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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Development can get a little insane when OPMs are left with nothing to spend MP on but upgrading their provinces (Most noticeable in America), but I'm okay with it since its part of EU IV's transition into an effective EU V. Maybe a cooldown timer before you can upgrade a single province again, or at least a single category?

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Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Wouldn't that simply solve "Make it look nice" but as the system start to interfere with the player so he can't develop whenever he wants to it will become really bothersome, especially when you hit the Development Efficiency techs.

For instance if I have Dalaskogen in Sweden with its +5 Goods produced and I have dip points over I want to spend to increase my revenue I will want to spend all of it there. Imagine having to wait a year between each click just because someone I don't know don't want OPM's to build tall....

Groogy fucked around with this message at Oct 2, 2015 around 11:48

Wiz
May 16, 2004



Pillbug

Groogy posted:

Wouldn't that simply solve "Make it look nice" but as the system start to interfere with the player so he can't develop whenever he wants to it will become really bothersome, especially when you hit the Development Efficiency techs.

For instance if I have Dalaskogen in Sweden with its +5 Goods produced and I have dip points over I want to spend to increase my revenue I will want to spend all of it there. Imagine having to wait a year between each click just because someone I don't know don't want OPM's to build tall....

Improving Dalaskogen doesn't actually help anymore than improving another copper province because the +5 is base, not multiplier. You probably still want to improve that province for more building slots though.

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb




Simple fix for that is to restrict the restriction to the AI

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Or maybe just by tech group or government type. I'm fine with taking Hamburg in the late game and having to put in like 250 Diplo points to core it, but eastern Ohio should not have more people than Massachusetts in 1792.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

The Racing Game for the Chemically Imbalanced!

TheMcD posted:

Yeah, manual save and reload is the only way. In fact, the only way to actually avoid the civil war is to elect Curtis, negotiate with Reed and assassinate Long - with any other option, the civil war will kick off, and if you elected either Long or Reed, they will with 100% accuracy get kicked out by MacArthur.

I'm definitely going to try this!

nothing to seehere
Nov 11, 2010


Kavak posted:

Development can get a little insane when OPMs are left with nothing to spend MP on but upgrading their provinces (Most noticeable in America), but I'm okay with it since its part of EU IV's transition into an effective EU V. Maybe a cooldown timer before you can upgrade a single province again, or at least a single category?

Also the Spice Island OPMs. One of them I took in the current goon MP game had 30 development.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Wiz posted:

Most of the downvoting was because of the free patches introduced a number of major changes (coring costs, forts), because development is a paid feature, or because of technical issues caused by engine upgrade. The bad reviews have very little to do with the quality of the expansion.


Pharnakes posted:

EU IV: Common sense. Steam reviews are terrible, but the op says to get it but is only 1 line. Has it been patched into a good addition?

E: the parts that sound most concerning to me is the forts mechanic and that apparently you can't develop provinces without the dlc?

Oh my god, just get Common Sense. It's in Art of War territory, it's so good. People are butthurt because I'm not entirely sure. Province development is bad, I think. It killed my dad.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 25, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!


Pharnakes posted:

EU IV: Common sense. Steam reviews are terrible, but the op says to get it but is only 1 line. Has it been patched into a good addition?

E: the parts that sound most concerning to me is the forts mechanic and that apparently you can't develop provinces without the dlc?

Almost all the bad reviews are 'protest' reviews about how development is locked to people who own the expansion and buildings are limited by development. It has nothing at all to do with the quality of the expansion which blows everything other than maybe Art of War out of the water.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Lowtax


I mean I agree that it's kinda annoying that EU4 and to a lesser degree CK2 can be frustrating if you don't have all the DLC, which makes it harder for new players to break into because its not $40 its more like $200 if it's not sale time. But I'm OK with paying $20 every quarter or so for the game personally.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


420 Gank Mid posted:

Almost all the bad reviews are 'protest' reviews about how development is locked to people who own the expansion and buildings are limited by development. It has nothing at all to do with the quality of the expansion which blows everything other than maybe Art of War out of the water.

Common sense took away their ability to feel human, the greatest patch of all (since they were never human).

Anyways how is Paradox handing the departure of QA lead Anna Jenelius? Paradox games have steadily improved in stability and I'm going out on a limb and assuming that changes to the QA process have been involved?

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

420 Gank Mid posted:

Almost all the bad reviews are 'protest' reviews about how development is locked to people who own the expansion and buildings are limited by development

Not that it makes any difference to me (I already bought CS), but thinking about it, they do have a point: it makes CS kinda of a mandatory DLC, dont it?

