[Mafia] Wizards Mafia II: Return to the Ivory Tower

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] Wizards Mafia II: Return to the Ivory Tower

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Sounds like fun, and it doesn't look like it will start until after I'm done grading this stack 'o' papers, so count me in. :smugwizard:

# ¿ Sep 28, 2015 17:45

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 05:32

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

SirSamVimes posted:

Are wizzards accepted or only hoity toity wizards?

Power: Can run to another game in order to avoid being killed.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2015 21:34

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Tenure at Unseen University received.

Someone get me directions to the dinner table.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 14:59

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Kashuno that is not a spell. I think you may be confused

It's a Gauntlet of Chastity Defense. :smug:

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 15:37

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

I think I've solved this riddle, m'lads. All we need is to obtain 5,000GP worth of diamonds every day, and we're lynch-proof.

GG WP.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 15:47

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Green Intern posted:

You must be one of those cleric exchange students.

How did you know the plot of my next Harry Potter fanfic???

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 16:09

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Nth Doctor posted:

I was working on the inner city American wizarding school fic, but then Key and Peele stole my whole bit.

I was not aware this bit existed. My day just got a little better!

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 17:41

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Podima posted:

This sounds weird as hell, has anyone used these in a SA game? Curious how they work out in practice.

They sound kind of cheaty. Like, Gygax-DM level poo poo.

"Haha! That person flipped vanilla town but they were actually scum! I denied you the only information you have to make decisions based on! I'm so clever!! :d:

"

Of course, I'm a relative newb who hasn't played in a couple of years, so what do I know?

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 22:01

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

That being said, a newbie advocating a no lynch is more of a town tell than a scum tell, because a newbie is likely to be asking questions in the scum doc and getting "coached" into what not to say, so to speak. If someone asks about no lynches in a scum doc, chances are they will be told not to mention it

But with a newbie, there's always the chance they might blurt without asking, or misinterpret coaching.

Hell, if we want to get really tinfoil, they may have been coached to make a blunder, so someone can talk them out of it, and get them through day 1 with an aura of "newbie town" about them....

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 01:17

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

I didn't mean for the third idea to be taken completely seriously, I was just pointing out that his blunder by no means makes him verified town. So far Biga's still the best candidate for a lynch in my book.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 01:28

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

The defeatist "but I could totally help" attitude just comes across as scummy to me.

##vote Biaga##

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 03:19

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Gabriel Pope posted:

Kashuno is trying way too hard, but he seems confident in his convictions. I find Hermetic's opportunism a lot more eyebrow-raising:

Kashuno jumped on the Biaga vote ASAP, but Heremetic waited for it to conveniently build up some steam before joining in, then tries to stoke things up again when the fire starts to die down. With the weirdest, craziest theory I've ever seen, no less, then backpedaling when it's pointed out how crazy it is.

Or I've been busy IRL today, so I'm not posting a lot. I waited around to hear the arguments on Biagra (since I'm a tad hesitant on lynching someone new myself), and finally made a decision based on arguments and evidence, like a rational person might do.

Oh, and I never backpedaled. As you'll notice, I pointed out that the third theory was "full tinfoil", which I assumed made it fairly obvious that it wasn't meant to be wholly serious.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 04:35

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

"really tinfoil", not "full tinfoil". My mistake.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 04:36

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Someone Awful! posted:

harsh stance towards a newbie freaking out about being attacked, while at the same time self-describing as a "relative newbie" here

Once taken seriously, backs off somewhat but still thinks the logic itself is sound

and in their next post takes Biaga's defeatism as scum? what?

Now this might just be a me thing but I have absolutely no idea how to read defeatism as scummy, rather than just as newbie upset.

Disagree on the backpedaling point because Hermetic just hasn't posted enough to backpedal -- if anything, they've followed through on the statements they've made by voting for biaga. (preview edit: hi hermetic)

Would vote, but I think there's probably a better candidate

Hi Someone Awful!

