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fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Rarity posted:

So I saw. This could have merit. In that case my guess is Lowell and AC :D

You think they both bussed Opop?

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Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!





Rarity posted:

Chamale, you realise no one is going to put the hammer on me now, don't you?

I decided to vote for you now because it's well-known that I suspect you, and I didn't want to stop someone from deciding to put you at -2. Now I've laid out my case and everyone knows how I'm voting. You posted as someone who had inside knowledge of the number of scum left, and now you're trying to play innocent.

Besides, you haven't addressed the point that made up most of my last post: You could not have missed the fact that the Scum tried to kill Lumpen, and that this meant he was both still in danger and assuredly Town. So you claim to be a doctor who protected Foo both nights, and I don't believe you.

(I'm taking for granted that Colonel Corazon is telling the truth about being the Bus Driver, but I think we all agree that it would have been too complicated for him to lie)

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


fiery_valkyrie posted:

You think they both bussed Opop?

Lowell didn't vote Opop until he was -1 and didn't vote for Opop the day before even though he said he supported the swing so I wouldn't call that a bus. AC doesn't mention Opop at all before her vote, when it's clear there's already a strong push for him so yeah, I can see that as a bus.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Chamale posted:

I decided to vote for you now because it's well-known that I suspect you, and I didn't want to stop someone from deciding to put you at -2. Now I've laid out my case and everyone knows how I'm voting. You posted as someone who had inside knowledge of the number of scum left, and now you're trying to play innocent.

Besides, you haven't addressed the point that made up most of my last post: You could not have missed the fact that the Scum tried to kill Lumpen, and that this meant he was both still in danger and assuredly Town. So you claim to be a doctor who protected Foo both nights, and I don't believe you.

(I'm taking for granted that Colonel Corazon is telling the truth about being the Bus Driver, but I think we all agree that it would have been too complicated for him to lie)

None of this matters because nobody is going to hammer an uncountered doctor claim because town aren't going to risk the possibility I'm honest and scum know I'm honest and know they're toast for it the second I flip.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!





Rarity posted:

None of this matters because nobody is going to hammer an uncountered doctor claim because town aren't going to risk the possibility I'm honest and scum know I'm honest and know they're toast for it the second I flip.

Evidence that you are a doctor:
1. You say you are a doctor

Evidence that you are a liar:
1. The scum went after the same target on Night 2 that they went after on Night 1 and you claim to have missed the fact that the Scum tried and failed to kill Lumpen on Night 1 because of Corazon.
2. You claim that you protected Foo on Night 1 although he had not built a case on anyone at that point, because he was your "strongest town read".
3. You made a post that sounded confident that there are 3 Scum left, when only Scum know their numbers.
4. We haven't seen any target survive a night, or anything else that would indicate that this game actually has a Doctor in it.

I'm going to sleep.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


I can't wait to see your reaction tomorrow.

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.



Like if you actually backed up your assertions Rarity I would Unvote you and take out someone else first.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Colonel Corazon posted:

Like if you actually backed up your assertions Rarity I would Unvote you and take out someone else first.

How do you mean? I have no idea what you're talking about

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.



Rarity posted:

How do you mean? I have no idea what you're talking about

By pointing out specifically what you thought was suspicious about Lowell/AC. And thanks for ignoring my effortpost. That's totally legit.

##unvote Rarity until I hear from Foo. F_v what's up with your vote on Someone?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Colonel Corazon posted:

By pointing out specifically what you thought was suspicious about Lowell/AC.

I already cased Lowell when I put down my vote on him. You can find it here. As for AC, it's a combination of imgay's claim and general quietness.

Colonel Corazon posted:

And thanks for ignoring my effortpost. That's totally legit.

I tried to respond to it but my eyes glazed over as I read it, as I can assure you did everyone else's. Don't get me wrong, you put in a ton of effort on that post and I respect that but one thing you will learn if you keep playing online mafia is that brevity is vital. When I first started playing I made huge effort cases like that but the reality is other people don't read them. That's why I keep the majority of my posts clean and snappy, so that my points are clear and concise and easy for others to digest. A side bonus of this is it leaves less opportunities for scum to find flaws to wriggle through.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

Rarity posted:

I already cased Lowell when I put down my vote on him. You can find it here. As for AC, it's a combination of imgay's claim and general quietness.


