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Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Alternate thread subtitles:
The Wire season 6
gently caress White People
Blacks? In MY neighborhood? It's more likely than you think.
low-income public housing is so sexy you guys
The other thread is rubbish so now this exists



Show Me a Hero is a six-part miniseries airing on HBO right now; two episodes every Sunday from the 16th-30th August. Co-written by Wire creator David Simon and fellow ex-Baltimore Sun reporter/Wire writer William F. Zorzi and directed by he-did-Crash-but-is-overall-pretty-talented Paul Haggis, it's about the real life struggle to build low-income public housing in middle and upper-class neighborhoods in Yonkers in the late 80s and early 90s.

Oscar Isaac, one of the best talents around right now, stars as newly-elected mayor of Yonkers Nick Wasicsko, who campaigned against the housing plans before getting into office and realising he literally has no choice but to comply and try to get everyone else to go along with him. Other notable cast members include Alfred Molina as a poo poo-stirring fuckbag on Yonkers City Council, Winona Ryder as another council member who is for the plans, Catherine Keener as a racist old lady who presumably becomes less racist as it goes on, and Shane from The Walking Dead as a civil rights attorney pushing for desegregation.

The first two episodes are great. Being so short, it's accessible much more quickly than the rest of Simon's work, and the actual modern direction from Haggis really helps. It draws you in pretty quickly. Like his other work it's absolutely rage-inducing - so many of these characters are absolutely detestable with their white people not in my back yard racist bullshit and the lengths people go to to oppose the plan are maddening, yet it just about toes the line and stops from falling over into caricature. Isaac is amazing as a character who doesn't necessarily inspire sympathy (he's complying with the order to build the houses because he has to, not because he wants to) but is still clearly trying to do the right thing and is being faced with terrible opposition, and the rest of the cast certainly pull their weight too. It's on course to be one of the best shows of the year, so of course nobody is really watching or talking about it.

In summation: Don't be a zero, watch Show Me a Hero! *loving dies*

and yeah there's another thread but it's just so so terrible and already on page 3 and this one deserves a good OP. also occ asked me to make it and didn't tell me there was another one until i was close to done

Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Aug 19, 2015

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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


You should really watch this show if you haven't, it's very nearly perfect

the only complaint i have is that, thus far, the storylines that aren't centered around the housing crisis feel completely out of lockstep with the main storyline. they're not bad, just not relational at all and subsequently come across as completely superfluous

precision
May 7, 2006

hug your posting pals


I will check this out because it sounds very cool and good.

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010


Show is good, thread is already terrible

precision
May 7, 2006

hug your posting pals


savinhill posted:

Show is good, thread is already terrible

Well, you would know.

Power Walrus
Dec 23, 2003



Fun Shoe

I am really liking this show. It's engaging and looks beautiful, and it has lots of actors from The Wire (Orlando runs the NAACP!). Oscar Isaac is just terrific.
OP is right in that it is absolutely rage-inducing. I took a break halfway through episode two because the Good People of Yonkers make me want to destroy my TV.

mattfl
Aug 27, 2004



Toxxupation posted:

You should really watch this show if you haven't, it's very nearly perfect

the only complaint i have is that, thus far, the storylines that aren't centered around the housing crisis feel completely out of lockstep with the main storyline. they're not bad, just not relational at all and subsequently come across as completely superfluous

I agree with this, I really don't know/care what is going on with the lady who takes her kids back to the DR and is now moving back? I guess she'll maybe get one of the newer/nicer houses and wind up with a better life?