It's less the defeatism being scummy, but the tone of it. Like he's feigning defeatism and trying to get us to back off. He has an attitude of "Go ahead and lynch me...BUT YOU'LL BE SORRY!" It feels a tad off to me.

I do agree that there are better candidates, though keeping me on your scumdar isn't the worst idea. My lack of posting and appearance of bandwagoning is a bit scummy, I admit.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 04:46

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Someone Awful! posted:

I'd still be more inclined to believe biaga as a dumb newbie non-vanilla town than scum tbqh (note: not fishing for power roles, this is just my opinion)

Yeah, I'm gonna feel dumb as gently caress if he's got a useful power and we make him do a mid-air jig. That said, he's the closest thing to a viable option. I'm in the same boat as you: There are a few people that feel off to me, but all I have is gut right now, and I'd rather not just throw around a bunch of "U FEEL LIEK SKUM 2 ME" accusations. That seems useless at best, scummy at worst.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 04:56

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Podima posted:

I don't know what the ~SA Meta~ is per se, but this kind of "oh gosh I guess I look kinda bad" sheepishness tends to rub me the wrong way. If you're not scum, why would you call attention to yourself acting scummy? I don't want to get into even more WIFOM stuff but this is worth keeping an eye on.

I'm just bein' honest. If something I do looks a bit scummy, I'd rather call it out than be all :ninja:

about it.

Podima posted:

Why not call out other people for doing scummy things? I don't want to be repetitive, but that's how you find scum.

Because there's no case. My gut feelings are probably not going to sway anyone. Evidence is everything in Mafia, Mr. Wright.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 05:36

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Someone Awful! posted:

IMO it's still worth getting feelings out there. maybe quote posts that set off your gut "they're scum!" responses, even if you can't justify it, to get other people looking at those points too? Maybe they'll be able to articulate it for you in a way that'll make sense to others

Not that I'm suggesting being lazy and letting everyone else make cases for you, but generating content > not generating content

Fair. I'll give things a looksee in the morning or early afternoon tomorrow and make a post. In the mean time, sleep and work, sleep and work.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 05:43

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Evidence is demonstrably not everything in mafia - persuasion is. You don't have to be right, you just need to convince others that you're right. Looking for hard evidence that someone is scum is going to be an uphill battle, because everything is subjective.

As people have already stated, looking for a "viable option" this early reeks of trying to take advantage of someone's blunder instead of actually hunting scum. Gut calls are perfectly fine D1 - even if you're wrong, you can get people to respond to your prods and accusations in order to better gauge their alignment. You're coming across as even more defeatist than Biaga is here. This, combined with your tinfoil theory and Podima's analysis of your sheepishness, leads me to believe you are scum.

##vote Hermetic

If you want to talk about my gut reads, you were one of them. For some reason, they rubbed me the wrong way. You were kinda on my "watch" list from then

Jumping on me is the first thing you've done that I can say feels concretely scummy, though. You don't want to jump on the biagawagon, of course, because it seems to be losing steam, and at this point it would be too obvious. However, there's a lot of pressure on me because my posts have been a bit wishy-washy. (It's just how I reason through things without hard evidence. There's a lot of room for me to be wrong, so I dislike stating things with certainty). Thus, you can get a train running on me for the next 24 hours, avoiding more poking and prodding of others, and drive a townie lynch day 1.

Make a case why I'm scum. I think it will help me get a better read on you.

Gabriel Pope posted:

Looking back over Hermetic's posts, he... doesn't actually say much of anything other than his original Biaga case, except a lot of excuses about why he's not making more meaningful posts. Some people are lazy, some people are busy, so I don't really consider that a strong sign by itself. Reaaaaally interested to see what he has to say tonight, though, because the more I read this the less I like it:
[/post]

Busy. Taking some time during office hours to address some concerns and talk a little about my reads. If they don't read as "meaningful", that's because D1 feels like there's nothing to talk about to me.