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Elias_Maluco posted:

Not that it makes any difference to me (I already bought CS), but thinking about it, they do have a point: it makes CS kinda of a mandatory DLC, dont it?

I don't think so. You can easily play the whole game without developing any provinces. It takes some strategies away (like playing a free city and going development-heavy) but that's not unique: e.g. without art of war you can't make client states. That changes your ability to conquer your same continent past tech 23 but it doesn't break the game. You can easily play the whole game without making client states.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


The only thing I don't like about CS is that some regions are awful for development because of terrain, mostly it's mountains loving everything up but I feel like the distinction between mountains, highlands and hills isn't used very much (see f.e. Persia being basically all mountains and deserts with a few drylands provinces, most of which are in historically less-population regions)

420 Gank Mid
Dec 25, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!


Elias_Maluco posted:

Not that it makes any difference to me (I already bought CS), but thinking about it, they do have a point: it makes CS kinda of a mandatory DLC, dont it?

You never need to develop any provinces and it is almost never the optimal use of monarch points. The only countries where I ever had to upgrade development to fit buildings in that I wanted were starts in South America or Africa. Europe and Asia tend to have high enough base tax that you don't need to worry about it at all.

Chief Savage Man
Jul 19, 2010

i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice


When the game first came out, you couldn't do most of what you can do now, so the free features alone are probably a few DLC in and of themselves. It's not often that a game evolves into something that feels like a sequel of itself, and that's definitely worth paying for.

TorakFade
Oct 3, 2006

I strongly disapprove

I succumb far too easily to Steam sales and Paradox DLC system. Now I have padded CK2 and EU4 with every single major expansion that I still missed (even if I don't really plan on being an Indian medieval lord or a renaissance Aztec), and grabbed Victoria 2 complete so I can play 1200 years of history.

So I'm pretty into Paradox grand strategy games in general, but I didn't even consider the idea of playing Victoria 2 until today; what should I be keeping in mind for my first game?


e: VVVV

TorakFade fucked around with this message at Oct 2, 2015 around 17:56

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.



Has anybody linked this week's HoI IV dev diary yet?

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Dibujante posted:

I don't think so. You can easily play the whole game without developing any provinces. It takes some strategies away (like playing a free city and going development-heavy) but that's not unique: e.g. without art of war you can't make client states. That changes your ability to conquer your same continent past tech 23 but it doesn't break the game. You can easily play the whole game without making client states.

Yeah, but building slots depends on development, so without the ability to raise the latter, the former (buildings) becomes somewhat crippled. And I guess the complain is that the changes cripples a native feature and forces people to buy a DLC to be able to properly use it.

Chief Savage Man posted:

When the game first came out, you couldn't do most of what you can do now, so the free features alone are probably a few DLC in and of themselves. It's not often that a game evolves into something that feels like a sequel of itself, and that's definitely worth paying for.

I guess that's a good point.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Elias_Maluco posted:

Yeah, but building slots depends on development, so without the ability to raise the latter, the former (buildings) becomes somewhat crippled. And I guess the complain is that the changes cripples a native feature and forces people to buy a DLC to be able to properly use it.

That's true, but! A building slot costs at least 500 monarch points to gain the 10 development you need. This is a very marginal case unless you're going for a very specific strategy. Since buildings only cost cash now, it's likely that you can build more buildings total now than you could before, even if you can't develop provinces. Developing one province enough to gain a single building costs as much as 50 buildings used to cost.

e: 50, not 5, derp

e2: well, if you only need to bump it one point, then it would be 5 buildings.

Dibujante fucked around with this message at Oct 2, 2015 around 19:45

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



I probably missed it somewhere, did they talk about how Order of Battle mechanics will work in HOI4 yet? Just kind of curious what level of detail it goes into, for assigning officers and organizing things.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Dibujante posted:

That's true, but! A building slot costs at least 500 monarch points to gain the 10 development you need. This is a very marginal case unless you're going for a very specific strategy. Since buildings only cost cash now, it's likely that you can build more buildings total now than you could before, even if you can't develop provinces. Developing one province enough to gain a single building costs as much as 5 buildings used to cost.

