Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«180 »
  • Locked thread
DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

Gimnbo posted:

My brother decided to join me since I was watching TV, and I never watch TV. It was his first episode of Doctor Who and I'm pretty sure it will be his last.

well that's his problem, frankly

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rochallor
Apr 22, 2010


I mean, it wasn't the most content-full episode of Doctor Who ever, but it's a season premiere. They're flashy, showy affairs. It's clearly setting stuff up for the next episode, which I'd expect to be more focused on a single story. It probably plays better for people watching for the first time, even.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Rochallor posted:

I mean, it wasn't the most content-full episode of Doctor Who ever, but it's a season premiere. They're flashy, showy affairs. It's clearly setting stuff up for the next episode, which I'd expect to be more focused on a single story. It probably plays better for people watching for the first time, even.

Oh no. No. Not at all.

This is a pretty terrible episode to try to watch first. Moffat goes full Who nerd on us in this episode and unloads a lot of poo poo that you wouldn't understand unless you've been watching since at least the 10th Doctor, with reckless abandon and a breakneck pace.

If this was my first episode of Doctor Who, I'd be very, very lost. This reeks of "This is a sequel to something" and is incomplete as its own thing.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


If he didn't at least like the guitar solo on the tank, he's hopeless anyway tbh

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

"I think you'll find that when it comes to Sandwich Montoya, the sky is the limit!"

- Too Much Mustard


The first episode of Who that I ever saw was part of Genesis of the Daleks in 1982. The Doctor v Davros story/argument has been the bedrock of my fandom from the beginning.

Tonight they brought it front and center again after 33 years as a fan. I was taken right back to that time, no matter what happens in Part Two they can't take that away.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

The whole tank party scene made me think of Rick Sanchez. Those two would really get along I think.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001




"Every time I come to this planet!"

I agree with a lot of the thoughts ITT, the episode did seem to be a lot of big setpieces, over the top montages that were written as cool scenes first and strung together in a barely there plot. Missy was fantastic, Davros was fantastic, but then again all the individual scenes were fantastic on their own.

Over the years people have pointed out that a lot of the ideas Moffat has used have been things he's been sitting on since the 90s or earlier. It's entirely possible that he might have run out of ideas, and his solution is just to do...this.

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010



Gimnbo posted:

My brother decided to join me since I was watching TV, and I never watch TV. It was his first episode of Doctor Who and I'm pretty sure it will be his last.

Yes, and?

Well Manicured Man
Aug 21, 2010

Well Manicured Mort

Maxwell Lord posted:

The whole tank party scene made me think of Rick Sanchez. Those two would really get along I think.

Tempo 119
Apr 17, 2006



It's a big universe Doc, surely there's more than one person called Davros

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

This was all a big misunderstanding, the kid is really Dave Ross and he grows up to be a CPA.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


1500 years ago: "Do I have the right?!"

2 days ago: "...well I do, but turns out it's not such a great idea."


e: god drat that was a fantastic episode, I don't care what anyone says. It's the first New Who that felt legitimately like the Old Who, only with a special effects budget.


e2: Oh missy you so fine

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Almost forgot the most important gif of all.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


Jerusalem posted:

Almost forgot the most important gif of all.



deedle deedle deedle

Also I am buying I, Davros now now RIGHT NOW BUYING IT NOW

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Astroman posted:

I agree with a lot of the thoughts ITT, the episode did seem to be a lot of big setpieces, over the top montages that were written as cool scenes first and strung together in a barely there plot. Missy was fantastic, Davros was fantastic, but then again all the individual scenes were fantastic on their own.

The moments and vignettes are great, but there's got to be some substance and cohesion behind them, or it just ends up running on fumes. And that's kinda the problem I have with this episode; it's either trying to reintroduce us to stuff that's going to become relevant for the rest of this series (in which case, it's been done in a super clumsy way, all disjointedly crammed in) . Or, none of it has any relevance, which means it's wasted potential.

There's simultaneously too much going on, and not enough going on. You've got Voldemort, "The Doctor's dying!", you've got Davros, " Davros is dying!", you've got Missy, you've got UNIT, space-police, sisters of eternal boredom, "Have I the right?", Daleks, etc, etc...

Or tl;dr

Strom Cuzewon posted:

All the planes have stopped is it a bomb is it an earthquake Panic panic whizzbang rushy rushy oh it's Missy that was easy planes are moving.

[e]:

Jerusalem posted:

Almost forgot the most important gif of all.



"The dog's unmentionables"

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Sep 20, 2015 around 03:45

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


This is one of the many, many times I never understand the First Rule of Doctor Who. It's like when I find out there are people who like are willing to excuse the Twin Dilemma.

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

put clinton in prison imo


Lipstick Apathy

Jerusalem posted:

Almost forgot the most important gif of all.



Proving beyond all doubt that the Master was always a brazen hussy There's some fun characterization going on in her conversations with Clara, continuing a theme of "bizarre ways Time Lords relate that we really don't want to understand".

