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Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Thanks to Gorgo Primus for the original thread OP, which I stole roughly 84% of


IRC Channel: irc.synirc.net #paradox
Steam Group: Comet Sighted
MapGoons: Go here for maximum multiplayer backstab

What is Paradox?
Paradox Development Studio and its parent company Paradox Interactive are a Swedish video game developer and publisher respectively that are best known for their real-time grand strategy/world simulation games that take place in nearly every point in civilized history, and playable as nearly every single country. Paradox games used to be well known for being buggy and unfinished at release, but starting with Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4, those dark days are long since behind us and recent releases have been criticized less for being unplayable and buggy and more for design decisions you personally disagree with, always the mark of a mature game developer. Many Paradox developers post in this thread, and we do our best to not drive them away with our spergy complaints more than once a week or so.

Paradox puts great emphasis on multiplayer and with the current generation of releases, Steam is a perfectly cromulent way to paint the map of the world your color while negotiating pretty borders with many of your closest acquaintances. It's worth noting that for pre-CK2 games Paradox has a fairly poor track record when it comes to multiplayer support, and many of their titles can't be played multiplayer on Steam unless you are playing with other Steam users. However if you are playing one of these older games, you probably know what you are doing at this point and already have quite a high tolerance for pain.

If you are new to Paradox games, it is strongly recommended that you visit the wikis of the games you are interested in. These are semi-official in that they are hosted by Paradox but the content is written by obsessive-compulsive players who really, really want to conquer the world as Ryukyu and turn the Ottoman Empire into an Orthodox Christian European power (both of these are common Europa Universalis IV obsessions). Because Paradox games are extremely complex and frequently lack decent tutorials, these wikis are full of helpful tips and information you might otherwise overlook.

Paradox also publishes a number of titles developed by other studios that fall beyond the scope of this thread. This thread is for discussing games developed by Paradox (or as a part of their now-cancelled engine licensing program), which boils down to the following titles:

Not Yet Released

Victoria's Secret

Victoria's Secret is a daring new direction for Paradox Games, taking grand strategy into the realm of dating games.

(this is actually a joke)
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/s...043700811993088
(or maybe not)

Links
Official Twitter (yes this exists)

Suggested Countries For New Players: Katarina-chan, Kiristina-kun

Current Generation Games

Hearts of Iron 4


Hearts of Iron 4 is Paradox's current revision of its top-selling World War 2-era sandbox. Fear not, NATO counters will be available as cosmetic DLC. Unlike its predecessor, Hearts of Iron 4 is stable (no more NoMinisterType Stanley Baldwin building 90,000 transports as Great Britain), fun to play and reasonably accessible (once you wrap your brain around how to build a military - unlike previous games, you'll need to actually order your factories to build tanks and rifles instead of pushing the magic "make armor divisions" button). The AI is pretty bad but arguably that is part of the Hearts of Iron experience anyway.

Suggested Countries For New Players: Germany, United States

What DLC should I buy for the "Complete" Hearts of Iron 4 experience?

  • Together for Victory: focused on the Commonwealth, with new/interesting focus trees for the non-UK Commonwealth countries and a more detailed system of subject nations (ranging from complete puppet to near-independent dominion).
  • Death or Dishonor or Cake: a smaller DLC adding focus trees and graphics to the road-bumps in Central Europe: Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Romania (Poland had a day-1 free-DLC pack that added similarly)

Popular Mods (the vast majority of mods seem to be either bizarre anime graphics mods, laughably overpowered national focus trees, or Make Germany Great Again!!!)
Kaiserreich: Out in alpha, still not yet ready for prime time, but the older version was one of the most complete (and hysterical) alt-history mods for a Paradox game ever made. Warning: the design direction of the HOI4 mod seems to be "Let's turn HOI4 into Darkest Hour!"
Après Moi, Le Déluge: Another alt-history mod (goon-made) that postulates Napoleon won his wars in the previous century and extrapolates from there.

