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Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



Oh its Gallifrey

Edit: Not Gallifrey.

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Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything


Fun Shoe

Skaro.

I'm really surprised we haven't seen Gallifrey again though.

just_a_guy
Feb 18, 2010

Look into my eyes!


Clara "you got exterminated"

Missy "I got better"

E. Maybe it won't play out like that after all

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


Teleport disguised as vapourisation. Again.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


That whole episode was a giant mess, but an incredibly enjoyable one.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Jerusalem posted:

That whole episode was a giant mess, but an incredibly enjoyable one.

agreeing with this.


I figured it was Skaro from the bow and arrow at the beginning, that image from Genesis is probably what I remember most from those episodes.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

That was pretty cool.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007
Simaggeddon



Like, while its really obvious that the deaths and destruction of the Tardis will get rolled back, it would be hilarious if that was the last we ever saw of Clara.

just_a_guy
Feb 18, 2010

Look into my eyes!


That is making me want it to be Saturday again. So... Excellent job. (Although I would rather a standalone to open the season

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


That was pretty fun but when it finished I was left with the sense that maybe ten minutes of episode had actually happened.

just_a_guy
Feb 18, 2010

Look into my eyes!


Dabir posted:

That was pretty fun but when it finished I was left with the sense that maybe ten minutes of episode had actually happened.

In the sense that time flew by or lack of content?

Attitude Indicator
Apr 3, 2009


good thing they managed to throw in some old classic enemies, unit, some old voice clips and some video of tom baker. I almost forgot this show was old and had a history.
other than that it was alright i guess, an enjoyable mess.

AttitudeAdjuster
May 2, 2010


What an awful loving mess.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


just_a_guy posted:

In the sense that time flew by or lack of content?

In the sense that it was over and I was surprised because I thought they'd barely got started.

Mr Beens
Dec 2, 2006


Was over too soon, if I didn't know in advance it was a two parter would be very confused. Should have had "part 1" as part of the title. According to the write up in the paper the second half wraps things up in a good way (I assume the press got to see both parts)

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Jumbled mess with some fun bits. And some quarries.
Nice to see the UNIT leader is still as useless as ever.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

Mr Beens posted:

Was over too soon, if I didn't know in advance it was a two parter would be very confused. Should have had "part 1" as part of the title. According to the write up in the paper the second half wraps things up in a good way (I assume the press got to see both parts)

Yes if only things could be more spoiled with fewer surprises.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


The unlimited rice pudding line always makes me laugh. Sylvester McCoy's delivery is hilarious.

Attitude Indicator
Apr 3, 2009


Mr Beens posted:

Should have had "part 1" as part of the title.

where's the fun in that?

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

just_a_guy posted:

That is making me want it to be Saturday again. So... Excellent job. (Although I would rather a standalone to open the season

Yeah, I'd like some kind of pure entertainment blockbuster opener before the dark and moody Plot Arc Two-Parter, like the prologue to a James Bond film.

Theme for this series is looking like it'll be being haunted by (possibly unexpected results of) past actions; the Doctor abandoned Davros and possibly played a part in setting him on the path to create the Daleks, there's spoilers for later in the series declaring the return of past villains and faces we've seen before.

I don't know where people are getting "mess" from, there was nothing really confusing or out of nowhere, but it did feel to me like not a lot actually happened; possibly Moffat's lost his touch at pacing two-parters and the interesting stuff will all be next week.

Chucat
Apr 14, 2006

Childrens' stories about witches and wizards, especially those written by middle-aged women, are an integral part of the current face of literature. I think you would do well to give them the respect they deserve.


Dabir posted:

That was pretty fun but when it finished I was left with the sense that maybe ten minutes of episode had actually happened.

Yeah this is like the opposite of half the episodes where I was thinking "drat I wish this was a two parter".

This one I was thinking "This better be a two parter because nothing seems to have happened."

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


2house2fly posted:

I don't know where people are getting "mess" from, there was nothing really confusing or out of nowhere,

It wasn't confusing, it was just that the story threw everything and the kitchen sink in and there was a lot of tonal whiplash as scenes seemed to get packed in like sardines.

