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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
1500 years ago: "Do I have the right?!"

2 days ago: "...well I do, but turns out it's not such a great idea."


e: god drat that was a fantastic episode, I don't care what anyone says. It's the first New Who that felt legitimately like the Old Who, only with a special effects budget.


e2: Oh missy you so fine :allears:

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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Jerusalem posted:

Almost forgot the most important gif of all.



deedle deedle deedle

Also I am buying I, Davros now now RIGHT NOW BUYING IT NOW

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
This is one of the many, many times I never understand the First Rule of Doctor Who. It's like when I find out there are people who like are willing to excuse the Twin Dilemma. :magical:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Pesky Splinter posted:

Ah, just different tastes. :)

I just wanted it to stick to one thing, not jump all over the place - and some of the stuff would be basis enough for an episode by themselves. Obviously got to see where it's going, though.

Yeah, I know. You'd think I'd be used to it by now :D

This was very much an episode for the long long time viewer and probably not all that fun to come into the middle of, but god drat was it nice. The slow zoom on the Doctor's :stonk: face when Davros tells him his name is just the dog's unmentionables.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Amongst the many things I love about that episode, the best is the look of absolute horror on Missy's face when she realizes she's on Skaro. Like, up until that point it's been all fun and games insanity let's kill all the lesser lifeforms, and then it's, oh poo poo, I remember this, it's the thing I ran all the way to the end of the universe from.

Acne Rain posted:

all things aside and having the usual mess of too many ideas, this was a fun ride that probably won't hold up to a second viewing but I have just one question. Just one.

Why does davros have a guy made of snakes

Why wouldn't he? :shrug:

e: lil' davros for newest companion make that poo poo happen Moffet

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

SiKboy posted:

I'm just kind of glad he was made of snakes.

Welp, here it is. We've used this sentence unironically in an actual conversation. Shut down all of human speech, it's downhill from here.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
What's going to be awesome is when after raving about this episode for days the second part comes out and I hate every second of it, because Doctor Who Fandom. :)

Diabolik900 posted:

If you say so.
                      /

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
"It was great"
"Great? GREAT?! It was terrible!"
"GREAT"
"TERRIBLE"
"EXTERMINATE, EXTERMINATE THE RATINGS"


I say this unironically: Thank gods it's Doctor Who season again. :allears:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Burkion posted:

Yeah though they seem to have replaced the entirely metal city with a lot of stone for some reason.

That's not a major thing by any stretch, but it kind of bugs me with everything else. One of the most unique ideas about that dead city was that it was totally made of metal.

Also that it was radioactive as gently caress but you know, I guess the Daleks just left that out of Skaro 3.0

I've always thought the history in The Daleks was changed dramatically by the Doctor screwing around with their timeline in Genesis, followed by the Time War screwing further with their history, to the point where you can pretty much make Skaro a bunch of skyscrapers with a vibrant coffee house community and it still falls pretty well within belief.

---

As I've mentioned before, I absolutely loving loved these episodes and felt like they fit together perfectly; the only (minor) issue I had was with the cliffhanger, because everyone who had seen a minute of Doctor Who in the past knew he was going to fry all the hand mines and save Lil' Davros. :rolleyes: Sure, Clara and Missy fell in too well together---but isn't that part of the Master's M.O.? Even the Doctor admits that s/he's probably the closest person to him. The Master has always been oddly charming, even at his/her most bonkers; most sociopaths are. the Delgado incarnation was especially indicative of that, and even Jacobi's incredibly brief onscreen stint had a certain air of dignified gravitas to it.

The best of the two-parter, in my opinion, was Davros and the Doctor's interactions. I agree that everything Davros said before "Let me see the sun rise" was genuine; he legitimately gave the Doctor the greatest gift he could think of, the thing he assumes he always wanted deep in his hearts---total Dalek genocide. Now that there was nothing left for him, he wanted to finally let the Doctor correct the "mistake" he made during Genesis to return the kindness shown to him as a child. When the Doctor rejects it, oh well, he tried, guess you gotta fall back to what you know in times like these!