I tried to respond to it but my eyes glazed over as I read it, as I can assure you did everyone else's. Don't get me wrong, you put in a ton of effort on that post and I respect that but one thing you will learn if you keep playing online mafia is that brevity is vital. When I first started playing I made huge effort cases like that but the reality is other people don't read them. That's why I keep the majority of my posts clean and snappy, so that my points are clear and concise and easy for others to digest. A side bonus of this is it leaves less opportunities for scum to find flaws to wriggle through.

TL;DR is not exactly what I'd call an effective defense.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


jesus christ chamale stop playing wine in front of doc it's really freakin' difficult to pick the NK; just because scum targets one person one night and doesn't get them doesn't mean they automatically re-target the second person

second of all no fuckin' way i'm voting an uncounterclaimed doc right now

i believe i already addressed aC's vote on Opop and found it reasonable to believe it as a bus

i don't have a lot of time today but my vote is sticking where it is (on aC)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Acebuckeye13 posted:

TL;DR is not exactly what I'd call an effective defense.

CC's effortposts, while good, are not good by virtue of length; i used to do similar things but going through and quoting every post and narrating someone's play isn't super helpful, usually better to sum up, quote critical posts, and draw your conclusions

clear and backed up conclusions are the most important part, and CC is doing that

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Captain Foo posted:

jesus christ chamale stop playing wine in front of doc it's really freakin' difficult to pick the NK; just because scum targets one person one night and doesn't get them doesn't mean they automatically re-target them a second time


mafia edit

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


also madman's law :v: indicates that lowell and aC are scum

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Chamale posted:

Evidence that you are a doctor:
1. You say you are a doctor

Evidence that you are a liar:
1. The scum went after the same target on Night 2 that they went after on Night 1 and you claim to have missed the fact that the Scum tried and failed to kill Lumpen on Night 1 because of Corazon.
2. You claim that you protected Foo on Night 1 although he had not built a case on anyone at that point, because he was your "strongest town read".
3. You made a post that sounded confident that there are 3 Scum left, when only Scum know their numbers.
4. We haven't seen any target survive a night, or anything else that would indicate that this game actually has a Doctor in it.

I'm going to sleep.

3 scum and SK seems reasonable for 16p

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Chamale posted:

Evidence that you are a doctor:
1. You say you are a doctor

Evidence that you are a liar:
1. The scum went after the same target on Night 2 that they went after on Night 1 and you claim to have missed the fact that the Scum tried and failed to kill Lumpen on Night 1 because of Corazon.
2. You claim that you protected Foo on Night 1 although he had not built a case on anyone at that point, because he was your "strongest town read".
3. You made a post that sounded confident that there are 3 Scum left, when only Scum know their numbers.
4. We haven't seen any target survive a night, or anything else that would indicate that this game actually has a Doctor in it.

I'm going to sleep.

the only one of these that might hold any water at all is #2 fyi (and it barely does)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Captain Foo posted:

the only one of these that might hold any water at all is #2 fyi (and it barely does)

but really, chamale, it presupposes that rarity has the same take on the game as you

which certainly false

in conclusion, the doc claim at this point outweighs all of your arguments against it

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


LowellDND posted:

my earlier thoughts:

maybe scum
cham
1) apostate

scum
2) rarity
3) imgay

now voting against me
1) apostate
2) rarity
3) imgay
someone awful

I think I struck a nerve :v: Increasingly sure I am on the right track. Someone, the colonel and I both have you tagged as non-scum, so please change your vote of me if you would :D

garbage, please actually argue something, anything

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Colonel Corazon posted:

Rarity:


Colonel’s Conclusion: You didn’t catch my eye until my first reread during N1 so I swapped you and imgay. You support the obvious Townies (me, Foo, and prob f_v). Besides the obvious Townies, you have supported Opop (scum) and imgay (not looking too hot). You saved Opop from a D1 lynch. You and imgay follow others after they vote. You are reactionary and often completely redirect conversations. You focus other players on those who are hostile towards you and your likely allies. You throw shade all over the place but never offer substantial rationales. You are a Proud Mafia Mommy :3: and you are Scum :mediocre:

here i tl;dr'd this for you rarity, please respond to it

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


fiery_valkyrie posted:

