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Well, guess we're opening this thread with a confirmation. Jenna Coleman's leaving. It'll be a shame, but I think that she's had a good run. Plus, leaves the door wide open for Shona to be here next season.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Guys, you're all forgetting the best part of this episode. Classic 60's-Skaro white-and-blue Daleks That has to be the prop from An Adventure in Space and Time, right? That was great to see. Can I ask for a quick tally on what sorts of Daleks were actually in that room? I could recognize the 60s Dalek, the black Dalek from the Cult of Skaro, and the New Who Standard Daleks, but I know there's more. I quite liked this episode as it was going, although it's one of those two-parters that clearly feels like half of a story. Not much actually happens, although it's pretty clear that a lot of stuff WILL happen, and it stops right when it should be kicking off. It's still a good opener, but it's one of the ones that leaves you wanting for the other half out of clearly not getting it, rather than legitimately wanting more. Really liking Missy as a supporting character rather than an antagonist, though, she's probably what made the whole thing enjoyable rather than disappointing. I'll also say this feels a lot like an RTD episode. Time Heist from last season looked like one, but this one's legitimately structured like how he did episodes, especially finales. And I was thinking of that even before the Shadow Proclamation turned up. The fact we've pretty much blown almost every noteworthy, possibly spoiler-ish story thing we knew from pre-season honestly bodes well in my mind; we knew about Missy, we put together Skaro, there were whispers of Davros... but we're getting most of that out of the way in the first two weeks, who the gently caress knows where we're going after the next episode! One last thing: Not sure why, but I really liked how Clara looked this episode. Must be the hair and jacket together, it just works.
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Sep 20, 2015 12:22
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2house2fly posted:There isn't really any minutiae of canon in the episode, I don't once remember thinking "I wish I watched the old shows because I don't have any context for this". The closest anyone's going to come to that is Davros showing up with no introduction but Davros is one of those cultural osmosis things everyone knows about, like Darth Vader or Klingons or Vodka Martini Shaken Not Stirred. I'm not sure I'd say Davros is that much of a big figure, you kind of have to go through a couple layers of Doctor Who knowledge to get to him. I always looked at the four seasons of RTD Who as introducing the biggest villainous features of Doctor Who in descending order of notoriety, and Davros does come out behind the Master, at the start of the figures you probably don't know too well if you've never watched the show. But at the same time, they give pretty good context. Sure, if you don't know Davros' name then the opening is a little lost on you, but one look at him and you recognize that he's sitting in a Dalek-style seat so he's probably involved with them, and the fact he's really old and weary and the Doctor gets shaken by his name clues you in that he's probably an authority or origin figure of some sort before anyone even says it. The clips from earlier confrontations give you confirmation that he's an old enemy of the Doctor (and the fact we get a good look at both Baker and Tennant, the most publicly-recognizable Doctors), but they aren't depicted in a way that requires you to know what actually happened. Skaro could be a little lost on you, because we haven't really seen it over the revival, but I think the screeching Dalek probably gives you the evidence to know what it is pretty quickly. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 14:53
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jng2058 posted:It failed the Immediate Re-Watch Test. I didn't feel particularly compelled to watch it again the way I had "The Eleventh Hour" or even "The Impossible Astronaut". It feels less than the sum of its parts. The are individual scenes and performances I quite enjoyed, but taken as a whole it seemed not to tell much of a coherent story. It's one of those halves of a two-parter that fails to tell a story by itself. Compare to Dark Water: it's all leading up to Missy revealing who she is and letting the Cybermen loose on the streets, but there's self-contained pieces to it. The mystery of 3W sustains through the episode, we see Clara and Danny both coping with Danny's death. And while it all flows into the next episode, there's things going on in it that carry it without Death in Heaven. Magician's Apprentice isn't that. It's the first half of a two-parter, and it feels like it. None of the things it brings up are really resolved in the episode itself, it's all leading into the next episode. That kind of means that, by itself, we have to latch onto those individual elements because we don't have the context to appreciate the episode on its whole. It might be worth a rewatch heading immediately into next week's episode, and I really hope they hold together really well as a package. But by itself, Magician's Apprentice is half a story and feels like it.