The scene that'll stick with me is Davros' genuine (imo) and excited "I am happy for you!" when he finds out Gallifrey is still out there. It was simultaneously alien (given Davros' eugenics and fascism) and incredibly touching, because we've never seen any emotion out of Davros other than madness and hate. That, the chair gag, and the two of them cracking up at Davros' quip. It reminded me of Batman and Joker from the end of The Killing Joke; they're both beaten down physically and emotionally, there's nothing left in the tank for either of them, and it's a rare shared moment of truce between two mortal enemies which exposes what little humanity (er, Kaledmanity?) that's left in him. Most shocking is that he even has it a bit left in the first place.

:words: help I am a nerd

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

TinTower posted:

Just expanding this further:

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Davros! And I am the creator of the beasts incarnate, THE. DALEKS!!!!"


ska-ro ci-ty clap clap clapclap oh god you shot me I'm dead

Also:

quote:

I'm here! You're here! Let's. EXTERMINAAAATE?!

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.


This had me giggling like an idiot when it happened. :shobon:

Also because of this episode I've now learned how to swear in ASL. Thanks, Cass!

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Tempo 119 posted:

Flapping buttcheeks

He calls that the Rear View (in two simultaneous voices)

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

jivjov posted:

Wait...why is he wearing the gun belt? He doesn't actually put that on til after the regeneration

That's a very excellent question, and if you look over there at that enormously distracting thing, I believe you'll find your answer.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Cleretic posted:

I wasn't sure about it at first, but my god does Capaldi pull off the sunglasses and guitar. It actually does really well at pulling together that last season, while generally consistent and high-quality, didn't quite 'click' with everyone. Like some people, both in the audience and in the writing staff, weren't quite sure how Capaldi's Doctor works.

But now that he's got those, suddenly it all sits perfectly. It's not a change to the character so much as giving a focus and label to who he was in the first place. Suddenly Twelve is an aging rock star, his days of youthful rebellion past him but still with that same spirit. He's gotten on in years, so he's stopped caring about how he comes across, but that doesn't mean he's not a genuine person deep down.

None of that is different to how he was played last season, but the guitar and sunglasses give it a context that helps ground it all. And I love it SO MUCH.

A thousand times this. New Doctors always need a season under their belt to get a grip on the character. It makes sense from a storypoint standpoint as well, because the Doctor himself is trying to figure out who he is this time around---but usually by about season 2, they become The Doctor instead of A Guy Who Always Wanted to Be the Doctor. (Even with Six, he was finally starting to go in that direction, i.e. his furious speeches during "Trial," before they cut out C-Bakes' legs out from under him.)

It's a big part, sometimes you need time to nail it down. That's why it's doubly impressive when you get a guy like Smith, who basically pseudo-regenerated after Eleven lost Amy, going from a happy-go-lucky dork in a bowtie to a cranky old young man in a Joker waistcoat. I think the only one who really nailed it start to finish was Pertwee; even Baker needed some time to get going, if only to get his stories out of UNIT and back into the wild.

So yes, I'm really happy Capaldi's finally got a handle on his Doctor-ness. It's effortless now, let the good times roll :allears:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

A Saucy Bratwurst posted:

Am I the only one who finds Capaldis doctor being almost autistic to be incredibly annoying? We've just had however many in a row that are all able to be around people and understand people, and this ones just a big oval office who's forgotten everything about his past lives? Its not well done at all, its way too try hard.

One, Three, Six, and Nine were all dickheads to humans and had to slowly get used to interacting with them again. This is nothing new.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

CobiWann posted:

The same could be every thread on this forum except Monday Night RAW.

Let's Play is pretty good :shobon:

But yeah, read the Raw GDT, best entertainment on the forums. Just don't actually watch the show or read the discussion afterwards :shepface:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

thexerox123 posted:

So, rewatching the part where he realizes why he has that face.... who would be out there, listening, and having a problem with the Doctor breaking the rules of time?

I guess Gallifrey is back again, but even when the Time Lords were gone, he was wary of breaking the rules of time.