Links
Buy at Steam
SA thread
Official Forum
Dev Diary Archive
Wiki


Stellaris


Stellaris is Paradox's entry in the space empire grand strategy genre, and what an entry it is. You can craft a race of hyper-militant religious fundamentalist space pandas who want nothing more than to kill the filthy xenos, only to run headlong into a corrupt and decaying elder galaxy-spanning empire of intelligent mollusks. Rumor has it humans are also included. For all the insanity (described by one reviewer somewhat accurately as "a space opera made out of Mad-Libs") we finally have a decent modern space-based 4X game. There are some bugs and other issues (such as AIs that leave you alone, a lack of mid-game content, and fairly thin ship customization) which Paradox and modders are already working on (there's already a pretty detailed Star Trek full conversion out). Blorg need space friends!

Suggested Countries For New Players: Earth seems nice.

What DLC should I buy for the "Complete" Stellaris experience?

  • Leviathans: Enclaves, fallen empires that wake up and smack you around, SPACE DRAGONS
  • Utopia: Build Dyson Spheres! Transcend your meatflesh as a perfect synthetic being! Touch the astral plane and discover hidden powers! The first true expansion (Leviathans was more of a "story pack"), Utopia adds quite a bit to the aforementioned lack of mid- and end-game content.

Links
Buy at Steam
SA thread
Official Forum
Dev Diary Archive
Wiki

Europa Universalis 4

EU4 is Paradox's flagship game/virtual world/pretty border simulator and allows you to do pretty much anything you want, as long as it occurs within the years 1444 and 1821. It features full fledged trade routes that can actually be developed and maintained, visible on-map weather systems, historical events, decisions and disasters that dynamically adapt to the state of your nation, unique national ideas for almost every possible nation from Ajuuraan to Zaporozhie, and many other game systems that will effectively consume your entire life. Plenty of goons just like you have had their lives consumed and you can join them in the dedicated EU4 thread.

Suggested Countries For New Players (in rough order of difficulty): Ottomans, Portugal, Spain, England, France.

What DLC should I buy for the "Complete" EU4 experience?

short answer: All of them. They usually go on sale when a new one comes out. Note that each DLC comes with a free patch with many of the features, so if you haven't played EU4 in a year it's a far different game even if you haven't bought any DLC at all.

long answer:
  • Conquest of Paradise - Focused on improving the North American native play experience, offering a randomized new world, and colonies now act like vassals and can fight for independence at a later date. Considered a bit out of date as it was EU4's first DLC expansion and the randomized new world that shipped with it was originally fairly dumb, but has now been patched into something fairly interesting (beware the wrath of Secret Denmark). Get it if you want to play as a North American tribe.
  • Wealth of Nations - Focused on improving the trade system, among other things enabling trading companies for imperialist powers. Get it if you want to make money as a colonial power.
  • Res Publica - Focused on new game systems for merchant republics. Get it if you want to play as Venice or the Netherlands.
  • Art of War - This essentially was Europa Universalis 5, but released as DLC for EU4. Completely improved the entire world map among many other quality-of-life improvements. Get it. If you only can afford one DLC get this one.
  • El Dorado - Focused on Central and South America, with unique systems for Aztec and Incan religions and states modelling the Aztec's religious need to save the world by killing any part of it within reach. Also added the ability to create your own custom nation if you wanted to play the Empire of Butts. Get it if you want to play in Central or South America.
  • Common Sense - Added all sorts of things such as parliaments (which work solely on the principle of bribery, much like in real life), the ability to spend monarch points you can't afford on making provinces better, and a much streamlined building system which takes provincial development into account. Get it. If you can only afford two DLCs get this one and Art of War.
  • The Cossacks - new game systems for hordes making them an early game terror, new peacetime management options (via 'Estates', which the jury is still out on - some people love them, some people find them too fiddly). Also adding fixed random new world generator and revanchism (defeated nations gaining bonuses so they can fight back instead of going into a death spiral) to the base game. Get it if you want to play as a Mongol horde.
  • Mare Nostrum - New naval and espionage missions (including slave raiding for Barbary Coast states), the ability to hire out your idle armies as mercenaries, and, most importantly, the ability to hit a button and reform the Roman Empire if you've conquered Europe and the Middle East. Most of the changes from this patch/DLC, such as a deeper espionage system, corruption (yet more ways for your map-painting to slow down), states/territories (replacement for overseas colony modifiers), and better naval combat) were added into the base game at this time. Since so much of this expansion was given away for free, it's pretty easy to skip, or wait until it goes on sale.
  • Rights of Man - the Prussia-focused expansion. Paid features: rulers have personalities (kind of like Crusader Kings, but not nearly as detailed) that can unlock the longer they stay on the throne, military leaders can learn traits (kind of like Hearts of Iron), and Prussian Monarchy exists because it's a blight upon history if a Prussian king ever has a military score lower than 3. Free features include the Institution system which reworks technological advancement to be a little less Eurocentrically deterministic and more random (although your North American tribes are probably still going to struggle to learn how ships work). Get it if you want to play as Prussia, or like the thought of your ruler having the vague stirrings of a personality.
  • Mandate of Heaven - An Asia-focused expansion which promised among other things new/unique mechanics for the Ming and Manchu Empires and a completely reworked Sengoku Japan. The accompanying free patch also added "Ages" (Age of Exploration, Age of Enlightenment, Age of Ennui, etc.) General reaction was disappointment - Japan got a lot busier and thunderdome-y, but Ming also got considerably more ridiculously powerful. Can safely skip this one unless you really like playing as Ming China.
  • Third Rome - a $10 "immersion pack" devoted to Mother Russia. Literally nothing here for you unless you play as Russia - which gets a new government type, troop type, province improvements based on Orthodoxy and free Siberian expansion (which is hilariously broken when picked as a custom nation benefit in the Americas...) Upon release the Paradox forums exploded because how dare Paradox charge money for things. Get it if you really like playing as Russia and will pay $10 for flavor and free Siberian colonists.

