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Thank you. Alright. I'm gonna try to do a reread of people and their interactions with Vimes.
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Sep 23, 2015 19:44
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Kashuno posted:Hi. I had thought that Asiina was town d1, but that I would watch her more closely d2. I didn't understand merk's logic of not revealing his role and just saying "I have the ability to know unequivocally that you are scum," because saying that at all means he's gonna be the target for the NK anyway. It seemed like a gambit to me that would lead to a chain lynch when asiina flipped town. I thought you were talking about a potential Asiina flips scum -> Vimes vote instead of Asiina flips town -> Merk vote. To be clear, did you think it was a gambit because of how merk claimed or because you thought Asiina was town?
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Sep 23, 2015 19:46
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Oh well that was just answered
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Sep 23, 2015 19:47
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I don't even know where to begin now, thought I had the game wrapped up yesterday. I have some thinking to do because I thought I had the scum team picked out and felt pretty good about everyone else.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:28
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So of all the other players around I think SamVimes has the worst-looking record with flipped scum Asiina. Voted TIMM, apparently wasn't around for the Asiina discussion but came in with time to spare on switch candidate MiR. Next day makes a tepid Asiina defense before merk claims and then votes after merk has claimed, with a token justification for voting. I just got burned for going after what I thought was a connection between two players so I feel reluctant to rush into another obvious-looking lynch, especially because it seems like everyone else agrees on this one, but that's really my only reservation.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:45
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Kashuno went nowhere on night 2 according to Grandicap. Asiina died and was a goon. If we have a three-scum team then two of them were alive on night 2, meaning if Kashuno is scum he both wasn't the nightkiller (barring untrackable kills) and he didn't have another night action. FWIW, SamVimes was also seen doing nothing on night 1. With merk flipping JOAT I'd be inclined to believe that merk tracked Asiina to the kill which is why he knew she would flip scum. So it may not mean anything that Sam didn't do anything that night. I think Sam and Kashuno can both be scum only if the scum team's only night action is a kill, because if either was scum with any other role they would have been seen using it on one of n1 or n2.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:51
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If I'm just going by my gut then my biggest suspicion right now is BottleKnight. He's someone that I've felt has been pretty reasonable all game, but probably mostly because he's agreed with me a lot lately. He went for TMM on a pretty dubious meta claim and his vote sat on TMM until the day ended, so he completely missed the Asiina swing too. He voted with merk's case on Asiina yesterday, which is probably the best thing I can say about his post history, but it could have just been him trying to ride the merk boat. He also rode hard with me on ANarc and was happy to echo me at times.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:01
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The Ninth Layer posted:So of all the other players around I think SamVimes has the worst-looking record with flipped scum Asiina. Voted TIMM, apparently wasn't around for the Asiina discussion but came in with time to spare on switch candidate MiR. Next day makes a tepid Asiina defense before merk claims and then votes after merk has claimed, with a token justification for voting. I just got burned for going after what I thought was a connection between two players so I feel reluctant to rush into another obvious-looking lynch, especially because it seems like everyone else agrees on this one, but that's really my only reservation. Someone said earlier (Grandi?) that you've been super surface-level this game, and while I mostly disagree on that, your last sentence here is pretty superficial. Do you think it's an easy case for the scum to jump on? If so who looks the most opportunistic? You seem to pretty clearly state that you don't feel comfortable with him, but you give none of the additional suspicion that I know you've given before for similar situations. PMom has been casing Vimes for days so what do you think of PMom? The Ninth Layer posted:If I'm just going by my gut then my biggest suspicion right now is BottleKnight. He's someone that I've felt has been pretty reasonable all game, but probably mostly because he's agreed with me a lot lately. He went for TMM on a pretty dubious meta claim and his vote sat on TMM until the day ended, so he completely missed the Asiina swing too. He voted with merk's case on Asiina yesterday, which is probably the best thing I can say about his post history, but it could have just been him trying to ride the merk boat. He also rode hard with me on ANarc and was happy to echo me at times. I was riding the merk boat, because I had a town read on him, just like I did in Pearl of Port Lourde. His busyness seemed to be something in both games that was genuinely holding him back and I don't think he would've been earnest about that at all as scum. Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but after not finding the good posts from Asiina I thought she had and reading PMom's D1 arguments on her I was already swinging that way. If bowmore had flipped scum I was ready to come after you because his case seemed incredibly manufactured and I thought it might be some kind of last-ditch play to make his scumbud look good. But that turned out not to be the case and I agree, reads are quite a bit harder now which is why I've been rereading certain events.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:21
