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Look Under The Rock
Oct 20, 2007

you can't take the sky from me


Has anyone ever done an alignment change mechanic where the player is told that a recruitment attempt has been made and they're given a choice whether or not to join? I feel like that's a little balance there, the scum won't know for certain that they'll be successful, someone who turns down recruitment can claim that in thread or lie about it, and I know there have been games where the town has been so awful that I've wished I had the option of switching sides.

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hexwren
Feb 27, 2008



Look Under The Rock posted:

Has anyone ever done an alignment change mechanic where the player is told that a recruitment attempt has been made and they're given a choice whether or not to join? I feel like that's a little balance there, the scum won't know for certain that they'll be successful, someone who turns down recruitment can claim that in thread or lie about it, and I know there have been games where the town has been so awful that I've wished I had the option of switching sides.

No, but that would fit in well with the flavor of the alignment-change game I'm thinking of running several games down my idea queue. Hm.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003


Lipstick Apathy

Any situation where a player goes from town to scum is not condusive to actual mafia play. People who are looking for scummy players that are good at scumhunting will see the player as town because of their time as a town player, and really once you started a game as town, it is far easier to fake it than if you came into the game with scum knowledge, just by continuing your previous thought processes in addition to going with the flow. If a player were to switch from town to a 3P win condition that is potentially different depending on the condition.

Cult is generally unfun.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


idea: Player Choice mafia. Players are told what actions target them, and they can choose whether the action goes through out not (but if they choose "no," a negative thing happens to them, perhaps increasing in severity depending on how many times they've said no or the type of action they received).

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003


Lipstick Apathy

I tried to cop ecco last night and the attempt was declined ##vote ecco

Jonathan Fisk
Sep 6, 2010

Get your umbrella fella cause we blowin hella chedda


WRT alignment changing, I like it as a means of spicing up silly role madness games as long as it's limited usage and there's a means for the town/scum to account for it. I don't care for it in setups that aren't presented as more serious.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008



Rarity posted:

Perhaps a vocab section in the OP would be useful?

This sounds like a good idea and I will add this at some point!

imgay posted:

Very informative thread, rated 5

Why thank you so very much imgay.

Asiina posted:

I think the only exceptions are when it is known at the beginning of the game so people can know what to expect, and then whether it is called mafia at that point is debatable.

I mean it's still absolutely mafia. All of this is still role stuff and is still a superficial add-on to the game, not something that changes the fabric of the game entirely. I agree that it's probably always bad though.

Kumbamontu posted:

An example role of one person changing alignments was the Chameleon role I used in Lizards Mafia, wherein Ernie would, upon being targeted by any role, PGO-kill the person who targeted him and steal their role and alignment

Just kidding, that role owns.

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

----------------------
|PMush used Shitpost! |
|It's super effective!|
----------------------


I did a single alignment change role in Dwarf-fia, but you'd have to ask my players how well that went over. It was a small part of a much larger "stumps matter" subtheme in the game.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

There is no truth beyond magic.

EccoRaven posted:

idea: Player Choice mafia. Players are told what actions target them, and they can choose whether the action goes through out not (but if they choose "no," a negative thing happens to them, perhaps increasing in severity depending on how many times they've said no or the type of action they received).
Interesting idea! A variant:

Mutual Consent Mafia: players may consent to or reject the night visits of other players. If they have consensual interaction, each uses their power on the other. Players are not told what power got used on them. Players are told the name of the visiting player before they decide. However, Scum come in disguise in order to trick victims into opening the door.
Examples: <Player 1 Doctor> is knocking on <Player 2 Cop>'s door. Mod: "You hear a knock on your door. "Who is it?" you say. "<Player 1>!" If Player 2 opens the door, they are Protected (but are not told this) and also get a Town result on Player 1 (Player 1 not told this).
<Player 3 Watcher> is knocking on <Player 2 Cop>'s door. If Player 2 opens the door, Player 2 gets a Town result on Player 3, and Player 3 sees everyone who knocked on Player 2's door (true identity not announced identity).
<Player 4 Scum> is knocking on <Player 2 Cop>'s door, but they have the Scum power to announce themselves as <Player 1>! Scum knocks always come last in the night, so if they screw up and do a repeat, it has the downside of Confirming the person they impersonated and tipping off the victim to refuse entry.
Anyone who chooses to visit a Scum will die (if not Protected or a Roleblocker or a Vig) if the Scum chooses to open the door to them.

So choosing to open up is always a risk for Town, refusing to open up is always a plausibly Town choice for Scum, and keeping an awareness of who trusts who and who trusts you and who you trust is functionally important in the targeting choices. Top of the head, may have fatal flaws.. What happens if the Doc claims D1?