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Oh, was she back in her home country? I thought it was like, she was somewhere lovely in Yonkers and then had to go live and work in NYC because there was the only thing she could do and it was all "if only there was public housing for her!!!" But that's not the first time I've heard that so

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(



I think for this one I'm going to wait a month and burn through the rest in one day of watching. It's how I did The Wire until the 4th season and I think it's just better to watch this style of show in binges. (I still don't know how I avoided The Wire for three years, being as that hooked me from "This America man")

Have fun y'all.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


The shows already in a burnoff of two a week, you mine as well watch it as it airs

It's also not like the wire in the sense of being this huge constructed narrative, it has only one main story with all the minority b-plots very much less integral and seemingly only exist to provide a human element to what the public housing is providing

mattfl
Aug 27, 2004



Escobarbarian posted:

Oh, was she back in her home country? I thought it was like, she was somewhere lovely in Yonkers and then had to go live and work in NYC because there was the only thing she could do and it was all "if only there was public housing for her!!!" But that's not the first time I've heard that so

She was living in the lovely public housing/ghetto in Yonkers and was working in some office furniture store complaining that she barely made enough to pay rent and have $20/30 leftover at the end of each month. Packed up her kids and moved back to DR where the kids father is, the guy on the bench in the second episode. She then leaves her kids in the DR and heads back to the states, presumably back to Yonkers I guess, not sure why she feels she would need to go back to the same situation she just left though.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.



I was in the middle of making a thread and did a double check before posting and here is a thread, so I wasted some time. Anyway, here were some of the things I was going to say.

First off, can anyone fill me in on who Ralph is? He is the guy who gets Wasicsko's mayoral campaign started, and is played by Michael Kostroff (Maury Levy from The Wire). I couldn't tell if gave Nick the money to start the campaign simply so the current mayor had someone to run against, or if he actually wanted him to win. It seemed like with the phone call at the end of episode 1, that Ralph didn't really intend for him to win.

I hope the stories of the people in public housing intersect with the main story, but I have a feeling it's just to show what the common people are dealing with on a day-to-day basis, we'll see.

Last thing for now, I just listened to This American Life episode called The Problem We All Live With, which is about modern day school integration. The first part of the episode deals with a St. Louis suburb receiving 1,000 mostly black kids from a failed school district. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but the white residents outside St. Louis in 2013 sound almost identical to the white residents of Yonkers in 1988. 25 years, and almost no progress has been made, at least among white suburbanites.

Zythrst
May 31, 2011

Time to join a revolution son, its going to be yooge!

Bird in a Blender posted:

I was in the middle of making a thread and did a double check before posting and here is a thread, so I wasted some time. Anyway, here were some of the things I was going to say.

First off, can anyone fill me in on who Ralph is? He is the guy who gets Wasicsko's mayoral campaign started, and is played by Michael Kostroff (Maury Levy from The Wire). I couldn't tell if gave Nick the money to start the campaign simply so the current mayor had someone to run against, or if he actually wanted him to win. It seemed like with the phone call at the end of episode 1, that Ralph didn't really intend for him to win.

I hope the stories of the people in public housing intersect with the main story, but I have a feeling it's just to show what the common people are dealing with on a day-to-day basis, we'll see.

Last thing for now, I just listened to This American Life episode called The Problem We All Live With, which is about modern day school integration. The first part of the episode deals with a St. Louis suburb receiving 1,000 mostly black kids from a failed school district. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but the white residents outside St. Louis in 2013 sound almost identical to the white residents of Yonkers in 1988. 25 years, and almost no progress has been made, at least among white suburbanites.

Cities of at least Yonkers size always run somebody in opposition even if one party has run the mayor chair for 100 years or whatever.

The SituAsian
Oct 29, 2006

Nanananananana
I start humming and before I know it
I feel like crying, I don't feel like myself
This isn't like me at all
I love you so much

Enjoyes what i saw of parts 1 and 2 and looking forward to the rest.

Based on this and A Most Violent Year -which i think is fantastic- Oscar Issac is a master of the slow but not boring drama.

