|
What is Worm? A web serial by Wildbow, totaling at 1.2 million words or so, Worm is the story of a girl who wants to be a hero but becomes a villain. A tale full of twists and turns, not heroes and not villains, Worm has many, many fans on forums like Sufficient Velocity and Space Battles, appealing to the baser nature of "what if though?" and a main character whose power seems useless at first. Who am I? No matter where you're reading this, I'm some idiot on a forum. However, I have read Worm about two and a half times, up to a certain point. I've read enough of it to really understand its themes, and know more about it then any normal person would ever want to know. And lord of lords, do I hate it. But it's so good though! It's certainly a decent web serial, but it's not a good narrative work. I'll explain why around Arc 20, which is 300,000 words into this clusterfuck of nonsense. Rules of Engagement: 1. I will read Worm. 2. I will post about reading Worm. 3. Spoilers are not only allowed, they are encouraged. Use tags if you like, I don't care. 4. Mockery is the name of the game, because Worm is not very good. 5. You are allowed to respond to my complaints! Please try to word them in such a way outside of "lol ur dumb + gay", because that is not a response, that is just saying something and expecting me to understand it. 6. Mercy Ruling: If at any point, I look like I am enjoying Worm, I must stop reading Worm for at least a month. And now, let's get this show on the road. quote:Arc 1.01: Gestation Quick note: Worm uses a weird way to write. Each 'arc' is basically a novella - or more - with a bookend that explains a bit about what the gently caress was going on. quote:Brief note from the author: This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. Remember that if you are the type of person who enjoys happy events at all, you should probably not read Worm. Nobody in this is ever happy. quote:Class ended in five minutes and all I could think was, an hour is too long for lunch. I find it to be rather short, to be honest. quote:Since the start of the semester, I had been looking forward to the part of Mr. Gladly’s World Issues class where we’d start discussing capes. Now that it had finally arrived, I couldn’t focus. I fidgeted, my pen moving from hand to hand, tapping, or absently drawing some figure in the corner of the page to join the other doodles. My eyes were restless too, darting from the clock above the door to Mr. Gladly and back to the clock. I wasn’t picking up enough of his lesson to follow along. Twenty minutes to twelve; five minutes left before class ended. I will say this for Worm; Wildbow knows how to burn words. But he does so in a very, very clever way - its a trick of first person. You can use 250 words to say what 5 would, and justify it with "She's a smart and intelligent character!" quote:He struck me as one of the ‘popular’ kids who had become a teacher. He probably thought he was everyone’s favorite. I wondered how he’d react if he heard my opinion on the subject. Would it shatter his self image or would he shrug it off as an anomaly from the gloomy girl that never spoke up in class? He's also very good at writing an angsty teenager, but that's never a positive. quote:I glanced over my shoulder. Madison Clements sat two rows to my left and two seats back. She saw me looking and smirked, her eyes narrowing, and I lowered my eyes to my notebook. I tried to ignore the ugly, sour feeling that stewed in my stomach. I glanced up at the clock. Eleven-forty-three. Characters introduced who are irrelevant to the narrative despite all that indicators saying otherwise: 2. quote:“Let me wrap up here,” Mr. Gladly said, “Sorry, guys, but there is homework for the weekend. Think about capes and how they’ve impacted the world around you. Make a list if you want, but it’s not mandatory. On Monday we’ll break up into groups of four and see what group has the best list. I’ll buy the winning group treats from the vending machine.” Unnecessary paragraphs, and a style that seems far more suited to Omniscient Third then First? Worm always knows how to really grab the reader, by having the first chapter be nearly 3,000 words and having the balls and gumption to tell us all about the excruciating minutiae of an angsty teenager's high school life. quote:Madison was talking with her friends. She was popular, but not gorgeous in the way the stereotypical popular girls on TV were. She was ‘adorable’, instead. Petite. She played up the image with sky blue pins in her shoulder length brown hair and a cutesy attitude. Madison wore a strapless top and denim skirt, which seemed absolutely moronic to me given the fact that it was still early enough in the spring that we could see our breath in the mornings. If only more people were like our main character, who is pure and delicate, like a flower in the sun. Truly she is both noble, honorable, and the most amazing person who ever walked the face of the Earth. quote:As soon as there was a free stall, I let myself in and locked the door. I leaned against the wall and exhaled slowly. It wasn’t quite a sigh of relief. Relief implied you felt better. I wouldn’t feel better until I got home. No, I just felt less uneasy. I wouldn't mind the opening chapter if Worm was a detailed Slice of Life novel about a shy introverted girl who becomes outgoing and super cool, instead of a gritty superhero story. Because I just straight up made like a pastry maker and glazed over half of this. quote:“Occupied,” I called out, hesitantly. "She's my favorite member of the Spice Girls!" quote:then in response to something another girl whispered, I barely heard her add, “Yeah, do it!” I know that the high school I went too was totally okay with extensive, ridiculous campaigns against a single person. Every bullied kid at my school was naturally picked on by groups of ten or more, while everyone else watched and egged them on because that is 100% How People Act. I'll go into detail on Wildbow's creepy worldview later, because it's mildly terrifying. quote:It ran down the back of my neck, soaked my clothes, fizzed as it ran through my hair. I pushed against the door again, but the girl on the other side was braced against it with her body. I've read Worm before, so let me let you in on something for all you newcomers: None of this matters at all. None of this is relevant in any way, shape, or form except tangentially. Two of the characters in this sequence aren't even nearly as important as one of them and spoilers - that one character has more effect on Taylor, despite having no relationship to her, not being the type of person to care about her, and only bullies her because THE WEAK ARE MEAT FOR THE STRONG TO EAT. Thanks Worm, I too enjoy deeply intrinsic moral characters such as this. quote:The door swung open, and I glared up at the three girls. Madison, Sophia and Emma. Where Madison was cute, a late bloomer, Sophia and Emma were the types of girls that fit the ‘prom queen’ image. Sophia was dark skinned, with a slender, athletic build she’d developed as a runner on the school track team. Red-headed Emma, by contrast, had all the curves the guys wanted. She was good looking enough to get occasional jobs as a amateur