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

Maxwell Lord posted:

The whole tank party scene made me think of Rick Sanchez. Those two would really get along I think.

WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB

[I am in great pain, please help me]

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I really enjoyed her contempt for Clara's sarcastic "It must be love" line, ripping into her for not being able to look beyond "reproductive urges" and getting in a dig at the "primitive" human race in the process.

I've always enjoyed the notion that the Doctor looks at his human companions like children - smart, enthusiastic people to be guided who can also teach him a thing or two/show him new perspectives etc, and how that is contrasted by the Master who just considers them "pets" (in the worst way), barely above animals, things whose function is to amuse or otherwise stave off loneliness. It showcases how different the Doctor is from regular Time Lords, including the Master who is a whole other kind of renegade.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


^^^
[e]: Yeah, that was a pretty great character moment. Gomez's delivery is perfect.

Chokes McGee posted:

This is one of the many, many times I never understand the First Rule of Doctor Who. It's like when I find out there are people who like are willing to excuse the Twin Dilemma.

Ah, just different tastes.

I just wanted it to stick to one thing, not jump all over the place - and some of the stuff would be basis enough for an episode by themselves. Obviously got to see where it's going, though.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Sep 20, 2015 around 03:44

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


Pesky Splinter posted:

Ah, just different tastes.

I just wanted it to stick to one thing, not jump all over the place - and some of the stuff would be basis enough for an episode by themselves. Obviously got to see where it's going, though.

Yeah, I know. You'd think I'd be used to it by now

This was very much an episode for the long long time viewer and probably not all that fun to come into the middle of, but god drat was it nice. The slow zoom on the Doctor's face when Davros tells him his name is just the dog's unmentionables.

SimplyCosmic
May 18, 2004

"The destruction of this planet would have no significance on a cosmic scale"


Jerusalem posted:

I get this weird sense that they're now somehow "lesser" than they were - more in line with the (still galaxies spanning) Empire/threat level they were during the Hartnell years.

I doubt anything will ever be mentioned about it, but I found it interesting that you had Imperial, Renegade and New Empire Daleks working together here, but no New Paradigm Daleks. Makes me wonder if there's a lot of unseen faction wars going on.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Gimnbo posted:

My brother decided to join me since I was watching TV, and I never watch TV. It was his first episode of Doctor Who and I'm pretty sure it will be his last.
Feel EPICALLY felt.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


SimplyCosmic posted:

I doubt anything will ever be mentioned about it, but I found it interesting that you had Imperial, Renegade and New Empire Daleks working together here, but no New Paradigm Daleks. Makes me wonder if there's a lot of unseen faction wars going on.
They like doing that a lot, actually.

The NP Daleks kinda got punted out the window after Victory.

Tempo 119 posted:

It's a big universe Doc, surely there's more than one person called Davros
I had it in my mind that was going to be the gag in all this but given Davros has the screwdriver I don't think that's what they're going for.

ewe2 posted:

Tennant: "I would have done it but more Scottishly!"
Speaking as a Scott myself I'm not quite sure how much more Scottish you can be than riding into middle ages Essex in a tank and casually causing time paradoxes with puns, lexicon and electric guitar solos whilst on what is essentially an "Oh gently caress, I'm going to die" bender (We need to see more of those, Ten's was largly off screen but it sounded like a blast )

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at Sep 20, 2015 around 05:09

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

Jerusalem posted:

Almost forgot the most important gif of all.



Oh goddammit I owe my girlfriend five bucks, because noticed it, I didn't, and I said "there's no way they'd let an actress tickle Dalek Bumps."

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?



The Doctor noticed Clara in the audience because of her extremely wide face.

dirksteadfast
Oct 10, 2010


While I second the sentiment that they shouldn't overuse Michelle Gomez, she was, without a doubt, the best thing on all of television tonight.

Rannos22
Mar 30, 2011

Everything's the same as it always is.


This would have been a really good episode if there wasn't a whole lot of dead air between bits where all the momentum built up from the last scene fizzled out and had to be built back up again. It felt a lot like riding along with a first time driver on their first lesson. Lots of starting and stopping to the point of feeling queasy.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

It was a glorious mess. Missy's needlessly complicated plan was to stop thousands of planes and freak out everyone on earth, so Unit would find Clara, so Clara could hear the message from Missy, and then Unit would transport Clara, snipers and security mooks to the mediterranean for a quick chat. And it was all completely unnecessary since Missy knows exactly where Clara lives and could have dropped in for a chat at will.

I love all the pointless vignettes too. It shows that there are stories and adventures going on all around us and only a tiny fraction of them ever make it into the show. It sparks the imagination. What is a suicide moon? Why is a service Ood in a bar? When did Clara get the chance to judge Jane Austen's kissing ability? Does the sisterhood just stand around on rocks all day so they can be mysterious if someone drops in? It's fantastic.

Wolfechu
May 2, 2009

All the world's a stage I'm going through


Just got done watching the episode, and I don't know if it's our TV, or they've changed the sound mixing or something, but Jesus Christ, Murray Gold was just stamping on half the dialogue.

