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SamuraiFoochs posted:Right, and I'm saying that's dumb not from a writing stance, but on the principle that people want to see the Joker in anything Batman, Problem is, any Lil' Joker thing is probably going to suck. A conundrum. But they actually, against all odds, HAD a good one and killed him off. It's stupid and soured me on the show not at face value; on paper the idea of Jerome INSPIRING The Joker (or tons of them) without actually being The Joker and that being his legacy is actually loving awesome.. The only time we saw him before this was in season one and I do not think he was universally loved. It was the last two episodes and they were filmed a long time ago along with this one. They killed him off without viewing peoples reaction to him.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:09
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Right, and I'm saying that's dumb not from a writing stance, but on the principle that people want to see the Joker in anything Batman, Problem is, any Lil' Joker thing is probably going to suck. A conundrum. But they actually, against all odds, HAD a good one and killed him off. It's stupid and soured me on the show not at face value; on paper the idea of Jerome INSPIRING The Joker (or tons of them) without actually being The Joker and that being his legacy is actually loving awesome.. From what I remember, most people were not fond of miniJ in the first season, and in the second season he wasn't around long enough for the writers to know that we actually liked him.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:16
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White Noise Marine posted:From what I remember, most people were not fond of miniJ in the first season, and in the second season he wasn't around long enough for the writers to know that we actually liked him. Weird, I must've just been reading different feedback. In that case I retract that part of the criticism but not the rest of it. They had a good proto-Joker and killed him and that sucks because he was probably the most entertaining character IMO, or second to Penguin, Riddler's okay I guess and Barbara's growing on me a touch but all the other villains are meh.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:28
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Jerome finally got around to channeling Mark Hamil this episode. I guess they killed him off because they ran out of Jokers for him to be.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:37
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Weird, I must've just been reading different feedback. In that case I retract that part of the criticism but not the rest of it. They had a good proto-Joker and killed him and that sucks because he was probably the most entertaining character IMO, or second to Penguin, Riddler's okay I guess and Barbara's growing on me a touch but all the other villains are meh. So 90% of the villains in the main cast are not boring?
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Oct 6, 2015 20:39
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Phylodox posted:Jerome finally got around to channeling Mark Hamil this episode. I guess they killed him off because they ran out of Jokers for him to be. I thought his performance was pretty consistently an amalgamation of all the famous Jokers from scene one, personally. Maybe it's just me.  bobkatt013 posted:So 90% of the villains in the main cast are not boring? I don't HATE them. The only one I consistently enjoy is Penguin. They're not Fish. That's not exactly huge praise. SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 20:40
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TheBizzness posted:It still has plenty of bad stuff like Jerome knowing the magic tricks and Gordon being able to get in the building unnoticed but nobody else being able to get out. The only bad thing is your ability to actually watch a TV show apparently. Both things were explained in the show.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:28
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They killed the show. The show runners should have seen how good he was and just had him get knocked out and locked up in Arkham where he could be forgotten about for a while. Now, no matter what they do, the Joker will be either worse or won't show up at all. In either case they lose. I'll check in mid season and see if it is worth watching. I'm done for now, though.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:35
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You forget they might not be even allowed to use the joker. This is DC we are talking about and they have the Suicide Squad coming out.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:37
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I still love people in this thread thinking the show has to adhere to the comic continuity, even though they've already changed so much of it.
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Oct 6, 2015 22:53
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Davros1 posted:I still love people in this thread thinking the show has to adhere to the comic continuity, even though they've already changed so much of it. Speaking of comic stuff, Galavan seems a lot closer to The Architect than Ras al Ghul.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:12
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I don't care about continuity or anything. Hell, I don't even care about the Joker character as much in relation to this show. What I care about is they had a talented actor that played unhinged perfectly and really pushed the show along and then they killed him to launch Theo Galavan's story line which is completely uninteresting at this point. So, not even so much that he was doing Joker better than this show had any right to do it (even though he was), just that now a fun an interesting character is gone. Something though Cameron Monaghan is credited in the next episode. My guess is that it's just from the TV footage recorded in this episode though.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:42
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 At least he died with a smile on his face. I also find it funny that THIS happened earlier in the show.   The irony. Everyone in the fandom is angry.
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Oct 7, 2015 00:23
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If they were going to have Jerome inspire the "real" Joker, I'd have liked to see Jerome make more public appeals to convince others to go out and create chaos over the course of the season, and then one of those "disciples" would eventually take Jerome's shtick to the next level when Jerome dies in the mid/season finale. Jerome was barely on television(2-3 times), died in one of those appearances, and we are expected to believe that brief exposure is enough to turn a viewer into the Joker?