model for the catalogs that the local department stores and malls put out. The three of them were laughing like it was the funniest thing in the world, but the sounds of their amusement barely registered with me. My attention was on the faint roar of blood pumping in my ears and an urgent, ominous crackling ‘sound’ that wouldn’t get any quieter or less persistent if I covered my ears with my hands. I could feel dribbles running down my arms and back, still chilled from the refrigerated vending machines. This happens a lot with Worm. Characters are only vaguely described, so that you have very little of a picture in your head of what anyone looks like, at all. And for a novel about superheroes, you can imagine how fun that gets with costumes! quote:I didn’t trust myself to say something that wouldn’t give them fodder to taunt me with, so I kept silent. The backpack is my current favorite character, because I know what it looks like. quote:I approached the sink and stared at myself in the scratched, stained mirror that was bolted above it. I had inherited a thin lipped, wide, expressive mouth from my mother, but my large eyes and my gawky figure made me look a lot more like my dad. My dark hair was soaked enough that it clung to my scalp, neck and shoulders. I was wearing a brown hooded sweatshirt over a green t-shirt, but colored blotches of purple, red and orange streaked both. My glasses were beaded with the multicolored droplets of juice and soda. A drip ran down my nose and fell from the tip to land in the sink. I think I made Taylor once when I was playing Morrowind. quote:
Counting to ten is how I always recover from organized attacks on me by 12 people. quote:An inarticulate scream of fury and frustration escaped my lips, and I kicked the plastic bucket that sat just beneath the sink, sending it and the toilet brush inside flying into the wall. When that wasn’t enough, I pulled off my backpack and used a two-handed grip to hurl it. I wasn’t using my locker anymore: certain individuals had vandalized or broken into it on four different occasions. My bag was heavy, loaded down with everything I’d anticipated needing for the day’s classes. It crunched audibly on impact with the wall.  Hey Wildbow, what do you think your Superhero Novel about saving the entire multiverse should open with? A small scale fight? Against robbers or something? No way! A ludicrously elaborate campaign that seems more like a drug raid then anything else is the perfect opener! Are you sure? That seems- You dare to question me, the creator?! Truly it is the most innovative and clever way to open it. I'll make sure that nothing interesting happens at all!quote:I didn’t even know what I was supposed to do for my afternoon classes. Our midterm project for art was due, and I couldn’t go to class like this. Sophia would be there, and I could just imagine her smug smile of satisfaction as I showed up looking like I’d botched an attempt to tie-dye everything I owned. Oh no, did she bring a gun?! quote:I shut my eyes and felt the buzzing crystallize into concrete information. As numerous as stars in the night sky, tiny knots of intricate data filled the area around me. I could focus on each one in turn, pick out details. The clusters of data had been reflexively drifting towards me since I was first splashed in the face. They responded to my subconscious thoughts and emotions, as much of a reflection of my frustration, my anger, my hatred for those three girls as my pounding heart and trembling hands were. I could make them stop or direct them to move almost without thinking about it, the same way I could raise an arm or twitch a finger. Stop or direct them with a gun!? quote:I opened my eyes. I could feel adrenaline thrumming through my body, blood coursing in my veins. I shivered in response to the chilled soft drinks and juices the trio had poured over me, with anticipation and with just a little fear. On every surface of the bathroom were bugs; Flies, ants, spiders, centipedes, millipedes, earwigs, beetles, wasps and bees. With every passing second, more streamed in through the open window and the various openings in the bathroom, moving with surprising speed. Some crawled in through a gap where the sink drain entered the wall while others emerged from the triangular hole in the ceiling where a section of foam tile had broken off, or from the opened window with peeling paint and cigarette butts squished out in the recesses. They gathered around me and spread out over every available surface; primitive bundles of signals and responses, waiting for further instruction. That's a ludicrous number of bugs to be here inside of a school. Also yes, Taylor can control bugs. It is the weakest power. quote:It would be so easy, so easy to just go Carrie on the school. To give the trio their just desserts and make them regret what they had put me through: the vicious e-mails, the trash they’d upended over my desk, the flute –my mother’s flute– they’d stolen from my locker. It wasn’t just them either. Other girls and a small handful of boys had joined in, ‘accidentally’ skipping over me when passing out assignment handouts, adding their own voices to the taunts and the flood of nasty emails, to get the favor and attention of three of the prettier and more popular girls in our grade. I'm pretty sure the phrase "Organized Attack by half the student body" means that you'd probably be justified, and get let off with a warning. Like, 200 hours of community service. quote:Except I was better than that. Lies told in this chapter: 12. quote:With a sigh, I sent an instruction to the gathered swarm. Disperse. The word wasn’t as important as the idea behind it. They began to exit the room, disappearing into the cracks in the tile and through the open window. I walked over to the door and stood with my back to it so nobody could stumble onto the scene before the bugs were all gone. The weakest power. quote:However much I wanted to, I couldn’t really follow through. Even as I trembled with humiliation, I managed to convince myself to pick up my backpack and head down the hall. I made my way out of the school, ignoring the stares and giggles from everyone I walked past, and caught the first bus that headed in the general direction of home. The chill of early spring compounded the discomfort of my soaked hair and clothes, making me shiver. Skipping school is okay as long as you are the target of a bullying campaign, and the most noble and heroic person of all time, ever, forever. quote:I was going to be a superhero. That was the goal I used to calm myself down at moments like these. It was what I used to make myself get out of bed on a school day. It was a crazy dream that made things tolerable. It was something to look forward to, something to work towards. It made it possible to keep from dwelling on the fact that Emma Barnes, leader of the trio, had once been my best friend. I like to refer to Emma as "not narratively relevant". After the atrocity that is the opening, I'm going to do it in probably 1,000 word fragments. There's no need for everyone to see all the hilariously bad minutiae of An Ordinary High School Life (but with bullying). It also hurts me inside to read this much of Worm at once.