Everything else is cosmetic dlc such as songs, new unit models, and the occasional e-book. Get them if you like, but they do not impact gameplay.

Links
Buy at Steam
SA Thread
Official Forum
Wiki

Popular Mods
(these can all be found on Steam)
Europa Gooniversalis: popular Goon-authored multiplayer-focused mod
Third Odyssey: For some reason EU players REALLY love Byzantium. And Rome. So this mod lets you pile your Byzantines in a boat, sail off to Maryland (with the option to convert to the Classical Greek pantheon in mid-sea voyage because hey why not) and conquer America for the Palaiologos dynasty. You'll meet Viking remnants in Canada, your brother who decided to lead a band of Spartans to conquer Mexico, and Albanians. I am, sadly, making none of this up. It may surprise you that being Western-technology Byzantines in pre-Columbian America can be a smidge overpowering.
Extended Timeline: Steppe Wolf for EU4 (sadly, without Bulgarian Bonuses). Play EU4 in 60 AD as the Roman Empire, or in 2015 AD as the Russian Federation, and yet still forge claims on your neighbors.
Graphical Map Improvements: make your map pretty (there are many such as these, this is just the one I like)


Crusader Kings 2

Paradox's breakthrough attempt at becoming a serious development studio as opposed to "lol you bought HOI3 when it launched", Crusader Kings 2 was released on February 14th 2012 to the general acclaim of Paradox fans. CK2 covers the years 1066-1453, and differs from other Paradox games in that instead of playing a nation, you play as a dynasty, picking one of the many Kings, Dukes or Counts of Medieval Europe to play as. In addition the game has DLC either released or in the works allowing you to play as Muslim powers such as the Caliphates and Electoral Merchant Republics. Gameplay for everyone but the Republics consists of guiding your dynasty through the medieval ages, gaining titles and growing your power through war, marriage and intrigue; for Republics your focus is more on gaining popularity back home, building and maintaining trade posts, and getting stinking rich! Featuring such novelties as QA testing, a useful tutorial and DLC, CK2 is the first of Paradox's current generation of "releases that weren't awful" for which we are all grateful.

Suggested Countries For New Players: Ireland is usually considered "tutorial island".

