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You sort of glossed over the whole Stargate-style "This is the second evolution of humans and last time we had a ridiculous space empire and it all went away because Convoluted Reasons" infodump that made no sense without the context of a full goddamned trilogy of novels by Greg Bear. At least with all the bs with Guilty Spark and the original Terminals in Halo 3, the first novels and so on, it was optional. If you were a huge sperg like me and you noticed all these little details you could go search out more of it, but it wasn't necessary to understand the straightforward plot of your action space sci fi shootman adventure games. Now, they focus on this poo poo as much as they can because they can nickle and dime nerds with it. Or they think they can, anyway.
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Oct 1, 2015 11:43
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Nothing in the Halo 3 terminals suggested that humans had a prehistoric space empire.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:53
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McDowell posted:Nothing in the Halo 3 terminals suggested that humans had a prehistoric space empire. Or how they lost it because the Forerunners turned humans into monkey-men.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:04
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Frankly I enjoyed Halo 4 as the first Halo game where the guns didn't sound like toys and the story, while awful, could actually be followed by a sane human being without the help of tie-in novels. What the gently caress? The first 3 halo games are real simple "you're the hero, save the world from aliens" there are no books needed. Halo 4 is a loving mess of story that even having read the books I still don't fully loving understand. Tighclops posted:The opposite of this is true Okay now what exactly in Halo 1 is nearly that complicated or requires reading a book to understand? Nothing. McDowell posted:Nothing in the Halo 3 terminals suggested that humans had a prehistoric space empire. In fact they actually suggested the exact opposite of that. Humanity was a new, emerging race originally. It was a huge retcon on the Halo story. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 15:21
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The forerunners made cyborg bodies to defend themselves against the Flood. This tech didn't work and actually created soulless automatons. One of the forerunners, who hated humans because of the wars they fought when humans were running from the Flood, realized he could use this robot stuff to kill the humans and the Flood, and drat the consequences. The other forerunners realized he was an rear end in a top hat and trapped him inside the device that he would have used to kill the humans. Like a billion years later, he tricks Master Chief into releasing him. Master Chief takes care of it because he is a Mary Sue that was programmed by both other humans and somehow by the forerunners to be the peak of human evolution. Yeah you skipped over all the bullshit with the librarian, the composer and the 5+ minute monologue she has while explaining that humans were better than the forerunnhdiddormfhdu dolslnfbfudodm drh and all that retarded garbage that makes no sense without reading the awful books by greg bear.
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Oct 1, 2015 15:38
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The story in 1-3 was straight forward. Humans were decended from the Forunners and were left behind to inherit the galaxy after the Forunners were killed by the Halos stopping the flood. 1 and 2 hint at this and Guilty Spark flat out says it in 3. 343i completly retconned the entire Halo universe into a conveluted mess for no good reason.
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Oct 1, 2015 15:47
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Oh cool more random interpretations of the story with insistence that their interpretation is the correct one. Haven't had one of these in a while
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Oct 1, 2015 16:07
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Frankly I enjoyed Halo 4 as the first Halo game where the guns didn't sound like toys and the story, while awful, could actually be followed by a sane human being without the help of tie-in novels. No, you just had to watch those extra cutscenes that were only available on the main website.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:10
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MickRaider posted:Oh cool more random interpretations of the story with insistence that their interpretation is the correct one. Haven't had one of these in a while 1. Humans are the only species that can activate Forerunner technology. 2. 343 Guilty Spark calls the Master Chief "reclaimer". 3. The portal to the Ark is buried on Earth, under the geographic area where Humans evolved. 4. 343 Guilty Spark says this to the Master Chief: ""You are the child of my Makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner! But this ring... is mine!" You'd have to be blind or disingenuous to interpret the story any other way than what I said.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:14
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But the SEED! I don't really care about the story, but taking things at face value when the guilty spark says some weird things that wouldn't make sense if there wasn't some sort of didact trace in him is probably not wise. Especially the random poo poo gravemind tells them. I dunno, just go with it man. Does any of this really matter?
