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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Acebuckeye13 posted:

I'm not sure! I'm gonna try to re-read this thread tonight and try to get some ideas going. I've got some ideas, but I don't want to make a knee-jerk claim when there's still plenty of time to discuss the vote. May not be able to go over it as much as I'd like tonight though, got a poo poo-ton to read for my classes tomorrow.

Please tell me somewhere in the next 3 pages you have an opinion

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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

Right, so by demonstrating that I can double vote I proved that I have that power, whereas for all we know imgay is lying about being a cop because he can't prove it. Flavourwise it makes perfect sense for Angharad to have the double voting power, and I can't think of any Scum characters who might get that power. Plus, as Captain Foo said, the power is usually a Town power. On that note I think I need to unvote again because the last undouble only removed one of them. I still think imgay is scum, but fiery_valkyrie asked us all to unvote so I will for now. ##unvote

Holy poo poo he's at it again. This post isn't about proving imgay is scum, it's about proving he is town.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Actually, looking back at it I'm thinking Rarity is a pretty strong Scum candidate.

-Everyone she's fingered so far has been Confirmed Town

-Tried to get people to back off voting Opop on D1 (Who was confirmed Scum)

-Hasn't posted since Kash got murdered

Obviously none of this is a guarantee, but were the vote held right now I think Rarity would be the strongest choice, given all other factors.

I like how Ace talks about this as if everyone else in the thread hasn't been saying the same things about me.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

I'm saying we don't know if Max, or the cop role, is in this game at all. But I've proven that I have some kind of role that can double vote, and Angharad is the logical character for it to be; I can't imagine the flavour justification for the People Eater or Bullet Farmer having those roles, for example, because Joe hates them equally.

OH MY GOD STOP DOING THIS

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
How the gently caress did I miss this claim, he never shuts up about it :psyduck:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Newbies, on SA we almost always let days run to deadline. It gives everyone the chance to contribute, to generate a decent amount of content and to share their views on whatever's going on. It means that there's more content for us to use to hunt scum and gives scum less chances to escape by lurking. Running down the clock doesn't happen cause town will pretty much never allow a day to end in a no lynch.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Rarity posted:

Ace, you were the guy who said he'd just played some real life Werewolf games, right? How many have you played?

Rarity posted:

This is even worse than your last post. Have you ever heard of the term 'chain lynch' before and do you get why it's scummy as hell?

I don't believe Ace has responded to my questions and this makes me sad

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

This is not the mindset of a town player who thinks another player is town. This is the mindset of a scum who wants to be able to walk back on their opinion later. How do you go from saying this:


to 15 minutes later encouraging other players to call me scummy?

Cause town winning games rarely relies on one player's amazing scum hunting skills. Most of the time it's from the town collectively coming together to reach majority decisions that don't accurately reflect any individual's reads. Sure, I've been thinking you're town but I've not exactly done a bang up job of being right so far. Why are you trying to discourage people from looking at you closely?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

I was thinking about it and realized that there is not an excess of possible Town roles. Angharad, Toast, Capable, Cheedo, The Dag, Max, Furiosa, Miss Giddy, The Valkyrie, and The Keeper of the Seeds make ten. Ace - Apostatecourier's character - is supposedly a Town role, even though in the movie he was loyal to Immortan Joe and only went along with Furiosa for a little while because he didn't want to question her orders. Glory the Child could work as a town role even though she's dead at the start of the movie, then there's a few nameless Vuvalini who would surely be Vanilla Town if they're in the game at all. Do any experienced Mafia players have a guess for how many Scum would be in a game of this size?

Unless Sam is an idiot flavour isn't going to break this game. Mods either make flavour independent to alignment or provide scum with fake claims. Otherwise a mass flavour claim on D1 would ruin the game.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

I've shown that my Angharad character gives me the power to double vote, and that's usually a town-aligned power. I am our Angharad

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHBLKBARGLE

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
I'd write up a case on Chamale but I think I already just did.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Or, you know, you posted them at three in the morning and after getting up and going to class this is the first chance I've had to respond. I don't play Werewolf very often (Last time was back in May) and no, I don't know what a Chain Lynch is, or how it fits into you trying to paint me as Scum.