What DLC should I buy for the "Complete" CK2 experience?
There's quite a lot! And only a little is forgettable (Sunset Invasion is silly but fun, Charlemagne and Rajas of India are pretty easy to skip)
  • Sword of Islam - Play as Muslim rulers.
  • Legacy of Rome - Adds flavor events and traits for the Byzantines, and adds retinues (Think your own "personal guard") for everyone.
  • Ruler Designer - Lets you custom make your own ruler and dynasty.
  • Sunset Invasion - A silly alt-history dlc where the Aztecs invade Europe, instead of vice-versa.
  • The Republic - Lets you play as merchant republics such as Venice.
  • The Old Gods - Adds a new 867 CE start date and lets you play as 'Pagan' rulers.
  • Sons of Abraham - Adds a ton of new features and events for Abrahamic religions, and lets you play as Jewish rulers.
  • Rajas of India - Adds tons of lag India to the game map along with gameplay aimed at Indian rulers.
  • Charlemagne - Adds an even earlier 769 CE start date (come on, Paradox, just make Rome II) and an attempt at a narrative-driven scenario of the rise of Charlemagne which doesn't work very well.
  • Way of Life - Goes back to basics and adds tons of events and focuses so you can play CK2 like the fantasy role-playing game it really is.
  • Horse Lords - Lets you play as Mongols and pile the skulls of your enemies in large neat piles.
  • Conclave - fleshes out your royal council, making them more than just stat boosts.
  • Reaper's Due - PLAGUE. Disease. DEATH! Your rulers will literally poo poo themselves to death. Also, there are events revolving around cat ownership (really).
  • Monks and Mystics - Monastic orders. Secret societies. Assassins (who presumably have a creed). IMMORTAL SATANISTS.

Everything else is cosmetic dlc such as songs, family crests and face packs. Get them if you like, but they do not impact gameplay.

Links
Buy at Steam
SA Thread
Official Forum
Wiki

Popular Mods
CK2Plus: Balance, tweak and content mod
Game of Thrones: Total conversion mod based on the A Song of Fire and Ice fantasy series


Somewhat Obsolete Games

These are Paradox games from before The Golden Era. They're not bad per se, but they lack the polish of later releases. Only pick them up if you know what you're getting into.

Victoria 2

Named for the Victorian age (1836-1936) that it covers, Victoria 2 is a game about industrialization, colonialism, nationalism and imperialism. It was a major step up graphically from previous 1.0 titles, and has a complex in-game economy that has only become more so with the recent release of the A House Divided expansion. While full of innovative ideas and concepts, Victoria 2 has proved to be fairly controversial with some fans as to how well it holds up compared to Victoria 1 and the other Clausewitz games in general. Most can at least agree that it falls short on execution with its byzantine game mechanics that are difficult to balance, its fondness for running itself without any player input needed, and a scary lack of profitable industrialization. The expansion improved on most problems Victoria 2 had with the cost of creating some new ones (making 'Uncivilized' countries essentially unplayable being but one), and the game sadly still suffers from the overcomplexity of its own gameplay systems. The recent Heart of Darkness expansion promises to fix colonialism, make navies interesting and fun, and add a neat crisis system for sensible wars.

Suggested Countries For New Players: Brazil, Belgium, Prussia, or Spain.

Links
Buy at Steam (yes, the collection with all the DLC is cheaper than buying just the base game and 2 expansions individually)
Official Forum
Wiki

Popular Mods
POP Demand Mod: Balance, tweak, and economy fixing mod
New Nations Mod: POP Demand Mod without the extra junk
The Imperialist Adventures of Srbja and Friends!: A mod based on the Serbian Succession Mega-LP that lasted from CK1 until the end of EU3 with the Kingdom of Serbia, and eventually Serbia-Byzantium, being passed around by increasingly insane goons who constantly sabotaged their predecessors efforts.

Europa Universalis: Rome

As the name suggests, Rome is focused around antiquity and covers the years 474-730 AVC (280-24BC). The game is a blend of EU3's nation-based and Crusader Kings' character-based gameplay, but unfortunately falls rather short of both the other titles. The black sheep of the Clausewitz era, Rome is repetitive, buggy and unpolished, and hasn't received a major update in years. The Vae Victis expansion did some to alleviate its problems, and it can be playable and even fun with mods (mainly Wiz's), but nonetheless it remains a bargain bin game. In addition, as of this writing the game has been made so unstable by the latest patches that it is not playable.

Suggested Countries For New Players: Rome or Macedonia.