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My list right now is like Vimes Pecota/BK Ninth Pmom Kash Like, if I had to put it down on paper like that. I feel kinda eh about Ninth because nothing seems overtly scummy, but the only other game I played with him, he seemed super good to me.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:09
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I kinda feel like either BK or PoP is scum but not both. I think there's exactly one there, but I have no idea why I think that.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:11
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I was trying to remember why you think Kash is good LJ so I skimmed your post history and the only thing I found was 'tonal consistency.' Is your townread on him just that? Because he has read very neutral to me.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:01
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BottleKnight posted:I was trying to remember why you think Kash is good LJ so I skimmed your post history and the only thing I found was 'tonal consistency.' Is your townread on him just that? Because he has read very neutral to me. Yeah. It's like all gut.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:05
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BottleKnight posted:Someone said earlier (Grandi?) that you've been super surface-level this game, and while I mostly disagree on that, your last sentence here is pretty superficial. Do you think it's an easy case for the scum to jump on? If so who looks the most opportunistic? You seem to pretty clearly state that you don't feel comfortable with him, but you give none of the additional suspicion that I know you've given before for similar situations. I think it's an easy case for anyone to jump on, not just scum. I think Sam will flip scum and I'm not at all interested in defending him. quote:If bowmore had flipped scum I was ready to come after you because his case seemed incredibly manufactured and I thought it might be some kind of last-ditch play to make his scumbud look good. But that turned out not to be the case and I agree, reads are quite a bit harder now which is why I've been rereading certain events. This is really backwards and I don't understand it, why would I bus a scumbuddy so hard in any event? How does it make me look better for bowmore to flip town?
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Sep 24, 2015 03:33
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The Ninth Layer posted:This is really backwards and I don't understand it, why would I bus a scumbuddy so hard in any event? How does it make me look better for bowmore to flip town? I started typing up this post and then suddenly remembered that you were pushing the ANarc lynch the whole time. I think the substitution got me confused. I don't know why I forgot that. So it's probably a good thing that I didn't have to explore that line of thought, though if I had reread your interactions after a potential bowmore scum flip like I was planning to do I'm sure I would've caught that and erased it from my head.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:59
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The Ninth Layer posted:Well that throws off pretty much all my reads. The Ninth Layer posted:I don't even know where to begin now, thought I had the game wrapped up yesterday. I have some thinking to do because I thought I had the scum team picked out and felt pretty good about everyone else. The Ninth Layer posted:So of all the other players around I think SamVimes has the worst-looking record with flipped scum Asiina. Voted TIMM, apparently wasn't around for the Asiina discussion but came in with time to spare on switch candidate MiR. Next day makes a tepid Asiina defense before merk claims and then votes after merk has claimed, with a token justification for voting. I just got burned for going after what I thought was a connection between two players so I feel reluctant to rush into another obvious-looking lynch, especially because it seems like everyone else agrees on this one, but that's really my only reservation. The Ninth Layer posted:Kashuno went nowhere on night 2 according to Grandicap. Asiina died and was a goon. If we have a three-scum team then two of them were alive on night 2, meaning if Kashuno is scum he both wasn't the nightkiller (barring untrackable kills) and he didn't have another night action. The Ninth Layer posted:If I'm just going by my gut then my biggest suspicion right now is BottleKnight. He's someone that I've felt has been pretty reasonable all game, but probably mostly because he's agreed with me a lot lately. He went for TMM on a pretty dubious meta claim and his vote sat on TMM until the day ended, so he completely missed the Asiina swing too. He voted with merk's case on Asiina yesterday, which is probably the best thing I can say about his post history, but it could have just been him trying to ride the merk boat. He also rode hard with me on ANarc and was happy to echo me at times. This is a really weird series of posts. "Jeez guys I don't know what to do now, I just don't know. I think SSV looks bad. also Kash. ON THE OTHER HAND BottleKnight." He then votes no one. It's all over the place settling on nobody. ##vote Ninth