As I said, I found it a very enjoyable mess, but a mess nonetheless.

just_a_guy
Feb 18, 2010

Look into my eyes!


2house2fly posted:

Yeah, I'd like some kind of pure entertainment blockbuster opener before the dark and moody Plot Arc Two-Parter, like the prologue to a James Bond film.

Theme for this series is looking like it'll be being haunted by (possibly unexpected results of) past actions; the Doctor abandoned Davros and possibly played a part in setting him on the path to create the Daleks, there's spoilers for later in the series declaring the return of past villains and faces we've seen before.

I don't know where people are getting "mess" from, there was nothing really confusing or out of nowhere, but it did feel to me like not a lot actually happened; possibly Moffat's lost his touch at pacing two-parters and the interesting stuff will all be next week.

While I need to see it again (lost 20 min fighting iplayer) I don't actually see pacing issues. Things moved at a fast clip and it ended on a cliffhanger that I hope will pay off next week.

Although I will say that doctor who is relying a bit too heavily on"moments" that make for a good clip show on YouTube and not enough focus on story and narrative cohesion.

I am not saying we need a season of myth arcs. I am saying we need more mummy on the orient express and flatline

Mr Beens
Dec 2, 2006


Squalitude posted:

Yes if only things could be more spoiled with fewer surprises.

I don't know what you mean?

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



just_a_guy posted:

In the sense that time flew by or lack of content?

All the planes have stopped is it a bomb is it an earthquake Panic panic whizzbang rushy rushy oh it's Missy that was easy planes are moving.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


2house2fly posted:

I don't know where people are getting "mess" from, there was nothing really confusing or out of nowhere, but it did feel to me like not a lot actually happened; possibly Moffat's lost his touch at pacing two-parters and the interesting stuff will all be next week.

There's a lot of hurried jumping to different locations, plot points which peter out almost instantly, and break-neck tonal shifts. And not really enough time for everything to sink in. It'll be easier to guage when the second part comes out, but yeah, there's a lot of ideas in this episode, but only a little seems to be relevant to the story they're trying to tell at the moment.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


Missy was pretty great but I didn't like how she kept going on with little interjections like "traps are my flirting" and "what if you kissed an ugly", like Moffat couldn't get through a scene without having her remind us she's a woman in case we all forgot. And as for "Davros made the Daleks, but who made Davros?" Well I dunno Doctor, possibly the thousand years of pointless, horrible war you were just going on about?

Ms Boods
Mar 19, 2009


Will have to watch again on iPlayer as I missed tons of dialogue as a result of Mr Boods starting a load of washing (his house is small, and has an open plan/lounge), and that washing machine is like having a goddamned jet plane hovering in the middle of the room. He did this every episode last series as well (not to drown out the episode, but because he comes in from his biking just before tea)

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

Dabir posted:

And as for "Davros made the Daleks, but who made Davros?"

Havent watched it yet, please don't tell me this is going to be this season's overall plot question.

As 99% the answer is going to be the Doctor himself.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

Mr Beens posted:

I don't know what you mean?

You're saying the episode should have had "part one" and then started talking about what the TV guide said for next week. I'm trying to emphasise that some of us don't want to know what to expect going into an episode. I know I'm a stupid luddite and should get with the times and just happily read the episode guide I saw in SFX earlier this week, but I just don't want to. But, as you so wonderfully put it, you just don't know what I mean.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


happyhippy posted:

Havent watched it yet, please don't tell me this is going to be this season's overall plot question.

As 99% the answer is going to be the Doctor himself.

I suspect it will be resolved by next week.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Squalitude posted:

You're saying the episode should have had "part one" and then started talking about what the TV guide said for next week. I'm trying to emphasise that some of us don't want to know what to expect going into an episode. I know I'm a stupid luddite and should get with the times and just happily read the episode guide I saw in SFX earlier this week, but I just don't want to. But, as you so wonderfully put it, you just don't know what I mean.

????

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

happyhippy posted:

Havent watched it yet, please don't tell me this is going to be this season's overall plot question.

As 99% the answer is going to be the Doctor himself.

