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RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork


Fun Shoe

what is neofolk?

quote:

Neofolk is a form of folk music-inspired experimental music that emerged from post-industrial music circles. Neofolk can either be solely acoustic folk music or a blend of acoustic folk instrumentation aided by varieties of accompanying sounds such as pianos, strings and elements of industrial music and experimental music. The genre encompasses a wide assortment of themes including traditional music, heathenry, romanticism and occultism. Neofolk musicians often have ties to other genres such as neoclassical and martial industrial.

The term "neofolk" originates from esoteric music circles who started using the term in the late 20th century to describe music influenced by musicians such as Douglas Pearce (Death In June), Tony Wakeford (Sol Invictus) and David Tibet (Current 93) who had collaborated heavily for a period of time. These musicians were part of a post-industrial music circle who later on incorporated folk music based upon traditional and European elements into their sound. Folk musicians such as Vulcan's Hammer, Changes and Comus had created music with similar sounds and themes to Neofolk as far back as the 1960s. These musicians could be considered harbingers of the sound that later influenced the Neofolk artists. However, the distinction must be made that it was the aforementioned artists who were involved in the dark music scene throughout the 1980s and 1990s that contributed specifically to the emergence of Neofolk. Neofolk is seen by many as an extension of post-industrial music into the folk music genre which did not occur until the late 20th century.

The spirit of Neofolk contains parallels to the ideals of American and British folk movements of the 1960s. The basis of this music is built upon principles against commercialization and popular culture. However the themes of Neofolk and folk music are drastically different. A majority of artists within the Neofolk genre focus on archaic, cultural and literary references. Local traditions and indigenous beliefs tend to be portrayed heavily as well as esoteric and historical topics.

Of particular mention is Heathenry. This subject plays a large part in the thematic elements touched upon by many modern and original Neofolk artists. Runes, heathen European sites and other means of expressing an interest in the ancient and ancestral occurs often in Neofolk music. Aesthetically, references to this subject occur within band names, album artwork, clothing and various other means of artistic expression. This has led to some forefathers of the genre and current artists within the genre attributing it to being an aspect of a broader Heathen revival.

what are some good neofolk albums to start off with?



(^ dead can dance - within the realm of a dying sun ^)

(^ sol invictus - death of the west ^)

some youtube links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSOkp5Xr_4w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH72t3QJ3r4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2xl-RJBXVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDSi0EbDyIM

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A CRUNK BIRD
Sep 29, 2004


Grimey Drawer

Neofolk is good poo poo. David Tibet is my bud. Thanks OP

A CRUNK BIRD
Sep 29, 2004


Grimey Drawer

Swastikas for Noddy is being reissued soon btw, so definitely go to http://copticcat.com and preorder your copy today; you won't regret it.

Edit: parsed my drat link.

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork


Fun Shoe

A CRUNK BIRD posted:

Swastikas for Noddy is being reissued soon btw, so definitely go to http://copticcat.com and preorder your copy today; you won't regret it.

Edit: parsed my drat link.

oh poo poo thank you :o

flirty dental hygienist
Jul 24, 2007

All aboard the knuckle train to FIST PLANET!!


I like neofolk, but one thing that bothers me is the connection it seems to have to fascism and neo-nazi beliefs. I find a cool band I like, but then I feel like I have to google to see if they are supportive of that ideology. I know it shouldn't bother me so much, and most likely the bands use that imagery for shock value, but it still makes me feel weird when I listen to stuff like Death in June and Darkwood in public. Am I just overreacting, or are they some neofolk bands that really do have those beliefs? BTW, Of the Wand and the moon is another good band.

RISCy Business
Jun 17, 2015

bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork bork


Fun Shoe

Polegrinder posted:

I like neofolk, but one thing that bothers me is the connection it seems to have to fascism and neo-nazi beliefs. I find a cool band I like, but then I feel like I have to google to see if they are supportive of that ideology. I know it shouldn't bother me so much, and most likely the bands use that imagery for shock value, but it still makes me feel weird when I listen to stuff like Death in June and Darkwood in public. Am I just overreacting, or are they some neofolk bands that really do have those beliefs? BTW, Of the Wand and the moon is another good band.

i tend to disconnect an artist from their beliefs if they aren't blatant as gently caress about it in their music

for example i'll still listen to burzum even though varg calls himself a "nationalist"

flirty dental hygienist
Jul 24, 2007

All aboard the knuckle train to FIST PLANET!!