The Reapers showed up last time he Screwed Up Time Real Bad<tm>, and the Guardians are probably still a thing.

More than likely, though, it's just a crazy old man shaking his fist at the heavens.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Nah, their answer to a paradox is "okay, go tell one of the engineering teams they've got work to do :sigh:".

"This one's bad. Better get the Doctor Cleanup Corps."

*cut to guys with 1000 yard stares and funny hats, one twitches slightly, the rest sigh in defeat*

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

The two that spring to mind are the guards in Vengeance on Varos that the Doctor dumps into an acid bath, and opening the tomb in Tomb of the Cybermen. Lot of innocent people died in that latter one, totally predictably.

Hold up now. Six didn't dump that guy in, he tapped him on the shoulder and he fell in on his own.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Oh man oh man I get to the be contrarian person on an episode I've waited so long for this :neckbeard:

ahem ahem ahem







I did not like anything about that episode.






Okay that's not 100% true. :shobon: But overall, it was a real bad episode with some really painful "humor" that nevertheless led to some amazing moments. The Doctor instructing Ashildr for five minutes on why you need a companion before you go absolutely batty in the head made up for the rest of the fluff.

Something bad is going to happen to Clara though :smith:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Mortanis posted:

Appreciating an actress' talents == obsession. You're projecting a bit if you honestly think people that believe Maisie is a decent actress are just putting up some front, as if everyone secretly knows she's poo poo but because she's on GoT we all give a nod and a wink to each other and pretend like she's not.

She's great. Maybe not your thing, but don't start making GBS threads on other people because we think she's got skill.

I can see you care very deeply about Game of Thrones.

Whereas I, on the other hand, do not. :smug:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

twistedmentat posted:

I guess Doctor Who is very Lovecraftian in its origonal sense; its a universe filled with immensely powerful beings that we and other lesser races are nothing more than ants to, and it is cold and uncaring. It seems like the Time Lords during the Time War were pretty much that level of power and arrogance.

We can't just wake Cthulhu up! There's paperwork involved! And hats! :mad:

e: Seriously though it's right there. Omega/Rassilon used some sort of weird orby thing to communicate to "lesser races" in the past and it got interpreted as Yog-Sothoth. Because Time Lords Don't Interfere<tm>, they're locked outside known time and space.

Boom.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Can we make this probatable

this but lungbarrow

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Namtab posted:

This season is very boring, the opposite of what doctor who should be!

Counterpoint: It's actually you who are the boring one.

Your move. :smuggo:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Well played, CobiWann. Well played indeed.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
I liked that episode a whole lot. Does that make me a terrorist :ohdear:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

whatsabattle posted:

Jesus, Sylvester.



It was part of the plan this entire time :heysexy:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
I didn't have a problem with that episode but now I hate it for making this thread suck. :eng99:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

cargohills posted:

Everybody I know personally thought this episode was alright. :shrug:

Shouting into the void, my friend. :smith::hf::smith:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
That was a loving fantastic monologue, and here's why: It resolved a theme that has been kicking around since the second episode after he regenerated. Why does this Doctor hate soldiers so much? Why does he question his morality? Why did he mention in the bank heist episode that he hated the engineer? The self-loathing for acts he committed during the Time War finally spilled over into plain view, and we finally have an admission that, while he didn't hit the button on the Moment, the War Doctor still did some very bad things. I didn't even care about the little jabs at Zygella Bonnie, because Capaldi sold the poo poo out of finally admitting to everyone a previous incarnation was a humongous war criminal and he's giving Bonnie what he's always wanted: forgiveness for it and a chance to set things right.

The new Osgood was wearing Seven's outfit, right? That makes it all part of the plan :tinfoil:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Carbon dioxide posted:

Because the show isn't about the Tardis, it's about Doctor Basil Disco.

Man, the new Dr. Who and the Daleks remake got weird.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Jerusalem posted:

The point is that there are two Osgoods - one is definitely a Zygon, the other one MIGHT be a Zygon OR a human, and that is the important thing. They can't judge her/dismiss her as "one of them" because she might be one of their own - Is she a human saying all this nice stuff about cooperation/togetherness or is she a Zygon? They don't know, and that is important, and as Osgood says she'll only reveal which she is when the answer is no longer important, when all humans and Zygons look at each other as equals and not "us vs them".

