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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

PleasingFungus posted:

What is your reaction to this image?



That's pretty much the answer to whether you'll like the game, I think.

(The thread is here.)

Never played this game, but why the hell are the turrets not in line? Is this some kind of crazy per-dreadnaught?

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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Giggle Goose posted:

I am honestly really curious about what kinds of DLC they end up releasing for this game. It seems to me that they could set it up to extend into the Cold War. I think that there are a lot of elements already in place that might make something like that possible, although they would need to flesh out peacetime mechanics a lot more.

I want a World War One DLC instead. HOI seems much more suitable to the conflict than Victoria.

Once you get beyond an Operation Unthinkable DLC, and maybe a Korean War goes global scenario DLC, I think the number of nukes makes the game unplayable.

I hope someone makes a good WorldWar mod. So much more interesting a scenario than Turtledove's War between the States scenario.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Kavak posted:

For the curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(history)

The country choice should depend on whether you're going semi-realistic (Historical conflicts and not insane hypotheticals like a Second Korean War or another Indo-Pakistani War) or bonkers.

How are those insane hypotheticals? They actually have a chance of happening. It's a low chance, but it ain't zero.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

A Buttery Pastry posted:

To put it into context, Serbia lost a little over 30% of its 15+ male population during WW1 if you trust contemporary Serbian sources. Yeah, it'd have to be pretty insane, to so outmatch the casualties of a country that itself suffered casualties that make the Western Front seem like a light skirmish.

In retrospect it was rather unwise of Paraguay to start a war with Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay all at the same time. A bit of a disparity in war making potential there.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
I was a decent EU3 and Vic II player and a pretty drat good CK2 player, but I've loaded up EU4 a couple of times and just found the interface overwhelming.

Can someone recommend a good let's play that explains the mechanics?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Started a game as Prussia, December 1619 with the ascension of George William to the throne (not an easy start). Took me about 5 in game years but I think I got a rough handle on how things work. Going to take out a loan, raise my military maintance and attack the Commonwealth for my independence in concert with Russia.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

algebra testes posted:

Actually the funniest thing would be if they released a game covering eu4 to hoi4 but called it something else and made it fun and accessible without ridiculous free market mechanics that drove all the turbo nerds mad because it wasnt victoria 3.

Edit: instead of free markets its about the death of autocracy and the era of revolution just not the industrial one.

It should start earlier, 1789 with the French Revolution and then run it through to 1920. Name it Blood and Iron after Bismark's famous speech.

Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 08:23 on May 18, 2018

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Top Hats Monthly posted:

Oh by the way Sparta or bust :black101:

I'm guessing they're going to fill in Germania and Hispania. They can't leave that blank, right?

Hispania definitely was full of stateletes at the time. They're probably just undiscovered countries now, like the start of an EU game. Not sure what they'll do with places like Germania at this time, it's just tribal.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Those provinces are so tiny! How are we going to be able to manage them once we get big? I hope that you're able to manage them by grouping them into super provinces that are of a size with actual provinces of the roman empire.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Crazycryodude posted:

There's gold, manpower, stability at +1 so presumably on the same -3/+3 scale, ADM DIP and MIL mana with new icons, all arranged as they are in EU4. The province shown has about 20 "pops", unless there's literally 20 adult males in the entire province that's not a pop system at all. That's a reskin of development that can move around, maybe has a religion/culture attached to it. The thing people love (or at least I personally love) about the Victoria pop system is that it's very granular and they behave like actual individual people who have their own needs and desires and political aims that they will actively work towards. This doesn't look like a system that can really support that.

Again, maybe I'm totally wrong, but just based off the screenshots we've got it doesn't exactly look like the most revolutionary and exciting game ever. I'll probably still play it at some point, and it's not BAD by any means, but it's just not getting me hyped.


Aren't pops abstractions of populations? 20 different populations in one provinces sounds like a good amount.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Crazycryodude posted:

From the screenshot there's only 4 actual types of pop shown, then with numbers besides them. When I say 20 pops I mean that the numbers add up to 20, not that there are 20 different types. Just from the icons, the 4 types look vaguely like social classes (guy that looks like a slave, guy that looks like a common freeman, guy in a fancy robe) and presumably make different things. Which really doesn't feel that different from 3 types of development that make different things.

Fancy rob guy is no doubt a patrician.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Tomn posted:

The pops thing is actually from EU: Rome. Back then, there were three pop types: Slaves, freemen, and citizens, all of whom lived in a given province. Slaves provided income, freemen provided manpower, and citizens provided research. Depending on your laws, though, you'd constantly be getting a slow promotion of slaves to freemen to citizens, so you're encouraged to get out there and conquer fresh slaves to keep the economy going, especially if you took national ideas that increased the rate of slave emancipation. Beating armies in battle also sent slaves straight back to the capital, so you ended up with with enormous, burgeoning capital cities fat with slaves and ex-slaves over time.

