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Will you be looking at any of the works directly inspired by these films? Or the ones that just ripped them off?
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Aug 18, 2015 04:27
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Burkion posted:Will you be looking at any of the works directly inspired by these films? Or the ones that just ripped them off? Don't give away my secrets just yet! I will say that Magnificent Seven is on the list.
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Aug 18, 2015 04:30
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jivjov posted:I plan to watch and review, in hybrid-chronological order, every film directed by Akira Kurosawa and Hayao Miyazaki. I'm also going to toss in every other Studio Ghibli film as well, partially to pad out my viewing to avoid Kurosawa-burnout, partially because my wife loves cute, heartwarming films and is upset that I've not watched any of them before. There will also be a small selection of super secret bonus reviews (including a handful of 1970s comic issues) included as well. jivjov posted:cute, heartwarming films Yeah... You should watch out for Grave of the Fireflies. Cause if you walk into that one thinking it'll be a cute kids movie, it will destroy your soul.
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Aug 18, 2015 05:11
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Thundersword238 posted:Yeah... You should watch out for Grave of the Fireflies. Cause if you walk into that one thinking it'll be a cute kids movie, it will destroy your soul. Hush let me enjoy this
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Aug 18, 2015 05:13
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Oh no, it's a great movie. It's just a sad movie. A very sad movie. But I am looking forward to this a lot, it seems like this will be a really cool and interesting thread!
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Aug 18, 2015 05:32
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Good luck on your journey! Very curious to see your perspectives on really diving in head first into an individual's body of work like that, it can be pretty intense once you get into the swing of things. As an aside, if you're interested in any kind of Japanese cinema bonus rounds, I would very, very much recommend Yasujiro Ozu as a contrast with Kurosawa in particular. Especially if you're just willing to fit in The Record of a Tenement Gentleman,Tokyo Story, or Floating Weeds in, as those are considered his most renowned films.
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Aug 18, 2015 05:56
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So what do you hope to get out of this? A better understanding of film in general?
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Aug 18, 2015 07:32
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Hat Thoughts posted:So what do you hope to get out of this? A better understanding of film in general? That plus I have so many people telling me that my childhood was ruined by not having watched anything Miyazaki, so I'm sorta backfilling that into my life experiences list.
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Aug 18, 2015 10:54
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You should watch some Beat Takeshi movies too.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:06
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Fair warning, the first few Kurosawa's are rough. In my opinion "One Wonderful Sunday" is his first true gem. Also I'll be honest, I don't get the idea of joining Kurosawa and Miyazaki, their style are so completely different. It would be like somebody creating a thread to watch every Walt Disney and every Orson Welles film . I don't see the connection aside from the country they lived in. zandert33 fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 14:44
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Nineball posted:As an aside, if you're interested in any kind of Japanese cinema bonus rounds, I would very, very much recommend Yasujiro Ozu as a contrast with Kurosawa in particular. Especially if you're just willing to fit in The Record of a Tenement Gentleman,Tokyo Story, or Floating Weeds in, as those are considered his most renowned films. I've seen most of Kurosawa's work but I've had a bunch of Ozu stuff sitting in my Hulu queue for a while and haven't gotten into it yet. Whats the best place to start? Tokyo Story?