You thought Rarity was scum, you investigated her. Now you're voting for the same person she is. Why?

there's something about this logic train i don't like

imgay found rarity a "worthy target" at the time of investigation but ended up getting no result (on her) because of the bus. it's possible imgay's read could have changed, or he still thinks rarity is scum and bussing. there's nothing obviously wack here imo

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Captain Foo posted:

here i tl;dr'd this for you rarity, please respond to it

Ok, just for you Foo:

I've always agreed I screwed up with pulling the lynch off Opop on D1, mistakes happen. A lot of the rest of Corazon's posts rely on making suppositions, eg. imgay only doesn't look hot to Corazon but overall I'd say he's doing all right (not great, but all right) to town as a whole, eg2. I'm a poo poo scum player who doesn't know how to bury connections with my scumbros. Reactionary is my general style of play. I like to be assertive and put people under pressure to see what shakes loose, again I do this as both town and scum so it's a null tell. I was the first serious vote on Lumpen, the first vote on Lowell and I think the first vote on Chamale (?) so me following other votes is bullshit. My rationales are short but they are substantive.

The main problem we have here is our newbie brigade is locked in on me and I don't see them stopping that even with my claim, but they don't have the votes to lynch me and I doubt anyone else is going to hammer me at this point. Meanwhile, the rest of us can only do a lynch if we all vote together which means voting for one of our newbie brigade and that requires all six of us to agree and be around before deadline. I think we're heading for a no lynch, peeps.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

Captain Foo posted:

second of all no fuckin' way i'm voting an uncounterclaimed doc right now

I still don't trust Rarity, but this is a good point.

##unvote

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!





Rarity posted:

The main problem we have here is our newbie brigade is locked in on me and I don't see them stopping that even with my claim, but they don't have the votes to lynch me and I doubt anyone else is going to hammer me at this point. Meanwhile, the rest of us can only do a lynch if we all vote together which means voting for one of our newbie brigade and that requires all six of us to agree and be around before deadline. I think we're heading for a no lynch, peeps.

I agree, we can't have a no lynch, and it looks like we don't have the votes to lynch you. At this point, my next suspect is ApostateCourier, and I guess I would lynch Lowell if we don't have the votes to lynch AC.

##unvote
##undouble

##vote apostateCourier
##double apostateCourier


I'll be back in an hour then I probably can't post until it's too late.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


I just noticed AC is on my Lowell vote and now I'm doubting that they'd both be scum. Foo, what do you think? Do you think AC would be willing to jump on a second bus?

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007




afaik f_v's case on me is "gut, had weird availability on d2/didn't vote Opop, and has 'inconsistent reads'"

I'm not sure what to make of the last one because I'm trying to be honest and get my thoughts out as clearly as I can; any inconsistency is probably some combination of me being more busy than usual this week so I have a case of DumbBrain and of this being my first game of forums mafia so I don't really have a loving clue what I'm doing.

Would not vote Rarity at this time as un-counterclaimed doc. Still think Chamale is newbie Scum (I don't see how stupidity and scumminess can't coexist, but I could be convinced to vote someone else), would also vote LowellDND, imgay and apostateCourier (from most to slightly less scummy read imo), I can effortpost about imgay/aC if you want me to clarify

I'll be leaving in a half hour or so and will not be around for deadline.

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007




the difference between imgay and aC imo is they've both played like poo poo but aC slightly less so, but aC's oneshot claim is more suspicious than imgay's cop claim

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Someone Awful! posted:

the difference between imgay and aC imo is they've both played like poo poo but aC slightly less so, but aC's oneshot claim is more suspicious than imgay's cop claim

Then why is imgay above AC on your ranked suspicion list?

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007




Rarity posted:

Then why is imgay above AC on your ranked suspicion list?

