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EB Nulshit
Apr 12, 2014

It was more disappointing (and surprising) when I found that even most of Manhattan isn't like Times Square.


Some artists have 9-5 jobs working on video games, movies, and in some other industries, if I understand right. How do they get jobs?

I know that for software developers, hiring someone only to discover they can't write code sucks a lot, so there are stressful in-person interviews where you write code in front of people, and take-home assignments by some companies where you build a thing they ask for and show it to them as proof you can code. This seems to me like demanding that artists create a new piece of work for you or come in and paint in front of you for six hours to prove they know what they're doing. Are artists just more honest? I.e., are they less likely to steal other artists' work for their portfolio to help them get jobs? Because "here, look at this portfolio of code I wrote" isn't a popular way of getting a job as a coder, AFAIK.

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Lolcano Eruption
Oct 29, 2007
Volcano of LOL.

The reason CS majors need to be tested is because they suck at communication / social skills. Everyone else gets by on speaking to people.

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless


They have a portfolio that they show prospective employers and its obvious that its their work because they talk about it like it is and you can crosscheck that by using your eyes or ears and your standard issue human brain. You can't do that with code.

If it's a job that matters and they also have to be able to do stuff in a timely way or under certain technical constraints then they demonstrate this by having work experience where they would have had to do those kinds of things before.

surc
Aug 17, 2004

Tenuki Tanuki.


It does not end well for you if you get hired and the company finds out you stole a piece in your portfolio and/or do not have the skills to do the job. And if all your stuff is of similar quality except the badass piece that looks nothing like any of your other work, they might ask if you have other work like that. People most definitely do steal stuff for their portfolio though, just like people lie on their resumes.


Also, 'here, look at this list of projects I worked on/created myself" is how plenty of coders get hired. Or you might be asked questions about how something works, or what you'd do if you encountered a type of problem, which is like a portfolio of what you know. At the end of the day, it's the same intent, it's just that there's different ways of demonstrating that you have the required skills.

surc fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Sep 25, 2015

Zvezda
Dec 12, 2009


It depends on the company. I got hired solely on my CV, portfolio and interview, but a lot of places ask for an art test before the interview stage, which is like, "Hey, here's a brief, make this thing in our art style!" and they range from stuff that they expect done in a day or two or something that will eat up a week of your life. It's pretty crummy, especially when they can't provide feedback or anything more than a generic rejection to unsuccessful applications, but I guess it's a good way of zoning in on the artists who'll be able to hit the ground running art-wise.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



most jobs don't have tests or that insane bullshit where they ask you to handwrite a functional script from scratch on a whiteboard in front of a half dozen disapproving strangers, OP, even computer man jobs don't always do that. They ask you a bunch of questions about the work you've done and the stuff you're good at and what you're looking for in a job etc. and if you sound like you know what you're talking about and have the documentation to back it up you might get the job

I've been involved in hiring some graphic designers and stuff and an easy way to blow people out of the water is to show up with a cool thing you custom designed for their company that shows some talent and a general idea of what they do, so try that if you've got the time and an idea. I don't know if this works for like videogames or whatever if you roll up with your anime OC and heavily imply he should be the main character of their new game

Zvezda posted:

It depends on the company. I got hired solely on my CV, portfolio and interview, but a lot of places ask for an art test before the interview stage, which is like, "Hey, here's a brief, make this thing in our art style!" and they range from stuff that they expect done in a day or two or something that will eat up a week of your life. It's pretty crummy, especially when they can't provide feedback or anything more than a generic rejection to unsuccessful applications, but I guess it's a good way of zoning in on the artists who'll be able to hit the ground running art-wise.

If a place lets you know they expect you to give them days of labor for free before they've even hired you that is the most explicit possible invitation to seek work elsewhere, jesus christ

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Sep 27, 2015

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.


Pillbug

Lolcano Eruption posted:

The reason CS majors need to be tested is because they suck at communication / social skills. Everyone else gets by on speaking to people.

Well, no. Developers who are unable to communicate well will get screened out pretty quickly, since teamwork is an essential part of developing software.

Software development is a creative profession, inasmuch as it requires creating things. You wouldn't hire a carpenter to build you a chair without first validating that they have built chairs in the past and their chairs don't suck.

