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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Kavak posted:

Development can get a little insane when OPMs are left with nothing to spend MP on but upgrading their provinces (Most noticeable in America), but I'm okay with it since its part of EU IV's transition into an effective EU V. Maybe a cooldown timer before you can upgrade a single province again, or at least a single category?

Also the Spice Island OPMs. One of them I took in the current goon MP game had 30 development.

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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Gamerofthegame posted:

Grog space game with ships designed to minute details?

You mean

Aurora?

Take Aurora's ship design, stick a RTWesqe campaign onto it, and make the battlefield 3D (hardest part). Done!

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


On the other hand Civ 3's colony mechanic for getting distance resources was something I missed in 4.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Also: Don't march into machine guns unless you have numerical superiority.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


It does seem like you guys are complaining that it might be possible to miss content or for it to be possible for not everything to turn up good for you. I've got no problem with stuff sometimes giving no bonus, personally. Sometimes poo poo just doesn't

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


It sounds alot more Civ-like, with pop units needed to work tiles with set production, which I think is a good thing as Civ city mechanics have worked well for years, and have a good balance between being able to leave them alone in most cases and get good results but can be tweaked for optimal efficiency.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Tomn posted:

It really depends on what kind of player you are. The developers are huge fans of statistics, to the point where I think they rely on statistics to carry the narrative of the game, as it were - there's a lot of emergent narratives that come out of the gameplay, but you can only tell that it's there if you learn how to parse the absolute shitload of numbers they throw at you from every angle. Without that knowledge (or the patience to gain that knowledge) the game's a giant, overwhelming infodump that doesn't feel much like anything at all. I wasn't a fan myself, but if you're into that it could scratch your itch.

Edit: Thinking out loud here, but it occurs to me that there's not really a lot of space 4Xs that focus on making you feel like you're guiding an actual empire of people instead of pushing blocks and numbers around in space, mostly for the sake of warfare. The focus is usually on the cool starships and the fancy lasers, with everything else there largely to research, design, and build said spaceships before sending them off to explode prettily. One reason why Stellaris has me quietly hopeful - the addition of Pops and virtues could go a ways towards making empire feel less like intergalactic starship factories.

I think that is an issue many space 4Xs have, and why I've never manage to have on click for me like CK2 or EU4. While in EU4 I can think about my nation as a entity wanting to increase its power, and see how that achieved, in many space games I don't see a need to expand, especially when the galaxy is small enough only 4 or 5 nations exist. Start ruler helped a bit - I went to war with other nations so I could get the planets to get the resources to upgrade my planets, but I disliked the warfighting mechanics enough the game didn't really grab me. As others said, I hope to see more of a focus on the nation itself and development of my people, to give me reasons to crush my neighbours if I want.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


The space 4X genre is probably unique in having no brilliant games for a long time despite a fairly steady pace of people trying to make good ones, and getting average/good at best. Maybe there's something about how divergent fans expectations are about the genre that you never get a universally acclaimed game?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Yea, just try to amphibiously invade the US.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Fintilgin posted:

Y'know, historically Paradox has done one final big bug patch on a title before they finish with it forever...because they're starting on the sequel.

Just saying... I called it in the last thread with EU3 too... :shobon:

On the other hand, this does seem likely to be a "Last week/day of work: Lets patch Vicky 2!" thing, more spontaneous/giving devs an opportunity to not stagnate in their own projects for a bit. Either way, I can't wait, for the crisis stuff alone.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Also: NMM seems to work out of the box with the patch (or at least it isn't crashing for me in my spain game)

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Considering its already in internal alpha (we've seen that devs not on the team have played it, and its far enough along you can enjoy it as a game, if not complete) I imagine we'll get it August at the latest.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


dublish posted:

Just like Paradox to release a broken patch just before a vacation.

When do they get back?

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Soylent Pudding posted:

Is Wiz's beta patch mostly stable, or am I going to find things bugged out if I jump back in for a try and take over Asia as China game?