Because while his claim is more believable his play has been absolute poo poo, whereas aC has found a SK (could easily have done as a scum rolecop or something) and helped lynch scum, admittedly with a vote that I've said could easily be read as a bus

It's not really a very strong difference, I'll be honest. :shrug:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


I've had a thought which I know is WIFOM but makes sense to how I'd play as scum. Why bother outing Hiip in the thread under the guise of a 1-shot cop when AC could have kept quiet and just had scum kill Hiip during N2? Sure, there's a risk that Hiip would target a scum that night but in the long run I think it would be worth it compared to potentially hampering your credibility.

Of course, it doesn't even need to be AC who was the scum rolecop in that situation, she could be a scum goon claiming a buddy's results as her role has the least value to scum.

I'm kinda just thinking out loud here, what do other people think about those scenarios?

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.



Rarity posted:

I've had a thought which I know is WIFOM but makes sense to how I'd play as scum. Why bother outing Hiip in the thread under the guise of a 1-shot cop when AC could have kept quiet and just had scum kill Hiip during N2? Sure, there's a risk that Hiip would target a scum that night but in the long run I think it would be worth it compared to potentially hampering your credibility.

Of course, it doesn't even need to be AC who was the scum rolecop in that situation, she could be a scum goon claiming a buddy's results as her role has the least value to scum.

I'm kinda just thinking out loud here, what do other people think about those scenarios?

AC's claim put them closer to town in my book but there's a ton if reasons to keep them from being trustworthy. I didn't consider AC claiming someone else's result but if we lynch a scum cop today that would put AC in hot water.

My effortposts are mostly for my benefit since rereading the thread wasn't really possible for me earlier in the game. I think this vote has a drat good chance at revealing more than one scum so sharing my thought process seemed smart. But I added a tldr blurb since I'm posting a lot of poo poo.

I haven't gone through Lowell yet but the rereads I've done don't have him looking so good.

Town: Foo and f_v
Probably Town: Someone, Ace
Neutral: NOBODY
Probably Scum: Cham, AC, Lowell
Scum: imgay, Rarity

Both imgay and rarity have a good role reason to protect them from today's vote. Lowell came off a bit worse thanks AC to me so

##vote Lowell

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.



Also I might miss the deadline so if anyone has any cool thoughts on who I should bus tonight let me know.

I still think taking imgay and myself on a nice long bus ride would still make for a lovely evening :allears:

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.





Colonel no :( I thought we were friends.

Since Im the only one voting Rarity, Ill go for my second choice instead. I do think Rarity is scum, but that vote isn't happening today. So.

##unvote
##vote apostateCourier

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.



It's either you or AC baby today :smith:

Please convert me

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.





Colonel Corazon posted:

It's either you or AC baby today :smith:

Please convert me

okay, so. burden of proof means that I have to show a_c is more suspicious than myself, not necessarily show I am without suspicion. as the thread as shown, several players view my newb posting as disturbing. what I need to do, then, is show a_c as more so.

the first thing of interest is that a_c goes particularly hard for kash, who we know was town. following this, a_c spent her one shot cop early on, ‘at random’. however, the person chosen was hiipfire, the serial killer (who threatened scum just as much as town).

she then voted for opop, which could be viewed as going with the town train. as we remember, there were no other contenders, with opop getting ~10 votes. this means that one could ‘appear town’ without changing the effect of the vote.

finally, she tagged me shortly after I (and other thread members) marked her as likely scum. all of that shows a history of action that is self-benefiting for scum, while maintaining the facade of town.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


AC, I hope you will be around before deadline so you can make your own points

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!





For the record I'm back and able to post. I'm still happy with my votes for AC.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.





Got a bit more than an hour left. If two of colonel/someone/f_v switch over to AC, we can hit the 6 minimum :D

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


I'll switch to AC if we don't have the votes for Lowell but I'm hoping she'll show up to answer some questions or at least drop some final reads for us

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Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.





My line of thinking is, of course, the same reason I switched from Rarity. Having a protest vote doesn't do much, while getting a successful lynch vote is more important for town to succeed. So Someone and F_V have margin to switch, and Colonel seemed open to persuasion on priorities.

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