Links
Buy at Steam
Official Forum
Wiki

Popular Mods
Reign of the Ancients: Balance and tweak mod, adds playable countries in 'empty' areas
Epigoni: Balance and tweak mod
Magna Terra: Adds the entire world as a playable area

March of the Eagles

Originally slated to be developed for Paradox by AGEOD, this Napoleonic War game covers the years 1805 – 1820 and seems to be Paradox's attempt to bridge the gap between the EU and HOI2 games (at least for people who were unaware Victoria/Victoria II existed). It was widely viewed as "Paradox's beta test of EU4's combat system" and didn't see much interest due to being effectively made obsolete by the far better EU4 shortly thereafter.

Links
Buy at GamersGate or Steam
Official Forum
Dev Diary Archive

Completely Obsolete Games

These are older games in their series, many years old in some cases, but you know grognards, we can't just let go of our favorites.

Hearts of Iron 3 (with the superior in every way Hearts of Iron 4 now out, get that instead.) Steam Official Forum Wiki
Darkest Hour (the most popular Hearts of Iron 2 remix) Steam Official Forum Kaiserreich mod
Sengoku (a Crusader Kings 2 ancestor, CK2 is better in every way) Steam Official Forum
Europa Universalis 3 Steam Official Forum Wiki
Crusader Kings 1 Steam Official Forum
Victoria 1 Steam Official Forum Paradoxian Wiki (no longer able to be updated, you'll still need it)
For the Glory (licensed fan remix of Europa Universalis 2) Steam Official Forum
Arsenal of Democracy (licensed fan remix of Hearts of Iron 2 - most prefer Darkest Hour) Steam Official Forum Outdated Paradoxian Wiki

Comedy Copper Mine
(the gold mine ran out when we hit Production Development 12)

Iron Cross

As evidenced by the thumbnails above, you should not buy Iron Cross; because, yes, those are actual screenshots from the game. While it claims to be the ultimate HOI2 expansion able to expand on any of the HOI2 games up for offer, this is the only expansion I've ever played that made every thing thing about the original game worse. It features babblefish technology, a tech system that will force you to invent some real life technology to decipher it, crashing galore, thousands upon thousands of new provinces (all empty) in such important battlegrounds as the Americas and central Africa (with few if any added in places that actually saw combat like China and Spain), micro provinces that can barely be clicked so as to allow you to play one of the billions of new and all important states such as San Marino, a 'playable' League of Nations with no IC or events (with more than one choice that is), and the horrifying ability to ruin copies of HOI2, AoD, and DH on command.

Suggested Countries For New Players: If you hate yourself enough to run this program, you can always try San Marino or Andorra.

Magna Mundi: The Game

So much worse than Iron Cross that it was actually canceled and its Dev run out of town. Featuring intriguing and revolutionary ideas such as that colour theory is worthless, that art and UI design are so easy that anyone could do it, and that the less your players know about and understand what they are doing the better your game is, Manga Mundi: The Game was truly ahead of its time. For many months this 'game' and the drama that came out of it was the gift that kept on giving, and we look back fondly on the days when Ubik would threaten to sue Paradox and claim that he was secretly given ownership of the Clausewitz Engine 2.0 in the contract he signed to produce it for them. It became considerably less funny when it came out Ubik's family institutionalized him without his consent and, in grand goon fashion, we were mocking a literally insane person. But Magna Mundi/World Stage/The Carnival of Lust (how Ubik referred to his apartment/game demo station) is still part of Paradoxian lore.

East vs. West: War In The Straits - Admiral's Edition

From the makers of AoD and their terrible Cold War scenarios was to come a full fledged terrible game about the Cold War; but sadly after being pushed back several years and then offered up as a possible free open beta, it was not to be. Promising to feature complex modeling of every last missile on carriers while turning the space race into a tab on the tech tree, intricate modeling of populations by age while reducing culture to a handful of vague groups, extensive research into which forum members want to show up as Mary Sue leaders of improbable countries in the game while putting little effort into finding out who was next in line to be the leader of the communist party of the DDR in 1964, no historical generals or admirals because "many of them are still alive as might see their portrayal in the game as against their right to privacy", an entire dev diary on how important the dozens of straits added to the game were, and a pledge that the game "isn't really prepared to deal with the ultra complex world of democratic revolutions, religion and guerrilla terrorism"... this game was always destined to become Magna Mundi: The Game World Stage: The Game 2: Cold War Edition. In short, after this Paradox vowed to never license out their engine to a third party ever again and the world's comedy is poorer for it.