Ok, makes sense

rizzen
Apr 25, 2011



BBJoey posted:

This. Darkest Hour is fun in spite of itself. The old Europa engine games are clunky compared to EU3, let alone modern Paradox games like CK2 and EU4. Darkest Hour is one of the most refined Europa games and it's still quite a step down in usability, and in addition I found that once you know the "right" way to play you're basically done because the "wrong" ways to play are so inefficient in comparison that all you're doing by experimenting is shooting yourself in both feet. Unless you're desperately jonesing for a WW2 Paradox game, just wait for HoI 4.

I ended up picking up both. In the end it was only like $15, so what the hell. Should tide me over until they release the new one.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


it's really bad to base opinions off of Steam reviews of DLC because it's really hard to find steam reviews of any kind of DLC that are generally positive because people want constant game development instead of release and forget games but they don't actually want to pay for that development.

Kainser
Apr 27, 2010

O'er the sea from the north
there sails a ship
With the people of Hel
at the helm stands Loki
After the wolf
do wild men follow


There is plenty of Paradox DLC with good reviews on steam though.

dublish
Oct 31, 2011


Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

I probably missed it somewhere, did they talk about how Order of Battle mechanics will work in HOI4 yet? Just kind of curious what level of detail it goes into, for assigning officers and organizing things.

They talked a little bit about in one of the earlier dev diaries, maybe last year? It's similar to HoI2/DH: select a bunch of units and assign a general.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Rincewind posted:

Has anybody linked this week's HoI IV dev diary yet?

Paradox please stop only showing half the political trees.

It's very rude.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Gamerofthegame posted:

Paradox please stop only showing half the political trees.

It's very rude.

The other half of the tree allows you to resurrect the Byzantine Empire

Takanago
Jun 2, 2007

You'll see...


On those HOI4 national focus trees, doe anyone know what the difference between a dotted line and a solid line is?

Pump it up! Do it!
Oct 3, 2012


Italy can probably be quite fun to play with, I really like how the national focuses helps you focus.

Takanago posted:

On those HOI4 national focus trees, doe anyone know what the difference between a dotted line and a solid line is?

It seems like with the dotted lines you have to finish both the previous national focuses while with the solid line you just need to finish one.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004


Lord Tywin posted:

It seems like with the dotted lines you have to finish both the previous national focuses while with the solid line you just need to finish one.

My hunch is the other way - otherwise you'd need to both befriend and claim yugoslavia to start a war with albania.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



I was assuming it meant 'requires an event', as in you can't directly research along a dotted line until something fires that allows you to. Like Air Innovations, for example, is probably one of those ones where you have to get lucky and have it pop after researching something else (like some of the secret techs in HoI2).

And the political ones like Befriend Bulgaria is dependent on other political factors at the time.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009


Dibujante posted:

My hunch is the other way - otherwise you'd need to both befriend and claim yugoslavia to start a war with albania.

Seems so, and the red ! on a green diamond presumably indicates mutually incompatible ideas.

Nckdictator
Sep 8, 2006
Just..someone

gradenko_2000 posted:

Has anyone ever written alt-hist fiction about a Huey Long presidency?




More seriously Barry Malzberg wrote a short for Kingfish for the Alternate Presidents anthology where President Huey Long invites Hitler for a state visit and promptly has him assassinated, starting World War 3

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Live fast
Die young
Bad mages do it well


Every time I tried to get into HoI 3 I couldn't do it and went back to Darkest Hour. I'm really hoping I like HoI 4.

Otherwise, I'll just continue playing Darkest Hour/Kaiserreich forever, so no big loss I guess

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Takanago posted:

On those HOI4 national focus trees, doe anyone know what the difference between a dotted line and a solid line is?

I think a solid line means you have to have everything upstream to do it, while the dotted line you do not.

Edit: ironically calling everything effort is really

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007



What determines military power score in Vicky 2? Particularly army score- I feel like mine is always absurdly low compared to other great powers for no reason I can figure out...

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


How much you spend on it. Keep your dudes fully supplied and max out your military spending. Also a navy. Dreds give an insane amount of mil score

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Also for the navy only capital ships count for military score (battleships, dreadnaughts, Ironclads, Man o' wars, and monitors). No matter how many other ships you have, they won't count as anything towards your military ranking even though they consume naval supply.

Technology also influences your military score - higher tech in general makes your units count for more, and naturally units like tanks will count for a lot more per unit than standard troops. Unlike ships though, ALL units get counted so a general rule of more = better applies. Officers also count towards your military score but I'm not really sure how it works - probably just raw numbers of officers in your population counts X towards your military score.

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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


It's Generals and Admirals, not officers, but it is raw numbers that boost your score there.

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