[quote="Gabriel Pope" post="450853098"]
Feels like he's trying to reassure people that he's doing his homework but just doesn't feel like showing it to anyone.

I'm just not big on wild accusations. It feels like scum behavior to me.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 18:27

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Are you sure you actually read my post? I did make a case on you, it was literally in the post you quoted. Then I voted you based on said case. I've been poking and prodding people constantly, I don't know how you can possibly posit that I am trying to avoid it

Nah, it felt like you just lecturing me about my posting style rather than "Here is why Hermetic is scum like Solanas' manifesto". If that's your entire case against me, then I think I got all the read I need.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2015 23:37

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Did you ignore the second paragraph and focus only on the first? I'm sincerely stumped as to how you are reaching this conclusion because the words are right there.

As for having "all the read you need", I pose a question to you: let's assume for a moment you are in fact town and I am wrong. Why does me being wrong about your alignment mean I'm scum? Gabriel Pope is voting for you - is he scum too?

Wow, you jumped to some serious conclusions, given that I never said I thought you were scum, changed my vote, made an accusation, etc.

You're kinda defensive, mate...

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 02:32

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Also you said that jumping on you was "concretely scummy" so if that isn't you calling me scum then what is?

I meant I never said what conclusions I'd drawn from reading you. You'll notice I haven't voted you, yet, or made any accusations.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 02:54

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Gabriel Pope posted:

Yes. Yes, yes I have. Maybe... you should start???????

Very clever, but I meant based on the read. As a matter of fact, if memory serves, you voted me for one of my accusations.

You should probably keep your reason for your vote kinda close to mind.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 03:04

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

I love that Gabriel Pope and Kumbamontu are leading the charge against me for not answering their questions, yet Biaga hasn't posted in, like, a day and a half. Don't worry, though. No one is protecting their scumbro. It's not like the whole thing reeks of him being told "play dead until the bandwagon stops" or anything. Not sure which one of the two is coaching him yet, but Kumbamontu is reading as either frustrated town or tryhard scum.

My vote stays where it is, and will do so until my hilarious lynching.

Speaking of which, when I'm at -1, let me know, and I'll make my last post and self-hammer, K?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 12:53

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Deadbeat Dad posted:

Why are you sounding so defeated? Your job is to prove us wrong, no matter how awful you think the case is made against you - make us think you're so overwhelming towny that you flip this whole thing around and give us a bunch of good stuff to look back on D1 towards certain people.

You're only ahead by 1 vote, and -2 from lynch.. I'd much rather you claim at some point if you're still lead vote getter instead of self-hammering out of spite if we indeed are wrong.

Nah, at this point spite seems pretty cool. I'm good with spite.

Kashuno posted:

self-hammering is the least town play possible

That has never been my experience. You're welcome to move your vote if you honestly feel that way.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 13:03

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kashuno posted:

I like my vote where it is tyvm.

You just said I made the most non-town play possible.

Yet you don't want to vote for me?

That's odd. I basically just declared scum, according to you.

Interesting that you want to push someone else to vote for me, but don't want to be the one who pulls the trigger, so to speak.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 13:09

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kashuno posted:

You said this regarding Biaga, but now you're doing the exact same thing. You are giving this strong defeatist attitude, going so far as to say you will self lynch and that your lynch will be hilarious. You found it scummy when Biaga did it, why would people not find it scummy when you do it?

What I meant by least town play possible, is that it is actively unhelpful to town. There is a lot of information that can be gained by who is and isn't on the vote, and especially the hammer if they do it early/at a weird time, etc. If you are town, self-hammering is effectively denying your own team information.