Klaus88
Jan 23, 2011

Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment


I predict this thread will be filled with zombie jokes, because Yonkers and world war z you see. :toot:

Ali Alkali
Apr 23, 2008


mattfl posted:

She was living in the lovely public housing/ghetto in Yonkers and was working in some office furniture store complaining that she barely made enough to pay rent and have $20/30 leftover at the end of each month. Packed up her kids and moved back to DR where the kids father is, the guy on the bench in the second episode. She then leaves her kids in the DR and heads back to the states, presumably back to Yonkers I guess, not sure why she feels she would need to go back to the same situation she just left though.

Only the youngest kid! And she goes back to the states because while she couldnt afford to live in yonkers, she cant make a living in the DR. Another reason why she moved away I guess is because she didnt want her kids to grow up in the segregated yonkers projects while being subjected to classicism, and thats why she leaves them behind when she goes back.

Bird in a Blender posted:

First off, can anyone fill me in on who Ralph is? He is the guy who gets Wasicsko's mayoral campaign started, and is played by Michael Kostroff (Maury Levy from The Wire). I couldn't tell if gave Nick the money to start the campaign simply so the current mayor had someone to run against, or if he actually wanted him to win. It seemed like with the phone call at the end of episode 1, that Ralph didn't really intend for him to win.
He is the local democratic party boss. I think what happened was that some districts got gerrymandered or something and in the coming election Wasicsko was going to have to run against a another, senior democratic councilman, so instead the boss got him to run for mayor, making Wascisko abandon his councilman run. Apparently not having a primary was his only concern since he also gave the other guy the same offer, and yeah he was unhappy about the status quo being interrupted.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I've only caught the first episode so far but I really dug it - I have to admit to feeling like a bit of a dullard though for not immediately grasping the time-jumps between scenes until they became ridiculously obvious.

The council meeting where people are screaming about blacks and Hispanicspoor people ruining their neighborhood was really effectively done and deeply depressing. Probably my favorite bit though was during the big victory celebrations for Wasicsko, where that phone is just constantly ringing and turns out to be coming from the next scene where he gets the news about the appeal. I love the idea that this one thing that got him the votes is bearing down on him and ready to run him over even before his victory celebrations are halfway done.

sean price
Sep 30, 2011

by Lowtax


This is a very good show.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!


Show owns, HBO owns, TV owns. I love TV.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope




Ali Alkali posted:

Only the youngest kid! And she goes back to the states because while she couldnt afford to live in yonkers, she cant make a living in the DR. Another reason why she moved away I guess is because she didnt want her kids to grow up in the segregated yonkers projects while being subjected to classicism, and thats why she leaves them behind when she goes back.
It's not uncommon for immigrants to spend a few years in the US, make a semi decent wage, then try to move back only to remember why the gently caress they left in the first place (lack of opportunity, depressed earnings or some kind of social issue like crazy militarized gangs and poo poo).

And when things are really bad? You leave the kids back in the homecountry. Because they'll get sitter opportunities and education, but the money you can send back their way basically counters that particular handicap.

As a plus, you also save on school supplies, food costs and can live in a smaller, shittier place. And you only have to sacrifice being there for their childhood/adolescence!!! :smith:

radlum
May 13, 2013


FilthyImp posted:

It's not uncommon for immigrants to spend a few years in the US, make a semi decent wage, then try to move back only to remember why the gently caress they left in the first place (lack of opportunity, depressed earnings or some kind of social issue like crazy militarized gangs and poo poo).

And when things are really bad? You leave the kids back in the homecountry. Because they'll get sitter opportunities and education, but the money you can send back their way basically counters that particular handicap.

As a plus, you also save on school supplies, food costs and can live in a smaller, shittier place. And you only have to sacrifice being there for their childhood/adolescence!!! :smith:

I've had many friends that had to live like this; one of their parents would move to the US and send money so they could live a better life in my country and after a few years, either the parents returned or managed to bring their kids to the US. My grandma did the same thing (she moved to the US for close to a year and worked as a nurse for an older woman) and saved enough to help my uncle start his own business, so I can understand why the woman in the show is going back to the US.

