logged in during setup with my MS account, I would get an option to restore my config from the last synced copy with a timestamp - I never got this during the re-install. A quirk/bug, or are your settings/layout not backed up in addition to not being synced?
Yup, apparently no backup of the SM config of any kind. Dumb, dumb.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Goddamn the sporadic behavior of notifications is becoming obnoxious - this has been seen in the betas, on the rtm, the last two preview builds, and finally a clean re-install of the RTM. I'll see no notifications, then fire up the mail app - oh look, 3 new messages in the past 2 hours. :argh:

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

redeyes posted:

The windows 10 email app while looking and functioning well is loving useless. It simply cannot consistently download and notify me of messages. Unreal. How loving hard is this Microsoft?! HUH?!
I've always had a problem with Outlook and push email - across Win8.1 with the older mail app, Outlook 2013, and now W10 + the universal mail app. Really don't know wtf, it will be immediate and provide notifications for several hours a day or work for several days in a row, then just...stop.

I basically get notified of new emails these days by my iPad's notification bell - and I'm using the Outlook app there. Always notifies, push seems to always work.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Tapedump posted:

That second douche, Dan Rubino, comes off as a straight rear end compared to a semi-douche possibly-sensationalist (but not acutally??) Chris Merriman.
Rubino and Thurrott basically have a daily Douche-Off. Most platform-focused tech sites are awful, but the Windows ones are just :stare:

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Sir Unimaginative posted:

The Start Menu's no more special than any other universal app; it just happens to link to the start button on your desktop/tablet/keyboard.
Yeah, nothing wrong with making your signature interface element as fragile as the rest of your apps based on a new API

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Well holy crap, MS might have figured out that a line of monochromatic icons in the taskbar is going to look like poo poo

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
e:wrong forum

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

WillieWestwood posted:

Anyone have a quick fix for this? Several buttons on my taskbar have stopped working since the latest Win 10 update:
Start Button
Cortana/Search
Network Status
Volume Control
Notifications
Regular clicking is useless, and right-clicking only works on two or three of these five.
By "latest Win10 update", do you mean an insider build from the Fast ring? That sounds like a bug in build 10547:

MS bug notes posted:

Clicking on the system icons in the notification area quickly can result in Windows Shell blocking the launch of fly-outs like Audio, Networking, etc. This can be resolved by rebooting your PC.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

dissss posted:

You'd have to be nuts to run the insider builds on anything but a dedicated test PC

They're being very conservative with the slow ring - it hasn't gotten a forced build since RTM. Fast ring, sure - wouldn't recommend for your main PC.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Factor Mystic posted:

Yeah but if that's actually the situation then it was only ever a matter of time until they clicked next on a convincing pop up and took down the business anyway.

Discussion › Serious Hardware / Software Crap > Windows 10: The business would have gone down anyway

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Don Lapre posted:

Microsoft upset people used the unlimited part of their unlimited data.

Hope you arn't a onedrive user

https://blog.onedrive.com/onedrive_changes/

Serves you right for using a bunch of space when they promised you a bunch of space, scrubs

Really how does MS ever get through the day without accidentally setting their own cubicles on fire

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
They really basically just killed it as a viable consumer offering. From an integration perspective, there was little reason to use it over iCloud or Gdrive for OSX/Android platforms, but the price of Onedrive at least made it a viable option, which was really the only way it could hope to get inroads there. Well that, and the Office 365 deal - but I really wonder how long that will even be a minor pull for consumers, especially with Apple seemingly getting back to regularly improving its iWork suite now and Google committing to update its App offerings.

As bad it looks by itself, this isn't just "MS reneged on their promise" - this is basically a complete gutting of the service, at least with respect to any competitive advantage it may offer. The reduced free offering, the removal of 100/200gb competitive offers - it's as if they really just don't want to compete here anymore.

And hell, even outside of placeholder removal the Onedrive client is still bloody awful. Gdrive is still massively faster in syncing, especially on OSX.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Phoenixan posted:

Looks to me like they're just making it more a part of Office, rather than a stand-alone product.
The best way to entice users to your software suite is to remove an advertised feature that actually gave it worth

quote:

"Office 365 Drive" has a nice ring to it.
wtf

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Also it's cheap.
Not anymore. It's now actually the most expensive option if you need more than 15gb and less than 1tb. Google Drive gives you 100gb for MS's 50, Apple's 50gb is half the monthly price of OD. Not to mention Google Photo storage is free for photos up to 16 mpixels or videos up to 1080p.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Thermopyle posted:

Well, I mean...we just got significant evidence that the data usage of unlimited users is significant.
MS did not quote how many users were actually making up that segment of overzealous uploaders. What they did say was that the 'average' user consumed 5.5 GB. So no, we don't have 'significant' evidence, and we don't know how much of an impact these people were actually having on the service as a whole.