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Aug 18, 2015 14:49
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Basebf555 posted:I've seen most of Kurosawa's work but I've had a bunch of Ozu stuff sitting in my Hulu queue for a while and haven't gotten into it yet. Whats the best place to start? Tokyo Story? Tokyo Story is a safe bet, but I actually enjoyed "Floating Weeds" more.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:53
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zandert33 posted:Fair warning, the first few Kurosawa's are rough. In my opinion "One Wonderful Sunday" is his first true gem. The disparity is honestly why I'm doing both at once. I don't want to be consuming a never-ending stream of one style. I want to keep things fresh by bouncing back and forth between 2 very highly distinct types of film. And yeah; the only real connection is their country of origin and the fact that they're both considered to be influential. jivjov fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 15:12
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jivjov posted:The disparity is honestly why I'm doing both at once. I don't want to be consuming a never-ending stream of one style. I hear you, and I can understand wanting to mix things up. I think you'll be surprised by how much Kurosawa did that on his own though, I know I was. For instance he did Ikiru in 1952, then Seven Samurai in 54, then Throne of Blood in 57. Three very different films.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:21
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Can't say I'll be able to hop on each and every movie you're watching, but I'd love to try with the stuff that's on Hulu Plus as there's a lot of early Kurosawa I haven't seen. In any event, best of luck on your journey. Kurosawa's work is life-affirming.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:45
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I've been slowly working my way through Kurosawa in order myself. Unfortunately, I had already seen most of the great ones. Rather than going Miyazaki, though, you might want to just look at how post-war cinema in Japan developed by following the through line of Kurosawa and supplementing it with other major films from the period. Skip the weaker films by other directors and use their masterpieces to compare it to what Kurosawa was doing. zandert33 posted:Fair warning, the first few Kurosawa's are rough. In my opinion "One Wonderful Sunday" is his first true gem. I think you can see glimpses of the director Kurosawa would become in the Sugata films and The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail, but he's still obviously learning. The scripts for the Sugata movies aren't very strong and there's an amazing fifteen minute short film buried in the seventy minutes of Tiger's Tail. Stray Dog is the moment that he becomes Kurosawa to me, though. Kull the Conqueror posted:Can't say I'll be able to hop on each and every movie you're watching, but I'd love to try with the stuff that's on Hulu Plus as there's a lot of early Kurosawa I haven't seen. In any event, best of luck on your journey. Kurosawa's work is life-affirming. Access to most of the foreign films in the Criterion collection is the best reason to have Hulu Plus. I've caught myself up on most of my "I really should watch that someday" films through it. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 16:49
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The biggest part of my excitement here is that all but one of these movies will be completely new to me.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:50
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I've bought every Kurosawa from the Criterion Collection (I haven't watched Hidden Fortress yet) but those are the only of his that I've seen besides Ran. I'm excited for you to experience Kurosawa, because as Kull said, it's life affirming.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:15
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I'll post my thoughts as well, as I am going to be sitting right next to Jivjov on his moving picture journey. And we're off!
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Aug 19, 2015 02:17
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Don't touch Sanshiro He'll get mad
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Aug 19, 2015 02:57
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Watch some Masaki Kobayashi if you get the chance. He's not nearly as well known as Kurosawa but on the same level. Hara-Kiri is at very least the best non-Kurosawa samurai film.
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Aug 19, 2015 03:11
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Sanshiro Sugata, 1943, dir. Akira Kurosawa I thought this Kurosawa film was garbage, personally
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Aug 19, 2015 03:39
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Neowyrm posted:Sanshiro Sugata, 1943, dir. Akira Kurosawa Yeah, there's a reason people have been saying that the early films aren't good. You haven't even hit the low point yet. One thing to bear in mind is that for the first ten to fifteen years of his directorial career, Kurosawa was working under heavy government oversight; first the authoritarian Imperial Japanese regime and later the American occupational government. There's twenty minutes cut out of this movie by the censors. I don't think that an additional twenty minutes would have saved it, but it does make it hard to judge as an artistic work when it's inherently propagandist. (Super tiny spoiler for some the themes in part two that I'm covering up just in case jivjov wants to go in completely blind) And the second Sanshiro film is even more nationalistic. The best thing in Sanshiro, in my view, is the cinematography. Kurosawa is the absolute master of it and even at this early point in his career his skill is showing up. Those early minutes of the film are identifiably Kurosawa with how incredibly well they're shot. The segment with the sandal, for example, or when he's clinging to the tree in the water. Unfortunately, once he gets inside and photographs the matches those qualities vanish.
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Aug 19, 2015 04:32
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Random Stranger posted:Yeah, there's a reason people have been saying that the early films aren't good. You haven't even hit the low point yet. My favorite shot of the film was Sanshiro and Gennosuke grappling, bookended by accelerated shots of passing clouds. The moment where Sanshiro acquires his second wind by first sort of losing himself (The shot of the single stationary cloud) and then thinking back to the flower he saw in the water was the strangest but most distinct shot in the entire piece for me. Other than that, I found the plot, acting, cinematography and direction very dry.