AnonymousNarcotics
Aug 6, 2012

we will go far into the sea
you will take me
onto your back
never look back
never look back


Asiina posted:

That may just bring suspicion onto a player where there was none before, which isn't fair to the team doing the alignment changing.

Although, unintentional,. I did sorta like the public cult that PMom and ANarc had Pummeling in Pimonia. I think it wasn't great in that game since it was a pro-town cult and the scum team got a little screwed, but having something like a public unkillable cult recruiter in the game might be an interesting mechanic, and then it's a race against time for town. Having no scum team but the recruit as an alternative to the nightkill would be interesting since the only deaths would be from lynches.

It wasn't meant to be a public cult. I just kind of had a meltdown and claimed on day 1 or something. But yeah also we didn't even know we were a cult. All 3 of us were just given the night action "empower" but we didn't know what it did.

I really liked the cult mechanic in my first game - Exakt Science's Skyrim Mafia. It may have been skewed towards scum bc town didn't know there were 2 cults, let alone even 1.

It was a super fun game and an awesome win, even though Rarity and I didn't manage to recruit even one person until like the last day or two.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Alignment Chat:

I know I experienced it recently in an Ecco game. I thought it was an interesting twist, and balanced OK. I was only personally annoyed since I had been really enjoying being a VT for once and just playing without worrying about powers and the like. I was lucky in that I didn't have to alter my opinions on my new team mates that much. Then again, I just came out and claimed immediately because I didn't want to have to suddenly start lying in the game. Luckily, people went with it and it all worked out for me.

This is pretty much a big nothing in the end. It can probably work, but having gone through it, I wasn't the biggest fan of having to alter my strategy like that.

MMM Whatchya Say
Aug 10, 2011

This doesn't taste like anything you've licked before


I have a really good idea for an alignment change based game now.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008



Lumpen posted:

Scum knocks always come last in the night, so if they screw up and do a repeat, it has the downside of Confirming the person they impersonated and tipping off the victim to refuse entry.

This sounds like a game of luck for the scum.

Lumpen posted:

Anyone who chooses to visit a Scum will die (if not Protected or a Roleblocker or a Vig) if the Scum chooses to open the door to them.

This sounds like it would make a lot of town PR's useless and the setup would have to be pretty stretched. Then again, you could have abuses where someone announces in thread that they are visiting someone and if that person doesn't open their door or if that person dies then you know they're scum.

Also the impersonation mechanic makes a doctor claiming D1 pretty useless.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

PONYTAR
PONYTAR
PONYTAR




AnonymousNarcotics posted:

I really liked the cult mechanic in my first game - Exakt Science's Skyrim Mafia. It may have been skewed towards scum bc town didn't know there were 2 cults, let alone even 1.

It was a super fun game and an awesome win, even though Rarity and I didn't manage to recruit even one person until like the last day or two.

That game really was massively unbalanced. Town didn't know enough about the setup and the town SK they were given was too easy to set up as a, well an SK. At the same time I borked up every recruit attempt so they could have had it way worse and I did love that the mechanic let Meinberg gift me the win and then me to recruit him so he got it too

Look Under The Rock
Oct 20, 2007

you can't take the sky from me


I'd be interested to see a mechanic based on petitioning gods, who would be players outside of the game with boons to grant and alignments/win conditions but no knowledge of who has which role and no ability to post within the thread. They can only influence the outcome of the game by privately granting boons that they are asked for publicly; for instance, one god might get to decide what the order of operations for night actions will be, one might grant a one-shot ability to beg a boon privately instead of needing to ask it in thread, one might give a token that empowers or complicates existing role abilities.

Any thoughts on this?

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008



Look Under The Rock posted:

I'd be interested to see a mechanic based on petitioning gods, who would be players outside of the game with boons to grant and alignments/win conditions but no knowledge of who has which role and no ability to post within the thread. They can only influence the outcome of the game by privately granting boons that they are asked for publicly; for instance, one god might get to decide what the order of operations for night actions will be, one might grant a one-shot ability to beg a boon privately instead of needing to ask it in thread, one might give a token that empowers or complicates existing role abilities.

Any thoughts on this?

That sounds awesome. You'd probably need to dress it up and put some rules behind it for folks who are straight-up not in the game but overall that sounds like a very very cool thing.

Jonathan Fisk
Sep 6, 2010

Get your umbrella fella cause we blowin hella chedda


Look Under The Rock posted:

I'd be interested to see a mechanic based on petitioning gods, who would be players outside of the game with boons to grant and alignments/win conditions but no knowledge of who has which role and no ability to post within the thread. They can only influence the outcome of the game by privately granting boons that they are asked for publicly; for instance, one god might get to decide what the order of operations for night actions will be, one might grant a one-shot ability to beg a boon privately instead of needing to ask it in thread, one might give a token that empowers or complicates existing role abilities.

