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George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
I'll play.

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George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
Bottom of the list! Woo!

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
OP 15-16

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
I am turning my house into a franchised burger king. If any of you need chicken fries ("world-famous charnaz chicken fries") please come by. Also if anyone knows where a chicken would be, that would be helpful too.

God burger king is so so gross.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
I wouldn't get in that water Kashuno. I dump the charbroiled waste in there after the burgers have finished congealing.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Kashuno posted:

do you guys realize we have no one living in the actual fields? We are gonna starve.

wow rude

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Power of Pecota posted:

I egg the empty house on HI 5-6

Have you even heard of the Broken Eggshell theory? You're lowering the property value for all of us!

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Hey BK, should we clean up these streets together?

nah man go ahead, I have this burger king schtick I have to keep running (into the ground)

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Scum found. Cleaning up the streets means finding scum and BK doesn't want to do it.

##unvote
##vote BK


oh I thought it was going to involve a mop and I'm not going near a mop. Not since the accident.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Pinterest Mom posted:

this is it. this is the awkward scum post i've been waiting for.

##vote tmm

Yeah, no.

I thought you were going for some sort of interaction to learn more last night but if that's really your whole thing, nah.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Pinterest Mom posted:

"Nah" scum or "nah" wrong?

Nah wrong. Don't see it.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Pinterest Mom posted:

TMM responded in a v. prickly way, and called me scum in a roundabout way without voting (or actually explicitly doing it!). I don't feel bad about my vote.

I took 'twists it to their needs' as 'tunneling' instead of 'because they are trying to control the narrative as scum.'

Not that it's a good argument either way, but him saying you're wrong doesn't make him scum.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

So you've never made a bad faith argument on D1/D2 against someone you think is town in order to try and catch scum jumping on that bad case?

Wait. So you actually think PMom set this whole thing up to be a trap sprung? And you're using that as a defense?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Madman's Law

:shepface:

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Kashuno posted:

to be fair, I coined the term.

well let's get all circlejerky about it!

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Grandicap posted:

Wait a second. Calling what I did a case is laughable. I made a horrible vote possibly. Let's take a look at what you are calling a case for a moment:


So, you are twisting and misrepresenting what happened here. And doing so malevolently.

##unvote
##vote Kashuno

How is this post not just semantics followed by an accusation of the same twisting you said town often does earlier?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
I can definitely see Grandi scum. Would vote.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Grandicap posted:

The "and doing so malevolently part."

I would like you to explain the difference between a normal twisting of posts to make a case and a malevolent twisting of posts to make a case. Is it fake? How is it scummy?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Grandicap posted:

No he isn't. A case should be designed not to justify your vote, but to get others to vote with you. What I posted was not a case, it was an opinion piece and a weak one.
I don't have a problem with people voting me for the weak vote. I get it. I do have a problem with misrepresenting what it was.

I still think this is entirely semantics though.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Grandicap posted:

I disagree. But I also think I've made my point about it. Maybe I apply more weight to the word than others and am ok with that. I also realize by defending it, it is making me seem scummier so I am going to drop it and move on. Also acknowledging this is making me seem scummier so whatever.

I don't really know what to make of this. You've been self-conscious this whole time, but now you're like sinking into it.

So you do think Kashuno is still scum? And mostly due to him mischaracterizing a lazy post as a case? I don't really know where you stand, because you're making your points a sinking ship.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

ljtrigirl posted:

I'm going to go read the way that Kash pushed on me last game on D1. There are some familiar elements, but I think he was a lot more tentative there, like he knew he could be wrong.

In the meantime:

##unvote

##vote BottleKnight



ljtrigirl posted:

I'd probably lean towards both gsksdfns and Kashuno being town at this point, just because of Kash's tonal consistency with what I've seen from him as town and Garoshi's response feeling very "HOW DARE YOU BE SO WRONG".

I think BottleKnight's encouraging Kash was the scummiest thing in that exchange.

My willingness to vote for Grandi has nothing to do with 'encouraging Kash.' I have been interacting with Grandi and his OMGUS on Kash had little substance with a lot of words. It seems fake, and now like he's just trying to slither out of his opinions.

Actually, on that basis, ##vote Grandi

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

ljtrigirl posted:

I just completely disagree with the comment about a lack of substance in his Kash case. Like, I think he's wrong, but I think the points he picked up weren't "scum trying to push a mislynch" points. They were genuine.

That's fair. My read of his tone has been that it's fake but it doesn't really make sense for scum to come out of the gate and post that kind of rebuttal. It's one of those scenarios where the micro reads poorly but the macro reads town, I hadn't thought of that.

