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Snak posted:It should have ended with Venom fatal ripping the horn out of his head to stab skullface in the head with it. Then they both die. Skullface's mask in tatters makes him the mirror image of Venom. Harrow posted:While he also walks off to his death, which Big Boss appears to have ordered, doing to Venom exactly what he hated the US for doing to the Boss. Both of the above ideas sound cool as gently caress. Wonder if Death Stranding really has a good story or will the main effort go towards making extremely good trailers with notable actors.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:13
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Terminally Bored posted:Both of the above ideas sound cool as gently caress. I hope that it's got like, a Bravely Default level of gameplay, where after Mads Mikkelsen is introduced in that cutscene, he's a stationary chibi in town that you can go talk to for like, 4 lines of dialogue. He lets you unlock that Tactical Necromancer job. And that all of Norman Reedus's dialogue is like, coy zombie puns.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:16
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If I was going to suggest bigger changes to the story, I think I'd also drop the parasite thing entirely. I get where Kojima was going with it, but any thematic resonance got lost in the copious sci-fi technobabble. I think Tretij Rebenok (whose name I'm not going to type again and just say Mantis) was a much better MacGuffin. This kid with amazing powers who is such a strong empath that, as it turns out, he isn't the puppet master but the puppet, that is fantastic, and resonates with what happens to Venom. He's taken over by people with strong negative emotions, strong desires for revenge or destruction, and that also ties into the theme of negative emotions taking someone over and turning them into a demon. Drop the parasite thing altogether. Make li'l Mantis (and the ability to control Sahelanthropus through him, maybe even bigger things, entire nations' militaries and military tech) the big world-ending threat instead. It might not make as much of a statement about cultures and nations, but it would really amplify the human-scale themes of the game, and that would've been very cool. Snak posted:It should have ended with Venom fatal ripping the horn out of his head to stab skullface in the head with it. Then they both die. Skullface's mask in tatters makes him the mirror image of Venom. Yeah, that's the kind of thing I don't really need an explanation for, but I like that Big Boss sending Venom to die in his place at Outer Heaven makes Big Boss do to Venom what was done to The Boss, the betrayal that sent Big Boss on this journey to begin with. "It's like poetry, it rhymes" - master writer George Lucas (although in this case I actually mean it sincerely, it's legit poetic) Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 15:21
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Snak posted:I hope that it's got like, a Bravely Default level of gameplay, where after Mads Mikkelsen is introduced in that cutscene, he's a stationary chibi in town that you can go talk to for like, 4 lines of dialogue. Isn't BD the game where they ran out of money 2/3 into the story and went "ok, so now it's a time loop and you have to play it 9 times again"? Cause that would be really poignant.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:27
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Terminally Bored posted:Isn't BD the game where they ran out of money 2/3 into the story and went "ok, so now it's a time loop and you have to play it 9 times again"? Yeah basically, only it's four times and by the time we got it in the West they added the ability to turn off random encounters, and added a bunch of new side quests and super fun optional boss fights to the loops. It's still tedious (and highlights how boring the game's dungeon design is) but the side quests are fun enough that it's still worth doing all the loops. The final chapter has some of my favorite RPG boss fights in a long time thanks to those optional bosses. The bosses you fought to get your job classes throughout the game start teaming up in groups of two, three, and eventually full groups of four, with clever interactions between their abilities that make for some really clever and strategic fights.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:28
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The whole point of Bravely Default is that you're supposed to be jarred into thinking for yourself instead of following the quest markers. You can reach the 'end' of the game like 1/4th through the first part of the story if you really want to. By the second time you're 'repeating' the game, it's started to lay on pretty heavy clues as to what you're actually doing wrong. If you play the game 9 times it's because you didn't read anything anyone said or watch any cut scenes and mashed A. Like, yes, it is technically possible to keep playing the game over and over and over in a loop, but the characters literally start telling you 'we can't keep going in this loop, we're doing this wrong'. People laid into it so hard, but so much of that design is deliberate and party of the story. And not fake 'part of the story' like the 'MGSV has unimplemented features because of The PHANTOM PAIN' stuff. Like, by the third loop, the fairy that you know is literally the big bad evil destroying the multiverse is telling you 'Keep pressing A, press it a lot, or it'll be very bad, don't stop no matter what, okay, keep pressing it, I'm giving you 5 minutes of button mashing to keep pressing it, but literally don't stop,  "
Ambivalent fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 05:53
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I think the thing that bugs me the most about fixing the 'plot hole' of Big Boss dying twice is ... It wasn't a plot hole. I mean I may be wrong because it's been forever, but doesn't MG2 already explain why he didn't die in MG1? I do like the twist though, in theory. The game is just so lacking in story and Venom has so little character that it's hard to care by the time you get to that mission. In a perfect world where Kojima got to put more story in I think it could have been quite lovely. Though even in a world where he put everything he wanted to in the game I'm pretty sure it would still be lacking in story-- at least compared to the rest of the games in the series. He did that deliberately, I think. Wasn't part of hiring Kiefer wanting to be able to tell more through a look rather than a piece of dialogue?