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Sep 20, 2015 18:09
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Unrelated to everything about the situation except that it involves Clara, I honestly kind of liked that she told everyone to take out their phones and check Twitter, in a classroom. If I'm right and kids are still largely not supposed to have their phones in class (which was at least true when I graduated six years ago), this is a pretty perfect image of how that works in schools. Sure, the phones are supposed to be confiscated if they're brought into class, but everyone does it anyway. And she does it after getting a kid to spit out his gum, into a bucket that's got a bunch of gum in it, so it's clear she's not a lax teacher or anything.
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Sep 21, 2015 08:36
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CaptainYesterday posted:
It's respectable. I don't know what exactly it was up against, but I'm looking at the overall ratings for the night and it came eighth, with five of the ones above it being various station's news shows. Of the non-news programs, it was only beaten by the X Factor, a TV movie about Peter Allen, and The Block; the X Factor and the Peter Allen movie were on the same station, so at worst it came third. Not bad for the ABC.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:23
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MikeJF posted:Does it include the iView ratings? Doctor Who in particular has always performed very well on iView. No, I was looking at the raw TV ratings for the night. I don't know if there's a way to check iView ratings, but even if I did I wouldn't be able to compare to anything but other ABC shows. It wouldn't give anyone an idea of where it stands in comparison to anything, especially since ABC1's only other ratings heavy-hitter that I can think of is Gruen. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 09:43
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Grouchio posted:Is there a reason why doctor who initial ratings are so low? Ratings across the board are pretty low. It's settled into its usual spot relative to other shows, but those shows have lower ratings too. If the audience has gone online then Doctor Who stands to benefit from that, since it's always been very popular with online platforms. Episode was okay. Not great, needs the second part to the story, but has some fun moments.
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Sep 23, 2015 03:58
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Rhyno posted:Edit: I mean come on, it's not like it could be worse than the loving tree episode. The worst part is that at this point, it's now possible to ask which loving tree episode.
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Sep 23, 2015 07:12
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Or even better, just start working on some convoluted nefarious plot and he'll turn up all on his own. I'm sure that's happened at some point, right? Somebody's started up some big, convoluted and highly visible plan, which we later find out is solely a way to get the Doctor to turn up so he can look at a real, although much more minor problem?
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Sep 23, 2015 16:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:This one was a much more fun episode and much better written. My favourite moment had to be the Doctor wheeling out in Davros' chair and declaring "admit it, this is your worst nightmare! I feel like a lot of these two episodes were probably filled in by Capaldi. Not in full, the gist of the plot was probably there, but I feel like Capaldi had a lot of input on seeing scenes like this happen. This is kind of a weird two-parter, structurally. Last week's episode was one that really needed its second part to complete the story, but this episode barely needed the previous at all. I mean it does need it, if only for context, but it almost works as a standalone just because so few questions it raises were answered in the first. That's not a bad thing, but it does enforce that feeling that this might have been planned as a movie-length opener. I think my favorite part, doing no disservice to the rest of the episode, was The Only Other Chair On Skaro.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:14
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Plus, this was always going to be a rough week for Who in immediate local. It was up against England vs. Wales in the rugby (I think? I'm neither British nor watch sports), as I understand it that is one hell of a death slot to have.
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Sep 27, 2015 16:40
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Craptacular! posted:I was hoping at the end either the Daleks or preferably Davros himself would get an all new physical appearance that wasn't influenced by the ancient bad old days of the BBC props department; I dunno, I think Davros' design is pretty much perfect for him. He looks really old, but in a way that looks nicely alien without either of those two elements overpowering the other. And maybe it was the weakness of the props department that led to that, sure, but what we've got now is exactly what it should be.