##unvote

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

First since we are clearly out of joke phase, I'll start with ##unvote

I would like to see some actual opinions from TNL, merk and SSV. For all the poo poo Grandicap is getting for a "low content scum post", we are letting those other three fly under the radar without providing any sort of content and all of them have a couple of little snipes/poo poo stirring posts in the middle of this whole Grandicap debacle. Also, ANarc has barely said a word and I'd like some opinions from her as well. So any of you four, aside from Kash/Grandicap, who else do you think might be scum? Asiina isn't much better and while I don't agree with her Kash vote right now, at least it has a valid reason behind it, so I lean town for her right now but I'd still like to see more opinions.

I'm not sure what to make of Kashuno right now. I just saw him pull this act in another game and be right, but it felt weird there and it still feels weird here. While I do think his reactions are more likely from town Kash, I'm not sure if his conclusion is right this time on Grandicap.

As for Grandicap, I'm just not seeing whatever else is seeing. However, since we are in agreement about some things, that might be clouding the issue and I could very well be wrong. I would vote him to avoid a no lynch over Kash, but I don't think either Kash or Grandicap is the right vote today.

I'm still suspicious of both PMom and PoP. I will say that I almost always find PMom scummy at the start of a game, even when he turns up town, so I constantly have to fight against that in order to be objective. I will say that between the two, I think PoP would be more likely to be scum right now. Unless something drastic changes my mind, I would vote for either of them but PoP first.

Right now though, LJ and Uhh are pinging me the hardest. I don't like uhhs reaction to the whole Madman's Law thing. I thought I made it clear that it was pretty much a joke and it's never actually been tested in a game, so I feel it should have just been ignored but instead it draws this reaction:


Plus he stated I made a good scum slip catch on Kash and has started attacking him. So uhh, if you really think that is a scum slip, do you think I am still scum and busing a teammate? Then he calls out BK for making a scum post in the very same style as Kash did on Grandi. I would definitely be willing to vote for him today.

However, what I really don't like is LJ coming in with a strange series of posts. I know it's kind of her style, but I don't really like the whiplash feeling it gives me. She starts out by saying he vote on Kash is real, but then immediately moves it BK using the same post that uhh quoted:


I see nothing wrong with that post. He clearly states his opinion and a willingness to vote. Just because he doesn't add his vote, doesn't automatically make him scum. Sure, if it came down to the wire and BK ended up not voting Grandi, then you could hold his feet to the fire. But without that it really just feels like a push to get BK to vote badly. Especially since LJ has already called Grandi town. So LJ, if you think Grandi is town, shouldn't you be trying to talk people out of voting for him? Her vote on BK also feels like she looked at the vote list and wanted to make sure that there were lots of viable candidates for a lynch, but didn't realize that my vote was still a joke vote, especially since she the only thing she has said about BK to that point is a thumbsdown at the post quoted above.

I do not like it, so I'm going to ##vote ljtrigirl

oh my god do you do this every game, why would anyone want to read all of this

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

It would really help if you, you know, interacted with my posts instead of posting stuff like this.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

ljtrigirl posted:

Did you read what I said to TMM about you?

Yeah. And I already responded to you about it.

It's a big stretch to say that with my saying where I would vote, you took that as me encouraging Kash. You didn't talk about any of my interactions with Grandi or why I might also think poorly of his posts, just that I was encouraging Kash?

I think it's a weird narrative to begin with, but the fact that I was talking to Grandicap before that makes it extra-weird.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

ljtrigirl posted:

You mean by unvoting?

No. Your main point is that I encouraged Kashuno. I made a post about why that isn't true. You then responded with 'well I disagree that Grandi made a bad OMGUS.' That's fine, but it doesn't really respond to why I encouraged Kashuno. So when you say it again to TMM, I really don't understand.

I, however, agreed with your other point, that he's probably not trying to push a narrative.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

ljtrigirl posted:

Oh. I disagree. All of your posts relating to him encouraged him, but you didn't actually vote there until I called you out on it.

Well, all I can say then is that that isn't true.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Yes, I am absolutely calling out lurkers this early. Lurking has been a major problem in games lately and everyones wonders how to deal with the issue. The solution to dealing with lurkers is to call them out early and often and force them to provide content and if they don't, then vote them out early. So I'm going to continually call out lurkers early in the game, especially when several of those people were around enough to be skimming through the thread during a pretty big conversation, but couldn't be bothered to give any sort of actual opinion and instead just sniped at it.

This is you, in Pearl of Port Lourde, less than 24 hours after the game started, as scum:

TMMadman posted:

This is just a standard lurker poke:

I'd like to see some posts from Chaoslord, ANarc, QPQ and Jedit.

Hal, Samfu and Meinberg you are on my radar for not posting a lot either.

I know you can't all be a posting superstar like me, but I'd still like to see some effort.

I like how you are trying to hamfist in extra reasons to do something you often do to fake content. ##vote TMM

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

That has to be the weakest reason ever to vote someone. Everyone has been talking about lurkers ruining games. The easiest way to stop that from happening to consistently call out lurkers, so that is what I am going to do. It is not indicative of my alignment and when I flip that will be proved true.