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Dec 15, 2016 06:53
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Harrow posted:Yeah, that's the kind of thing I don't really need an explanation for, but I like that Big Boss sending Venom to die in his place at Outer Heaven makes Big Boss do to Venom what was done to The Boss, the betrayal that sent Big Boss on this journey to begin with. "It's like poetry, it rhymes" - master writer George Lucas (although in this case I actually mean it sincerely, it's legit poetic) Kinda funny that the game does a terrible job of setting this up. Venom was even betrayed by his "Country" the same way.
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Dec 15, 2016 07:09
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esperterra posted:I think the thing that bugs me the most about fixing the 'plot hole' of Big Boss dying twice is ... It wasn't a plot hole. I mean I may be wrong because it's been forever, but doesn't MG2 already explain why he didn't die in MG1? If you contact Kasler in Metal Gear 2 during the boss fight with Big Boss, he mentions that he survived the events of Outer Heaven but only barely and needed to undergo cybernetic surgery to survive. It's a little kooky but like, whatever nobody really questioned plots of games from back then. People just kind of accepted that he survived and needed cybernetic prosthetics. If anything, MGSV opens up a plot hole. Solid Snake was supposed to have trained under Big Boss with Big Boss as his CO in FOXHOUND, how the hell could he have not noticed that the Big Boss of Outer Heaven now strangely had a giant lump of shrapnel poking out of his head and a cybernetic arm? I like the end twist thematically but as part of a continuous series it really just doesn't work at all.
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Dec 15, 2016 12:33
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It wasn't about closing a plot hole, it was about deflating the legend of Big Boss by a) revealing that he didn't even do half the stuff he's legendary for; b) making the player feel personally betrayed by him, c) having him take part in a scheme a lot like the cloning project he severed ties with Zero over in the first place, and completely destroy the life of one of the soldiers under his command to do it, the treatment of soldiers he abhorred in MGS3. They repeat the words "phantom" and "parasite" a lot throughout the game, the end reveals that Venom Snake is a phantom and Big Boss is a parasite. Some legend. Mr. Fortitude posted:
2house2fly fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 13:03
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Real BB just glued on a fake horn back then.