I haven't even complained once about the incidental music in the last ten years, but we had to watch several scenes multiple times to figure out what people were saying, Davros particularly. We ended up watching the last ten minutes with closed captioning on.

Other than that, really enjoyed the episode.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



Rochallor posted:

Dalek laser beams usually do a color invert and then have the bodies fall to the floor, but they both got disintegrated. Which could, I suppose, be another secret teleport, albeit with skeletons.

Ostensibly that was because she didn't just get exterminated, she got MAXIMUM EXTERMINATEd

SiKboy posted:

Today I will be talking ot you from the square window; A lovely reference that will fly over the heads of young people and colonials.

As a colonial, using the square window just solidifies her as evil. Arch Window 4 lyfe.

NarkyBark
Dec 7, 2003

one funky chicken


Oh no, why did I notice the gun nozzle rising up as she did that

I have very little reaction to that episode, mainly due to the tonal whiplash. The guitar hero stuff felt entirely out of place with how the episode started. I feel like the comedy should have been left to Missy, I think her being nutty would've added enough humor in a way that would be more tonally pleasant.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

For reasons I can't really well define (and prolly isn't supported by canon), I like to think that off-screen the Master and the Doctor have run into each other a dozen times and, realizing they aren't working at cross purposes, help each other out.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



I assume what's in the confession dial will come up again.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


1

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


It was going to be a 2 and then I thought "Would I rather watch that again or The Underwater Menace (the most recent serial I watched, which was a 2) again?".

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Jerusalem posted:

the crude, brute-force time travel they developed for stories like The Chase.

Which is an interesting retcon because the Dalek's time machine was explicitly better than the TARDIS in The Chase

Megaspel posted:

They even hosed up just reversing his 12 lifespan-lifespan or whatever "oh no I'm dead, oh whoops no I'm not lol" in like an instant.

That wasn't even a thing, it was brought up and then resolved in the old series and the fandom has grabbed onto it as an immutable rule (unlike the other million billion Time Lord special abilities that have been mentioned and then ignored).

EccoRaven posted:

I figured it was Skaro from the bow and arrow at the beginning, that image from Genesis is probably what I remember most from those episodes.

Or maybe the fact that Davros was there

Chokes McGee posted:

e: god drat that was a fantastic episode, I don't care what anyone says. It's the first New Who that felt legitimately like the Old Who, only with a special effects budget.

As someone who's watched 72 Doctor Who serials in the last month, it really really really really didn't.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007
Simaggeddon



MikeJF posted:

As a colonial, using the square window just solidifies her as evil. Arch Window 4 lyfe.

You sir can stay. You have good opinions.

I enjoyed that episode. It wasnt exactly plot heavy, but I enjoyed the things that happened one after another. My main critisim would be that the guitar bit went on just a little too long and should have been shaved down a bit. As always with a 2 parter I am reserving overall judgement until after I've seen the whole thing, but unless it fumbles the second half really badly I think I'm still going to be positive about this one or at worst neutral.

I am amused by people who think that Missys plan was over-complicated to just get to talk to Clara. Of course it was, Missy is still after all the Master, we should just be grateful that she wasnt inexplicably in yellowface.

MisterBibs posted:

Oh goddammit I owe my girlfriend five bucks, because noticed it, I didn't, and I said "there's no way they'd let an actress tickle Dalek Bumps."

Just say it; She was tickling its balls. That is the joke they were going for, why be coy now?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Which is an interesting retcon because the Dalek's time machine was explicitly better than the TARDIS in The Chase

Yeah but that was only because the Daleks sacrificed their ability to do basic math easily in order to get it to work.

In all seriousness though, I haven't watched it for a while but I kinda recalled the Daleks only being able to follow the path that the Doctor was taking in his TARDIS, and the only time it actually goes anywhere ahead of the TARDIS is when the Doctor gets inside and programs it to return Ian and Barbara to 1963 (and he screws that up too!)?

Of course a lot of this is just subject to interpretation since I doubt any long-term forward planning went into The Chase, and they just wanted a reason for the Daleks to be able to follow the Doctor into a number of different historical scenarios. I just generally get a sense that the Daleks' time-travel is more akin to the Vortex Manipulators than the TARDIS (which maybe means inside the Dalek casing they're frequently feeling nauseous!).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

They smelled of pubs, and Wormwood Scrubs, and too many right-wing meetings.

So I twatted them with a magic yo-yo. Because, hell, why not?


Just realised that Missy subtextually used the "dogfucker" analogy.

I was in two minds about this episode. The good bits (the opening, anything intentionally dramatic, any bit with Davros) were very good, but the rest ranged from "silly" to "cringingly silly". Tonal whiplash, as has been said. And I'm still not a fan of Missy for the same reason I dislike Moffat's Moriarty - "how do I show that this person is a dangerous psychopath? I know, I'll write them as a LOLsorandom cross between the Joker and Robin Williams on a coke binge."

  • Locked thread
«180 »