Not being defeatist, still scumhunting. Biaga has ~~been coached to keep his mouth shut while his scumbros get the heat off~~ stopped posting. If anything, being this close has made me post a little more. I just think it's hilarious that everyone went from a solid lynch to "HERMETIC ISN'T MAKING A BUNCH OF DECLARATIONS 2 DAYS OUT FROM HAMMER! gently caress HIM IN THE rear end!" but whatevs. I'm literally the only person still on Biaga, so it was a good tactic.

You keep pushing me as scum, but refuse to drop the hammer, now that I've redefined 6 as my lynch value. You don't want to be seen as the one who does me in, so to speak.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 13:18

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

You know, I still think the Biaga lynch is the best idea, but that ran out of steam way too early, and I doubt it'll pick back up. I'm good with getting rid of you, though, Kash. Your push on me isn't feeling right.

##vote Kashuno

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 13:30

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Gabriel Pope posted:

Thank you for deigning to play Mafia in the Mafia thread you signed up for. Was that so hard?

You are taking this way too seriously, mate. You know you don't get lynched in real life if you lose the vote, right?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 14:03

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kashuno posted:

I kinda want to keep this guy around for his constantly condescending attitude

I'm not trying to come off as condescending, just lighthearted. Sorry about that.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 14:10

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Gabriel Pope posted:

Of course. If it was a real lynch vote I wouldn't have unvoted you.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 14:34

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

TMMadman posted:

I'd really like to see Biaga come in and give us some thoughts.

I'm all for this. I don't like a day 1 newbie lynch, but it just feels like "lay low, pretend you're pissed, and let your scumbros bail you out" to me, so without SOMETHING from him, I'm okay with either him or Kash today.

And I will continue to ignore Kumba, because I answered him, he just didn't like the answer, and he seems super mad about that, and refuses to admit that there's just not a good case against me. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to pick someone pushing me early for a lynch as a way to take the heat off of Biaga Smalls, I'd have to say probably Gabriel, because he unvoted me once the really big rush was off, and tried to play it like it was a pressure vote, despite the fact that he initially framed it as an actual vote (though he divorced the vote post from his case, which let him have wiggle room to justify it later). Kumba seems way too intent on me for now, and reads town who really seems supa-shure on his D1 lynch choice.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 15:38

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Can you point me to where you answered it? Because I think you'll find that difficult

quote:

You'll notice I haven't voted you, yet, or made any accusations.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 15:57

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

It means that I don't think it was a tell. Jesus christ.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:03

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

The above two posts are back to back. You're saying that, in context, that bolded phrase means "I don't think it was a tell"

Do you at least understand why I am finding your explanation incredibly difficult to believe?

To people that aren't Hermetic - am I being really obtuse here? Because I feel like I'm not but at this point I honestly can't tell if something is just flying way over my head

You seem obtuse to me, but maybe that's because I see the rationale from the inside.

So, since you've been focused on the Hermetic Pain Train for about a day and a half at this point, let's assume you've made your full case against me. Now: Who else do you think is scummy?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:26

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Gabriel Pope posted:

Ok, so take 2 on Hermetic.

Early on there's a good bit of jokephase posting from him, no big deal. Then he starts in on Biaga. Something Awful! summarizes the problems with Hermetic's initial case on Biaga nicely, but I'd also like to call attention to this:

Note that his weird stretch case is the only thing he's said about Biaga, but it wasn't completely serious, but somehow Biaga is still the best lynch candidate based on ??? He does eventually explain himself (briefly) when he puts his vote down, but he spends a lot of time after this hemming and hawing about putting his opinions out because he doesn't like making baseless accusations without evidence, despite having done precisely that on Biaga in the first place.

The rest of Hermetic's posting Tuesday is pretty sketchy but not especially damning. I've already noted the first time around that I thought this post seemed pretty earnest, which made me lighten up on Hermetic for a while. But then he started posting yesterday and the poo poo really hit the fan:

We asked for gut reads, so can't complain about the super vague "rubbed me the wrong way" read.