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Sep 28, 2015 07:05
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I actually liked Closing Time, it stands as honestly one of the better Cyberman episodes of the new series (which, yeah I know, doesn't say much). They aren't some monolithic force, marching their way into converting others and being a big scary army--not that I think there's anything wrong with that depiction of them necessarily, but very rarely do we get to see that smaller, more horror-focused part to them. They're just doing their own thing; uncompromising in doing so, they just keep chugging along, converting people because that's what they do. It could have done better to fit into the story and be properly affecting, admittedly. Closing Time matches The Lodger in more than just the presence of Craig: they're both the story of the Doctor busting into some random dude's life, and largely solving the problem in the background while most of the story focuses on interpersonal stuff, until we let both parts of the story crash through into each other at the end, letting one of them solve the other. The Cybermen don't manage to hold up their side of that; they do an admirable job, but they really don't get to sell the resolution. It could've worked if they pushed Craig's conversion a little harder, but as it stands it just doesn't really work.
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Oct 3, 2015 07:32
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We are living in an alternate universe composed of some weirdo's fantasy-casting, where late 70s-early 80s pop-punk rocker Peter Capaldi went into acting instead and somehow got the role of the Doctor. This is the only explanation for how he can look this cool as a CGI ghost. This is a really good episode, and one of the rare pieces of a two-parter that feels like, even if the second part lets it down, is solid enough itself to stand as a good story. It's a really good standalone, that just happens to lead into another one; I want to see more not because the story was incomplete (like with Magician's Apprentice), but because it's a complete story that clearly leads into a larger one. Also I could hear everything that was said, unlike the last two that had Murray Gold Murray Golding all over the place. And while this could change pretty heavily later in the season, I do like how the sonic glasses were used here. They're robust enough that they're not just pointing a magic wand at the problem, the writers get to be clever about the application.
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Oct 4, 2015 11:23
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thexerox123 posted:Why not just do a switch-off with the hologram the exact same way you would do a switch-off with the other person? You're assuming the hologram is very advanced. We see it take a few steps into view, then stand still, and then loop that same animation; it's clearly not going to convincingly pull off an actual chase.
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Oct 5, 2015 03:10
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thespaceinvader posted:Is it just me or did anyone else see this bit and think 'why isn't the TARDIS translating this? Sign is as much a language as speech.' The translation matrix always seemed to work by replacing the language in question with English (or whatever language they were speaking), I can see a physical language being outside of its ability.
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Oct 5, 2015 23:00
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Espilae posted:I'm a little worried it's because the tumblr girlfans have left in droves because they can't ship the Doctor anymore. I doubt it, last year's ratings were pretty solid.
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Oct 7, 2015 08:58
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Today I learned that Sophie Stone, the woman playing Cass in the ongoing two-parter, is actually deaf. And is also a legitimate actor. She's going entirely without her hearing aid for the role (because Cass wouldn't have one), and had to work with the guy playing her interpreter to invent whole new signs for words like 'prototype'. Holy poo poo, this woman is amazing. If any disability would cause difficulties in being an actor, deafness is number one.
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Oct 7, 2015 12:22
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Well, it does come into play in a greater way than that; she's the one that reads the ghost's lip movements, because deaf people are so used to doing that. Which is basically the best way to write her, since it gives her deafness a greater purpose in the story without making her a victim, of course, but also without creating some extraordinary circumstance where deafness is magically the best asset to have.
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Oct 7, 2015 12:48
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HD DAD posted:Really, I suspect the show's audience is pretty stable, and the BBC really needs to get up to date on how they're measuring ratings. I know they factor in iPlayer views now, but all these "no one is watching doctor who anymore!" claims are coming from people looking at the overnights. I have no clue how seriously the BBC take overnights these days, and if they do, they shouldn't. Also, again, we're getting scared of ratings for when Doctor Who is going up against England playing rugby. It was still in the right spot ratings-wise for the first episode, and internationally it's still sitting where it should be. It's not a ratings winner by any means down here in Australia, since it's on the ABC which aren't allowed to advertise (their charter is stricter than the BBC's in terms of real-world advertising, too), and it's going up against both a hit talent reality show and a hit home renovation reality show, but it still manages a solid audience.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:52
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Organza Quiz posted:Plenty of people can lipread who aren't deaf and I'm pretty sure not all deaf people can lipread. I'd read "magical circumstance where deafness is the best attribute to have" as something like the sirens from the Odyssey. This was a situation where someone who was deaf would be likely to have the skillset necessary but not necessarily and a non-deaf character could also have potentially done it. Yeah, this is what I meant. We aren't dealing with 'good thing we have a deaf person to handle this specific, fantastical situation', they're just relying on the girl whose experiences give her a certain skill, and her experience happens to be deafness. It's a very respectful way to do it, since the fact she's ultimately doing something very simple and realistic to contribute (reading the lip movements of people we can't hear) implies far more respect for deaf people than 'we invented some otherworldly creature that only deaf people can stand against'.