That being said, seems to me like you're trying awful hard to throw suspicion off yourself and imgay by implicating myself and Chamale (Not that I'm saying Chamale isn't scum, mind you-you could be trying to throw him under the bus and deflect suspicion to save your own skin). Not to mention claiming you've got some powerful role that you don't want to reveal. Panicking and posting constantly trying to dredge up "suspicious" posts without reading half of them doesn't exactly scream "Town" either, but that's just me.

Ok, three points:

1. A chain lynch is saying "one of X and Y is scum so let's lynch X today and then if he flips town we can lynch Y tomorrow". It's scummy as gently caress because it allows scum to set up two days of mislynches

2. Yes, I'm softclaiming at -2. This is a standard town play for PRs.

3. You've never played with me so you don't know my style but cause of being a different time zone I often have to play catch up with the thread, especially when there's two game days to catch up with. I'm not going to ignore old content (and you'd best believe I read every post cause it took me drat long enough). That's what I do in every game regardless of whether I'm town or scum, it's a completely null point. FV and AC can confirm this, alternatively you can read some of my previous games and see me doing exactly the same thing there.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

People can look at me closely all they like. They'll see that I vigged a SK and lynched a scum.

You act like buses aren't a thing and scum don't want SKs dead.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Ok, time to summarise. In honour of our fallen buddy I'm presenting my thoughts in the form of a list (sorry about the whole thinking you were scum thing!)

Scandalously Scum

- Chamale [doublevoter] (is incredibly concerned about proving himself to be town, not buying imgay choosing me to investigate looks sus)
- Acebuckeye13 (incredibly lurky, only has opinions that have been proven as popular, setting up chain lynches)

Salaciously Suspicious

- LowellMD (incredibly lurky, not giving reads, lovely 'me too' votes)

Needlessly Neutral

- apostateCourier [1-day cop] (1-day cop could be scum rolecop, has contributed little else)
- fiery_valkyrie [vig] (I don't like her reaction in these last few posts at all)

Tremulously Trustworthy

- Someone Awful! (thoughts seem consistent, hasn't done anything that stands out as scummy)
- Captain Foo (I think claims aside we all find Foo the towniest in the game and if he's scum then we're screwed)

Tremendously Townie

- Captain Corazon [bus driver] (like I said, I don't see a newbie scum claiming bus driver)[/i]
- imgay (cop) (I see no reason to doubt this claim)
- Rarity (:sun:)

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Rarity posted:

Ok, time to summarise. In honour of our fallen buddy I'm presenting my thoughts in the form of a list (sorry about the whole thinking you were scum thing!)

Scandalously Scum

- Chamale [doublevoter] (is incredibly concerned about proving himself to be town, not buying imgay choosing me to investigate looks sus)
- Acebuckeye13 (incredibly lurky, only has opinions that have been proven as popular, setting up chain lynches)

Salaciously Suspicious

- LowellMD (incredibly lurky, not giving reads, lovely 'me too' votes)

Needlessly Neutral

- apostateCourier [1-shotcop] (1-shot cop could be scum rolecop, has contributed little else)
- fiery_valkyrie [vig] (I don't like her reaction in these last few posts at all)

Tremulously Trustworthy

- Someone Awful! (thoughts seem consistent, hasn't done anything that stands out as scummy)
- Captain Foo (I think claims aside we all find Foo the towniest in the game and if he's scum then we're screwed)

Tremendously Townie

- Captain Corazon [bus driver] (like I said, I don't see a newbie scum claiming bus driver)[/i]
- imgay (cop) (I see no reason to doubt this claim)
- Rarity (:sun:)

Durrr. Mafia edit.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

What does a bus have to do with me pushing the vote on Opop?

I don't mean bus driver, I mean the bus tactic.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Captain Foo posted:

lmao you call me the towniest but don't actually put me in the towniest slot

I said claims aside, I'm judging you purely based on tone and reads. Corazon and imgay's claims are enough to put them ahead of you, before those came out I'd have put them lower.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

I also find it funny that the first thing imgay did after declaring he was a cop was claiming that he'd copped Rarity and she was cool, and the only reason given was that she "Seemed like a worthy target". Is that proof they're working together? You be the judge! And jury, and executioner.

If you're town you're literally the worst player I've ever seen on SA.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

I'll ##unvote so we have time to talk until the deadline.