CTA's seem a bit off, but otherwise its fine.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I personally don't like assymetric FTL types: removes alot of your ability to force a decisive battle by limiting options. If the enemy fleet can jump anywhere in X range of their nearest planet, you can't really defend stuff in X range well.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


popewiles posted:

Don't you remember your Battle School? There is no defense in space, there is only attack.

In which case wars devolve to blobbing all your ships into the biggest stack you can, and charging their homeworld. Boooooring.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Groogy has said he'll work on Vicky3 once he is done with CK2. When that is, is another question.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Groogy posted:

Tell your boss you want a vacation day sometime after tomorrow and before the inevitable heat death of the universe.

HOI4 coming out Wednesday confirmed?!?!?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Demiurge4 posted:

That's fine, do what you have the most fun with. The caveat is that if you don't enforce a minimum speed setting and no pauses in a Paradox game, you are going to be playing for 40 hours and then abandon it by the time the reformation hits.

The Goon EU4 game runs at speed 2, very rarely bursts of speed 3, with no pausing ever. We play for 4 hours a week, with a rehost or two in the middle, and will get through about 35 years every session: poo poo-talking, keeping an eye on other wars, and diplo take up some time.

Also diplomacy-wise: I'd say goon EU4 games have a very Napoleonic/congress of Vienna style diplomacy. There's alot of making alliances with your enemies enemy, coalitioning leading powers, and basically people trying to keep each other in check. This leads to betrayals, large hellwars (each person joins a war because their rival joined the other side, spread over the whole of europe and ME), and some ruthless crushing of states without good allies.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:

I'm not sure I buy that you'd be able to really control a PDX map game all that well via tablet? Like between needing to see the map or pieces of info you'd want to make actions on, and the various menus like budget control and whatnot.

I mean I'm sure I could be proven wrong, but still seems like a difficult bridge to cross.

On one hand, paradox games are just mouse controlled: that should make it portable to touchscreem without too much editing. On the other hand, precise clicking and mouse-overs are very important in paradox games, and those are kinda heard to do on a touchscreen.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Disco Infiva posted:

I'm going to play the gently caress out of Stellaris.

Agreed: Just from that video with quill18 and the two other dudes, the game looks fun, and huge.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


At Pdxcon, spent 2.5 hours playing the CK2 boardgame today - it's actually quite nice-victory involves conquering as much of Europe as is possible, but there is a dynasty system which actually works really well at encourage you to murder your children to get your favoured heir. I had three daughters, the two older ones being poo poo with negative traits and a youngest one who was clever. Married one off to England for peace (gets hee out of games succession) and murdered the other one sith the same card thst made my king due of leprosy. And those stories are what CK2 are about (I also conquered Italy but meh)

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Chalks posted:

Some of the people on reddit were theorising that the grey areas on the map are terra incongnita

No, Johann said it's just either bits of the map they haven't gor round to filling in yet (Spain, Germany) or actual wasteland provides (Russia). apparently some will be colonisable and some not.

Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 20, 2018

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


The termology Johann used is that eavh "Province" like Rome, Capula, etc consists of multiple "cities", each with their own trade good. The first trade good gives bonuses just to the province, the second and beyond can be trades to other provinces to give them a (stackable) bonus. So you csn explicitly send a bunch of wheat to Rome so it has a massive growth rate.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Half the problem was that the goon group had been out drinking the two nights before Saturday, so by the afternoon half of us were shattered. It was worth it to meet some other goons, but it wouldn't be worth travelling to solo. Although I did enjoy playtesting the new CK2 board game.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I forgot to ask Johann at the time, but they'd better be populists in this version... :helladid:

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Autonomous Monster posted:

If you skip to 11:06 in this video they start poking around in the province interface here and you can sort of see the system in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83FxSUjDvjc&t=666s

You've got 9 (what I assume are) cities, plus whatever's hidden by the scrollbar, grouped together into "the province of Roma". Each of them has what would appear to be its own pop count and a trade good. Trade goods apply their bonus to every city in the province, and it's additional copies of a good in a province that a "surplus" and can be traded, so I guess trade is done province to province?