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Aug 19, 2015 04:46
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 Sugata Sanshiro Released March 25th 1943, Directed by Akira Kurosawa First off, I need to make a small rant on the nature of missing footage and censorship. I hate it. I hate it a lot. It is truly and deeply upsetting to me when a bit of history; be it film, television, book, comic, whatever; is lost. In the case of something like old episodes of Doctor Who, it's understandable and nearly forgivable that old reels were purged from the archives. Home media barely existed at all, reruns were unheard of, and who would want to revisit a schlocky sci-fi series from the 60s anyway? But in the case of Sugata Sanshiro, the missing footage is a victim of deliberate censorship: Opening Title Card posted:"This film has been modified from the original version of Akira Kurosawa's debut film, which opened in 1943, without consulting the director or the production staff. 1,845 feet of footage was cut in 1944 to comply with the government's wartime entertainment policies." I am not equipped to offer any concrete condemnation of "wartime entertainment policies", but the practice rubs me the wrong way in a very egregious manner. Whatever was done to prints of the film, it was done in such a manner that prevented the film from being reconstructed afterwards. At a couple of places during the film, actual visuals are substituted with title cards, summarizing events that feel very vital to the overall progression of the plot. Thankfully the original scripts exist, giving a source for these title cards. From a purely structural standpoint, I was briefly taken aback by being back in an era of film with credits at the beginning of the piece, and the a straight cut from the final shot to a "The End" card. From moment one, I am given ample demonstration of how cinema has changed from the 40s to today. On to the film itself. Sanshiro as a character was someone I had difficulty coming to terms with as the movie progressed. I felt a bit confused as to exactly how much I was supposed to be rooting for him as the film progressed. He spends the first few minutes as a rather awkward every-man, then becomes a fight-obsessed bully, then he kills a man in what apparently was an exhibition match, then he beats up an old man, and then enters into a duel to the death (that ultimately kills no one). Somewhere in between manslaughter and geriatric-pummeling, though, he turns a corner and learns how to control what I interpreted as near-superhuman strength. Sanshiro is obviously not some hulking strongman, but his sensei calls out that he has a not-insignificant advantage over his opponents. He seemed genuinely regretful that Hansuke kept getting back up and continuing the fight, and in the final death duel with Gennosuke he ultimately did not kill his rival (Although I question if he was willing to, and then simply stopped fighting when Gennosuke was unable to continue). Its the regretful tone of the final fights that win me around on Sanshiro, he's very much a man who is trapped in an inevitable fight and simply wants to end it. There are a few shots and sequences that stood out to me; the first shot, progressing down the street and turning a corner, immediately set a 'slice of life' tone for me. This is a movie where 'oh yes, this man is going to learn martial arts and get involved in some high profile fights...but its just another day in the life of 1800s Japan'. The first fight between the men Sanshiro originally wants to train with and Yano is full of lingering panning shots, which build quite a lot of suspense (Also, Neowyrm pointed out to me that that particular sequence, while supposedly taking place in evening or late at night, was quite obviously filmed in broad daylight). When Sahshiro goes to train with Yano, there's a very neatly done passage-of-time sequence showing his abandoned geta and the changing seasons around them. The looooooooong shot held on Momma's daughter after the man's death in his fight with Sanshiro goes on for a bit too long for my tastes, but really drives home the fact that Sanshiro just fouled up big time. ADDENDUM EDIT: Forgot to mention this in the first iteration of the post, but this film has one moment of solid overt comedy that was a perfectly timed break in tension. During Sanshiro's fight with Hansuke, he is briefly knocked into a referee's chair, at which point he graciously thanks the ref before resuming the fight. While a couple other scenes got a smile or a chuckle out of me, those struck me as unintentional; moments that were not meant to be funny, but due to my own expectations were found amusing. That brief moment, however, seemed very intentional and was very appreciated. Gennosuke's apperance instantly sets him apart from other characters. Almost everyone else in the film is in very period-appropriate Japanese clothing, but he is dressed and groomed like a Westerner. I honestly think his appearance screams "evil villain" a bit more than it should. And then the final fight on the grassy foothills is visually and aurally stunning. The sound of the wind drowns out the fight, and the two men are often completely obscured by the waving grasses. Its almost seems to be saying that that the fight is ultimately both transient and epic. It cannot be seen or heard, but it takes place out among wild and untamed nature, not in a man-made dojo or even a back alley. Overall, I rather enjoyed the film. It definitely "feels" like what I'm told a Kurosawa film should be. I really liked the personal focus on Sanshiro's growth both as a martial artist and a man. I deeply regret the loss of nearly 20 minutes of this film, as I would have liked to see more of his trials as he learned and progressed (notably truncated, Momma's daughter attempts to assassinate Sanshiro after her father's death, and it really feels like not only was she meant to play a bigger part, but one of the title cards spells out a training session between Yano and Sanshiro that's completely gone and I think that scene in particular would have helped bridge the gap between early-Sanshiro and late-Sanshiro). So far I am not regretting embarking on this journey, and if (as everyone is saying) Kurosawa only goes up from here, I'm in for a good time. Up Next: The Most Beautiful Released April 13th 1944, Directed by Akira Kurosawa (Two notes: 1, Due to there being more Kurosawa films than Ghibli/Miyazaki films, I'm going to double [and probably even triple] up on Kurosawa in a couple places. I'm currently planning on watching The Most Beautiful and Sugata Sanshiro Part II before jumping over to The Castle of Cagliostro. 