The attempt to case Kumba here is just bad, though. Kumba was one of the first ones on the biagawagon and he himself put the brakes on just as it was catching steam (this is pointed out to Herm and he ignores it.) He also claims that there's a lot of pressure on him for being "a bit wishy-washy", which is a mischaracterization of most of the people who were on his case (most people suspected him on bandwagoning grounds.)

Then begins the extended clusterfuck between Kumba and Herm, which is where things really go to hell:

This starts a running subthread where these two go back and forth for 24 hours trying to get Herm to pin down exactly what he means, eventually culminating in this:

So, Kumba's case on Hermetic was "concretely scummy" in his first post but now it's "not a tell"? He tries to weasel out of calling Kambu scum by saying that he mistook Kambu's post as lecturing him about posting (which is apparently concretely scummy) instead of making a case against him (not a tell.)

This, incidentally, is Kumba's case which Herm mistook for not being a case:

So let's break this down:

1. Kumba rattles off several reasons he suspects Herm, concluding with "this leads me to believe you are scum."
2. Herm counter-cases Kumba, calling Kumba's case "concretely scummy."
3. Kumba says wtf and reiterates his case.
4. Herm says "whoops when you said 'this is why I believe you are scum' I didn't think that you were trying to make a case on why you believe I am scum, 'I have my read.'"
5. Kumba says wtf and repeatedly asks for clarification.
6. Herm repeatedly asks "u mad bro " instead of clarifying.
7. Herm clarifies that 'I have my read' meant that "I don't think this thing that I called 'concretely scummy' is a tell."

Also, hey, remember when Kumba asks Herm if my vote on him also makes me scum in Hermetic's book?

Apparently it does! Also, the savvy connoisseur of bad mafia posts will appreciate the delightful aroma of Hermetic calling back to his theory about Biaga being coached, you know, the one that wasn't actually serious and we weren't supposed to pay attention to. It nicely complements the faint bouquet of Hermetic suggesting that I'm scummy for pushing him and also suggesting I'm scummy for not pushing him.

Furthermore, something something wine terminology he again claims that he's only under fire to bring the heat off Biaga. Hermetic, until you stepped forward I was the heat on Biaga. Your attempts to justify your Biaga vote were cribbed from my own arguments. I don't think he's acquitting himself very well now that he's back in the thread, but I'll lynch someone who evades giving opinions and then tries to weasel out of them over someone who merely posts bad opinions.

Other people have already covered how lovely the self-hammering posturing is, so I won't go over it again. I'd still really like to hear from CC and SSV before the end of the day but it doesn't look like there's a push to end the day prematurely so I'm feeling really good about ##vote Hermetic

That's a whole lot of analysis of me having a "eh, I was busy at work and half-paying attention" day.

Call it defeatist, but I'm basically resigned to a lynch at this point. Go nuts on discussion, but I'm checked out.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 20:56

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

I liked that post but you and CC would do well to summarize your points better or split them into separate posts because most people are going to see that and be like "HAHA WELP tl;dr" and ignore it

Nah. That would be scummy. So would not doing it. So is this post. Not making this post would be too.

##vote Hermetic

Because any other vote would be scummy. Though this vote is scummy too.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 21:12

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

##unvote

Keep discussing, whatever, I didn't realize I was at 6.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 21:14

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

no, gently caress you, scum. go town! :ghost:

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 21:16

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Someone Awful! posted:

I knew Gabriel was scum I just didn't know how to convince anyone else of it

and then I DIED

That was my problem, too. I had half the scumteam clocked by day 2, but it did no one any good, because I was dead.

Super surprised Kash was town, though.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 18:15

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 05:32

Hermetic: Sep 7, 2007; by exmarx

Nth Doctor posted:

Moxie, mafia aligned Godbabby was born D4.

Almost forgot, congrats on the baby.

Also the N+1 joke was the best of the game. Would have said so when you made it, but, you know...Dead.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2015 00:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] Wizards Mafia II: Return to the Ivory Tower