Anyway, this is a good show; it's probably the best thing Jim Belushi has ever been in. Oscar Isaac is great, he deserves all the recognition and that TAL episode was depressing (I wanted to punch that one guy that proposed classes to start earlier so african-american kids wouldn't be able to attend.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.



^^^^
The TAL episode was probably something I shouldn't have listened to in the car because I was starting to go blind with rage while listening to it.

Well the show definitely makes me want to read the book because I'd love to get more details on all this. Probably the one thing driving me crazy is how the white residents refuse to acknowledge that the city has no other option but to build the housing. They're just clasping their hands over their ears and screaming "NO, NO, NO" and thinking that it will make it all go away. I was really glad to see Wasicsko talk about the dog-whistle politics of the whole thing, and it looks like next episode it goes from dog-whistle to air horn.

Also, I'd like to know if Spallone was this much of a douchebag in real life, or if they're taking a little bit of creative license because oh man is he a douchebag.

Symetrique
Jan 1, 2013






Oh hey Namond finally got a haircut.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.



I do like their use of Wire actor cameos in the show. It looks like Clarke Peters finally shows up next week.

Here is everyone I can remember

Brother Mouzone - Michael Potts
Maury Levy - Michael Kostroff
Namond - Julito McCullum
Cheryl - Melanie Nichols-King

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Also, one of Carcetti's advisors was in an episode.

edit: Neal Huff, who played Carcetti's chief of staff.

In non-wire related cameos I liked Daniel Holden's lawyer from Rectify being in the show as a lawyer.

algebra testes fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Aug 29, 2015

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Bird in a Blender posted:

Also, I'd like to know if Spallone was this much of a douchebag in real life, or if they're taking a little bit of creative license because oh man is he a douchebag.

Haha, I just finished episode 4 and came to ask exactly the same question, because the dude is a gigantic rear end in a top hat. Him putting his feet up and grunting,"Wake me when something important happens" at his first big council meeting was hilarious.

HeebHustler
Jan 16, 2007



I wish I had the energy to do a proper write up for this series. I'll just say that it was really well done and I'm glad I didnt know any of the backstory going into it. It touches on a lot of big issues and ideas and has the writing and acting to actually see some of them through. Really a breath of fresh air among the usual stuff you will find on television.

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.



Amazing miniseries that just wrapped up and zero discussion here. Did everyone give up on David Simon after Treme?

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park



I saw one episode of the Wire, and it was pretty clear that it was not for me. But as a foreigner i found this series to be really fascinating, and i very much enjoyed watching it.
Though i must admit i was a little confused in the last episode, because a bunch of people were running for a ton of weird political positions, and i couldn't follow it well.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



Cacator posted:

Amazing miniseries that just wrapped up and zero discussion here. Did everyone give up on David Simon after Treme?

I like David Simon for all his flaws but Paul Haggis? Eh...

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.



Raxivace posted:

I like David Simon for all his flaws but Paul Haggis? Eh...

"Crash" aside I think his presence gave the show a much more cinematic quality than Simon's past shows, plus he got a lot of goodwill in my book when he very publicly quit Scientology.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER



This was a fantastic miniseries and I hope nobody lets feelings about Simon or Haggis or anyone keep them from giving it a try.

It's masterfully done.

frosteh
Apr 30, 2009


Excellent miniseries, I really enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of both The Wire and Treme though, so no surprise there. Oscar Isaac continues to be amazing in just about everything.

One thing I couldn't figure out was at the end before he killed himself, what was his wife "911" paging him about? The only thing I could think of was that she had a bad feeling that he might do something rash and felt like she needed to talk to him, I dunno.

wolffenstein
Aug 2, 2002
 

Pork Pro

frosteh posted:

One thing I couldn't figure out was at the end before he killed himself, what was his wife "911" paging him about? The only thing I could think of was that she had a bad feeling that he might do something rash and felt like she needed to talk to him, I dunno.
That's my interpretation as well. Maybe the brother called her after Nick left the house without saying anything.