2. I'm also going to accelerate the watching/reviewing cycle, at least for these earlier and shorter films.I don't want to commit to two films per week once we get to the 2+ hour epics, but for now at least, I should be able to fit them in.) EDIT: This got posted in the thread on December 20, 2016; worth taking a look at. Raxivace posted:David Bordwell recently did a brief piece on Sanshiro Sugata that I thought was worth sharing. jivjov fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2015 04:49
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jivjov posted:
Nicely written. I will disagree with you on the depiction of Gennosuke. I don't think his outfit was meant to note villainy or depravity of any sort. I feel it was just meant to notate a difference. It just says "refined" and "force/power" to me, neither of which are inherently evil, much like Gennosuke himself. edit: You're right on the money with the dramatic sensory reduction/obfuscation, though. Neowyrm fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 05:05
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Neowyrm posted:Nicely written. I will disagree with you on the depiction of Gennosuke. I don't think his outfit was meant to note villainy or depravity of any sort. I feel it was just meant to notate a difference. It just says "refined" and "force/power" to me, neither of which are inherently evil, much like Gennosuke himself. Well, part of what I meant to convey with '"his appearance screams "evil villain" a bit more than it should" is that I feel that the intent was definitely the 'refined power' that you mention, but cultural baggage/metaknowledge/expectations makes the suit and facial hair 'feel' more sinister than it really should have. I'm bringing in outside expectations (which I'm guessing are exaggerated) of just how insular Japan was/is, and how much someone in western-style clothing is spitting in the face of social order.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:08
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Well it actually goes downhill from here for a little while to be honest, until Drunken Angel. Sanshiro Sugata is the best pre-Toshiro Mifune film Kurosawa made by quite a margin. Hell I'd go as far as saying One Wonderful Sunday and Sanshiro Sugata: Part II are genuinely bad films (With The Most Beautiful not being much better) and possibly the worst in Kurosawa's entire filmography. Red Beard is pretty close, though you won't be getting to that for a while. I still have to see the last four movies he made though (Ran through Madadayo), so I'm almost at the end of my own Kurosawa journey myself. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 05:09
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Raxivace posted:I'd go as far as saying One Wonderful Sunday and Sanshiro Sugata: Part II are genuinely bad films, and possibly the worst in Kurosawa's entire filmography. Looking forward to it 
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Aug 19, 2015 05:10
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Neowyrm posted:Looking forward to it I weep for you. EDIT: Though after you get through this rough patch Kurosawa starts making masterpieces so it's not all bad. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 05:22
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Raxivace posted:I weep for you. I've never watched a filmmaker's entire feature filmography before (unless you count every time I've seen Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow), so I've been trying to brace myself for the inevitability that most directors make one or two lovely films. When you have as many total films under your belt as Akira Kurosawa, the ratio stays the same, the volume just increases.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:33
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Neowyrm posted:I've never watched a filmmaker's entire feature filmography before (unless you count every time I've seen Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow), so I've been trying to brace myself for the inevitability that most directors make one or two lovely films. When you have as many total films under your belt as Akira Kurosawa, the ratio stays the same, the volume just increases. Yeah, sadly this is the case. I've actually seen all 50+ of Alfred Hitchcock's feature films (Sans the film that has been lost to history), and his silent period is almost entirely dispensable, and that is longer than some director's entire careers alone. However tracking an artist's development can be very interesting, and you should be able to see how different techniques and styles will be better applied over time. Even in Sanshiro Sugata, despite the film being flawed, you can sort of see the basis for Kurosawa's samurai pictures developing, and you even see his long partnership with actor Takashi Shimura beginning, which would go all the way into 1980.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:39