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 00:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:33 |
|
|
Let's not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:34
|
|
|
It's nowhere near bad enough to justify this (apparent) obsessive hate of it and really if you're going to be critiquing a writing style you should try to do so in a way that is less annoying than the subject matter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
Your commentary is terrible. I like Worm, but I can admit it has it's flaws. This touches on none of them. 1. Much of your criticism stems from what you call unnecessary paragraphs and excessive wordiness. It's a goddamn story, not an engineering report. It's allowed to use more words than necessary to set the scene. It's not flaunting her intelligence, it's describing the scene, allowing you to envision what's happening better. Certain later chapters with far less intelligent viewpoint characters have the same general descriptive style, so it most definitely is just a Wildbow thing, not a "omg shes so speshul and intelligent!" thing. Furthermore, I feel that taking away what you would call excessive words seriously detracts from the scene being set. Please compare: quote:Since the start of the semester, I had been looking forward to the part of Mr. Gladly’s World Issues class where we’d start discussing capes. Now that it had finally arrived, I couldn’t focus. I fidgeted, my pen moving from hand to hand, tapping, or absently drawing some figure in the corner of the page to join the other doodles. My eyes were restless too, darting from the clock above the door to Mr. Gladly and back to the clock. I wasn’t picking up enough of his lesson to follow along. Twenty minutes to twelve; five minutes left before class ended. with quote:I've been looking forward to class since the start of the semester. Now, I can't focus. Mr. Gladly is an enthusiastic teacher, but shows favoritism. Furthermore, irrelevant characters are allowed to be introduced. Not everyone has to be a worldshaking badass. You are allowed to describe an rear end in a top hat deli clerk in a work of fiction and have them never show up again, if it helps the reader further their understanding of the viewpoint character. In this case, the introduction of the bullies is because the main character has a severe bullying issue. The bullying issue ends up being incredibly important to Taylor's character, so it makes sense we would see the ones who caused the issue in the first place. Show, don't tell is a basic rule of fiction. 2. You don't like the main character. That's fine, people are allowed to dislike a character. You, however, seem to go beyond dislike. From your commentary, I'm getting the sense that you feel personally offended that someone dared to portay an angsty teenager. Taylor is a very flawed person, and I'm sure that everyone who's read Worm will agree. But I don't think it's the sort of fanfiction Mary Sue bullshit you portray it as. In this part of the story, she's just a girl with severe bullying and self-esteem issues. Normal emotional reactions are given. 3.You don't understand bullying. Dude, people can be terrible, and just because you grew up in a relatively nice area, or had a relatively nice school, doesn't mean everyone had the same experience. Taylor specifically goes to generic lovely underfunded american inner city public school high school. You really can't see teachers, or anyone in power showing favoritism for the popular kids they like over the withdrawn, quiet ones? Especially when quite a bit of money is on the line for said people in power? The way Wildbow wrote it, Taylor's issues stem partially from class issues, showing how rich douchebags are able to get away with more poo poo than your average working class plebe is sadly exactly how it works in the real world. It is very specifically 3 people that mainly bully Taylor, this is why they are given names and short descriptions, much as you harp on about unnecessary characters. Any others in the scene are usually being onlookers, and sometimes minor accomplices, but not the main tormentors. Also, counting to 10 to calm down after an emotionally difficult event is a surprisingly common tactic, as quiet, withdrawn kids freaking the gently caress out emotionally tends to get the cops called on them after Columbine. Even if the cops aren't called, excessive displays of emotion will usually get you labeled crazy or dangerous by your fellow students. It will also serve to encourage the bullies who will be delighted that they managed to pull such a reaction out of you, as that is the entire point of bullying. 4. There are many characters in Worm. By the end, it has quite a large cast list. I feel that characterizing all of them as simple as THE WEAK ARE MEAT FOR THE STRONG TO EAT is unfair to the author. 5. Why is Worm starting on a small scale a problem? I find the drug raid fairly interesting. Not every story has to start with the character saving a city or something. Literally every hero starts somewhere. 6. Who gives a gently caress if controlling bugs is a weak power? Are you allergic to anything that isn't two incredibly buff men screaming about their FEELINGS while tossing BUILDINGS and shooting LASERS? Settings are allowed to have low power levels, dude. Besides, Worm is about how people with weak powers can use them creatively to compete in weight classes far above what they should be able to. It's unique in that respect. From your avatar, it seems you like Anime. Therefore, I shall use an Anime reference. Worm's powerlevels are closer to that of the later JoJo's Bizarre adventure parts than DBZ. It's about people using creativity and weird powers to beat opponents. 7. So a kid skips out on half of school after being bullied, and that's suddenly worse than what happened to her? What the gently caress man? Would you just have her sit through the rest of her classes soaked in that stuff? Her reaction is entirely reasonable for literally anyone. Stop with the whole noble and heroic person bullshit. No one in the story believes that poo poo, not even Taylor. 8. You dislike that everything isn't described in extreme minutia, but rather that the author only describes the physical attributes of the character that the viewpoint character, Taylor, is currently noticing. Also, first you complain about excessive detail when setting a scene, but not enough detail when envisioning a character. Why is that? It feels like you just look for things to hate. I feel Wildbow gives us enough information to visualize characters without going into it excessively. In short, your commentary is far, far more horrible than Worm. Worm has many flaws and pacing issues. Taylor is an extremely flawed character. But you quite frankly aren't even far in enough to touch on anything, so you harp on about stupid poo poo and make yourself look like a retard, which retroactively makes any legitimate criticisms you make in the future less valid. Globofglob fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 03:59