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Oct 1, 2015 16:17
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MickRaider posted:Oh cool more random interpretations of the story with insistence that their interpretation is the correct one. Haven't had one of these in a while MickRaider posted:I don't really care about the story Dude could you please just shut up? If you don't care then just shut up and let the rest of us talk about how bad it is. You are the worst 343i apologist imaginable. "This isn't that bad. I mean, I don't really understand it myself, and I don't care about it unlike you guys, but I'm just going to assume its fine"
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Oct 1, 2015 16:23
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I just think you're ridiculous for assuming you know the story as if you wrote it and there's no possible way bungie could have planned to confuse us with various interpretations of the story. The most obvious answer in a story is seldom the correct one.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:28
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MickRaider posted:But the SEED! What about that quote doesn't make sense to you? Guilty Spark literally spells out everything hinted at by the story dialog, no Didact necessary. It's not subtle. There are only multiple interpretations if you start considering all the needless additions and retconns 343i made.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:28
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MickRaider posted:I just think you're ridiculous for assuming you know the story as if you wrote it and there's no possible way bungie could have planned to confuse us with various interpretations of the story. Are you kidding me? Your answer for "the story makes no sense" is "the story makes sense to the original author and nobody else and was intended to be confusing" That is just as terrible!  Even if that was intentional, its still dumb. But I really doubt it was meant to confuse players.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:33
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"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed. " If the MC is not a "seed" of the didact then why would he talk to him as if he was didact. There's more examples of this but I doubt you'd actually care But you're right, all of you are right, this is right mkay. 343i just hosed up the story and bungie in no way had any part of what 343i was planning even though they had a bible of halo written and the guy who made halo still runs halo, but obviously you're right.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:34
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Zaphod42 posted:Are you kidding me? Your answer for "the story makes no sense" is "the story makes sense to the original author and nobody else and was intended to be confusing" The story is terrible. It's always been terrible. Don't know why you think it was ever good because it wasn't.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:34
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MickRaider posted:The story is terrible. It's always been terrible. Don't know why you think it was ever good because it wasn't. What? Halo 1's story makes perfect sense, is very easy to follow, has good characters and plot, and features a very classic sci-fi tale (even if partially stolen/inspired by Ringworld, etc.) The same is true for 2, 3, ODST, and Reach. 2's story has such a terrible cliffhanger that I considered it a "bad" story at the time, but compared to 4, 2 is a riveting tale that makes way more sense. Halo 4 is the only game that makes no goddamned sense and requires giant infodumps and long overly-expositional cutscenes like metal gear loving solid 4. All the other games are extremely intuitive by comparison.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1F8mfuFrkU shut up and watch some theories. Also halo 2 had a good story? That's a joke
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Oct 1, 2015 16:39
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MickRaider posted:"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed. " Because the MC is a Reclaimer. Spark is addressing him in a manner akin to the Royal We: as a representative of the Species. The Chief is not the only human who can activate Forerunner technology; he isn't a unique individual, Spark refers to all humans as reclaimers.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:41
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sunday at work posted:Because the MC is a Reclaimer. Spark is addressing him in a manner akin to the Royal We: as a representative of the Species. The Chief is not the only human who can activate Forerunner technology; he isn't a unique individual, Spark refers to all humans as reclaimers. Oh you wrote halo? Cool, how does it end?