It was a pretty unique system, and the fact that it used abstracted quantities for pops didn't harm it much.

That actaully sounds way deeper than I realized the system working. Sounds pretty good at replicating the drive for conquest.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Are they actual pops as paradox fans have come to understand them (distinct independent actors with their own motives like in vicky) or are they just a number next to an icon on the province screen?

They have their own culture and religion
https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-05-19-paradoxs-big-new-grand-strategy-game-is-imperator-rome

quote:

Diverse Populations: Citizens, freemen, tribesmen and slaves - each population with its own culture and religion. Whether they fill your armies, fill your coffers or fill your colonies, keep an eye on their happiness - your success depends on their satisfaction.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
I wonder if there will be options to actually effectively reform the republic, or will the goal simply be to form an Empire?

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Ofaloaf posted:

But you just said the same thing twice??

The empire replaced the republic. I'm talking about reforms that allow thr republic to keep on trucking as a republic.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Mauryas are going to be the Ming of this game I think. They're going to blob all over the subcontinent and stubbornly fail to collapse long past schedule.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

StashAugustine posted:

whats the timespan on imperator again

303 BC - 27 BC if we take their "to the end of the republic" comment literally. If they want to give the player some wiggle room they could give them a round 300 years. Or maybe take it to 14AD and the death of Augustus.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Koramei posted:

It starts right around 300 BCE and goes for 270 or so years apparently


didn't you ever play Rome: Total War?

Total war pronounces it wrong.

It has a long A, not a long E.

ImpeRAtor, not ImPERator

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Groogy posted:

Is there an Imperator thread? Sorry if I missed it but tried to find any link to one :/

I don't think there's one yet.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
At least 9 unit types, but I'd be surprised if they don't have a siege engine unit as well.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Potzblitz! posted:

I’m aware of the history here, but the point is that Parthia is not on the map, and I don’t expect nomads to be playable on release. Maybe there’ll be a Dahae or Parni tag and “Parthia” will be easily formable by the player (although you’d need very favorable conditions obv) or maybe they’ll even have mechanics in place that’ll make AI Parthia pop up in most games. However, this is exactly why I prefer to have later start dates to play around with.

But I hope you’re right and this will be a non-issue.

The map is not yet finished. They could easily be on the map at release.

There is no way they filled every corner of Gual with obscure tribes and are leaving the interior of Hispania blank despite it being ruled by famous well known tribes.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Randarkman posted:

So, are we getting Imperator DDs this week?

Pdox forums says they'll start next week.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Torrannor posted:

I think the Old Gods start in CK2 is generally superior to the Charlemagne start.

Agreed. 1066 remains quite good as well.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Someone posted this over at the Pdox forums and I think it's a great idea

quote:

Could be something like adventurers from ck2, a roman general creates his own tag starts a war and then tries to call Rome into it as an ally they have to decide to either back him or lose his legion, or worst he actually suceeds and returns to rome as a hero making all the people back home look like asses. Could lead to even greater things, how do you deal with him? Arrest him? But he's popular? But that's the problem isn't it? murder him in his sleep? Frame him for treason or conspiracy against the republic (always a classic in roman politics)? Maybe spread the rumour he wants to become king, and pray to the gods that the people of Rome don't decide they would prefer him as king to the senate.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

The Narrator posted:

Having Generals be able to declare wars independently of their tag sounds wild, if also a nightmare to implement

That's basically what Caesar did though. Why would it be harder to execute than adventurers in CK2?

Also, I want to clarify that was just a random poster, not a dev who proposed this.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Rynoto posted:

Armies in Rome1 at least tended to be small 6-8 thousand unit stacks each with their own leaders because of the attrition limits. So if Rome2 keeps the idea of many small armies it wouldn't be that bad to randomnly have one run off to conquer surrounding tribes on a lark.

In the initial screenshot you see the Romans with 35k men in one army.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

JerikTelorian posted:

Yeah, I'm with you. Ripping out both alternate FTL styles like that is a move in scale almost unheard of in games nowadays, but he did it because it'll make the game better, and he's shown no problem doing that with other things.

Yeah, but I liked both of those FTL systems a lot better than the one they kept, so why would I ever bother to play again?

And what was wrong with tiles? They made perfect sense.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
The map is growing. Tribes now spotted in Britain, northern Germany, Scandinavia and the Ukraine. And the Zoom! Sweet mother of God, the Zoom!