reddit liker posted:

i tend to disconnect an artist from their beliefs if they aren't blatant as gently caress about it in their music

for example i'll still listen to burzum even though varg calls himself a "nationalist"

OK, that is true. I guess the music doesn't define your personal beliefs. I'm not a satanist just because I like black metal.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



reddit liker posted:

i tend to disconnect an artist from their beliefs if they aren't blatant as gently caress about it in their music

I would say a lot of neofolk is very directly about the beliefs of the people involved in making it. in fact those beliefs and the use of a certain set of symbology are one of the defining characteristics of the genre. I mean musically speaking, an awful lot of it is just sort of gloomy acoustic guitar based music that follows fairly standard chord progressions and song structures that one can find in a number of genres - what sets it apart is, in part, the themes that it deals with, and the social/political/religious beliefs of the artists affect those themes to an enormous degree. So I don't think that disconnection can truly be made.

that said, just because an artist is using imagery associated with fascism or nordic neo-paganism or whatever does not necessarily mean they are actually a fascist... but there is still a strong connection to fascism and nationalism in this scene and there are definitely neofolk artists who are using music specifically to express fascist or nationalist beliefs.

A CRUNK BIRD
Sep 29, 2004


Grimey Drawer

David Tibet uses music to espouse pro-badger and pro-pangolin ideology

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



speaking of, no neofolk thread is complete without this

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



Soiled Meat

Not exactly Neofolk but since they ran in the same circles: Anyone heard anything about the rights to Coil's music/reissues?

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



Polegrinder posted:

I like neofolk, but one thing that bothers me is the connection it seems to have to fascism and neo-nazi beliefs. I find a cool band I like, but then I feel like I have to google to see if they are supportive of that ideology. I know it shouldn't bother me so much, and most likely the bands use that imagery for shock value, but it still makes me feel weird when I listen to stuff like Death in June and Darkwood in public. Am I just overreacting, or are they some neofolk bands that really do have those beliefs? BTW, Of the Wand and the moon is another good band.

the whole scene is really well known for being full of nazis. It's not quite on the level of martial industrial(which a lot of the same people make and listen to) but fairly bad. That applies to most industrial music to some degree though.

reddit liker posted:

i tend to disconnect an artist from their beliefs if they aren't blatant as gently caress about it in their music

for example i'll still listen to burzum even though varg calls himself a "nationalist"

most of the good neofolk guys are fairly blatant, or at least used to be. Old Sol Invictus has like direct quotes from Julius Evola and references to sunwheels and stuff. Tibet is an exception since I don't know if he was really ever really a fascist, he was definitely hanging out with some of them back in the day though.

Stravinsky
May 31, 2011



Polegrinder posted:

OK, that is true. I guess the music doesn't define your personal beliefs. I'm not a satanist just because I like black metal.

Black metal has really been removed from its roots recently becoming a favorite genre to mix with others to the point that I don't even associate satanism with it right off the bat anymore. Neofolk hasn't had that happen to it and is very much rooted in fascism/Nazi. Its ok if the personal ideology skeeves you out you do not have to agree with it.

Stravinsky
May 31, 2011



A CRUNK BIRD posted:

Swastikas for Noddy is being reissued soon btw, so definitely go to http://copticcat.com and preorder your copy today; you won't regret it.

Edit: parsed my drat link.

Cool

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



TOOT BOOT posted:

Not exactly Neofolk but since they ran in the same circles: Anyone heard anything about the rights to Coil's music/reissues?

as for the bulk of their discography there are a lot of dumb rumours about who owns those rights and what is happening to them, and I believe none of them.

however what is actually confirmed for real is that the original version of Backwards is actually going to be released, which is pretty awesome: http://www.post-punk.com/coil-backw...20-years-delay/

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



There's a new Sol Invictus album coming next year apparently, and you can listen to a demo version of one of the songs here: https://soundcloud.com/tonywakeford...le-13-will-come

not feeling it that much, it's closer to the older stuff than the previous album, which was the most interesting thing he's done in a while imo. It's an early version though, I'm sure the final song will be better.

babyturnsblue
Jun 14, 2007

i used to dance before the discos came


Polegrinder posted:

OK, that is true. I guess the music doesn't define your personal beliefs. I'm not a satanist just because I like black metal.