Falstaff Infection
Oct 1, 2014


This and Better Call Saul were without a doubt the best things to happen on TV in 2015. The finale genuinely made me tear up twice-- first with joy, when racist poodle lady finally relented and let the kid play with her dogs, then with sadness during Nick's funeral montage. Holy gently caress, that look on Vinni's face was devastating, as was Nick's voice cracking when he called out for his brother.

I sort of wonder how the major players (at least those of them who are still alive) feel about their portrayals in the series. Like, has the mayor (the dude with the glasses who's all about "reform", his name escapes me at the moment) said anything in his own defense, given what a shitbag he's portrayed as in the show? Also, do people think that Nick was, in any meaningful sense, a "hero?" Like, on the one hand he sacrificed tremendously in order to do the right thing, but he wasn't really motivated by particularly noble impulses. I kept hoping he'd give up on politics and just become, like, a civil rights attorney for the people in public housing (I thought he was gonna end up representing Billie in her eviction case), but in the end all he really cared about was having "his name ring out," to paraphrase another Simon show.

Ali Alkali
Apr 23, 2008


Well that is the point, I think. Nick wasnt a hero and he realized that. He felt like he sacrificed his dreams and the very idea of his being for something for something that would have happened with or without him and people around him knew it too. He wanted to be the hero in the story about the public housing but was instead only one of its victims.

I think the story about Nick is parallel to the one about the public housing but instead of being about racism, community or public housing strategies, his story are about the human frailty and the humanity of politicians. Kill them all tho.

Falstaff Infection
Oct 1, 2014


Ali Alkali posted:

Well that is the point, I think. Nick wasnt a hero and he realized that. He felt like he sacrificed his dreams and the very idea of his being for something for something that would have happened with or without him and people around him knew it too. He wanted to be the hero in the story about the public housing but was instead only one of its victims.

I think this gives Nick too little credit. I think it took a great deal of grit and political acumen to stick out his term of mayor and wrangle the necessary votes for housing. Even if it would've inevitably happened one way or another, it could've been an even more drawn-out(!) and ugly(!!) process without Nick to shepherd things along and cajole the rest of the city council. Without Nick, assholes like Spanelli probably would've driven the agenda even more with their grandstanding and the city may well have ended up going bankrupt because of the fines, among other things. So I really do think that Nick deserved some recognition for his role in pushing through the housing-- the fact that he didn't do it for social justice related reasons, of course, only adds to the tragic dimensions of his story. He was a deeply flawed, fundamentally incomplete human being, but he achieved something great and ended up paying dearly for it.

wolffenstein
Aug 2, 2002
 

Pork Pro

The city did end up going bankrupt anyway. That's why the state board came in to manage the city's finances.

Nick was pragmatic. I doubt he was ever for desegregation, but rather he was for complying with the court order. He knew it would bankrupt Yonkers to fight it and tried what he could to prevent that.

The title is part of a F. Scott Fitzgerald quote: "Show me a hero and I will write you a tragedy". The promotional poster has this line: "How does a politician know he's doing the right thing? We make him pay." Nick is a hero because he fought for what he believed in, and he lost nearly all his political power. Sadly he put too much of his self worth in that, and when he thought the last ounce was about to go, he didn't see any point in going on. That isn't to say everything he did was good or perfect. His wife losing her job thanks to Nick's ill-advised political actions is a great example, and I think that action plus running against Vinni made her willing enough to tell Nay about the supposed affair. I don't know if Nick actually had an affair, but it was obvious Vinni no longer saw Nick on a higher perch than everyone else.

wolffenstein fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 1, 2015

Ali Alkali
Apr 23, 2008


I think it was highly implied that Vinni made the affair up to hurt Nick

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ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.



Yeah, Nick's complete nonchalance at the mention of the hotel, plus Vinni's extremely guilty look at the funeral seemed to confirm that she made it up.

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