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Oct 8, 2015 08:45
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Oh, I don't like the Conquered People Chaps, it feels a bit like a Douglas Adams joke that didn't go anywhere I think that joke lasted exactly as long as it needed to. It's funny, but doesn't have much legs without clever writing to keep it up. And even if they had that, it just would've taken away from the story. I could see their planet being a fun backdrop for a comedic story, though, maybe starring the Sontarans. This was still a solid episode, but maybe not as good as the last one. Like someone said earlier, it feels like we're missing a couple scenes. Not crucial ones, we're not missing any vital information, just scenes needed to space out the story beats or make better use of the 'prop town' setting. I guess it's a good episode to have the only real complaint be 'we needed more of it'.
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Oct 11, 2015 11:14
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Open Source Idiom posted:So the Bootstrap Paradox stuff. It's the Doctor talking straight to the audience so that we know beforehand what's going on. It's clever, actually, a little mini-paradox in itself. We're told that the episode is going to involve this kind of mechanic before it happens, so we know what the Doctor's going to do before he does it -- but only because he's already told us. Cute. Well, it could also be the Doctor explaining the concept to Clara after the fact. Which would also bring it into the same sort of paradox-masking as the Doctor uses with his ghost; it recontextualizes the incident in question, causing it to make internal sense, but the question is only buried, not answered. MotherFUCK this one's complicated.
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Oct 11, 2015 14:41
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twistedmentat posted:Something I completely forgot is how amazing the scene where the Cult of Skaro and the Cybermen are smack talking each other. They both have such contempt for each other, but the Cybermen feel like they're posturing while the Daleks know they have the upper hand. I want more scenes of iconic, distinct Who aliens trying to talk poo poo to each other. Not even as a fanservice thing, it's just that Who aliens are generally so defined as characters (for good or bad) that there's a lot to work with on both sides. They'd clearly all have very clear opinions on what makes the other races good or bad, what they have over them and what they could take from them. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 07:24
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I wasn't sure about it at first, but my god does Capaldi pull off the sunglasses and guitar. It actually does really well at pulling together that last season, while generally consistent and high-quality, didn't quite 'click' with everyone. Like some people, both in the audience and in the writing staff, weren't quite sure how Capaldi's Doctor works. But now that he's got those, suddenly it all sits perfectly. It's not a change to the character so much as giving a focus and label to who he was in the first place. Suddenly Twelve is an aging rock star, his days of youthful rebellion past him but still with that same spirit. He's gotten on in years, so he's stopped caring about how he comes across, but that doesn't mean he's not a genuine person deep down. None of that is different to how he was played last season, but the guitar and sunglasses give it a context that helps ground it all. And I love it SO MUCH.
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Oct 13, 2015 04:03
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:Am I the only one who finds Capaldis doctor being almost autistic to be incredibly annoying? We've just had however many in a row that are all able to be around people and understand people, and this ones just a big oval office who's forgotten everything about his past lives? Its not well done at all, its way too try hard. It's not that he's 'forgotten everything', it's that he doesn't really give a poo poo how people see him. He's more interested in figuring things out and getting things done than seeming friendly while he does it. 'Mild autism' is a valid interpretation of him, and it's one I like just because it means a positive portrayal of an autistic person, but there's more ways about that, more types of people that can care but find it more useful to just not. Last season brought up 'military officer', people around here have put forward 'professor with tenure', this season seems to have grabbed onto 'aging rocker' and rolled with it.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:18
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MrL_JaKiri posted:There's an argument to be made that the opposite is true, surely? People watching just to fill time [on Saturday evening] will watch it live, whereas people who actively want to watch it will watch it preferentially, subsequently, over whatever is on at the time. Both can arguably be true by how people watch things now. I watch Doctor Who when it airs, and I watch my Youtube subscriptions when I get around to them, but I'd say that I actively watch both of them.