|
|
|
Globofglob posted:Your commentary is terrible. I like Worm, but I can admit it has it's flaws. This touches on none of them. The problem I have with Madison and Gladly is that neither of them matter at all, period. Madison could be flat out dropped from the entire story and nothing would change, and Gladly could be swapped out with any number of incompetent authority figures - Worm has more then enough of those. The bullying also doesn't matter; at all. Period. The entire thing could be taken out and nothing would change. We don't need to be shown that she's bullied, and it doesn't make you feel attached to the main character that your first interaction with her is one of the more vicious bullying instances I've seen or read - and I've seen some pretty hosed up stuff from bullies. quote:2. You don't like the main character. That's fine, people are allowed to dislike a character. You, however, seem to go beyond dislike. From your commentary, I'm getting the sense that you feel personally offended that someone dared to portay an angsty teenager. Taylor is a very flawed person, and I'm sure that everyone who's read Worm will agree. But I don't think it's the sort of fanfiction Mary Sue bullshit you portray it as. In this part of the story, she's just a girl with severe bullying and self-esteem issues. Normal emotional reactions are given. Taylor is 100% a Mary Sue. Characters who are described as intelligent, logical, and powerful get their asses handed to her in the most half-assed manner imaginable. Lung breathes fire. quote:3.You don't understand bullying. Dude, people can be terrible, and just because you grew up in a relatively nice area, or had a relatively nice school, doesn't mean everyone had the same experience. Taylor specifically goes to generic lovely underfunded american inner city public school high school. You really can't see teachers, or anyone in power showing favoritism for the popular kids they like over the withdrawn, quiet ones? Especially when quite a bit of money is on the line for said people in power? The way Wildbow wrote it, Taylor's issues stem partially from class issues, showing how rich douchebags are able to get away with more poo poo than your average working class plebe is sadly exactly how it works in the real world. The first thing my principal said at freshman orientation was "Now I know we have a serious drug problem". Cheers on throwing that out, though. In addition, Taylor's bullying is totally and completely irrelevant in every way, shape, and form. It doesn't matter. It's only there to show that all authority figures are bad, because that's what Worm's central message is; authority sucks, you suck, and everyone else sucks just as much as you do. Also something about the inherent evil of man? And you're a straight up dumbass if you don't think that after the absolute insanity that was her trigger event authorities wouldn't investigate. Like, that poo poo isn't remotely possible; they wouldn't have given up until they'd found an actual culprit because that's serious sociopathy and an insane level of attack against an adult, let alone a child. Even at my ridiculous school where there was organized bullying, there were maybe one or two fights a year - not "we shoved you in a locker with biohazardous waste and left you there for three hours". quote:4. There are many characters in Worm. By the end, it has quite a large cast list. I feel that characterizing all of them as simple as THE WEAK ARE MEAT FOR THE STRONG TO EAT is unfair to the author. I was referring to Sophia. That is literally her entire characterization. quote:5. Why is Worm starting on a small scale a problem? I find the drug raid fairly interesting. Not every story has to start with the character saving a city or something. Literally every hero starts somewhere. It's uninteresting to start at an event that doesn't matter. The bullying is irrelevant. It literally does not effect the course of events. The only reason Taylor is bullied is so that way there's an easy justification for her to mistrust everyone, forever. quote:6. Who gives a gently caress if controlling bugs is a weak power? Are you allergic to anything that isn't two incredibly buff men screaming about their FEELINGS while tossing BUILDINGS and shooting LASERS? Settings are allowed to have low power levels, dude. Besides, Worm is about how people with weak powers can use them creatively to compete in weight classes far above what they should be able to. It's unique in that respect. Much like Taylor, you failed to see the point. Taylor's power is by no way, shape, or form, weak. She filled a high school bathroom with bugs in seconds. That's ridiculously powerful, and the fact that the narrative portrays it as weak is silly as hell. Worm's powerlevels are nowhere near Jojo, are you high? Worm ends with multiversal combat across six different worlds and its midpoint involves a group of like fifteen people versus 9000 of the strongest evil characters in the 'verse. Calling it Jojo is a discredit to both Jojo, and Worm. For you, I'll also use an anime comparison. Taylor is about as weak as loving Josuke. It's a power that appears weak, but isn't at all, because it's ridiculously broken. Except, unlike in Diamond is Not Crash, Wildbow repeatedly states that Taylor's power is weak. She calls it weak all the loving time. It's like one of the few things she says up to the time skip that is just factually incorrect. quote:7. So a kid skips out on half of school after being bullied, and that's suddenly worse than what happened to her? What the gently caress man? Would you just have her sit through the rest of her classes soaked in that stuff? Her reaction is entirely reasonable for literally anyone. Stop with the whole noble and heroic person bullshit. No one in the story believes that poo poo, not even Taylor. Taylor