I try really hard not to like or support neofolk, but then I'll crave some Death in June and uhg... Nada! is so good.

Sanctum
Feb 14, 2005

Heilige Tod


I don't know where you all get this overt racism from. Like sure Douglas Pearce has a swastika tattooed on his hand, but then you listen to his older music like Crisis - "White Youth" and what do you make of that?

Unless you think he flip-flopped and became a racist, which I highly doubt.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



Sanctum posted:

I don't know where you all get this overt racism from. Like sure Douglas Pearce has a swastika tattooed on his hand, but then you listen to his older music like Crisis - "White Youth" and what do you make of that?

Unless you think he flip-flopped and became a racist, which I highly doubt.

it's not overt, that's the whole thing about neofolk that distinguishes it from outright RAC type stuff. Doug P has made comments about immigrants before though, he basically moved to Australia because he thinks it's more white than Europe is these days.

Dr. Video Games 0081
Jan 19, 2005


Douglas Pearce says pro-white nationalist poo poo in like every interview I've looked at. It's not okay. Additionally his music is largely repetitive, unengaging, and amateurish. Current 93 is glorious on the other hand and David Tibet will probably increasingly be seen as one of the great singer-songwriters of our time on the level of a Dylan or Cohen.

El Miguel
Oct 30, 2003


Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:

Current 93 is glorious on the other hand and David Tibet will probably increasingly be seen as one of the great singer-songwriters of our time on the level of a Dylan or Cohen.

Interesting and bold claims. I've always been curious about Current 93. What's a good starting point and/or best of?

Dr. Video Games 0081
Jan 19, 2005


There's a string of Current 93 albums starting with 2006's Black Ships Ate the Sky that I think can't be beat. Aleph at Hallucinatory Mountain; Baalstorm, Sing Omega; and Honeysuckle Aeons. They are all super good and seem to me to form a pretty coherent series. David Tibet has a side project to Current 93 called Myrninerest, and the album from that project, Jhonn Uttered Babylon is probably my favorite David Tibet thing all together. It's sort of a reflection on the deaths of Jhonn Balance of Coil and Sebastian Horsley--extremely good poo poo.

Borneo Jimmy
Feb 27, 2007

by Smythe


I like Blood Axis and Fire + Ice a lot even though those guys can get a little campy at times.

A CRUNK BIRD
Sep 29, 2004


Grimey Drawer

El Miguel posted:

Interesting and bold claims. I've always been curious about Current 93. What's a good starting point and/or best of?

Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre and Sleep Has His House are personal faves of mine but otherwise I'm in alignment with the esteemed Doctor of Video Games

A CRUNK BIRD
Sep 29, 2004


Grimey Drawer

Of Ruine was the C93 record that personally first really grabbed me and got me listening to more and more, so I'd maybe start there

Dr. Video Games 0081
Jan 19, 2005


Just to give some evidence for how good David Tibet is as a lyricist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In0nHSGvoxI

Celebrate the escalator and catnip pastures
Not liable to fire or disaster

Epic win lyrics

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:

Additionally his music is largely repetitive, unengaging, and amateurish.

It's always struck me that Doug P really needs someone to collaborate with to be much good, all the best Death In June stuff is the early material, where he's got Wakeford or Patrick Leagas or Tibet helping him out, once it's down to just him it gets worse and at this point he's just repeating the same crap over again.

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

That's unfair to the guy ,so much of this genre is collaborative. Plus he kinda invented it, no?

Folk, folklore are completely nationalist ideas. Neofolk is sometimes pretty smart so they sing about big things like nation and/or religion. Better things for a grown up to worry about than most of what people sing about, love or feeling sad or how capitalism is unfair or how war is bad. if I were those guys I'd sing about hitler way more. Nationalism basically is the lifeblood of all arts.

SixSixSix is I think the best introductory C93 record since it's so diverse. Someone may be disappointed when they listen to for example Aleph and then learn its a kind of a singular work.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



loga mira posted:

Better things for a grown up to worry about than most of what people sing about, love or feeling sad or how capitalism is unfair or how war is bad.

Those are all perfectly valid things for someone to sing about. Not to mention that nationalism is a relatively recent concept, far more so than most of the pagan ideas that neofolk tends to incorporate, so the claim that it's the lifeblood of all arts is ridiculous. If you talked to a ancient celt about the nation he'd be looking at you funny.