Much appreciated. Assuming your suspicion of me stays I'd like to see a full case from you.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Ace, you never responded to my explanation of chain lynches. What do you think about them?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

I have flavour-invoking and non-flavour-invoking arguments to show that Rarity is scum and I am not.

First, flavour. I've been hinting about my character ever since I got the role by quoting her in every post until I revealed who I am. It's a giveaway to anyone who's seen the movie (not Rarity, and a few other people here) and it would be insane for Scum to try fake-claiming her by dropping hints like that. There's evidence so far that everyone's character is aligned according to the movie:


That's 6 characters, all of whom have the same alignment they do in the movie. Therefore I say everyone's character matches their alignment, and there aren't enough Good people in the movie to give the Scum their own people to fake-claim. Rarity's counterargument:


As I showed, flavour is not independent to alignment, and my next paragraph will show that there aren't enough Town characters to give Scum fake claims. And I doubt that a mass flavour claim would even happen, since Rarity called Acebuckeye scum for saying he's Cheedo and is calling me scum for saying I'm Angharad.

We have 16 players, and here's a list of named characters in the movie who make sense as town-aligned: Max, Furiosa, Nux, the War Rig, Angharad, Toast, Capable, Cheedo, The Dag, The Valkyrie, The Keeper of the Seeds, and arguably Ace, Morsov, and Glory. That's at most 14, so the Scum can't have been given their own characters to fake-claim as. Meanwhile Rarity hasn't claimed or even hinted what character she has, only alluding to wanting to keep it a secret. I say Rarity is staying mum because she hasn't seen the movie and can't convincingly lie about a Town-aligned character.

##unvote

This whole part of your case is a disaster. I can't believe you're tunnelling in on a flavour argument, you have no idea how tempted I am to get a mass flavour claim going just to prove you wrong. The one upside to this is that it's so idiotic I can't see a scum trying to stick to their guns on this so congrats, I'm convinced you're town!

Chamale posted:

Next, my argument based on behaviour. I was fighting with Lumpen early on, so me killing him Day 1 would be too obvious, so the real scum killed him in an attempt to frame me. I may be a total amateur at Internet Mafia but I've played the card game enough times to know that. Meanwhile Rarity is trying to make multiple other people look bad by accusing them of trying to chain lynch, just for speculating about who is Mafia:

Yes, I'm trying to catch scum. What are we supposed to do here? Sit around and offer people hugs and cookies until scum NK us?

Chamale posted:

On that second post, Rarity was calling Acebuckeye scum because he wanted to lynch Opop, who turned out to be scum, instead of Hiipfire, who turned out to be the serial killer.


Also, here she's hedging on Opop while trying to convince us to lynch someone else, which led to Kashuno dying on the first day. We lynched Opop while Rarity was away on the second day (not her fault for being away, time zones). So Rarity has a track record of defending Opop while also distancing from him.

This is all completely fair. I read Opop wrong, mea culpa.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Colonel Corazon posted:

##vote Rarity

This gives imgay a chance to prove themselves and Cham, scum or not, is a double voter.

Flipping me just to test imgay's claim wouldn't be worth it.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Acebuckeye13 posted:

-Everyone she's fingered so far has been Confirmed Town except for Chamale (Counting myself, obviously)

You keep saying this but you realise you're only actually talking about Lumpen and Kash, right? And I was far from the only person to suspect them.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

-Has defended imgay and in her trustworthiness chart placed him as "Confirmed Town", despite there being no evidence backing up imgay's claims of being a town-aligned cop.

I'm not going to doubt an uncountered cop claim this early in the game.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

As of now, I'm somewhat sure that imgay and Rarity are Scum, and are trying to cover for each other. imgay claiming to be a cop and saying he targeted Rarity makes sense in that context-he's trying to clear her of suspicions while trying to mislead town. Is it guaranteed? No, obviously. Does it clear other players of being scum? No. But that's the read I have on the situation, and so far I'm pretty sure of it.

Basing alignment reads on unknown flips is bad mafia play. I know it's easy to get locked on to an opinion and extrapolate from there but I've been wrong cause of that so many times and all it does is harm town. We need to be able to judge everyone independently of each other to get the best reads. I think I'm reaching a similar point with you as I am with Chamale though. Your arguments seem like someone who's just inexperienced with mafia and who isn't familiar with standard plays or scum flags. I realise I've been quite harsh on both of you but I hope you guys keep playing mafia here cause one day we'll be in a game together and you'll be like 'dude, you were totally right, what were we thinking?'