This is irrelevant to them reducing the limits for free users, removing the 15gb camera sync, not offering paid options over 1tb, and excising the 100/200gb options however.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Call Me Charlie posted:

Thanks.


It's missing the ability to send email from an Outlook alias or an email tied to the main Live account. It's missing the ability to update or pop up toast with any sort of regularity. It's missing the ability to properly display the number of unread mail within an account. And it's missing the ability to not be a giant piece of poo poo.

Yes, this. Not to mention the many HTML formatted messages it still cocks up due to relying on Edge. Even with a fresh install of TH2, it also refuses to sync past August 24th for sent messages in my Outlook account.

And when the gently caress will we get mail results mixed back in with search results in general, like every mobile OS, oSX, and Windows versions before 8 can do?

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
I've probably done 5 clean installs of W10 (release and now TH2) across various systems, and jeebus it just seems potluck what you're going to get as compared to Win7/Win8, discounting any hardware issues of course. The Start Menu in particular is just so irredeemably flaky - still.

The latest now - again, a clean install - is that the settings panel doesn't want to return search results.



It was installed last night.

The SM would at first give me individual results, however wouldn't respond to clicks or keyboard controls for the modern settings elements. Searching in the Settings app itself would only return the older-style control panel items

Googling around, some found success with re-setting the indexing options of the Settings panel. This is done by navigating to it in the file system:

C:\%username%\AppData\Local\Packages\windows.immersivecontrolpanel_cw5n1h2txyewy\LocalState

Selecting Properties->Advanced on the LocalState folder, and un-checking "Allow files in this folder to have contents indexed in addition to file properties", hit Apply, then re-check, hit apply.

That at least got the results back (more or less, I still have to be very specific with regards to search terms when on other installs I get more hits) that I can click on:



However, I did that step 3 hours ago. Still showing no results in the panel, as well as still displaying "The results may be incomplete", and yes this is on an SSD.

Anyone else ran into this?

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Zero VGS posted:

Came in here to ask, does anyone know what the gently caress KB3118754 does? It's a new cumulative update for 1511, and changes the build number. I can't seem to find any release notes and the patch didn't explain anything.

...as opposed to every other update? MS just doesn't release patch notes anymore.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Sheep posted:

That's so loving dumb. I have a load of Thinkpads here that cannot upgrade to 10 or clean install with the initial build (it gives a startup error/recovery loop), but the November ISO works fine. Glad I grabbed the MCT with the November update before they pulled it.
There has to be some install issue that they've detected...maybe? It's MS, who knows. Christ this organization is so schizophrenic.

Users should "Get the update from Windows Update" - ah yes, the multi-gigabyte update which is a completely new OS install. So install Windows 10...so you can subsequently install Windows 10 - whenever WU decides to show it to you.

They do a nice thing (albeit should have been from the start) with allowing you to use Win7/Win8 keys during the initial install, then do this.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Don Lapre posted:

You can still activate with a 7/8 key. You would just install 10240 first and not activate till you upgrade to the new one
Don't mean to imply that you can't, just comparing two decisions that are diametrically opposed to aiding the customer in getting a clean install up and running quickly - using your 7/8 key for a clean install was a huge time saver over the previous upgrade method, now we're back to that - just with w10 serving as the upgrade OS before the threshold install.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

ThermoPhysical posted:

Looks like it's a case of Microsoft just...being Microsoft I guess.


This is from the ZDNet article.
"Being Microsoft" in that it explains nothing and simply restates the problem.

"The reason we are not offering the update as a single installable ISO is that we have decided to not offer it that way anymore."

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Anyone else who had notification issues from Mail noticed that it's been working consistently - or it is just me? Since release, first time with about a week of consistent notifications from both my accounts - and timely. I even sometimes get notifications from my desktop before my iPad, which is a first. Holy poo poo.*

Still can't sync sent items longer than a month though from my Outlook account (yes, fetch mail from 'any' time is selected). Never been able to get that working with W10 mail properly. Gmail syncs OK though.

*Edit: Spoke too soon. Notifications still flaky as gently caress

Happy_Misanthrope fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 11, 2015

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Segmentation Fault posted:

I run a small computer repair shop, and honestly? I want people on Windows 10 too. It's gonna make my life so much easier when everyone's on it.
That has little to do with that ridiculous dialog.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

wormil posted:

After last night's update everything was fixed, app store, apps, etc.; then after installing one app it all broke again. I've never been an MS basher and have actually liked their products but I'm very disappointed inW10 and strongly regret accepting the upgrade.
There have been bigger disasters (WinME, Vista) from the start, but I have to agree that I've never seen so much random behavior with an MS OS than Win10. I've still got bizarre settings panel and search behavior, this is a clean install. Again, "create a new profile" is ridiculously commonplace as a solution, it's just so loving fragile.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

dud root posted:

What exactly does the search bar search? I've unticked online/web results. Does it require indexing because I usually clear that out of entries.

