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Elbo
Oct 9, 2012


Are all of the random dungeons and ruins and stuff generated on world creation? In other words do the skills/items that increase the chance to find ruins or special encounters on the world map create those encounters or just show you ones that you could have found on your own if you traveled on the ground?

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verbal enema
May 23, 2009



im tripping and v muxh enjoying the tunes

verbal enema
May 23, 2009



i am salt man

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

Elbo posted:

Are all of the random dungeons and ruins and stuff generated on world creation? In other words do the skills/items that increase the chance to find ruins or special encounters on the world map create those encounters or just show you ones that you could have found on your own if you traveled on the ground?

Their locations and properties (though not specific map layout) are generated during world gen.

A Strange Aeon
Mar 26, 2010

You are now a slimy little toad


The Great Twist

verbal enema posted:

i am salt man

Live and drink, friend!

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Unormal posted:

Their locations and properties (though not specific map layout) are generated during world gen.

To add on to this, there are so many of the loving things that you can spend a frankly unreasonable amount of time just finding and exploring them if your character is built for that. Source: I built a character just for that, and got to like level 25 just by finding stuff, shooting people, completing Sultan history quests, and returning overdue library books before I ever even bothered to go to Golgotha.

verbal enema posted:

i am salt man

Me too, buddy

victrix
Oct 30, 2007




Random storyline thoughts. Spoilers for all major main quest areas, stay out if you haven't finished through Tombs.


Bethesda Susa is probably one of my favorite dungeons/ruins/lairs/fortresses/keeps/inverted towers/whateverthefuck in any video game ever.

The atmosphere in there is superb. And I say this even with how much I hate sleep gas Evocative music and feel, in a low-fi roguelike? Yep, it's real.

I think the end of tombs is a bigger moment, but I didn't like the lower floors as much, lot of very annoying stuff in there.

I both love and hate Golgotha. It's incredibly well realized, but I think mechanically it's a bit off, because after the first time you get through there, you're heavily incentivized to just blitz through it in <5 minutes of real time. Actually fighting your way through and exploring is a megabad idea, which kind of sucks, because it's a neat, incredibly well themed place.

Omonporch is... ok? I guess? Bananas are OP.

The Grit Gate siege sucks. Not big on defense missions, and this one is just a colossal clusterfuck due to the number of targets involved, grenades going off, penalties for friendly fire, etc. Also some cheesy strats you can pull off with meta knowledge, making this punishing to first timers who don't expect it and meh for the prepared.

Rainbow Wood is very similar to Golgotha, you want to get in and out quickly. It's also in a weird place for min/max players, you can farm xp-giving slimes basically endlessly, which is both boring and lame. Literally standing in one place mashing (f) if you have the right setup. Meanwhile if you don't have the right setup, you may find yourself totally overwhelmed, disarmed, dead, or in a situation where finding the continuation is borderline impossible.

On the upshot, Klanq. Puff you Also the mushroom effect. Just amazing.

I'd love to see more side areas like asphalt caves and rusted arch (and I guess redrock/rustwells?), I didn't like kyakuya or beh lah as much, but kyakuya had some interesting lore stuff going on at least. I'd skip beh lah entirely on most characters but for the 300 sp potential reward for some builds.

The only reason I even found out about trembling dunes was a complete spoiler mention by another player, or I'd never have found it - is there anything anywhere in the game that even points to it?

Historic dungeons are a good midpoint along those lines, they're more interesting than generic ruin diving with the guaranteed solid rewards at the end.



And finally on a non spoiler note, Tombs is incredible, but man it's killing me even more now that I couldn't hold out for 1.0. I waited like 3?+ years or so, Tombs patch lured me back. Worth it? Absolutely. But I want the ennnndddiiiinggggg

Anyway, game good, good game.

victrix fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Aug 10, 2020

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!


I definitely agree on the grit gate defense. When I start it I'm not so much scared of dying as I am scared of pissing off my bear buds. In what should be an all out scramble where you're throwing out everything you have, instead I just try to carefully bump everything to death. Would like to see allies in that fight have a higher tolerance to friendly fire or something.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017




Yeah, given how much experimenting goes on in there, the Barathrumites should be resilient to catching a bit of flak. I feel like they should only turn on you if they've been *explicitly* targeted instead of reacting on just taking incidental damage from a grenade or shock arc or something.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

TBH there should be an Insane Bravado dialogue option where you tell everyone to hole up downstairs with the old man, and if you manage to repel the attackers with just your immediate companions and whatever turrets you managed to activate, everyone comes back up like " you absolute loving behemoth. You maniacal wrecking ball"

e: make the player have to click through like five different "sib, are you sure, these people are extremely dangerous and you are wildly outnumbered" protests and then if they win anyway they get to drop some hilariously badass "told you so" line

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Angry Diplomat posted:

TBH there should be an Insane Bravado dialogue option where you tell everyone to hole up downstairs with the old man, and if you manage to repel the attackers with just your immediate companions and whatever turrets you managed to activate, everyone comes back up like " you absolute loving behemoth. You maniacal wrecking ball"

e: make the player have to click through like five different "sib, are you sure, these people are extremely dangerous and you are wildly outnumbered" protests and then if they win anyway they get to drop some hilariously badass "told you so" line

Moon King Chills: Clear the Grit Gate invasion without assistance from bear or machine

Elbo
Oct 9, 2012


Angry Diplomat posted:

To add on to this, there are so many of the loving things that you can spend a frankly unreasonable amount of time just finding and exploring them if your character is built for that. Source: I built a character just for that, and got to like level 25 just by finding stuff, shooting people, completing Sultan history quests, and returning overdue library books before I ever even bothered to go to Golgotha.