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Colonel Corazon posted:

It's more that through it all Rarity has pointed at everyone else as scum, only ended up voting for Kash and avoided voting opop.

You're forgetting most of D1 when I was tunnelled on Lumpen :v:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
So let's look at Lowell. He's also a newbie like Chamale and Ace, they all started the game quietly but unlike them he's still lurking on D3. And when he does post, what he posts has little of value.

LowellDND posted:

Getting on this bandwagon

LowellDND posted:

Oh, we're formal about it then? ##vote lumpen

LowellDND posted:

Let's wrap the day up I guess.

##vote opop

LowellDND posted:

That seems compelling.

##vote Rarity

All of his votes are lovely bandwagon votes on whoever looks the most likely lynch target at the time. He's afraid of going against the tide of the thread, he doesn't want to be seen as standing out, which is a scummy mindset.

LowellDND posted:

Okay, sure. Lurker with a lot of one liners. Ill vote Opop if we're going that way.

On D1 Lowell commits to voting Opop. However, he doesn't attach a vote to his supposed commitment and the push on Opop fades. He doesn't want to be seen as defending Opop but he doesn't want Opop to be lynched either.

LowellDND posted:

town
lowell

probably town
corazon
foo
ace

neutral
someone
f_v

maybe scum
cham
apostate

scum
rarity
imgay

Here's my current ponderings.

This is the reason why relying on LumpenLists is a bad thing. This post is meaningless because we have no understanding of why people are in the positions Lowell has put them in. Lowell is using this list as a crutch to excuse himself from having to post meaningful content. Lists are only relevant when they are presented in the context of your reads (compare this post to mine and Lumpen's lists). All in all, Lowell reads like a player who is afraid of saying something wrong, afraid of doing something to get attention on him and afraid of being outed for what he is, scum.

##vote Lowell

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

LowellDND posted:

I like how you voted for me after I voted for you :v: That's not sketchy at all.

It's your first game, you don't even know what counts as sketchy yet :v:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
I'd like to see you have an original opinion, can you do that one?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

True. imgay is backed up by the flavour argument which I think is solid, whereas Rarity is going out of her way to ridicule flavour arguments because she can't come up with a flavour defense for herself.

I'm keeping quiet cause flavour seems linked to role, you loving idiot

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Does imgay usually play like this?

Why not look at his past games on votefinder.org and see for yourself?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

I didn't know that was possible, thanks! I took a look at his most recent game, he was poo poo-posting even harder and ultimately turned out to be Town. The game before that, he was poo poo-posting and turned out to be Scum.

Has your opinion of him changed now that you understand his meta better?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Oh sweet I'm going to be around for deadline again :toot:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Captain Foo posted:

if you voted lowell right now that'd put him at -3 with a full real-time day to go

wtf u talkin about m8

Foo has a decent point here. Who else "would" you vote for today?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

You thought Rarity was scum, you investigated her. Now you're voting for the same person she is. Why?

Godammit, this is a really good point. FV, why you gotta mess with my mind?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Oh yeah.


Cool story bro

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
I'm Miss Giddy, town doctor.

Chamale, this is why you don't just ask people to claim "for the good of town", you absolute muppet.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Oh yeah, I protected Foo both nights by the way.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

He just treats me right in ways you can't, I'm sorry :(

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
OH MY GOD FV WHY THE gently caress DIDN'T YOU VIG THIS MORON?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

OK, my second argument still applies though. I don't believe a doctor, if there is one in this game, would protect Captain Foo when there was little to suggest he'd be the main target for Scum.

Foo's been my strongest town read all game. I hadn't made the connection that Corazon's bus drive cleared Lumpen as town.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Rarity, question for you. Do you think Chamale, as a first time player, would go to all the effort of picking a flavour claim and then posting quotes from it constantly since the start of the game?

No. He's not scum he's just a dumbass. Stop voting for him guys.

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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
My guess is the scum team is Lowell, AC and one of SA!/FV/Foo (in that order of likelihood)

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