If it's ten or so cities to the province then we're already down to 700 provinces, which sounds a lot more manageable.

Whatever is reserved to the province layer, I hope you can still conquer individual cities. States-only conquest causes some real dumb poo poo in V2.
Trade is done at the province layer - at pdxcon Johann talked about how you had to own several cities in a province producing the same trade good to get a surplus of the good to trade with.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


The problem with MP is that it pretty much solely depends on the quality of the individual ruler, and this doesn't fit the entire EU4 time period - poo poo kings matter alot earlier on, but by the 1700s and constitutional monarchies it's stupid you are still wholly reliant on the quality of your king. It sounds like Imperator is going to have your government type matter aswell, at least when it comes to the ideas matching them or something, which should help in this issue (Personal skills matter more in the roman era anyways.)

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I hope that pops, especially manpower pops, can die or are stunted during war - first though is a negative modifier to pop growth when your manpower pool is replenishing/below a certain number.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Yea, you will end up with huge piles of money, it's wierd. You'll burn through it in the 1900s when great wars start, but until then just spam railroads, forts and ports.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


AG3 posted:

I guess it doesn't count people like me though who don't play Paradox games on ironman and thus don't get any achievements at all, since the article also mentions that people who own a game but haven't played it at all don't get registered.

It does - the numbers are worked out from % if people with achievements to 16 decimal places. Just because in paradox games achievements are only got by 20% of the playerbase, doesn't mean you can't find what 100% is.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


zedprime posted:

The performance of India in CK2 was just a side effect. The real issue is nothing really spills over the karakorum in either direction without player prodding. So it's just an appendix of a dharmic thunder dome that's there just in case someone wants to play a Timur.

Being there from the ground up means there's a better chance to integration but the pessimist in me is still worried it's going to be an appendix just in case a player wants to be Alexander part two.

Yea, I don't really see any reason to not just end the map at the Indus - trade networks maybe, but I'm not sure if thats worth simulating all of india for.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Koramei posted:

The Seleucids literally had a giant war with the Mauryans—who go far beyond the Indus—just a couple of years off the game’s start date. If the game were solely about Rome then I can kinda of see the argument, but as we have established, it’s not. I mean hell, the Mauryans are probably straight up the most noteworthy power in this period; why shouldn’t they be in the game?

Fair enough, I guess - I'm just not that well read on the history of the Seleucids.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I honestly think Vicky 2 is too long, at least at the end - it should run to 1920, not all the way to 1936. It doesn't really handle the rise of fascism and the world economy in that period as well as earlier, and the jankyness becomes more apparent. Possibly should start earlier, around 1820 so you get the full transition from the Napleonic and a bit more room for alt-history.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I expect them to plan how they will deal with non feudal characters etc in the base game of CK3, but I'm fine with stuff that was DLC locked like merchant republics in CK2 being the same in CK3. Maybe make Muslims playable from the start, as they sre kinda s big deal.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Also both 1984 and Apres le moi, deluge are made by goons so support goon modders.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


EU4 AI is still fine, I think. It's not the best at battle micro but it can build states that actually challenge you.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Drone posted:

Pre-Ricky Vicky 1 was my first Paradox game and I probably have over a thousand hours in it over the years, easily.

How much of that is manually splitting /upgrading POPs?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Chalks posted:

Stellaris is fine. It suffers from having a random galaxy rather than the more structured worlds of other paradox games which ironically makes every game a bit too similar IMO, but it's probably the best space strategy game I've ever played.

This, it makes me realize how important the structured starts of EU4/CK2 are for replayability - Stellaris is too samey unless you invest your own meaning into having robots vs slaves vs peaceful happy citizens or whatever. Lots of flavour choices, fundamentally the same gameplay

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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


He's currently bragging about being 5ish techs ahead... in a game where mil tech only gives you +0.10 morale a level. Like, I get his general point (stack all your pops in one city, ignore the rest of the province) but research is not the only end goal.

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