Basically I just want it to search my c: drive so I dont have to open a file explorer, then open c:, then click in the top right
From the preview builds to the release, at this point I still don't have a concrete idea. Obviously apps on the Start menu (when it's working), but the results for my local files are wildly inconsistent - sometimes the file I want will be the first hit, but many times I'll get nothing but web search results and have to hit "My Stuff". It seems to operate on a small cached list of recently accessed files and doesn't actually search your entire index until you hit "My Stuff", why I have no idea when Win7 could accomplish that with no delay.

While this may somewhat of a niche problem, the lack of any tooltip when you do get a search hit to show location (like Win7 would do) is obnoxious, as there are instances where I have a file with the same name but have it in different locations (such as using both Google Drive for business and Onedrive for my personal). So in those instances I can't trust that the file I'm opening is the one I want, so I'm basically clicking "My Stuff", waiting a couple of secs for the results, and scrolling down to my local files. I say scrolling down as the first hits are one Onedrive, which if you click that file opens up a browser link. Jesus.

That, and the lack of indexing emails/messaging/appointments, christ searching for your local stuff is such a huge regression from Win7. The bigger thumbnail views and image previews are about the only improvement, but still has nothing on OSX's Quick Look from ~8 years ago which offered nearly instantaneous resizable previews of almost any file on 5400rpm laptop HD's and first gen Core CPU's.

Yeah I care about search

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Gerdalti posted:

I think most of the people who have issues are power users honestly.
Cool the Win8 defense love me some 2014 nostalgia

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Phoenixan posted:

The weirdest thing I've seen with the search in Windows 10 is that I can type part of a file name and find the file, but then if I continue to type the complete file name it goes away from the search results entirely.
Yep, seen this behavior myself as well.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

WattsvilleBlues posted:

I'm on the latest Insider build (11082) and that specific option isn't there, though it still made no difference when I disabled it on older builds. It stopped showing web results but didn't show me local results til I clicked My Stuff. I don't know why they insist on making it so poo poo.
Remember you have to disable Cortana to get that option to show up.

Yes, get the same behavior when I disable it though - it removes the web search results, and replaces it with...white space. You still have to search My Stuff to get hits on most of your files.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

WorkingStiff posted:

Oh come on, enough with the victimization terminology. MS is not raping you. Just use a different OS.

What the gently caress

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

FYI I can just scroll up to read your dumb post, no need to quote yourself

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

GreenNight posted:

That's just an rear end in a top hat thing to say. "Use a different OS". OK yeah let me quit my Windows admin gig and go full linux because I dislike how Microsoft is pushing loving Candy Crush down on each user without me having to gently caress around with the registry.
Excuse me sir there is no need to critique an OS in the OS discussion thread

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

WorkingStiff posted:

Hey, I' m just helping you out since you are uncomfortable with tech. Show me on the doll where Windows 10 touched you.
Whenever someone critiques a product I like I too use comparisons to rape and child molestation as I am also a fundamentally broken human being

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Here’s what Microsoft plans to do with display scaling on Windows 10 Redstone

quote:

In a series buried away in the Insider Hub called “Made by you,” the Windows team goes into great length and detail about how things are going change when it comes to scaling in Windows 10.

"Scaling is a complex problem for the open Windows ecosystem, which has to support devices ranging in size from roughly 4” to 84,” with densities ranging from 50DPI to 500DPI. In Windows 10 we took steps to consolidate and simplify our developer story for scaling and to improve the end-user visual experience. Stay tuned for future release!”

Thanks to some detailed criticism and real-world examples provided by the Windows 10 Insider community, the Windows team can accurately tailor upcoming Windows 10 development to cater to the increasing pixel density wars developers are encountering.

quote:

Perhaps, the most front-facing UI element on any Windows users desktop are the mismatch of icons representing open folders, most used programs, and most accessed content. Examples include the Lync app and desktop icons. Microsoft plans to address this in Redstone.

quote:

Blurry bitmap scaling of content

Another instance in which the Windows team is looking to address, specifically, in Office apps. Even though the UWP (the ones that took forever to release) are fully per-monitor scaled in Windows 10, classic desktop apps are unfortunately still utilizing older Windows “system scaling factors,” resulting in blurry bitmap scaling when docked on a second monitor. Other poorly displayed bitmapping desktop applications include Notepad++, Chrome, and Firefox. The Windows team is working feverishly (well maybe not for Chrome of Firefox’s sake) at improving migration tools for more complex Win32 applications.