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Oct 1, 2015 16:43
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MickRaider posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1F8mfuFrkU That's probably why he said it was a bad story and only better than 4.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:44
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MickRaider posted:Oh you wrote halo? Cool, how does it end? With the Chief and Cortana adrift in space awaiting rescue. Nothing I've said or quoted is the least bit ambiguous unless you are trying to defend 343i or make some point about how you think Halo's story is dumb but you don't care but other people should listen to you because you really do care but it's still dumb... or whatever the hell you are trying to do.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:45
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Just watch the dumb theory and open your brains to new theories instead of assuming that Halo ended with halo 3. Because they're making 1 more game after halo 5 so there's some story there. Even if you're convinced you're right there's still compelling arguments to be made about the cryptic way 343 guilty spark talks to the master chief from the very beginning of the story. That's why they're theories. Your interpretation is a theory, as is his, as is anyones. We didn't write it so we'll never know so stop being so high and mighty and assuming you have the only correct theory.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:49
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MickRaider you are completely missing the point. Halo 1 made sense on its own. Halo 4 is dumb on its own. That's all that matters, theories or not. Halo 4 makes sense maaaaybe if you accept all these crazy fan theories and read these books and put together--- But none of that matters because Halo 1 was good on its own. You didn't need fan theories. You didn't need books. It was just an entertaining sci-fi story. That's it. None of us are arguing that Halo 4 can't possibly make any sense in any way even if you tack on fan theories. We're saying its really stupid that it requires fan theories to patch the holes and explain why the gently caress things are the way they are. Its just a bad story. Its not interesting.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:51
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I'm not saying Halo 4 was a good story or that it made sense. I'm saying that what we thought to be true from Halo 1-3 probably wasn't because of a more complex underwriting than we could have deciphered from the little clues they gave us. That's why it's a long series, to flush out those details to try and make sense of it all. It's like Fiction 101 to have diversion tactics to confuse your reader so you can surprise them later on. When you miss the forest for the trees.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:53
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MickRaider posted:Oh you wrote halo? Cool, how does it end? He just said things that happen in the plot did you not play the first three games or something? quote:If the MC is not a "seed" of the didact then why would he talk to him as if he was didact. What is a didact seed
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Oct 1, 2015 16:54
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RBA Starblade posted:He just said things that happen in the plot did you not play the first three games or something? Why don't the covenant recognize humanity as the forerunner then? Maybe because they're not the forerunner? Just watch the stupid video and listen closely to what 343 guilty spark says in Halo 1. It doesn't make sense if you just assume humanity was forerunner. They probably did the same back fill of information that harry potter did, but that doesn't intrinsically mean it wasn't planned. RBA Starblade posted:What is a didact seed Play halo 4 again
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Oct 1, 2015 16:57
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MickRaider posted:Why don't the covenant recognize humanity as the forerunner then? Maybe because they're not the forerunner? Did you miss the parts of the campaign where the Elites figure out that the Prophets have been lying to them about everything for ages and then have a civil war about it with the rest of the covenant? That was like half of Halo 2 and 3. quote:Play halo 4 again I don't really want to do that campaign again.  e: Like Truth says exactly why the Covenant is murdering humanity without offering them a chance to join the bandwagon like everyone else, and it's because he knows what humanity is and it proves his lie. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 16:57
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MickRaider posted:I'm not saying Halo 4 was a good story or that it made sense. I'm saying that what we thought to be true from Halo 1-3 probably wasn't because of a more complex underwriting than we could have deciphered from the little clues they gave us. None of us care about that. All we care about is Halo 1-3 + ODST + Reach had a good story. Halo 4 has a bad story. That's it. Nice attempt at changing the topic and deflecting but all we were ever saying was that halo 4's story is dumb and confusing and uninteresting and ultimately you agree. FFS. "fiction 101 to have diversion tactics" You know what's fiction 101? Tell a loving interesting story. Yeah.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:59
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Do you want a cookie for pointing out that Halo 4 had a bad story? Or do you want to discuss halo 5 and it's potential for having an improved story. Oh wait, you've already decided that Halo 5 is going to be bad and I'm sure that attitude has potential for change. Or something.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:02
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Also in the crossover comics that take place between 4 and 5 they specifically call Halsey and the other Spartans that arrive to stop her at the Library "Reclaimers."