Artists always have portfolios. Software developers sometimes do, but the most common way of proving that they can write software is to test their ability to write software.

Some cultures heavily emphasize rote memorization. I have interviewed developers who can give a textbook perfect answer for any question you ask them but can't write software well. Back to the chair analogy, they have read every possible book on the subject of carpentry without ever putting it into practice.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

even computer man jobs don't always do that. They ask you a bunch of questions about the work you've done and the stuff you're good at and what you're looking for in a job etc.

In the software development field, bad companies that you don't want to work for don't assess your actual ability to write software. It's considered a huge red flag.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Ithaqua posted:

Well, no. Developers who are unable to communicate well will get screened out pretty quickly, since teamwork is an essential part of developing software.

I take it you have not actually interviewed for many computer jobs, where being stuck in a room being "interviewed" by three awkwardly silent greasy guys is fairly typical

Ithaqua posted:

In the software development field, bad companies that you don't want to work for don't assess your actual ability to write software. It's considered a huge red flag.

Considered by who, because that is the opposite of everything I've seen. The whiteboard thing has no relation to the actual process of writing code that will work on a computer, and companies that have bizarro interview requirements and tests and hoops to jump through instead of looking at your prior work and talking to you like a human begin as they mean to go on. These are also the jobs that send the greaser who can't come up with questions to interview you.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Sep 27, 2015

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.


Pillbug

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

I take it you have not actually interviewed for many computer jobs, where being stuck in a room being "interviewed" by three awkwardly silent greasy guys is fairly typical


My experience is the opposite. The whiteboard thing has no relation to the actual process of writing code that will work on a computer, and companies that have bizarro interview requirements and tests and hoops to jump through instead of looking at your prior work and talking to you like a human always intend to continue as they started

I've been writing software professionally for 11 years and have been on both sides of the interviewing table dozens of times. Awkward doesn't always mean unable to communicate and collaborate well with others.

I don't want to derail the thread (it's about artists, not developers), so I won't get into a debate about the relative merits of software developer interviewing techniques. All I can say is that I will not work for a company that doesn't vet my technical chops in some fashion prior to hiring me. If they don't vet me, that means they didn't vet anyone else, which means the likelihood is astronomical that the team is churning out terrible software.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Everyone gets vetted for interviews in every position there is, that's what interviews are. If a company demands you make them a new ad campaign for free or gives you a myers-briggs test or sends a guy who can't interview to interview you or surprises you with paints and a canvas and a roomful of strangers who are going to watch you paint your masterpiece right now or is otherwise weird and unpleasant be aware that if you take that job that is what your life will be like from then on.

TBF in art/design type jobs I've seen the test thing maybe once, I've seen the 'go home and make us our new logo' thing a bunch of times and it should be no surprise that at least half the time those companies wind up deciding they don't need that position filled right now after all and then a month later rolling out a new logo that's 2% different from the best of the candidates' entries

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.


For design jobs they ask you for your portfolio, and then in the interview you sit down with it and you explain the processes and reasoning you used behind each item in your portfolio to prove you know what you're doing and you didn't just do stuff at random with no reason. Sort of like knowing the "why" behind the code instead of just memorizing stuff.

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Alterian
Jan 28, 2003



The process of getting an artist position at a game studio: Have a good portfolio, apply, if they like your portfolio you'll get an art test and then a phone interview (sometimes these are swapped). If they like your art test, you'll get an on site interview. If you do well at that, the'll offer you a job.

If you refuse to do art tests in the game industry, you will most likely never get a job as an artist. I've been on both sides of the equation of taking art tests and giving art tests. These are never used to create assets that would be used in production. It tends to be a small self contained project where you're given instructions & concept art and told to create an asset. Its a pretty good weeding out tool to see if someone is capable of the skills they show in their portfolio. Its also funny that after a while you see art tests in other people's portfolios that you've also done yourself. Honestly, the more sketchy a job is the least likely they are to have an art test.

I've left working at a studio and now teach full time. Trying to work 40 - 60 hours+ a week and maintain an up to date portfolio (because you can't put in it what you're doing at work because of NDA's!) for when you inevitably come into work one Friday and no longer have a job and have to scramble to start applying to places was too stressful for me. Now I have a guaranteed job with summers off and get paid to stay up to date on industry standards.

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