Skip tp 4:09 unless you know German
https://youtu.be/Esf9xZW8HN8

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
How about a Stellaris crossover DLCwith Imperator.

Aliens are running amok, playing Mesopotamian God King, or just kidnapping people and doing crazy experiments.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
A real nice pan over of the map from Britain to Bangledesh here from 1:25 to 2:13

End date will be 32AD. Which is kind of odd. You'd think 27 BC, 14 AD, or 68 AD would make more sense from the history of Rome.

This just smacks of them being terrified of implementing the birth of Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeXko8D5stA

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Top Hats Monthly posted:

It’s probably for the best

But they're going to have to deal with the spread of Budhisim in India during this time period, and presumably if the player interfers or an Indian AI gets lucky it can spread outside it.

I assume Zoroastrianism and other religions will be able to do the same thing.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Pakled posted:

They may have to do something like that, I mean, so much of what made Christianity what it was was the social conditions in Judea under Roman rule. If Rome (or some other massive empire) doesn't control Judea around 30AD, then Christianity as we know it doesn't come into existence.

If the game works as it should, then some huge empire should be ruling them. Either Rome, Carthage or a Successor Kingdom.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Too early for Sol Invictus but I think the Pythagorean math cult is still knocking around in this time period.

Go on

:frogon:

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Sindai posted:

It's worth noting that Johan claimed in an interview at PdxCon that they have no intention of pushing the end date back unless he can think of way to make playing an inevitably declining and decaying nation fun, and in his whole career that hasn't happened and he doesn't expect it to happen now.

This is dumb as hell. Of course it's not fun to decline and fall. The object of an expansion would be to successfully stave off stagnation and collapse.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

CharlestheHammer posted:

The whole system is based on the idea the Roman model is the only one possible so this excuse seems hollow.

Any player led nation is going to blob out of control until it's teetering on an overextended collapse (assuming a good overextension mechanic) and will thus need a similar system.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

GrossMurpel posted:

I can't wait to be at war with every single neighbor because expanding as much as historical Rome put me over my badboy limit.

From the time of the mythical war with Alba Longa to the defeat of Marc Anthony by Augustus, it is said that Rome was only at peace once, in the immediate aftermath of their victory in the first Punic War.

Plutarch posted:

Janus also has a temple at Rome with double doors, which they call the gates of war; for the temple always stands open in time of war, but is closed when peace has come. The latter was a difficult matter, and it rarely happened, since the realm was always engaged in some war, as its increasing size brought it into collision with the barbarous nations which encompassed it round about. But in the time of Augustus it was closed, after he had overthrown Mark Antony; and before that, when Marcus Atilius and Titus Manlius were consuls, it was closed a short time; then war broke out again at once, and it was opened.[1]

Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 11:52 on May 26, 2018

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Top Hats Monthly posted:

I wonder how you simulate wars like the Cimbri Wars. You have people from Jutland fighting all the way in southern Gaul and near the Danube with no real formal alliances

They mentioned migrating barbarian invasions in their announcement.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Prav posted:

i think it's weird that the goal in rome2 isn't to get a player character a) rich as gently caress or b) famous as gently caress and then when you're done ruining rome with that guy you move on to the next one.


Eh...things weren't ordained from the beginning to go off the rails.

Julio-Claudians were real unlucky. If the first four emperors had been Augustus-Drusus-Germanicus-Nero (son of Germanicus) then Rome would have ended up a lot more stable. That's ninety to a hundred years worth of capable rulers right there, and no reason this Nero wouldn't have had sons of his own, and if not him his younger brother. Also, if Drusus doesn't fall off his loving horse, he'll crush Arminius and the Roman-German border will be on the Elbe, not the Rhine.

And there's tons of other turning points.

Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 12:35 on May 26, 2018

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Mans posted:

How do you know this?


How do you know this?

Drusus was actually a good general and politician.

Tiberius had to be transferred from Germania to crush the Illyrian revolt, leaving Germania in the hands of Varus, who hosed the dog and got his legions massacred. If Drusus lives, then either him or Tiberius is left in charge of Germania while the other is sent off to fight in Illyria, and neither of them are dumb enough to fall into that ambush.

Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 04:43 on May 27, 2018

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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Mans posted:

The dang empire lasted for four extra centuries but i'm sure some three dudes 300 years earlier being emperors would make a dramatic change to stop the Franks from wanting to cross the Rhine.

The biggest problem with the Roman Empire was it's unstable succession, leading to constant escalating civil wars. That problem can be traced to the very beginning of the Empire, with every capable successor of Augustus and then Tiberius dying young, some to chance and others to intrigue.

Obviously, if the empire's first century has capable men, of the same dynasty, inheriting the throne peacefully, that sets the Empire on a more stable foundation.

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