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Oct 7, 2015 00:27
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gently caress this show, I'm not watching any more
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Oct 7, 2015 00:34
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Caryna posted:The only bad thing is your ability to actually watch a TV show apparently. Both things were explained in the show. I missed whatever explanation there was for Bruce just standing around waiting to be killed while Gordon was able to navigate directly to him without being noticed, but "grew up in a carnival" isn't something I'm buying for him to know the magic tricks. Sick burn though and I apologize for suggesting noted masterpiece Got Ham was less than perfect.
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Oct 7, 2015 01:15
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RIP Jerome. You were the Joker we wanted, but not the Joker we deserved for watching this loving show.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:04
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OK, It's been three episodes now so I think I'm finally comfortable saying that the new direction for the show is crap. I mean, quite literally every aspect of this show took a poo poo between seasons (particularly the camerawork for some reason). I know a lot of people bitched about the tone and padding in season 1 but at least it tried to take itself seriously and tell a real story. Season two just seems to have gone off the deep end and has completely stopped giving a drat. Which kind of worked because Jerome was a pretty amazing joker but with him dead... I dunno. I guess we'll see how it plays out in the next couple episodes but I'm not optimistic.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:24
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It's okay, Hamill has retired so at least they have another actor they can use for Joker voice actors.
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Oct 7, 2015 05:13
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readingatwork posted:OK, It's been three episodes now so I think I'm finally comfortable saying that the new direction for the show is crap. I mean, quite literally every aspect of this show took a poo poo between seasons (particularly the camerawork for some reason). Let's not forget episode 2 was balloon man. We really have not seen what they want to do with the series, and it's way to early to say where it's going.
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Oct 7, 2015 05:44
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Grown Man/Woman With Steven Universe Avatar: "Daaaaah, this show is poop, it's poopy, they killed the good joker, daaaaah, I'm not going to watch any more and I'm going to Tweet angrily at Fox"
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Oct 7, 2015 06:09
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Just to be clear, Jerome is: 1: clearly based on a character who routinely cheats death and inexplicably escapes from the clutches of authority. 2. a skilled magician. Isn't it a bit early to take his apparent death at face value?
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Oct 7, 2015 07:34
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Tequila Bob posted:Just to be clear, Jerome is: Also possibly a setup for a Joker Gang, Batman Beyond style. And no possibilities preclude the others. So yes, it is.
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Oct 7, 2015 07:50
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If anything, Jerome had to "die"if for no other reason than Gordon would probably remember him when "The Joker" turned up years later, and especially so if Jerome was around committing crimes/sitting in Arkham during the interim. Now, whether he faked his death to return as the full Joker later on (I doubt it, and I doubt the show will ever reach a point chronologically where it will even come into play) or simply inspired the Man Who Would Be Joker through his actions is up for debate, but either way you can't have Joker wreaking havoc on Gotham while everybody just calls him Jerome and knows his whole story. In all, he was a really fun character unique to this particular Batman canon that had to go away for a while to accommodate the story. I wish he had just been arrested and locked away so he could return periodically, but I don't have any real problem with killing him off either.
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Oct 7, 2015 08:30
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Tequila Bob posted:Just to be clear, Jerome is: I was just going to bring this up. In comics and the animated series Joker cheated death all the time. My personal favorite is in the first World's Finest animated special where Batman and Superman team up. Joker is stranded on a full-on 747 size passenger jet that crashes into the ocean like in the end of Air Force One. Joker is clearly shown on the plane with no escape possible, laughing as it goes down (of course). He's totally fine from then on and no one really believes he's dead. Of course, in the original DC animated universe he dies when he gets shot in the chest with a big ol' metal dart (or electrocuted if you watch the lame censored version of the Batman Beyond movie). Even with a confirmed death where Batman himself buries the body, he still manages to pop back in some form one last time. So yeah, he's probably dead, but more than any other character you can bring back Jerome without the comic book audience minding because they know Joker does that all the time, and the regular audience not caring because Jerome is the best. Batman Beyond style Joker gang (in everything but name) seems most likely in the near future, with how everyone was freaking out at the end there. Ultimately Joker is the iconic Batman villain, so unless Gotham somehow only gets two seasons we're going to get some strong allusions to the character up to and including more people who act like the Joker again but end up dead. Sober posted:It's okay, Hamill has retired so at least they have another actor they can use for Joker voice actors. Troy Baker did one hell of a Hamill-Joker imitation in Arkham Origins, he'd be my top choice for a Joker VA if Hamill's unavailable, which he probably should be since I doubt he's going to top the job he did in the main Arkham trilogy. Well, actually I'd love to see one last bit of Hamill in the Killing Joke animated movie they're supposed to be working on  .
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Oct 7, 2015 08:50
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Well. I guess I could settle for having the actor play a different guy who acts just like Jerome except with green hair and makeup or something and it's never really made clear whether he somehow came back to life or if it's just some random nut with no name. Also he stabs whats his face in the neck for betraying him before he can do whatever his dumb plan is.