Okay. So that's why you're doing it this time, midway through D1. Why were you doing it last time, early on D1, as scum? Are you really saying there's this big difference?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

I'm doing it and will always do it because lurkers suck the life out of a game. Town or scum, lurking is lame. Calling it out is not indicative of my alignment. If I feel there are too many people lurking early in a game, I am absolutely going to call it out regardless of my alignment if nobody else is already doing it.

There has been lots of discussion in the general thread about lurkers and no real consensus on how to deal with them. The easiest way to deal with it is to call them out regardless of your alignment and be willing to vote them out early. I've been somewhat hesitant to vote the lurkers early, but after X-COM II game and Asiina forcing a lurker scum lynch on D1 I have much less qualms about it.

Plus, as I said, several of those people were around enough to make a couple of snipes, but nobody put forth any sort of read. Meanwhile, we are hounding Grandi for a low content scum post, while letting several other low content posts slide by during the whole conversation.

I get it. You have this narrative for this game, and you're sticking to it. But you didn't have it last time, where you posted it largely as white noise. (A lot of people accused you of white noise early in that game.) So I don't buy this big guilt argument that lurkers are this big problem and that's why you're acting like the big hero here. You keep repeating it like that's what I have my issue with.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Then what is your issue here?

I'm not some big hero and don't think of myself as one. I think that as a community we should constantly be pressuring any lurkers to post more and that is the best solution to the lurking issue that has been dragging games down lately.

My argument is that that is your narrative for this game. The whole our community is under siege thing. But you've done it before, to fake content, as scum. That wasn't your excuse then. So it is not alignment-neutral, you are doing this to force and pad your content, just like the last game. You are posting a whole lot of white noise, which is completely reminiscent of your scum game.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
I understand if you guys thing TMM being blustery is alignment-neutral but he is literally repeating his D1 from Pearl of Port Lourde, where he was scum.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

The Ninth Layer posted:

Okay I read over TMM and I don't really see him as scum. Having seen him as scum in the last game I played, most of his posts were completely empty word dumps with no actual content in them. His one big reads post felt pretty genuine to me and had some good stuff in it, and I like how he has defended his lurker callouts. I do think he could say twice as much in half the words if he put his mind to it, nobody wants to read eight-paragraph posts or posts with four quotes in them.

What do you think in particular of the fact that he's done lurker callouts on D1 before, to fake content as scum, and didn't have this lurkers-are-killing-our-community excuse? There's a nuance to my argument that him shouting over and over again about how bad lurkers are doesn't account for. I find the way that he defended his callouts predictable.


The Ninth Layer posted:

I've been debating whether I want to vote Grandicap, the reason I haven't yet is because I don't think scum would have stuck around defending the semantics of "case" for so long. Points against him for backing down very self-consciously, and personally I don't like anyone for town who characterizes their own play as scummy or scummy-looking.

So do you think Grandi as scum would go for something like that out of the gate? That's the big thing I can't wrap my head around, and why I probably wouldn't vote him today again at all.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

merk posted:

Literally

Figuratively

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

And why do people think I would play the same scum game as last time?

To me, this reads as you pleading that your white noise posts are alignment-neutral. They're not. I'm not saying all of your content is fake, but you have really spewed a ton of BS, just like you did in that game.

TMMadman posted:

Also, why exactly is everyone giving ANarc a pass for making 3 whole posts in 2+ days?

What do we get out of lynching a lurker with 3 posts? Like, beyond saying lurking-is-bad, what do we in this game get for it?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
I also don't like Pecota leaving their vote on Grandi from very early on and not talking or engaging with it. Is everyone in this game busy?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

BottleKnight posted:

To me, this reads as you pleading that your white noise posts are alignment-neutral. They're not. I'm not saying all of your content is fake, but you have really spewed a ton of BS, just like you did in that game.

I should clarify that last sentence. I'm not saying that all of your content is white noise, but so much of it is that I find your posting ingenuine.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Asiina for all the arguments you have made against lurkers in the general thread, why are you balking at killing one now?

It's a person who has made all of 3 posts in the past two days. Now I'm willing to give her a pass for the first day because it's joke phase, but at this point she should have at least come in with some kind of opinion.

There is a huge difference for what is good for the state of the game (as in, forums mafia) as a whole and what is strategic for us in this game, dude. I don't want to mafia dad you but if you lynch a lurker, and they flip town, you get NOTHING. If you lynch them and they flip scum, you can't go back through their interactions to see who else might be scum.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
Happy with my vote on TMM. I'm going to a watch party for the Chiefs game tonight and probably won't be around. Hope some more people who haven't been around chime in tonight.

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George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

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What a weird lynch. I read the thread this morning and could not believe you guys didn't lynch either TMM or Asiina.

Not that MiR posted much, but it was a bad lynch even if he had flipped scum because there was nothing to comb back through.

TMM's flip genuinely does surprise me, but if anything it just annoys me.

I'm going to reread last night, with an emphasis on who was defending who.

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