Any thoughts on this?

Iliad mafia imo

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



Tremendous Taste posted:

Iliad mafia imo

please, i'm a #millenial

the only pantheon i care about is the wicdiv one

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


A soldiers game where one side has multiple gods and the other has only one.

Jonathan Fisk
Sep 6, 2010

Get your umbrella fella cause we blowin hella chedda


I really liked American gods too

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Pinterest Mom posted:

please, i'm a #millenial

the only pantheon i care about is the wicdiv one

hey let's keep the more off-topic chat in the other thread.

Jonathan Fisk
Sep 6, 2010

Get your umbrella fella cause we blowin hella chedda


EccoRaven posted:

A soldiers game where one side has multiple gods and the other has only one.

Christianity vs Islam is a little insensitive ec

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



EccoRaven posted:

hey let's keep the more off-topic chat in the other thread.

Is talking about potential flavours for games not kosher.

BottleKnight
Sep 1, 2008



Pinterest Mom posted:

Is talking about potential flavours for games not kosher.

A wicked and divine game seems like a no brainer, but I would want capps CAPPS! to either run it or at least be a part of it.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Tremendous Taste posted:

Iliad mafia imo

i like that flavor

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013

If I could have it back
All the time that we wasted
I'd only waste it again
If I could have it back
You know I'd love to waste it again
Waste it again and again and again

Look Under The Rock posted:

I'd be interested to see a mechanic based on petitioning gods, who would be players outside of the game with boons to grant and alignments/win conditions but no knowledge of who has which role and no ability to post within the thread. They can only influence the outcome of the game by privately granting boons that they are asked for publicly; for instance, one god might get to decide what the order of operations for night actions will be, one might grant a one-shot ability to beg a boon privately instead of needing to ask it in thread, one might give a token that empowers or complicates existing role abilities.

Any thoughts on this?

Have you read my mafiathoughts.doc? I have this very same idea noted down somewhere. I eventually gave it up when I realized I had no where near the experience to try to balance such a game. My idea ranged across three players who affected it via good vs. neutral vs. chaotic (like D&D alignments). In the end though, I felt it wouldn't be particular fun for the non-god players and those actions could just as easily be done in a more fair way by the mod themselves.

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

----------------------
|PMush used Shitpost! |
|It's super effective!|
----------------------


Look Under The Rock posted:

I'd be interested to see a mechanic based on petitioning gods, who would be players outside of the game with boons to grant and alignments/win conditions but no knowledge of who has which role and no ability to post within the thread. They can only influence the outcome of the game by privately granting boons that they are asked for publicly; for instance, one god might get to decide what the order of operations for night actions will be, one might grant a one-shot ability to beg a boon privately instead of needing to ask it in thread, one might give a token that empowers or complicates existing role abilities.

Any thoughts on this?
I would play or run the gently caress out of that game.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008





I've been thinking of running a game with a cult at some point, and these posts have me worried people won't enjoy it because of the cult existing. I've been trying to think of ways to counter that, and I'm thinking of maybe an even night mason recruiter who kills cultists if he attempts to recruit them. Maybe have masons as being un-cultable too?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

100YrsofAttitude posted:

Have you read my mafiathoughts.doc? I have this very same idea noted down somewhere. I eventually gave it up when I realized I had no where near the experience to try to balance such a game. My idea ranged across three players who affected it via good vs. neutral vs. chaotic (like D&D alignments). In the end though, I felt it wouldn't be particular fun for the non-god players and those actions could just as easily be done in a more fair way by the mod themselves.

please post the mafiathoughts.doc

wall monitor
Jan 1, 2007



I'm thinking about getting back into Mafia now that my life is a bit less busy (among other things, i bought and moved into a house). I wanted to get initial thoughts on a setup I'd been thinking about running...

Shovel Knight Mafia
9-12ish players
Regular town/scum split (1 scum per 2.5 town?)
Instead of voting, there is a dueling mechanic. Anyone can challenge someone to a duel, at which point a vote between the two starts. Whoever gets a majority of votes or gets lynched, and this triggers night phase as usual.
People might have powers (themed as each Knight's signature magic weapon) that influence the dueling mechanic... not sure if the dueling mechanic is too complex already or not though.

Thoughts?

Chili
Jan 23, 2004

College kids ain't shit


Grimey Drawer

Hey, I went around looking for a game to dump all of my neurosis on and I'm finding nothing. This thread is confusing.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


BottleKnight posted:

=======================================

Currently recruiting games!

Slack Mafia #1, Hosted by Lumpen.