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jivjov posted:Gennosuke's apperance instantly sets him apart from other characters. Almost everyone else in the film is in very period-appropriate Japanese clothing, but he is dressed and groomed like a Westerner. One theme to watch for in the early years of Kurosawa is the effect of Western influences on Japan. Initially, I think it was spurred on by wartime politics, but Kurosawa seemed to want to explore it deeply. Sugata Sanshiro is set at a time when Japan was going nuts for the west; they had just recently opened up to the outside world again and there was a bit of mania for that stuff. And the film itself comes from a time when Japan was at the height of their nationalistic fervor. The flip side of this, though, is that Kurosawa himself was very influenced by western directors. In particular John Ford (and I have a story for that when you get a few more films down the line). Ford was cutting a new path of cinematography himself at the time (see Stagecoach) and Kurosawa took a lot of those concepts and cut a kind of parallel track. Compare this movie to the typical film of the early 40's (yes, there are several people besides Ford who stand out) and the difference is startling. FWIW, the thing that the censors objected to the most in Sugata Sanshiro was the love story and that's what got cut. If you're interested, Hulu Plus has a short piece (obviously taken from a DVD extra) on Kurosawa's relationship with the censors, though I'd recommend holding off on watching it for a while since it covers about the first ten films. Raxivace posted:Hell I'd go as far as saying One Wonderful Sunday and Sanshiro Sugata: Part II are genuinely bad films I don't think One Wonderful Sunday is a masterpiece, but it is an enjoyable film. Especially when you consider how it captures post-war Tokyo so directly (another theme Kurosawa is going to dive deeply into, despite the American censors objecting to it). Sure it's a sappy love story, but it's a post-apocalyptic sappy love story. Raxivace posted:Yeah, sadly this is the case. I've actually seen all 50+ of Alfred Hitchcock's feature films (Sans the film that has been lost to history), and his silent period is almost entirely dispensable, and that is longer than some director's entire careers alone. I liked The Lodger, at least.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:59
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Fun fact about the Japanese censor board that looked at Sanshiro Sugata: Yasujiro Ozu was actually on the board that examined the film and was one of the few to actually defend it and helped get it released. Gotta love that Ozu. Random Stranger posted:I don't think One Wonderful Sunday is a masterpiece, but it is an enjoyable film. Especially when you consider how it captures post-war Tokyo so directly (another theme Kurosawa is going to dive deeply into, despite the American censors objecting to it). Sure it's a sappy love story, but it's a post-apocalyptic sappy love story. quote:I liked The Lodger, at least. zandert33 posted:Sanshiro Part II, sure, but "One Wonderful Sunday" a "bad" film? I think you're in the minority stating that. It is possible I am in the minority, yes. I don't think disliking OWS is as outrageous to people as, say, Godard's making GBS threads on Seven Samurai though. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 06:10
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Raxivace posted:Hell I'd go as far as saying One Wonderful Sunday and Sanshiro Sugata: Part II are genuinely bad films Sanshiro Part II, sure, but "One Wonderful Sunday" a "bad" film? I think you're in the minority stating that.
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Aug 19, 2015 06:13
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This:zandert33 posted:Also I'll be honest, I don't get the idea of joining Kurosawa and Miyazaki, their style are so completely different. It would be like somebody creating a thread to watch every Walt Disney and every Orson Welles film. I don't see the connection aside from the country they lived in. In addition, if your aim is to get a sense of classic Japanese cinema, watching every film of two directors is hardly the way to do it. Throwing in an Akira or Paprika or Grave of the Fireflies does more to enhance your intuition about Japanese cinema than doing all three of Mononoke, Nausicaa, and Laputa.
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Aug 19, 2015 07:00
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jivjov posted:So far I am not regretting embarking on this journey, and if (as everyone is saying) Kurosawa only goes up from here, I'm in for a good time. His 1950s output is going to blow your mind. As an aside, you should take the time to check out some of the films he worked on but didn't direct, particularly the excellent Snow Trail (1947) which he wrote and stars his longtime stars Takashi Shimura and Toshiro Mifune (in his first role!) - two actors you're going to become very familiar with over the course of this project. Last I knew it was on Criterion's Hulu Plus channel.
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Aug 19, 2015 13:54
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TrixRabbi posted:His 1950s output is going to blow your mind. Is there any other way to access the movie? I wanted to check it out after reading about it in The Emperor and The Wolf (Great book btw, though I'm still only about 100 pages in), but it looks like there's never been a DVD release here in the States of Snow Trail.
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Aug 19, 2015 13:57
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Raxivace posted:Is there any other way to access the movie? I wanted to check it out after reading about it in The Emperor and The Wolf (Great book btw, though I'm still only about 100 pages in), but it looks like there's never been a DVD release here in the States of Snow Trail. It's not on YouTube so I've got no idea. Also, Miyazaki and Kurosawa seem like an odd pairing because they're separated by a generation with Miyazaki beginning his career at the end of Kurosawa's, their methods are completely different, and the contrast between anime and live action Japanese cinema is a big big one. But both also have this extreme appreciation for the beauty of life which connects them in this way.
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Aug 19, 2015 14:01
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