May the We Are The World contest winning Spanish Iberian leader Padre Groggo rest in peace...

Lum_ fucked around with this message at Jul 19, 2017 around 21:00

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uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

You're missing the Hoi4 screenshot.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

ahh..what!? what?!
huh?!

I unironically desire a sequel to March of the Eagles.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Got it!

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009

The very sight of him was enough to make Bush, who had already had one drink from the well, feel consumed with thirst all over again.


Someone help me stop playing these bad games

Martha Stewart Undying
Oct 22, 2012



Personally I'm still waiting on Rome II.

wukkar
Nov 27, 2009


How many different renamings of Monarch Power will HOI4 have?

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


wukkar posted:

How many different renamings of Monarch Power will HOI4 have?

If it's not Mussolini Mana or Patton Power, I will lose my faith in humanity.

Michael Bayleaf
Jun 4, 2006



Tortured By Flan

Please make Victoria 3, thanks!

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007




I forgot just how ugly Magna Mundi was. It was a fun time following the development of that through these threads.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

I don't think we really need those tidbits about Crusader Kings I and any game that has a current sequel out. Plus no one remembers or cares about MM at this point.

Maybe keep Darkest Hour for now since people still play Kaiserreich

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

I don't think we really need those tidbits about Crusader Kings I and any game that has a current sequel out. Plus no one remembers or cares about MM at this point.

Maybe keep Darkest Hour for now since people still play Kaiserreich

DH is still the best HOI game out.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007


Lord Binky posted:

Please make Victoria 3, thanks!
I fear the closest we may ever get is steampunk DLC for Stellaris.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Enjoy posted:

Someone help me stop playing these bad games

I keep conquering the world basically and it's like "oh wow it was different that time" except it wasn't really

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


Lum_ posted:

Originally slated to be developed for Paradox by AGEOD, this Napoleonic War game covers the years 1805 – 1820 and seems to be Paradox's attempt to bridge the gap between the EU and HOI2 games.

Ambitious!

How is March of the Eagles in single-player, actually? I've been wondering if I should maybe pick it up during a sale or something.

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014


RIP Padre Groggo and Richard Lótàques

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

Tomn posted:

Ambitious!

How is March of the Eagles in single-player, actually? I've been wondering if I should maybe pick it up during a sale or something.

If you like the military aspect of Pdox games and nothing else, it's the game for you.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Keeping the Magna Mundi/World Stage/East v West stuff because but I'll condense the completely obsolete games.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?


Fuligin posted:

I unironically desire a sequel to March of the Eagles.

Seconded, I actually had a lot of fun with MotE. But not in vanilla, I had to use the "The Gods" mod, but it makes it much better.

Gorgo Primus
Mar 29, 2009

We shall forge the most progressive republic ever known to man!


Oh, I was almost done my OP-redo... oh well. Least the OP is updated either way.

Jackson Taus
Oct 19, 2011


The last incarnation of this thread cost me like a week of my life by introducing me to Aurora, so thanks for that.

Lord Binky posted:

Please make Victoria 3, thanks!

Also this.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

Yeah he did kind of jump on making the new thread needlessly fast I think


Anyway there's a new dev diary for Stellaris



quote:

Another artistic decision that deeply affected the visuals of the ship designs was the choice of having visible turrets on the ship. Since we want them to be visible to the player if they are zoomed out a bit, they also have to be a fairly large, and mainly placed on the top of the ship. The turrets aim towards their target and gives a satisfying broadside at times.

But the decision was not primarily an artistic one, the combat is not just some pretty light show while the game crunches numbers in the background. The lasers and missiles you see are the same ones the game uses to determine the outcome of the battle. So if a laser misses its target, you can see that it goes past it, and the last missile to hit, really was the one that landed the final blow.

It looks like the battles are still non-interactive, but now rather than just seeing dice rolls we get to see the actual battle? That seems like a pretty interesting change, and I guess necessary if they want to appeal to a 4X market. The complete lack of abstraction for what's going on or what the ships look like etc (especially since they're all turret dominated) is gonna kill my imagination a bit if I'm making my own scenario in my head but I think in the actual game I'll probably get over it.