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Oct 15, 2015 14:46
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I think, more than anything, I'm surprised by the fact that the episode started with a Monty Python allusion and wasn't awful. That should have set a godawful, painful tone, yet not only did the joke itself work, the entire rest of the episode did too. It's so weird to think that the same guy that wrote Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline did this, but the fact that he did means that I think we can really get a hold on what his sorts of Who stories are. There's still common themes and concepts at play; his monsters are all things that can't be outfought or even really run from, but are a puzzle for the Doctor and Clara to solve with the evidence and situation ingredients given to them, with Clara playing an important role of keeping things grounded and understood enough for the Doctor to not think too extremely. His monsters are all pretty simple in concept too, but are sold through their appearance and actions; these ones were basically just a Sontaran-style warrior race, but their heavily industrial design and reliance on visual spectacle (to the point where it's their downfall) set them apart from everything. I love Mathieson's monsters, but the way he writes them makes me really interested in seeing how he'd write a series staple like the Daleks or Cybermen. Also, the Doctor's issues during the episode are basically 'Kill the Moon/Forest of the Night done right' and I love it.
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Oct 18, 2015 11:20
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Sentinel Red posted:Clara's totes already dead and both the Doctor and the TARDIS know it, hence his preoccupation with the subject and it ringing the bell every 5 minutes because he's loving everything up trying to save her from something that did already, and has to, happen. I could buy that.
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Oct 18, 2015 14:23
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Amppelix posted:For a highly advanced and supposedly renowned warrior race, these guys sure were nonthreatening. Their peashooters couldn't even break through the wood walls. These guys seemed to rely a lot on spectacle and fear, so I'd wager a lot of their thing is bluster, intimidation and bullying. They're still dangerous and highly advanced, yes, and they're picking on a very comparatively primitive village, but I wouldn't be surprised if their weapons weren't actually all that great. I can't imagine a CGI snake would be that terrifying to the actual most dangerous warrior race in the universe. If all this is true, then I love these guys. A race legendary not because of what they're actually capable of, but because 'well they look big and scary, claimed to be pretty important, shouted a lot and beat the poo poo out of that other guy, so I better not mess with them'.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:They really need a new one. The current one looks okay with just the Doctor and Clara around the console, but even with just one extra person it starts getting crowded fast. The surrounding gantry is even worse if you have more than just one person on it side-by-side because it's so narrow. To be fair, adding the books and blackboard made it look at a lot better than it did originally, but it's still a very cramped set. I remember pointing this out last season, but the main reason the set seems cramped now is because they put a bunch of stuff into an already small set. Twelve's console room is basically Eleven's second one with more things in it, but the set itself wasn't really designed for that, it wasn't built with the bookcases, tables, blackboards and whatnot in mind. And those decorations are not only causing the space issues, they're bringing focus to it. Eleven's version of it felt more spacious not just because there was less in it, but because there was less to do in it; our attention wasn't called to the size of the overall room because everyone was always in the center. Now, though, we've got the Doctor explaining things on chalkboards, taking out and reading books, fooling around with a guitar amp. The edges of the TARDIS set aren't dressing anymore, they're part of the actual stage, but they weren't really designed to be.
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Oct 19, 2015 12:45
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Jerusalem posted:It was in Mummy on the Orient Express during the scene where he's chatting to himself in the cabin and suddenly Tom Baker's voice comes spilling out of his mouth. It was amazing. If the Doctor slipping into impressions of older Doctors is a Mathieson thing specifically, then he's even better than we thought because it's awesome.