=======================================

Only one game recruiting right now but Ecco has promised an EccoGame about dragons that will be open for signups on Monday

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Hello would anyone like to take a look at a second draft of a setup for me so I can run a game soon

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013

If I could have it back
All the time that we wasted
I'd only waste it again
If I could have it back
You know I'd love to waste it again
Waste it again and again and again

wall monitor posted:

I'm thinking about getting back into Mafia now that my life is a bit less busy (among other things, i bought and moved into a house). I wanted to get initial thoughts on a setup I'd been thinking about running...

Shovel Knight Mafia
9-12ish players
Regular town/scum split (1 scum per 2.5 town?)
Instead of voting, there is a dueling mechanic. Anyone can challenge someone to a duel, at which point a vote between the two starts. Whoever gets a majority of votes or gets lynched, and this triggers night phase as usual.
People might have powers (themed as each Knight's signature magic weapon) that influence the dueling mechanic... not sure if the dueling mechanic is too complex already or not though.

Thoughts?

The duel thing should work fine. It sounds a bit like the mechanic in a temple game. I think the problem that would arise is if you get two townie dueling and scum just checking out seeing as they're not in harm's way.

Captain Foo posted:

please post the mafiathoughts.doc

It was known as Mafia Game Ideas. I had some other notes tossed here and there based on certain things. My Gods idea was a cult recruiter game with various competing cults. Most of my ideas were based heavily on the flavor of what I wanted to theme the game around, which would make for heavily imbalanced games, especially considering that I'm bad at balancing to begin with.

Take for example my idea for Old Man and the Sea. It would have a normal game featuring fish and sharks as town and scum respectively. The Old Man was going to be a 3p lyncher whose target was the 3p survivor Marlin. You can see how messy that can get. I have a bunch of dumb ideas like that.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

100YrsofAttitude posted:

The duel thing should work fine. It sounds a bit like the mechanic in a temple game. I think the problem that would arise is if you get two townie dueling and scum just checking out seeing as they're not in harm's way.


It was known as Mafia Game Ideas. I had some other notes tossed here and there based on certain things. My Gods idea was a cult recruiter game with various competing cults. Most of my ideas were based heavily on the flavor of what I wanted to theme the game around, which would make for heavily imbalanced games, especially considering that I'm bad at balancing to begin with.

Take for example my idea for Old Man and the Sea. It would have a normal game featuring fish and sharks as town and scum respectively. The Old Man was going to be a 3p lyncher whose target was the 3p survivor Marlin. You can see how messy that can get. I have a bunch of dumb ideas like that.

oh, i gotcha

Look Under The Rock
Oct 20, 2007

you can't take the sky from me


I'm gonna work on the gods setup. It should be far less of a nightmare than the Gossip Girl setup I've been avoiding looking at again.

Anyone care to suggest flavor? Doesn't have to be divine flavored. I'll make it work if I think it's good.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013

If I could have it back
All the time that we wasted
I'd only waste it again
If I could have it back
You know I'd love to waste it again
Waste it again and again and again

Look Under The Rock posted:

I'm gonna work on the gods setup. It should be far less of a nightmare than the Gossip Girl setup I've been avoiding looking at again.

Anyone care to suggest flavor? Doesn't have to be divine flavored. I'll make it work if I think it's good.

Rodents who worship different types of cheese.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

H O L E
M A D N E S S


Grimey Drawer

This came up in a recent game, and I'm kinda curious about the thought behind it as no one seemed to feel it was weird but me. What is the point of claiming, but not full claiming, in some contexts? We had a player claim they knew, undoubtedly, that a player was scum but they would not reveal their actual role. Claiming you know someone will for sure flip scum seems like a great way to get yourself targeted for the NK, so why not fullclaim then and there?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

devil on your shoulder





Clever Betty

Kashuno posted:

This came up in a recent game, and I'm kinda curious about the thought behind it as no one seemed to feel it was weird but me. What is the point of claiming, but not full claiming, in some contexts? We had a player claim they knew, undoubtedly, that a player was scum but they would not reveal their actual role. Claiming you know someone will for sure flip scum seems like a great way to get yourself targeted for the NK, so why not fullclaim then and there?

Typically, to obscure how you know. Maybe you're a tracker, or a watcher, who spotted the previous NK. Maybe you're a Cop. Maybe you received a message. Maybe your masonbuddy is a cop. Maybe you're bluffing.

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Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



Kashuno posted:

This came up in a recent game, and I'm kinda curious about the thought behind it as no one seemed to feel it was weird but me. What is the point of claiming, but not full claiming, in some contexts? We had a player claim they knew, undoubtedly, that a player was scum but they would not reveal their actual role. Claiming you know someone will for sure flip scum seems like a great way to get yourself targeted for the NK, so why not fullclaim then and there?

Please don't discuss ongoing games, especially one that you're alive in~

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