Also those shields look cool.

mmkay
Oct 21, 2010


So I've recently bought a couple of DLCs I was missing and fired up Crusader Kings 2 at the earlier start as some Count in England. After some 100 years, I've managed to consolidate 4 Duchies and I was well on my way to becoming a King. Unfortunately for some reason the Catholic church's Moral Authority plummeted, which spawned over time multiple heretic armies, each one larger than the whole army of my realm (???). Also came across a pretty annoying bug where the Duke of Kent, despite having a 200 men army managed to somehow drag along multiple neutral armies from other countries totaling 4k troops and smack around 3 different attacking characters, including mine (those countries weren't at war with me). Oh and after all this happened, the Duke of Saxony, with his 3 whole provinces, dumped 10k troops in an invasion of England and wiped me out. So my question is - what the hell is happening with this game and is this normal?

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


mmkay posted:

So I've recently bought a couple of DLCs I was missing and fired up Crusader Kings 2 at the earlier start as some Count in England. After some 100 years, I've managed to consolidate 4 Duchies and I was well on my way to becoming a King. Unfortunately for some reason the Catholic church's Moral Authority plummeted, which spawned over time multiple heretic armies, each one larger than the whole army of my realm (???). Also came across a pretty annoying bug where the Duke of Kent, despite having a 200 men army managed to somehow drag along multiple neutral armies from other countries totaling 4k troops and smack around 3 different attacking characters, including mine (those countries weren't at war with me). Oh and after all this happened, the Duke of Saxony, with his 3 whole provinces, dumped 10k troops in an invasion of England and wiped me out. So my question is - what the hell is happening with this game and is this normal?

Crusader Kings! 2!

uninverted
Nov 9, 2011


The beset way to play crusader kings 2 is to do Ironman, not get too attached to your big empire, and just embrace the game as a crazy narrative generator, like dwarf fortress.

mmkay
Oct 21, 2010


I was playing on Ironman, which is why I'm slightly bitter about being wiped from the game by 10k upkeep-free event troops and I'm wondering if this is the norm in the earlier starts and if I should just ignore them all together whenever I'll fire up CK2 next time.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



I like the sound of the art blog and it looks like ship combat is going to be very interesting to watch. I hope we get a varied number of weapons and special effects that add a bit of randomness to combat rather than it being a linear thing where armor and weapons level always wins out. I also hope that impacts matter, I want some grit and fire coming off ships hit by especially devastating attacks and I hope missiles keep homing in when a ship dies and detonates on it's lifeless husk rather than despawning or circling it until they run out of fuel like in some games.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010

The Third Reich's under new -- and better -- management.

Hasn't word reached Camp Pendleton yet?


College Slice

Gorgo Primus posted:

Oh, I was almost done my OP-redo... oh well. Least the OP is updated either way.

Called it

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

ahh..what!? what?!
huh?!

mmkay posted:

I was playing on Ironman, which is why I'm slightly bitter about being wiped from the game by 10k upkeep-free event troops and I'm wondering if this is the norm in the earlier starts and if I should just ignore them all together whenever I'll fire up CK2 next time.

Play EUIV instead.

mmkay
Oct 21, 2010


Fuligin posted:

Play EUIV instead.

I usually do, but I saw Arumba's latest LP and felt the tick to do some more instead

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009


No orbiting planets. I don't know why but orbiting planets in 4x games just does it for me. I'd probably buy any piece of poo poo early access MOO 2 "spiritual successor" just as long as it had orbiting planets and more or less regardless of other features or lack thereof. There's something wrong with me I think.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007


No orbiting planets its the right choice for the scale of Stellaris. Its tough to say since I would love a good space strategy game with orbiting planets, but that is only really meaningful, useful, and sane to keep track of if you can count the number of star systems on one hand.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort


Koramei posted:

Anyway there's a new dev diary for Stellaris

Dev Diary posted:

Here is an example of the Sol system, and though it’s got a little bit more planets than most systems, systems being randomly generated and all, it does give you an idea of what solar systems may look like.
One of the things I can stand about some of these new Space 4x MoO wannabes is that they have like 5 planets in a system max. Everything I have read about the Kepler telescope and its discoveries points to our system being at or below average for number of plantary bodies in orbit of the star. Despite that, these games continually have this arbitrarily small number of un-imaginitive planets in their solar systems

We obviously need to see more before I can truly cry and stamp my feet about it but that really bothered me.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Pharnakes posted:

No orbiting planets. I don't know why but orbiting planets in 4x games just does it for me. I'd probably buy any piece of poo poo early access MOO 2 "spiritual successor" just as long as it had orbiting planets and more or less regardless of other features or lack thereof. There's something wrong with me I think.