spends 15 arcs saying how she's only doing it because it's the Right Thing. quote:8. You dislike that everything isn't described in extreme minutia, but rather that the author only describes the physical attributes of the character that the viewpoint character, Taylor, is currently noticing. Also, first you complain about excessive detail when setting a scene, but not enough detail when envisioning a character. Why is that? It feels like you just look for things to hate. I feel Wildbow gives us enough information to visualize characters without going into it excessively. I'd rather hear about what someone loving looks like then Taylor waxing lyrical about the color of the concrete. I still don't know what color Legend's outfit is, or what he's wearing outside of "Spandex and a helmet with a cape". quote:In short, your commentary is far, far more horrible than Worm. Worm has many flaws and pacing issues. Taylor is an extremely flawed character. But you quite frankly aren't even far in enough to touch on anything, so you harp on about stupid poo poo and make yourself look like a retard, which retroactively makes any legitimate criticisms you make in the future less valid. Taylor's about as flawed as a diamond.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 04:41
|
|
|
OP, if I wrote a 5000 page post comprised entirely of the word gently caress, would you go through it line by line and post insipid comments?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
Mazzletoff posted:The problem I have with Madison and Gladly is that neither of them matter at all, period. Madison could be flat out dropped from the entire story and nothing would change, and Gladly could be swapped out with any number of incompetent authority figures - Worm has more then enough of those. The bullying also doesn't matter; at all. Period. The entire thing could be taken out and nothing would change. We don't need to be shown that she's bullied, and it doesn't make you feel attached to the main character that your first interaction with her is one of the more vicious bullying instances I've seen or read - and I've seen some pretty hosed up stuff from bullies. Gladly is the only incompetent authority that's appropriate for the day-to-day school setting. Of the authorities at the school, we have Principal Blackwell, Sophia's unnamed caretaker, and Mr.Gladly. There are other random teachers mentioned, but Gladly was chosen to be the stand in for "Teacher that doesn't give a poo poo". Blackwell can't really be used, as principals don't teach classes and have daily interactions with the same students. They might walk around and say hi, sure, but not as in depth as a teacher. Blackwell doesn't quite fit. Who would you swap out for Gladly? Or would you just get rid of the first chapter entirely? Mazzletoff posted:Taylor is 100% a Mary Sue. Characters who are described as intelligent, logical, and powerful get their asses handed to her in the most half-assed manner imaginable. Lung breathes fire. Yep. Lung breathes fire. Shall we review all situations in which it's have Lung vs. Taylor? 1. First time, first few chapters. Taylor gets in a sneak attack before he can transform. Lung's one weakness is he needs time to transform, so sneak attacks are pretty much the only way to fight the guy. Once he transformed, he was going to wreck Taylor's poo poo before the Undersiders came to the rescue. 2. Second time. Lung was more ready, but Skitter wasn't alone. This was the Gang coalition fight, where it was Skitter, Kaiser, Sundancer, Bitch's dogs, Fenja, and Menja vs. Lung. In this fight, it's clear that it is a team effort to bring him down. Taylor only won because she shoved Newter's drugs in his eye socket via delivery bug while he was distracted. I find it's relatively believable that he did not attack a lone fly with fire breath, as Taylor's swarms could do nothing to him in his transformed state, and had been doing nothing the entire battle. In his mind, he had already won, so he let his guard down. Newter's drugs are shown to be incredibly potent, and Lung does not have any sort of drug resistance, only scales which prevent bugs from stinging. He does not have scales on his eyes. I do think Taylor should've be slapped for her lovely one-liner afterwards though. As for the Mary-Sue thing, Taylor might be incredibly powerful, but Mary-Sue's have one more thing they need. They need to be liked, they need to be perfect. The only one who thinks Taylor's perfect is Taylor, and maybe the rest of the Undersides. Even that illusion disintegrates by the end. To literally everyone who isn't Taylor or her inner circle, she's an insanely brutal warlord who rules through fear. She's always watching for any hint of wrongdoing through her bugs, and shows no remorse for acts such as torture (the scene with the bullet ants and the gangers) or mutilation (Lung's eyes, Valefor's maggot-filled eyes). It's easy to get caught up in Taylor's viewpoint, but the girl is legitimately insane, and her best friends are completely broken people. I would argue that as the story goes on, and she gets more and more brutal, you are meant to start questioning her actions. She may be enforcing order, and she takes care of orphans, but her territory is literally a police-state run by an excessively brutal dictator. By the end, she is literally a complete monster. She's far from perfect. She isn't liked, she's feared by most. Taylor is a legit terrible person. Mazzletoff posted:The first thing my principal said at freshman orientation was "Now I know we have a serious drug problem". Cheers on throwing that out, though. The authorities did investigate, though, and it was a huge deal; It was higher authorities that shut it down, because it was inconvenient to the Protectorate to deal with the loss of face that punishing Sophia and outing her as a Ward would cause. It would reflect badly on literal superheroes, who are, setting wise, basically Military+FBI+Cops combined. Can you see why they would not allow this to happen? Furthermore, the school would lose money, and Emma's dad, a lawyer, threatened to sue, because there was really no evidence pointing to the girls other than Taylor's testimony. They did end up paying her medical bills as hush money, if I remember correctly. If something happened in the real world, the equivalent would be some sort of undercover Cop/FBI/CIA agent doing the bullying and punishing them would harm their