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Oct 1, 2015 17:03
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MickRaider posted:Why don't the covenant recognize humanity as the forerunner then? Maybe because they're not the forerunner? I watched the video. Everything in that video is based on events and ideas 343i added to the backstory. The whole theory presented in the video hinges on something that happens in a trilogy of books commissioned by 343i (4:05), not anything that happens in Halo1-3 and is only linked to the events of the original trilogy by that one line of dialog ("Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed.” - 'you' is the instance of the Royal We I mentioned earlier, Spark is essentially saying "you, the Forerunners asked me") Everything else discussed in the video is based on lore added by 343i. Like I said earlier, everything makes sense if you just accept Spark is referring to Chief in a version of the Royal We, as a Reclaimer acting for the species. As for "being with me as we managed this crisis" that is referring to the events of the levels you just played, where Chief helps Spark get the Index and reach the control room so Halo could be fired. For some reason the guy making the video seems to think this line is referring to events millions of years ago, but it's obviously not. Maybe 343i was trying to build on lines that existed before they took over. If so they did a poor job of it. You can come up with convoluted theories about how 343i’s narrative ties into a few random lines from the original trilogy (while ignoring everything else that happens) but it’s totally unnecessary to understand the story of the original trilogy. sunday at work fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 17:05
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Tensokuu posted:Also in the crossover comics that take place between 4 and 5 they specifically call Halsey and the other Spartans that arrive to stop her at the Library "Reclaimers." "Please use caution! This reclaimer is delicate." That was in reference to Miranda. "Firing sequence initiated. And may I say, Reclaimers, it has been a pleasure to serve you both. Goodbye." That was to Miranda and Johnson.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:07
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Regardless, this is where we are. This is where the story is going. If you are upset about it, there's absolutely nothing you can do. Either embrace it or don't play it. Those are your 2 options. I'm embracing it because for as little as I understood about Halo 4 (Pressing buttons) the new direction is... interesting That said I'll power through the campaign on heroic once and that's about all I'll do in campaign.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:09
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MickRaider posted:Regardless, this is where we are. This is where the story is going. If you are upset about it, there's absolutely nothing you can do. Either embrace it or don't play it. Those are your 2 options. I'm already not going to I still don't have an Xbone. I just like Halo's story. Well the parts Bungie did anyway.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:12
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Do not reply to MickRaider anymore as the fall of Halo as a franchise has either hopelessly broken him or he was never arguing in good faith to begin with
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Oct 1, 2015 17:13
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I actually really enjoyed the story from halo 1-3 
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Oct 1, 2015 17:13
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I do tend to enjoy playing devils advocate. But I also get caught up in stupid theories. Halos story was mediocre. Not nearly as interesting as classics like half life or more modern games like the last of us. Only interesting part was the stuff they ripped off from stories like Enders game Here's a video series I'd never seen before, must be from the halo wars games or something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWSJa-UxOOQ MickRaider fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 17:18
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Haquer posted:Yeah you skipped over all the bullshit with the librarian, the composer and the 5+ minute monologue she has ... Wasn't the terminal sidequest in H3 basically a sci-fi romance thing about how Didactu-Sempai and Liburarian-san were starcrossed lovers forever cleaved by the brutality of the Flood Wars and he dies on top of a sunny hill as he fired the Halo array but he's happy knowing she gabbed a bunch of hairy apes on Shieldworld and that they will reclaim the empire or somefuck? Cuz in Halo 4 it seems that they really hate each other.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:22
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MickRaider posted:Do you want a cookie for pointing out that Halo 4 had a bad story? Or do you want to discuss halo 5 and it's potential for having an improved story. I call em as I see em and if you look at my posting history in this thread, I've pointed out several things about Halo 5 that look good and bad. You're an insane 343i apologist. If you don't want to argue about Halo 4 having a bad story, shut the gently caress up when we say it had a bad story instead of arguing the point over and over and over. (Just to ultimately say "of course its bad" loving seriously dude)
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Oct 1, 2015 17:23
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