Star Ruler 2 and Distant Worlds both have orbiting planets and to be honest I just find them more annoying than anything. The travel time within a system is a fraction of a second so it's not like orbital positioning really matters for timing, but every time you zoom back into the system you have to find where everything is again.

It also makes it essentially impossible to set up static defenses that actually stay near the planet you actually want them defending.

mmkay posted:

So I've recently bought a couple of DLCs I was missing and fired up Crusader Kings 2 at the earlier start as some Count in England. After some 100 years, I've managed to consolidate 4 Duchies and I was well on my way to becoming a King. Unfortunately for some reason the Catholic church's Moral Authority plummeted, which spawned over time multiple heretic armies, each one larger than the whole army of my realm (???). Also came across a pretty annoying bug where the Duke of Kent, despite having a 200 men army managed to somehow drag along multiple neutral armies from other countries totaling 4k troops and smack around 3 different attacking characters, including mine (those countries weren't at war with me). Oh and after all this happened, the Duke of Saxony, with his 3 whole provinces, dumped 10k troops in an invasion of England and wiped me out. So my question is - what the hell is happening with this game and is this normal?

This happens but it's not super common. The main issue is the game isn't really able to understand three-way combat, so when you have multiple armies in a region they all sort into either attackers or defenders - even if one is actually hostile to BOTH other armies or completely neutral.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

The coolest Fuhrer there ever was


Bort Bortles posted:

One of the things I can stand about some of these new Space 4x MoO wannabes is that they have like 5 planets in a system max. Everything I have read about the Kepler telescope and its discoveries points to our system being at or below average for number of plantary bodies in orbit of the star. Despite that, these games continually have this arbitrarily small number of un-imaginitive planets in their solar systems

We obviously need to see more before I can truly cry and stamp my feet about it but that really bothered me.

If you're going to have a lot of planetary management you have to limit the number, though. I mean if a planet is just a set of sliders like Moo1, so be it, but if you are going all out, you do have to keep the number reasonably low.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!

Runemaster.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


Panzeh posted:

If you're going to have a lot of planetary management you have to limit the number, though. I mean if a planet is just a set of sliders like Moo1, so be it, but if you are going all out, you do have to keep the number reasonably low.

This is true - but on the other hand, you could also take a "low-tech" route to sci-fi and make it so that half a dozen star systems is a large empire, with most of the new colonies being small resource-extraction mines and only a few true population centers outside of the home planet. Cut down the star systems, and you can afford to plop more planets into the star systems that are available.

That being said Stellaris is definitely going full space opera so yeah, can't afford to have too many planets to worry about in galaxy-spanning wars.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



Yeah I'm saddened that there won't be tons of busy systems. I hope to really, really settle Sol and have ships zip around everywhere with mining colonies littering space at every turn. I realise it's a performance issue but I feel like creating a mechanism for system infrastructure as a purely cosmetic entity that isn't tracking every individual point could be a good tradeoff. Take a system with 12 planets and an asteroid belt. Give it one habitable planet and designate the other planets as resource indexes that each adds to the systems total infrastructure potential. As the system population grows it visually becomes more busy as remote mining colonies, research bases and orbital habitats become the norm, but they are not actually tracked individually and are merely a cosmetic representation of the systems infrastructure level.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Pretty sure it will be moddable, this is Paradox we're talking about.

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Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



RabidWeasel posted:

Pretty sure it will be moddable, this is Paradox we're talking about.

Yeah. Maybe a bunch of small, tight, story-based scenarios will emerge from the modding community. I'm thinking 10-20 systems tops based around popular sci-fi themes. I'm pretty drat sure some sort of Fading Suns mod will emerge.

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