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Sep 24, 2015 16:34
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That case looks an awful lot like "he's reasoning out loud, therefore scum"
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Sep 24, 2015 16:40
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Reasoning out loud, leading to no conclusion.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:42
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Kashuno posted:Reasoning out loud, leading to no conclusion. Do you read TNL as going anywhere other than Vimes with his vote today? I think there's a pretty clear bottom line. Also I'd be interested in what you have to say about vimes and vice-versa
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Sep 24, 2015 17:28
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Vimes is most likely scum. His weird tunnel on LJ, who I think is town, in addition to his lack of content and focus on weird things (whether or not it was an assassin kill, how the dagger was venomous in one post and not in another) leads me to believe he is scum. I could see TNL bussing SSV, as he started with SSV in that series of posts and then distanced from it over posts.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:34
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##vote Vimes is the vote for today, he's playing like he's resigned to his fate (holding strong with the LJ vote with no traction but not attempting to get people to vote with it at all or voice anything new) and with Kash calling him likely scum I think everyone else in the game has taken a negative stance on him. I can't see his D3/D4 as anything other than trying to minimize what he says about other people - unless I'm missing something, the last stance he took on someone who's alive right now excluding the LJ thing is mentioning ~vibes~ on Kash on the 17th.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:10
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hey the deadline is tonight cool. ljtrigirl (1): SSV The Ninth Layer (1): Kashuno SirSamVimes (1): PoP  7 alive, 4 to execute Deadline: Thursday, September 24th, ~11PM EDT -- that's in about 9 hours from this post. Note that I will be out at dinner with a friend, and therefore it is ~floating~
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Sep 24, 2015 18:31
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##vote sam
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Sep 24, 2015 19:34
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Kashuno posted:This is a really weird series of posts. "Jeez guys I don't know what to do now, I just don't know. I think SSV looks bad. also Kash. ON THE OTHER HAND BottleKnight." Yeah hmm, it's almost like I started the day having lost all my reads to lynches and nightkills, and had to hustle to elaborate on some more. Also I didn't call you scum, I said it was likely you weren't scum. Please read the posts you quote.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:33
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It has been a looooooong day for me. Vimes, please come in here and post your reads and stuff and claim.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:26
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The Ninth Layer posted:Yeah hmm, it's almost like I started the day having lost all my reads to lynches and nightkills, and had to hustle to elaborate on some more. I read that post like 10 times to be sure you were calling me scum and still managed to misread it  ##unvote
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Sep 24, 2015 22:53
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I have to be up early to drive for hours tomorrow and I only got 3 hours of sleep in the past 30 so I don't know how much I'll be around tonight, so I'm gonna vote Vimes in about half an hour if nothing picks up.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:54
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I've already given my opinion on my prmary scum candidate. Why did you go from reading me as "probably town" to considering me your top lynch? I'm going to be straight, I've done a pretty bad job of this game and I'm probably going to be lynched. I'm not going to bother with flailing around and trying to explain all my actions because that'll just be a distraction. I suspect I'll be more useful posthumously when you start examining people who put focus on me in light of my town flip.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:59
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SirSamVimes posted:I've already given my opinion on my prmary scum candidate. Why did you go from reading me as "probably town" to considering me your top lynch? These are exactly the kind of discussions we could've been having since last night! I really do think you believe that stuff about applying pressure with votes. But me clearing you on that was stupid to begin with and rereading you proved that my read on you was neutral. The reason it's neutral is because you've basically stated no opinions, and nothing's stopping you from posting some now!