For me, I think it would be quite wonderful if the pairing meant to represent the peace between human and Zygon was actually two Zygons.

Well, and the other thing is, they're twins. How are you going to know which is which after they wander off from talking to the doctor? They could just change outfits or just wear a different one like Six's coat.

Either of them could be the Zygon Osgood. Anyone could be. You could be! It's you, isn't it? TELL ME WHERE THE BOXES ARE!

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

ewe2 posted:

Just let Zygons be Zygons.

I think I have a migraine from this now.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Diabolik900 posted:

You obviously haven't been around these threads very long if you think this season is disliked.

Edit for a little more content: Every week right after a new episode airs there is a rush of posts from people giving their high level "I liked/disliked it" assessments. Then for the next week the discussion tends to get dominated by the people who didn't like it (even if they were the minority). Then two or three times a season someone will come in and complain that nobody else likes it, and someone will have to explain all of this. This has happened every year since I began watching the show.

"Why is this show focusing on the old guy, Ian's the real star here"

-The Very First Doctor Who Fan, Probably

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Jerusalem posted:

It looked amazing at the screening I went to as well, and I didn't have any issues with hearing dialogue.

Thirded. I didn't actually notice much of the 3-D outside of the Stasis Slices or whatever they were called so it clearly wasn't distracting. Line was backed out the door, I've never seen so many nerds in one place.

A young girl in a TARDIS dress told me she loved my Bad Wolf shirt, I told her to chase people around shouting VWORP VWORP :allears:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Rochallor posted:

I irrationally despise the VWORP VWORP. It's the least accurate onomatopoeia since SNAP-HISS for lightsaber.

Whssssr would be better, but there's also no good onamotopoeia for dragging keys across the inside of a piano through a distortion filter, so here we are.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

They should replace the political compass with a watch of The Zygon Invasion.

I thought the UK was a signee of the Geneva Convention?

I actually like the episode but couldn't resist

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Not in that photo

He's the one on the right

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
That was basically "John Carpenter's Doctor Who" and it was pretty rad at a superficial level, especially the bit at the end. Taken in the context of a waking nightmare (which makes sense, given the title!) it works together very well: the constant viewpoint shifts, the wonky jumpcuts to random shots, colors changes, the Doctor breaking the fourth wall about being in a story, the Doctor screaming how none of this makes any sense as he dives into the TARDIS (which then gives us a full-color camera view after the TARDIS has disappeared!)... Then the final ending, with a good old fashioned "coming after the viewer" ending and disturbing final scene of Rasmussen claiming victory over the viewer while melting away into sand. It's experimental and somewhat brain-bending to think about, and I applaud them for pushing the envelope. It reminded me of what Big FInish does when they play with their medium, like in Flip Flop or Scherzo. There was a lot going on here to like...

...which is a shame, because some of it feels accidental, and not much of it ties together. The gimmicks are plenty but not cohesive. We spend most of the episode heading towards Blair Witch, make a quick and unexpected pit stop at Inception, then—surprise!—it was Videodrome all along. And maybe that's the biggest condemnation: all of these tricks have been done before, and with greater nuance. Here, they were tossed in wholesale to let God sort it out.

If you turn off your brain and just appreciate the aesthetic experience, it's a cacophony of visual anxiety that ties tightly with the ending for a pretty disturbing ride. Put one iota of critical thought into it, though, and you realize it's all parlor tricks on top of a script that Peter Chung would be proud of. (And that's not a complement.) I get what they were trying to do, but they reached just a little farther than they could actually grasp. Imma still give the episode 6.5/10 because the attempt was daring, everybody played their role well enough, and I liked how the last 10 minutes or so go straight to hell, especially with the final broadcast from Rasmussen. It's just a shame those three things couldn't be held together by an actual story.

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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

HD DAD posted:

It's me. I have Marco Polo.

you monster

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