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Oct 7, 2015 11:20
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Tequila Bob posted:Just to be clear, Jerome is: It would be, if he hadn't bled out on stage in front of a ton of people, and we hadn't seen his autopsied corpse lying on a slab in the coroner's office. I wish they'd just knocked him off a cliff into the water or something, just to leave more possibility for a return.
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Oct 7, 2015 12:15
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Jerome programmed his soul into a microchip that he implanted into a baby Tim Drake.
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Oct 7, 2015 12:47
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TheBizzness posted:I missed whatever explanation there was for Bruce just standing around waiting to be killed while Gordon was able to navigate directly to him without being noticed, but "grew up in a carnival" isn't something I'm buying for him to know the magic tricks. Oh, I never said Gotham is a good show. I only pointed out that you seem to have trouble connecting dots and blaming it on the show 
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Oct 7, 2015 13:00
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ShakeZula posted:If anything, Jerome had to "die"if for no other reason than Gordon would probably remember him when "The Joker" turned up years later, and especially so if Jerome was around committing crimes/sitting in Arkham during the interim. Now, whether he faked his death to return as the full Joker later on (I doubt it, and I doubt the show will ever reach a point chronologically where it will even come into play) or simply inspired the Man Who Would Be Joker through his actions is up for debate, but either way you can't have Joker wreaking havoc on Gotham while everybody just calls him Jerome and knows his whole story. Within the context of the show, what would it matter if people knew that the (future) Joker was a guy named Jerome? He would still be a homicidal Joker-style maniac, people would still be terrified of him, and people would probably just eventually refer to him as "the Joker" anyway if he started calling himself that. I don't see what the issue would be if people in the Gotham TV universe knew the Joker's real name; there is no leverage to be gained from it, and the Joker is pretty public with his plots anyways. It's funny, at first I thought the idea of giving the Joker an actual background was incredibly dumb, but the show/actor actually did it well...so of course they killed Jerome. I found Jerome as the Joker more believable than Jerome inspiring a copycat future-Joker because he was on TV twice.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:36
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Fish ruled, J drooled.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:54
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imperialparadox posted:Within the context of the show, what would it matter if people knew that the (future) Joker was a guy named Jerome? He would still be a homicidal Joker-style maniac, people would still be terrified of him, and people would probably just eventually refer to him as "the Joker" anyway if he started calling himself that. I don't see what the issue would be if people in the Gotham TV universe knew the Joker's real name; there is no leverage to be gained from it, and the Joker is pretty public with his plots anyways. Its like the magic red hood. They combine and that is how we get the Joker.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:56
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Caryna posted:Oh, I never said Gotham is a good show. I only pointed out that you seem to have trouble connecting dots and blaming it on the show There's a reason I average less than a post a day: I am dumb and a bad poster.
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Oct 7, 2015 17:56
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The stupidest thing about Jerome "inspiring" another Joker is that Joker is insane. Totally bonkers. He isn't inspired to ACT a certain way because of something he saw. He isn't acting. Bad writing. Dumb writing.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:20
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Waltzing Along posted:The stupidest thing about Jerome "inspiring" another Joker is that Joker is insane. Totally bonkers. He isn't inspired to ACT a certain way because of something he saw. He isn't acting. Jesus Christ, comic book fans are loving terrible.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:22
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sector_corrector posted:Jesus Christ, comic book fans are loving terrible.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:31
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sector_corrector posted:Jesus Christ, comic book fans are loving terrible. So you think the biggest, most famous villain in the entire spectrum of comic books, one whose biggest gimmick is that he is outright bonkers, should be rewritten to be a pretender?
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Oct 7, 2015 18:33
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Waltzing Along posted:So you think the biggest, most famous villain in the entire spectrum of comic books, one whose biggest gimmick is that he is outright bonkers, should be rewritten to be a pretender? Or they go with the way Morrison viewed him, he has no personality and he is completely malleable.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:35
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bobkatt013 posted:Or they go with the way Morrison viewed him, he has no personality and he is completely malleable. I think they should really run with it. Selena spurns Bruce so Bruce turns to the cock. Which is why he takes in Dick as his ward.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:39
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Waltzing Along posted:The stupidest thing about Jerome "inspiring" another Joker is that Joker is insane. Totally bonkers. He isn't inspired to ACT a certain way because of something he saw. He isn't acting. I could sort of see the idea of the situation, environment and people making up Gotham, though, being as such that in the same way it produced the perfect Batman, it could similarly and seemingly spontaneously produce a perfect Joker. Sort of like how Bruce decided to become a Bat because a bat flew through his window and he took it as a sign: Jerome and his madness ultimately being as the Joker's bat, a sign of what THE Joker will become.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:02
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