Somewhat encouraging, albeit what MS actually ships and considers 'solved' can be a little different from what we hope. Still good to hear the scaling and UI consistency is noted as a concern at least.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Finally got my bizarre search behavior largely ironed out, at least for the time being. Search would only sporadically give results from Settings in the main window, and searching from the new Settings CP directly would only reveal the older control panel entries or often nothing at all. Search would continually complain that it was still indexing, results would be unpredictable, image placeholders would be missing from My Stuff searches, etc.

The 'solution' was just to rebuild the index (which I've already done many times before) but perhaps the latest update finally fixed the underlying issue and the index rebuild was still required to complete the fix. Finally getting consistent results now.

The only possible regression in behavior from before that I can see is that any documents outside of the local Documents/Music/Files etc folders, despite being included in Libraries, don't show up from the main search window and I'm always required to click My Stuff to get results from them. I thought this might be due to redirecting my Onedrive from the standard location inside my User folder to D: to save space on my SSD, but my Google Drive results aren't returned either - and it's under my User folder. I've removed and re-added these folders to the existing Libraries with no change, always required to click My Stuff to get results for local files that don't exist in the standard User folders.

Again though, the results I got before were so random this may have been the intended behavior all along and now it's actually working as designed, it's at least predictable behavior (soon as I save a document insider c:\users\username\documents it's returned in the first search window immediately). Still a bit annoying - does everyone else have to click My Stuff to get file hits from folders outside of the standard local folder within user?

Edit: This is apparently normal behavoir, search results from the primary search window will not show files outside of C:\Users, regardless if they are in a library or not. So if you change the location of Onedrive to another drive, you'll have to click My Stuff to get results (which is dumb).

The reason I wasn't getting Google Drive results even though it's folder was still in C:\Users was because indexing wasn't working on it at all as the SYSTEM user was completely missing from the primary folder. Added it back with full permissions and I'm getting gdrive search results at least.

Happy_Misanthrope fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jan 18, 2016

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Search is hands down my biggest disappointment with Windows 10. It's even worse than Windows 8.1, at least there I could hit Winkey + F to search for files.
Oh yeah, I've ranted about it repeatedly. This at least gives me consistent results now which is an improvement, but that's not saying much. If they can't change this behavior it would at least help a ton to have a specific shortcut to always go immediately to My Stuff, like Winkey+Shift or something.

Not giving back search results for a redirected Onedrive folder is truly bizarre, you're prompting users to save everything in there, giving them 1TB of space with an Office 365 account - chances are they're not going to storing that on their boot SSD if given the choice, but it's still going to be the primary source for their documents so its search results should be prioritized. Not to mention of course no email, contacts or appointment results - hell, there is simply no way to search for appointments even in the Calendar app at all, you need to use a third party cal app to search for appts. Wtf.

BTW, anyone know what the heck this option does?



It's seemingly random which files trigger this appearing. You click it, Cortana thinks from anywhere to 2-5 seconds...



...then returns results from My Stuff. WTF is the point of it?

Happy_Misanthrope fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jan 18, 2016

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
This is quite surprising, considering all the justification simple grayscale rendering got when RGB subpixel was stripped out (performance, doesn't work with rotated screens, doesn't work against coloured backgrounds, etc). Still good they're relenting on this for at least Edge though. While there are of course many issues with Edge, the lack of this was huge on my current display for text legibility.



Edit: Oh, "Cleartype" now means RGB subpixel rendering apparently - what it originally meant, until it was changed to reflect a characteristic of the Surface screen. :)

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Boris Galerkin posted:

I thought ClearType was a system wide thing, why would Edge just disable it?
Modern/Store apps (and Office 365 - well parts of it at least) don't use RGB subpixel rendering cleartype. Edge is a modern app.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

How on earth did they gently caress up something as fundamental as search

They've been loving it up since Win7, it's my single biggest beef

BTW the SM in Win10 only searches stuff within your C:\Users folder, if you have a redirected onedrive folder or any other files/folders outside that indexed you will have to hit "My Stuff" for it to search outside of C:\users

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Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."
Anyone had problems with UWP apps and the SM since the last cumulative update (meaning the one doled out to those not on the insider builds)? I've had about 5 instances of UWP apps/SM not responding that have required reboots to remedy since the update earlier in the week - which is about the same amount as I had to do for ~5 months previous.

On that note, is there a procedure (don't say sfc /scannow) that can remedy the Start Menu not responding aside from a full reboot? I've played around with processes but nothing as simple as with W7 by just restarting explorer.exe that's obvious.

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