cover, so they have a few lawyers come around to alternately shove money at the victim and threaten the school until they shut up. People in power do horrible things all the time; I believe most of the British Government was outed in a Pedo scandal recently, but not much action was taken on that front. Mazzletoff posted:I was referring to Sophia. That is literally her entire characterization. Yes, I'm aware. The line after it, "deeply intrinsic moral characters such as this", is also being referred to. I agree that Sophia's characterization is weak, though it can be argued that her Shard is what made her that way. However, not all of them are as weakly defined as Sophia. Mazzletoff posted:It's uninteresting to start at an event that doesn't matter. The bullying is irrelevant. It literally does not effect the course of events. The only reason Taylor is bullied is so that way there's an easy justification for her to mistrust everyone, forever. I would argue that it does, in that it's what caused her to develop her power and it shows how isolated she is from everyone else. If she wasn't bullied, she wouldn't have her powers. If you are referring to the bullying in this part of the chapter, that is so that we know why she acts the way she does, and why she reacts so strongly to the info that Sophia is Shadow Stalker, and ultimately turns her entirely away from the protectorate. Even though she had managed to alienate Armsmaster by the time of the bank robbery, she hadn't truly let go of the hero thing until she saw Shadow Stalker's identity after Leviathan. I feel it would be a lot weaker if the author had just said "Oh yeah she was bullied" as a throwaway line, rather than showing it to us. Mazzletoff posted:Much like Taylor, you failed to see the point. Taylor's power is by no way, shape, or form, weak. She filled a high school bathroom with bugs in seconds. That's ridiculously powerful, and the fact that the narrative portrays it as weak is silly as hell. Worm's powerlevels are nowhere near Jojo, are you high? Worm ends with multiverse combat across six different worlds and its midpoint involves a group of like fifteen people versus 9000 of the strongest evil characters in the 'verse. Calling it Jojo is a discredit to both Jojo, and Worm. I meant it was somewhat like JoJo in that characters have to use their powers somewhat intelligently to do things, rather than just punch and scream. Even Josuke has to do some pretty creative stuff to win, he didn't just scream at Kira DBZ style and win. It's weak in the sense that capes are usually ludicrously overpowered. Everyone knows the villain with the bug powers. It's a trope used everywhere in fiction. Here's proof. http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Insect_Manipulation The thing is, usually, it's portrayed as a somewhat weak power. The villain(it's always a villain) is generally somewhat competent, but always loses to the hero,who usually has what worm refers to as an Alexandria Package or some variation thereof. Sometimes lasers are involved. The point is, he takes a well-used power, always portrayed as somewhat weak, and puts a new spin on it by having the protagonist get somewhat creative with it. This creativity reminds me of JoJo, which is the only other piece of fiction I've seen where character's use unusual powers in creative ways on a regular basis. When people think of a strong superpower, they think of something like Superman. Bug control is not what most people envision. It's portrayed as a weak power, because when I think of someone who has bug control powers, I think of someone who gets rear end whipped after causing a moderate inconvenience. Most people don't think of the terror Taylor eventually becomes. Mazzletoff posted:Taylor spends 15 arcs saying how she's only doing it because it's the Right Thing. Yep, flimsy justification that eventually falls apart and one that none except her, the Undersiders, and the people who are directly benefiting from it ever believe. By the end, even she manages to admit she hosed up. Considering her powers of self-deception, it's impressive. Mazzletoff posted:I'd rather hear about what someone loving looks like then Taylor waxing lyrical about the color of the concrete. I still don't know what color Legend's outfit is, or what he's wearing outside of "Spandex and a helmet with a cape". Blue with a white lightning design. Mazzletoff posted:Taylor's about as flawed as a diamond. You don't think that her excessive moralizing and her ability to twist the facts around until she is always in the right is a significant personality flaw? Granted, it isn't actualy stated directly what she's doing until Clockblocker points it out rather late into the story, but It's there for anyone to notice. There's also the excessive brutality, the constant invasions of privacy, and as you said earlier, mistrust of everyone. I think those count as flaws.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 07:03
|
|
|
Some random remarks for the OP: 1. You claim bullying of Taylor doesn't matter for the plot. This is not true. You later mention the protagonist's distrust of authority - bullying and the school response is pretty much what caused it (although the actions of the Protectorate didn't help)is mentioned in the webseries at least several times. 2. Yes, Sophie is a functional psychopath - as are many other characters. However, this is pretty much by design. Shards intentionally seek out broken people and modify them further to encourage conflict-seeking behavior. Years spent on the streets fighting other people in costumes also don't help. You may not like how a lot of villains or heroes in the series act, but you can't say it comes out from nowhere. 3. I can't really fault the author for including sociopathic villains or dark, brooding heroes with traumatic past, given the genre. I mean, this is a superhero webseries. You could as well complain that they wear spandex suits and give themselves pretentious nicknames. If you want to read a deep psychological drama with believable characters struggling with real issues, perhaps you shouldn't read a work of fiction about people who can throw buildings. 4. Taylor's power is really weak, given some completely broken powers other characters have. There is plenty of people she can't hurt with bugs in a straightforward way, like Alexandria or Lung. There are others who completely outclass her, like Number Man or Contessa. Her powers are useless against the Endbringers. She wins many of fights because she's smarter than many of her more powerful enemies - which again, is a pretty common trope in the superhero genre. Edit: 5. Emma is used again in the later chapter to show Taylor's character development. She's hardly unimportant. 6. You really, really seem to mix up "I don't like this character" with "This is a bad character". Like, you complain that the author is very good in describing the world from the point of view of an angsty teenager, when the protagonist is pretty much an angsty teenager given superpowers. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 31, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 15:48