It was rhetorical, the Doctor is indeed implying that he is partially responsible for who Davros became.

Mr Beens
Dec 2, 2006


Squalitude posted:

You're saying the episode should have had "part one" and then started talking about what the TV guide said for next week. I'm trying to emphasise that some of us don't want to know what to expect going into an episode. I know I'm a stupid luddite and should get with the times and just happily read the episode guide I saw in SFX earlier this week, but I just don't want to. But, as you so wonderfully put it, you just don't know what I mean.

I didn't know what you meant as your statement "Yes if only things could be more spoiled with fewer surprises." was pretty vague when I made a couple of different points in my post. I now know what you mean. I'm glad you thought I put it wonderfully, I put a lot of thought into my initial reply.

I hate spoilers, I just happend to notice that in the "whats on TV tonight" bit, the guy mentioned that the second part is really good. No spoliers.
If I didn't know that this was part one of a 2 parter I would have been incredibly confused - the epiosde, as other people have said, was poorly paced and just ended. The "cliffhanger" was really poo poo. Having 2 part stories flagged as such is pretty drat common in TV.

Another point, the music was loving awful. It was all over the place thematically and drowned out dialogue in multiple places.

Well Manicured Man
Aug 21, 2010

Well Manicured Mort

Oh hey a new episode of Doctor Who let's see what the Doctor is up to n

This episode reminded me of The Impossible Astronaut in a lot of ways. Hopefully next week's episode won't just ignore the entire cliffhanger and open up with a time skip.

Stabbatical
Sep 15, 2011



As a series of pictures and sounds in an order with an underlying meaning, I enjoyed watching it. I didn't think that it worked though. I knew it didn't when I swapped over to Dad's Army on BBC2 after and immediately felt more gripped by the scene where Mainwaring pressured Wilson into talking to Pike about his date to the war dance.

The Olde Englande arena was good as a funny bit of pissing around but I couldn't buy any of the serious stuff. Davros was played well, he's always a treat to see. I hope the second half picks up.

grobbo
May 29, 2014


just_a_guy posted:

While I need to see it again (lost 20 min fighting iplayer) I don't actually see pacing issues. Things moved at a fast clip and it ended on a cliffhanger that I hope will pay off next week.

Although I will say that doctor who is relying a bit too heavily on"moments" that make for a good clip show on YouTube and not enough focus on story and narrative cohesion.

I am not saying we need a season of myth arcs. I am saying we need more mummy on the orient express and flatline

Yeah, I think the two are pretty much conflated - the pacing issues and the grandiosity.

For instance, a much simplified version of tonight's plot could have seen the Doctor give himself up to Davros, after which Missy shows up and quickly recruits Clara, having learnt he's in terrible danger, and they track him down together. You can do it in three moves.

Instead, we went the long way around so that Clara can spot planes frozen in the sky, Missy can have a Mexican standoff, the Doctor can have a medieval rock-out - all of which is justified by the will business, which just doesn't convince (after countless episodes where he heads into certain death but *doesn't* send out a will, why now?).

It just felt a little...indiscriminate in its spectacle. After the initial hook, I'd been looking forward to a bit more of an atmospheric two-hander; the Doctor, in a dank room with a foe he believes is defeated and dying, talking about their actions and beliefs. Playing out the quiet endgame of their war (before the inevitable trap is sprung).

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


"Eight snipers firing really quickly at these specific parts of me will be enough to kill me and stop my regeneration, there, now you can talk to me in safety." - lying liar who lies

"OK, we'll believe you completely." - Earth's greatest line of defense against alien invasion.

J33uk
Oct 23, 2005


I've got to imagine we're going to see there's more going on than we've seen next week. Missy shows up out of the blue and her scheme to grab attention is just what she calls a simple trick? No artistry or scheme within scheme? The Doctor talking about how the Daleks imprisoned themselves inside of tanks fifteen minutes after showing up in a tank and making so much historical noise that UNIT can find him within thirty seconds of knowing what to look for? I imagine (and ultimately sincerely hope) there's something clever going on here that we're not seeing that will explain the seemingly chaotic nature of the events occurring.

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SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008





Missy is incredible.

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