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Sep 25, 2015 00:11
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Alright then, let me try and give a comprehensive OpinionPost! This may take a bit because the forums are taking thirty seconds to load new pages right now.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:19
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SirSamVimes posted:Alright then, let me try and give a comprehensive OpinionPost! This may take a bit because the forums are taking thirty seconds to load new pages right now. same. But I would appreciate this nonetheless.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:25
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BottleKnight + Also considered Asiina (flipped scum) a scum pick. - On the TMM (flipped town) case. - Was pro-Anarc/bowmore (flipped town) lynch Pretty neutral read here. Power of Pecota + Had votes on Asiina (flipped scum) the day before she was investigated. + Clearly reasoned cases, is quick to take into account new information and shift reads. - Had a couple of bad votes early. Leaning town on PoP, also feel her questioning makes her good to have around. Pinterest Mom + Early scum read on Asiina (flipped scum). + Didn't join in the anarc/bowmore (flipped town) case - Hammered mir (flipped town) - Case on me (town) all game. - Early mediocre case on TMM (flipped town) - Considered Grandicap (flipped town) scummy. A bit scummy, but not a primary scumpick. ljtrigirl + Consistently for Asiina (flipped scum) lynch - Wanted Anon/bowmore (flipped town) lynched, only started reconsidering when I opened up the hammer for her - "Scum: Pecota, Vimes, Anon, and Grandi." Two flipped town, one town, one unknown. Why would there even be a four man scumteam in a 13 player game? We'd be at MYLO if there was. - OMGUS case on TMM (flipped town) early game. - Once discovered that Grandicap (flipped town tracker) wasn't a new player, was for lynch. Still leaning scum on her, the only thing that is making me not completely sure is her view on Asiina. TheNinthLayer + For Asiina (flipped scum) lynch before investigation happened. - For Grandicap (flipped town tracker) lynch. - Lots of throwing shade at town players without commiting to a vote. Another fairly neutral read. Some slightly scummy aspects, but with more suspicious targets I'll say town. Kashuno - Cased MiR as scum (flipped town) - Early case on Grandicap (flipped town tracker) is kind of bullshit, as well as the "this is a scum post" messages devoid of any actual reasoning - Was eager to swap to a TMM lynch (flipped town) - Was against the Asiina (flipped scum) investigated lynch, requested a fullclaim from merk (flipped town joat) - "bowmore grandi scumteam." (both flipped town) - Accusing me (definitely town) of being scum now Uh. I remembered my read on Kashuno being pretty neutral but that is quite a record there.  SirSamVimes + Definitely town.  Probably going to get lynched, so everyone examine the people who have pushed cases on me. Final Opinions With thirteen players, I am guessing there is a three player scumteam which would mean two remaining. This list is ordered from most suspicious in my eyes to least. Scum picks Kashuno ljtrigirl Neutral picks Pinterest Mom TheNinthLayer BottleKnight Town picks Power of Pecota SirSamVimes I'm going to shift my vote slightly in lieu of this. ##unvote ##vote Kashuno
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Sep 25, 2015 00:54
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That's a good post Vimes and I like it. I find your suspicion of Kash very interesting as well. I need to find that TNL post about night actions and think about it some more. But for not posting much this game day, that is a good effortpost.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:07
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I'll freely admit this is probably my worst record in terms of calling alignments since I've stared playing mafia.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:32
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The SA Forums are being cripplingly slow for many people, and as such I am extending the deadline to TBA Friday. Just vote whenever, I'll close it sometime Friday if/when I get annoyed you guys haven't executed anyone yet.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:34
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Does nobody have any reads on my OpinionPost? Come on, we've had a deadline extension so make use of it.
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Sep 25, 2015 07:50
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okay the forums seem to have fixed themselves. A floating deadline is placed for 7PM EDT. I'm out and about most of the day tomorrow and into the evening but who knows maybe I'll have a working phone and can shut the thread down. 
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Sep 25, 2015 08:28
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 Day 4 Votecount SirSamVimes (2): PoP, PMom Kashuno (1): SSV ljtrigirl (0): SSV, -SSV The Ninth Layer (0): Kashuno, -Kashuno 7 alive, 4 to execute Deadline: Thursday, September 25th, ~7PM EDT. That's in about 15 1/2 hours from this post.
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Sep 25, 2015 08:31
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SirSamVimes posted:Does nobody have any reads on my OpinionPost? Come on, we've had a deadline extension so make use of it. opinions? you mostly just tallied whether people were on various wagons, and if they turned out to be right or wrong.
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Sep 25, 2015 14:52
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SirSamVimes posted:Does nobody have any reads on my OpinionPost? Come on, we've had a deadline extension so make use of it. Well, Kash is probably town. I'm town. And you basically just said whether or not people lynched the person that was lynched. You took snippets of my posts to make me look bad, not including my transition on TMM and trying to evaluate my reads in sum total based on one posts. And this was after you saw met early scum reads be pretty poo poo in the other Ecco game. So, yeah. You're still scum.
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Sep 25, 2015 15:54
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##vote SSV That puts him at -1. I'm going to be driving most of the time before lunch, so it's unlikely I will be back.
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Sep 25, 2015 15:56
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