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Oct 20, 2015 02:15
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The most insane Clara theory I can come up with: At some point during the events of The Witch's Familiar, Missy started impersonating Clara and got the real one killed. My only actual proof for this is that Clara's acting about as nonchalantly about fairly important things as Missy would if she were pretending to be Clara, and that the cloister bell probably would be chiming off like crazy if the Master were traveling inside the TARDIS. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 14:09
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Well I wasn't in love with that episode, and thought it was a bit all over the place, but it was hanging on Maisie Williams' performance and she nailed it. I love that she's not even necessarily a worst-case scenario for what happens when you make a completely normal person immortal; the weight of years wore down on her, and her mind's just not built to handle it. It doesn't even entirely matter that the rest of the episode's a bit weak, given that. We're not gonna remember it as 'the one with a lion-man alien' or 'the one with a guy doing stand-up comedy to stave off being hanged', we'll remember it as 'the one where Maisie Williams plays a really hosed-up immortal' and it's great at that. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 11:16
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misadventurous posted:I'm interested in next week's story because ZYGONS. Kill the Moon was really messy, but I liked it enough that I'm not inclined to write off Harness altogether. As long as the script gets more spit and polish than KtM appeared to it could be a good watch. Yeah, Kill the Moon's problems were such that I'm not inclined to entirely write him off. It's not a strong script, but it's more because he had ideas that got away from him; ideas with too much concept and too little polish to work, which then got compounded with a bad child actor. Something like the Zygons might suit him better, since they're known quantities and reasonably small. Contrast with In the Forest of the Night, which was clearly the product of somebody poo poo at writing and poo poo at messages. Plus the overall concept seems pretty nice, I like the sound of a 'trust nobody, because everybody could be an imposter' story, that kinda poo poo's got good rewatch potential.
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Oct 25, 2015 14:43
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happyhippy posted:And it would be amazing to see Sam Swift in a future future episode, but hes dead serious and wants to help mankind for his past sins. No, no. He needs to have used centuries of experience, materials and techniques to become an amazing comedian. Have him be like Calculon, and after recorded visuals became a thing he started getting his appearance altered to lower suspicion. He is really each comedic era's greatest contribution.
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Oct 26, 2015 00:33
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This might be the first Big Finish thing I actually buy. Not because I wasn't interested before, but the fact they're characters and actors I know really well will make actually listening to them so much easier. I can kind of have issues with keeping track of people's faces and voices at first, especially in an entirely non-visual format, so this'd be a great way to ease myself into the way they actually work.
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Oct 26, 2015 11:36
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Hopper posted:Is this where I can complain that I hate the stupid sunglasses and was hoping they were gone after he broke them? Well, to be honest the screwdriver's not nearly as iconic to the series as you might imagine from the revival. Someone more knowledgeable in the old series would be more accurate than I am, but not only was it never used as heavily in the classic series as the revival leaned on it, it was actually destroyed in the Fifth Doctor's run and never returned during the entire classic series. It's far more of a new series thing than a classic one. I don't expect the shades to be a massively long-term thing, but I think they suit Capaldi a lot more than the screwdriver did, and I wouldn't expect to lose them until we get either a new Doctor or a new showrunner. I like that they seem to be pulling their weight in terms of being a story presence, personally; whenever they turn up either they're doing something a lot more tangible than the screwdriver normally would (like the holograms in Under the Lake/Before the Flood) or the fact that they're actually shades is coming into play (like their use as a mask in The Woman Who Lived).
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Oct 28, 2015 12:54
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Jerusalem posted:I really wish they could get past this. They've technically done it a few times like in The Crimson Horror where the "monster" was a (unknown) prehistoric creature and even then wasn't actually anything more than a prop for the actual villain to project/excuse their own psychosis through. But a story like this one or Amy and Vincent would work a lot better without an extra-terrestrial enemy jammed into the plot. Listen might not have had a monster! That was a minor theme with last year's season, actually, stories with either no monster or villain, or an inconsequential one. The entire question with Listen was if there even was a monster, the only threats in Kill the Moon up and hosed off when the 'real plot' appeared, the Blitzer in The Caretaker was only a catalyst to make Danny and the Doctor meet. Hell, even (ugh) Forest of the Night was basically just a bunch of different well-meaning parties having communication issues.
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Oct 29, 2015 08:56
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