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Dec 15, 2016 14:10
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Anyone have the fan comic of Venom being defeated by Snake and contacting boss to share a cigar with
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Dec 15, 2016 14:16
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Ambivalent posted:The whole point of Bravely Default is that you're supposed to be jarred into thinking for yourself instead of following the quest markers. You can reach the 'end' of the game like 1/4th through the first part of the story if you really want to. By the second time you're 'repeating' the game, it's started to lay on pretty heavy clues as to what you're actually doing wrong. Sinners Sandwich posted:Anyone have the fan comic of Venom being defeated by Snake and contacting boss to share a cigar with
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Dec 15, 2016 15:27
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Ambivalent posted:The whole point of Bravely Default is that you're supposed to be jarred into thinking for yourself instead of following the quest markers. You can reach the 'end' of the game like 1/4th through the first part of the story if you really want to. By the second time you're 'repeating' the game, it's started to lay on pretty heavy clues as to what you're actually doing wrong. That said, to get the true ending (which is really great and has an awesome boss fight), you have to do everything the loving fairy says for four full loops. Kinda goes against the title of the game, really. You just have to go all the way for the true ending, and there are only four loops at most. Really, though, doing all four loops is worth it just for the side quests and optional boss fights, in my opinion. THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Kinda funny that the game does a terrible job of setting this up. Venom was even betrayed by his "Country" the same way. Yeah, that's why most of my ideas for improving the story (y'know, not like that would ever happen, but throwing ideas around) are intended to emphasize this. It's a much, much stronger theme than anything having to do with Skullface's parasites, even if it doesn't lend itself to quite as many lofty speeches about language and culture. And Kojima just left it lying there on the floor! And I really think li'l Mantis would've been a much more interesting MacGuffin. The idea of a kid with insanely strong reality-bending psychic powers who is such a strong empath that he can't help but be taken over by people with strong negative emotions is the perfect "world-ending superweapon" for a game about Venom Snake being used as a puppet despite everyone seeing him as a legendary leader with this insane cult of personality--except it isn't his personality, and he's just a decoy, just like Kid Mantis's power isn't really his own and he's just being used as a puppet by whoever has the strongest desire for revenge. Plus, the focus on negative emotions could've played in nicely to the "men becoming demons" thing Kojima seemed to want to do, with Skullface and others embracing their worst impulses, their darkest feelings, to control Mantis. Like, "insanely powerful psychic kid can't control his powers and can be used to control military technology or mind-control an entire national military" would have been a way better plot than "parasites that kill you if you speak English."
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Dec 15, 2016 15:43
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Tbqh anything would be more interesting than "parasites that kill you if you speak English."
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Dec 15, 2016 16:11
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I thought they worked fine as a plot device since they just used it as a metaphor for colonialism. It's just that, like everything Kojima has ever written, he ends up relying on it way too much. Like, having language be a big plot point in a game that takes place in Africa is pretty fitting. Momomo fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 16:21
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the coolest line in the game was Skullface saying "I will exterminate the English language"
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Dec 15, 2016 16:56
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I was really hoping that my crazy theory about mgsv actually taking place like 2 decades later than its supposed to was true. And skullface was actually the Big Boss that solid flamethrowered.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:49
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Ambivalent posted:The whole point of Bravely Default is that you're supposed to be jarred into thinking for yourself instead of following the quest markers. You can reach the 'end' of the game like 1/4th through the first part of the story if you really want to. By the second time you're 'repeating' the game, it's started to lay on pretty heavy clues as to what you're actually doing wrong. I think you're misremembering. Airy wants you to wake up the crystal. She tells you to stop, not to never stop. To get the early ending you have to break a crystal by mashing after Airy tells you to stop. The characters know what is going on but the only way to really stop Airy is to let her complete enough of her plan that you can hop in and destroy the actual source. Destroying the crystals just fucks up the world in exchange for temporarily halting her plan. Also, you know, the ending where you follow Airy's instructions is the one that is explicitly the good ending where you stop the villain's plot and which leads directly into the game's sequel. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 19:01
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Snak posted:I was really hoping that my crazy theory about mgsv actually taking place like 2 decades later than its supposed to was true. And skullface was actually the Big Boss that solid flamethrowered. Del Toro is Solidus, now fat as a result of a life of leisure and decadence following his great victory. Death Stranding will be about addressing and finally healing the nightmare world (as seen in its early stages in Revengeance) that the "sticks" of the MGS saga created. "the next war really will be fought with sticks" - Venom. This game is about rejecting sticks in favour of binding ropes. Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 19:14
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I never knew how much I wanted Mads Mikkelsen as Revolver Ocelot until now.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:01
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So I've been playing this game quite a bit lately and am at the point where all I have left is S ranking a few missions and cleaning up mission objectives. I have to say that I've really come around on it and it's probably up there in my top three metal gear games at this point despite my initial distaste with the story. I feel like all it really needed was some type of explicit time jump in The Truth, or at least something more clear, and some tapes between Ahab and Ishmael. That fan comic that was floating around way earlier in the thread was dope and I think if that had been part of the game it'd have gone over a lot better.
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Dec 21, 2016 02:54
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There a lot of things where you can say that, had it been in the game, it would be better thing
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Dec 21, 2016 03:35
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Luna Was Here posted:There a lot of things where you can say that, had it been in the game, it would be better thing Yeah, those are just the ones that stick out to me at the moment. Theotus fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 03:43
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