A human heart fucked around with this message at Sep 21, 2015 around 22:45

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

Ancient kelp wouldn't know that it's ancient and wouldn't care about it, because the idea of ancientness as conclusively legitimizing is also nationalist. Or religious. Or from marketing perspective.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



What is that supposed to mean?

Snowy
Oct 6, 2010

A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense





Fun Shoe

loga mira posted:

Ancient kelp

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

A human heart posted:

What is that supposed to mean?

When you say "Celts" today you think mainly of imagery popularized through works of Irish and British nationalist artists. Artists disdained by Joyce I must add, this poem has a decidedly *neofolk* feel

...
But I must not accounted be
One of that mumming company
With him who hies him to appease
His giddy dames' frivolities
While they console him when he whinges
With gold-embroidered Celtic fringes
Or him who sober all the day
Mixes a naggin in his play
Or him whose conduct 'seems to own'
His preference for a man of 'tone'
Or him who plays the ragged patch
To millionaires in Hazelpatch
But weeping after holy fast
Confesses all his pagan past
Or him who will his hat unfix
Neither to malt nor crucifix
But show to all that poor-dressed be
His high Castilian courtesy
Or him who loves his Master dear
Or him who drinks his pint in fear
Or him who once when snug abed
Saw Jesus Christ without his head

and so on. There also is a mention of Mammon

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



loga mira posted:

Folk, folklore are completely nationalist ideas.

wtf? Folk music and folklore predate the existence of nationalism by a very long time.

loga mira posted:

When you say "Celts" today you think mainly of imagery popularized through works of Irish and British nationalist artists.

Maybe some people do, but a lot of people are well aware of the fact that the Celts originated in central Europe, occupied many regions of Europe (and even Asia Minor) and influenced a wide variety of cultures. There are still plenty of references to Celts and Celtic culture that have nothing at all to do with Irish or British nationalism, or with Ireland or Britain at all.

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

Not really. Folk culture exists only in a nationalizing state as a neutered and unified amalgamation of many different traditions, customs, atrs, crafts, symbols... Celts didnt know they were celts, they knew what village they were from etc.

Werent you in the ukraine theread when I was posting in it? Must look weird a guy popping up in random threads talking about this poo poo.

I've always though Grebenschekov could've been cool had he not become something of a celebrity. A lot of his stuff is also "neofolk" in character, esotericism, lingering nationalist melancholia, folkish stylisations. Russian Album is the most obvious example, but his most recent album also has some of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqLo-8NgIuo

When you're in Moscow think better than to speak of holy things
Or else those who are meek as pigeons will take ahold of you,
Those who have not sinned will saddle you,
Ministers of love will strike you into the ground with their cross.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



loga mira posted:

Not really. Folk culture exists only in a nationalizing state as a neutered and unified amalgamation of many different traditions, customs, atrs, crafts, symbols... Celts didnt know they were celts, they knew what village they were from etc.

They didn't always use the word "Celts" of course and have gone under a number of different names, but the idea of Celts as a group of cultures and languages certainly existed - and continues to exist - outside of Britain or Ireland, and folk music has definitely existed outside of and prior to nationalism.

And also you can literally travel to tons of places in continental Europe where you can visit the sites of Celtic ruins, see Celtic artifacts, and read about the history of the various Celtic tribes who lived in those regions, and that poo poo has nothing at all to do with Britain or Ireland.

caligulamprey
Jan 23, 2007

It never stops.

Almost every song posted here sounds like The Frogs, but without all the jokes about gay sex. I dig it.

A CRUNK BIRD
Sep 29, 2004


Grimey Drawer

Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:

Just to give some evidence for how good David Tibet is as a lyricist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In0nHSGvoxI

Celebrate the escalator and catnip pastures
Not liable to fire or disaster

Epic win lyrics

This song is so incredibly good

I like the spheres 2 take better though

A CRUNK BIRD fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2015 around 06:30

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

For people curious about Current 93 i've always preferred to recommend a live album. "All dolled up like christ" or "How i devoured apocalypse balloon" in particular.
You get a broad range of songs and I've personally always liked the live versions better than studio.

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A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



Apocalypse Balloon has that version of sleep has his house where Tibet gets so emotional that you can hear him start to cry while singing the song, it's really cool.

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