|
|
|
Hi, dick, I was bullied by (what seemed to me at the time to be) half my school. 20 kids taking part in a planned Carrie-style humiliation has happened to me multiple times. The best part was the students and teachers who were utterly incapable of believing it was that bad, and instead decided I must be a psycho for screaming "gently caress you!" and leaving the lunchroom. I guess that was easier than believing I just went through something that made that a pretty tame reaction. Watch this. I''m cashing in my bullied-kid-that-you-felt-bad-for-but-never-treated-like-a-human-and-listened-to chips here, if you do this we're square. It's real, and since you seem to be not so damaged that the idea of interacting with kids fills you with horror, chances are it's way more important that you believe this than it is that I do: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yA5PoLSRWeA
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2016 09:26
|
|
|
I read it all now I most contemplate my navel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 19:11
|
|
|
Yeah, child pre-psychopaths putting together a gang of students for bullying purposes is rare but hardly unknown. It's hard to take action against them, even if someone dies, because teenagers are reluctant to talk and bullying leaves very little evidence. I think minimal character description is a modern style. I've heard similar complaints about The Hunger Games, for example.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Globofglob posted:Your commentary is terrible. I like Worm, but I can admit it has it's flaws. This touches on none of them. To be fair Wildbow has a huge problem with  , although it probably stems less from the scope and more from being a novice writer with no editor and a weekly update schedule. Worm contains around 1,680,000 words. To put that in perspective, that's over twice as long as Romance of the Three Kingdoms (~800K words), Les Miserables (~650K words), and War and Peace (~580K words), all of which have similar scope. He needs a patreon where people can donate to make him update less.I hope he manages to get involved with a traditional publisher. Worm is one of the most interesting cape stories of the past few years but he desperately needs someone to tell him that it should be half as long, shouldn't take a dive in quality two-thirds of the way through, and doesn't need multi-chapter descriptions of action figures being mashed together.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2017 04:26
|
|
|
Microcline posted:To be fair Wildbow has a huge problem with All this is true if the tolerian academy youtuber can patreon can raise 11k a month this dude could at least get like 100-200 buck to hire an editor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2017 06:02
|
|
|
how the gently caress could you read worm more than once
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2017 21:59
|
|
|
Microcline posted:To be fair Wildbow has a huge problem with If you don't want to read 1,680,000 words of Worm, why read 1,680,000 words of Worm?  Life's too short to read a 1,680,000 word novel you think should be 840,000 words, especially if you would derisively describe it as "multi-chapter descriptions of action figures being mashed together", unless you're being paid well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2017 06:48
|
|
|
I read it the first time in less than a week while waiting for other stuff to happen. It was better than a whole lot of super hero comics and stories but could have been edited down a standard fuckton.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2017 22:11
|
|
|
Fallorn posted:I read it the first time in less than a week while waiting for other stuff to happen. It was better than a whole lot of super hero comics and stories but could have been edited down a standard fuckton. In Wildbow's defense on this point, he(?) said that the Web Serial served as a first-draft for Worm and that it would need a serious editing before being published. Since then he appears to have gotten a foothold writing serialized fiction for a living, which I'd guess takes up most of his time and puts major rewrites of old projects on the backburner.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
Skippy McPants posted:In Wildbow's defense on this point, he(?) said that the Web Serial served as a first-draft for Worm and that it would need a serious editing before being published. Since then he appears to have gotten a foothold writing serialized fiction for a living, which I'd guess takes up most of his time and puts major rewrites of old projects on the backburner. Yep just about 2.5k a month from patreon it seems just googled it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
21 Muns posted:If you don't want to read 1,680,000 words of Worm, why read 1,680,000 words of Worm? The chapters of action figures being mashed together is sadly something Wildbow is clearly big on. Sometimes it's cool because you see interesting power uses. Other times it's gratuitous and unnecessary and feels like it was a final product of something McCrae wrote for a who would win thread on Space Battles. The bit about Endbringers being as dense as galaxies uuuggggghhhh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:The chapters of action figures being mashed together is sadly something Wildbow is clearly big on. Sometimes it's cool because you see interesting power uses. Other times it's gratuitous and unnecessary and feels like it was a final product of something McCrae wrote for a who would win thread on Space Battles. The bit about Endbringers being as dense as galaxies uuuggggghhhh. Galaxies are mostly empty space. Are the Endbringers light and fluffy like clouds?