What kind of things would make a build better suited for those in particular?

BaconCopter
Feb 13, 2008





Most of the time I can get past the defense at Grit Gate with zero to one casualties, but there was this one time where some jerkass Phylactery Squire was hiding somewhere and the drat cyberghost hologram gently caress completely slaughtered the whole base while I desperately tried to figure out what was going on. This was, of course, before I knew about the mechanic because I had decided to not activate either of the two Phylactery items I had found on different files by that point. I tried a phase-harmonic grit carbine, astrally tethering it, AND then tossing normality gas grenades at it to no avail. RIP that run.

Tomb is super duper freaking awesome, the ending of it (which I'm not sure if there are alternatives options for) is so really cool and well done. I want more soooo badly, the build-up at the current ending I've seen is insane. Now to figure out my cheese strat for Cherubs. I'm thinking something along the lines of Portable walls and sleep/freeze/confusing them, potentially with some Linear Cannon turrets

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


victrix posted:


I both love and hate Golgotha. It's incredibly well realized, but I think mechanically it's a bit off, because after the first time you get through there, you're heavily incentivized to just blitz through it in <5 minutes of real time. Actually fighting your way through and exploring is a megabad idea, which kind of sucks, because it's a neat, incredibly well themed place.


Yeah, Golgotha is in a weird spot, because once you know about the many various routes to blitz to the end, there's really no incentive whatsoever to do it the "right" way; AFAIK, it's impossible for anything of meaningful value (like cybernetics or w/e) to spawn on the earlier floors, and even if you want to check those for some reason, using one of the many means of flight and then just warping out is a much smarter way to do that than running the gauntlet. The gauntlet is such a neat idea and especially when it was implemented there wasn't much like it in roguelikes, but the backdoor option, which is otherwise great, kind of... kills the point of it all.

And also, when a sultan dungeon or somesuch spawns using the Golgotha gadget tileset, the results can be... really, really messy. 60,000 drams of acid messy.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Elbo posted:

What kind of things would make a build better suited for those in particular?

The Customs & Folklore and Wayfaring skill trees, basically. The Wings mutation also helps greatly, though it's not mandatory - just a significant quality of life upgrade.

You probably want to aim for fairly high Intelligence (just upwards of 20 IIRC) in the midgame so you can a) buy lots of skills and b) get Trash Divining - it's free real estate secrets! Don't forget to take the skill that gives you more reputation from the water ritual as well - that really adds up, since your Wayfaring means you'll be finding a lot more legendary lairs and you'll be constantly bartering your enormous library of secrets for other, even cooler secrets.

Before anything else, though, you'll want a core set of combat skills. I personally recommend just going with basic rifle skills + the DV enhancing skills, and simply shooting everything with the best gun you can get your hands on, eventually aiming for a carbine; that'll give you respectable killing power for a comparatively modest skill investment. You'll likely want to choose a melee tree to dip into at some point - if you haven't found a dope Sultan weapon, you can't go wrong with Long Blades for Defensive Stance. More DV means getting hit less often means having a little more time to realize you hosed up and it's time to run like hell while frantically jabbing salve injectors into your neck.

Find and do the starter village quests that aren't highly likely to kill you (knowing when to politely apologize and quickly walk away is critical for this playstyle). This should get you a level or two at least. Now make your pilgrimage to the Stilt, pausing to carefully take a curious peek at any interesting locations you find. Don't feel bad if you have to bolt - just discovering some places can net you experience, and every new discovery gives you another secret to barter to someone who's interested in that type of location.

Once you've reached the Stilt, you can go chat with the Sultan Contemplation Man for some experience, maybe share water (and secrets!) with the High Priest and perhaps Wardens Esther, and wander around and see what the merchants have for sale. Pick up a good rifle if you can find one, buy lots of bullets, and grab any other stuff you're in need of.

By this point you can probably afford to grab Wayfaring for a biome you're comfortable exploring at your current level - so choose one and mosey over to any interesting sites you've got marked, pausing to investigate the many things you discover along the way. I like the salt flats because of their excellent visibility, but Dawnglider attacks are no joke, so you may prefer a different option.

If you don't die to carelessness or misfortune, sooner or later you'll run across one of three things that can accelerate your progress towards an endgame-ready character: an infinite money source like a convenient giant weep, an absolutely massive ruined library that you can loot and haul back to the Stilt for a billion experience, or an unbelievably diesel legendary who's friendly enough from all your water-sharing and secret-telling that you can recruit them and start exploring in much more dangerous places.

If you ever feel like you've run out of things to spend skill points on, you're probably mistaken Tinkering and Cooking both synergize very well with this build (some people will trade faction reputation for your mouth-watering cooking recipes!) and you can always beef up your combat skills. If all else fails, the toughness and discipline skill trees are right there, and anything that makes you less likely to die is a good investment.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Seconding Angry Diplomat's build as a fun chill way to spend time ingame. He's really underselling the power of wings + wayfaring + compass bracelet there I feel; the threshold of being able to fly laps around the overland map with 0% chance of getting lost is incredible, and it actually takes no time at all to just walk to the stilt & back whenever you want, at no cost and effectively instantly.

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Elbo
Oct 9, 2012


Yeah I'm gonna try that for my next game, I've basically only played crawl style minotaur berserkers so far.

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