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
Hate Fibration posted:Galaxies are mostly empty space. Are the Endbringers light and fluffy like clouds? Having the density of something concentrated with the mass of a galaxy maybe? Can't remember. It was silly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 04:31
|
|
|
21 Muns posted:If you don't want to read 1,680,000 words of Worm, why read 1,680,000 words of Worm? For all it's flaws it's still an entertaining page-turner for most of its run. The "action figures being mashed together" mostly comes from the last third. For the first two it understands how to adapt cape powers to the strengths of the novel (that the reader can have direct knowledge of what characters think and perceive). After a certain point it ditches this initial cast and switches to a new one with more traditional powers that would be appropriate for a visual medium like comics but whose descriptions come across as secondhand in prose. Worm's flaws aren't unique. A Song of Ice and Fire has already surpassed its wordcount, takes the dive in quality much earlier (book 4 of 7), and still has two books left.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2017 06:10
|
|
|
How have you read this 2,5 times while hating everything about it? I like it (flawed as it is) and I've only read it twice. There needs to be better written super hero stories thou. Real published ones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2017 13:25
|
|
|
Affi posted:How have you read this 2,5 times while hating everything about it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2017 13:45
|
|
|
trash
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 04:11
|
|
|
Avshalom posted:trash I think this is the first of your posts that I am actually offended by and request elaboration on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 09:44
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I think this is the first of your posts that I am actually offended by and request elaboration on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2017 06:49
|
|
|
I read this in one long bender. 5 ish days. I enjoyed it and will NEVER read it again. For clarification I thought it was pretty good if wordy, I think it dropped in quality a bit at the end but other than that I liked it. Also yes Taylor is a terrible person in her own way. Kea fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Mar 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2017 00:47
|
|
|
Kea posted:I read this in one long bender. 5 ish days. I enjoyed it and will NEVER read it again. This. I read the whole thing in under a week as well, and I wouldn't read it again if you paid me. It's depressing as gently caress, and none of the fights really ever go anywhere - exactly like real superhero comics. Nothing ever really changes and that's a goddamn hell of sorts if you give it even a cursory thought. The next Big Bad Monster will always be harder to defeat. There will always be a next one. Everything is pointless. Taylor, though, is an interesting character. The near-end of the thing (the last fight) almost made me cry. She realized that she should do whatever it took to end poo poo rather than fighting and fighting and fighting in this endless loving circle. She's not a hero for it but she kind of is a hero for it. And the actual ending sucked. The bullet should have not done what it did; the story should have ended with it. Taylor should not have had that denouement. She made her choice and knew the consequences. It would have been the right thing for her to end there - she essentially knew too much and had crossed that invisible line of supercomics. She was the grizzly bear with the taste of blood; she may have provided meat to her starving cubs but she couldn't be allowed to do so again, if that makes sense. I got mad at the end. Thursday Next fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Mar 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 07:23
|
|
|
McCrae has indicated the ending may be a coma dream. He teases his fans frequently so we can't know if he's serious, but he said there is no way a bullet can perform brain surgery like that. Alex's appearance in Taylor's conclusion may be a hint it's not real - though I think it was a bit obtuse since running into differentiated versions of people you know in alternate realities is a common trope.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
Thursday Next posted:And the actual ending sucked. The bullet should have not done what it did; the story should have ended with it. Taylor should not have had that denouement. She made her choice and knew the consequences. It would have been the right thing for her to end there - she essentially knew too much and had crossed that invisible line of supercomics. She was the grizzly bear with the taste of blood; she may have provided meat to her starving cubs but she couldn't be allowed to do so again, if that makes sense. I got mad at the end. People don't always die when they want to. Also, though death always ends a character arc, the end of a character arc does not automatically bring death. HTH
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
This is logorrheic garbage for nerdlingers who claim to hate superheroes yet yearn to read about them, but have never heard of Warren Ellis or Garth Ennis.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:33 |
|
|
Lightning Lord posted:This is logorrheic garbage for nerdlingers who claim to hate superheroes yet yearn to read about them, but have never heard of Warren Ellis or Garth Ennis. Both of them handled this story's concepts better, and in a tenth the page space.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 06:10
|
|
