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Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Enjoy posted:

Someone help me stop playing these bad games

I keep conquering the world basically and it's like "oh wow it was different that time" except it wasn't really

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Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

BBJoey posted:

Why does "EU3 complete", in 2015, still exist, as a thing?

There's gotta be a long tail of people still buying that stuff, I guess? I know your point is that EU3 complete is missing two expacks, but really EU4 is just strictly better than EU3 so people shouldn't be playing it anyway. It's a little frustrating to see so much junk on the Paradox sale page, is my point, because it's sad that people would get suckered into buying Sengoku or Supreme Ruler at any price.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

The Mantis posted:

What is the EU IV EXTREME EDITION?

Adds some DLC packs - mainly cosmetic but also some new events for Muslims. I don't think it's important by any means.

e: It's actually cheaper to buy the base game and pick up the Extreme Edition upgrade. Whoops!

Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at Oct 2, 2015 around 06:22

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

DrSunshine posted:

Is EUIV's latest DLC included in the current sale, or do I have to purchase it separately from the EUIV pack?

The "Europa Universalis IV Collection" is missing the three most recent expansions: Art of War, El Dorado, and Common Sense.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

DrSunshine posted:

Thanks! That's what I needed to know. I'll have to wait for the next sale then, even if EUIV wasn't my favorite game when I tried the demo.

Well, the DLC in that collection isn't anything spectacular. Why not pick up the base game and Art of War for $16? 75% off both is pretty good.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Groogy posted:

You mean the Cave Paintings you can see on museums? Ugh not that interesting, I mean I get the point that it proves some kind of cognitional ability of the painters but not that impressive.
If you want something actually interesting and that is the path of the future its either D(if the devs stopped being paranoid) or Ruby

Just try to write a game in Ruby, I double dare you

(Yes, it could be done, but you would get nothing out of using Ruby except lousy performance.)

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

We're never getting a good 21st century mapgame because so many of the countries you might play are awful. I blame society, personally.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Suffice it to say that with current technology, having "good AI" for any game with the complexity of EU4 is impossible. I don't care how much data you have, you can't get AIs to behave like players all the time.

Oh hey, Wiz beat me to it

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Rebellion didn't have any cool stuff, it was incredibly dry and boring and the worst use of a license ever

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Elias_Maluco posted:

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that a game is a self-contained set of rules through which the player interacts with other players or things or the game itself. It makes sense to me and applies to every game I can think of.

Why are we discussing this again

Because no one here has read Wittgenstein

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

If any of you haven't done Paradox's board game poll, here it is: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VZKLL2N

I hope you remember to mention that Paradox should make a Cold War board game.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Durendal posted:

If you want a Cold War board game, play Twilight Struggle. It's everything you could ask for out of a game based on that theme.

Twilight Struggle is my favorite game right now, it's an amazing design. I'd really like to see Paradox take on the period too, though. Compared to other historical eras I think there is a lot of room for Paradox to do something really interesting.

unwantedplatypus posted:

Stellar is as a board game

Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at Nov 9, 2015 around 05:24

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Oberleutnant posted:

jesus fucing christ this looks like it takes longer to play than warhams or battletech.

4X boardgames are a bad idea. You can have like 2 X's before the game gets too goddamn complicated for a tabletop.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

As far as we know, any FTL travel is pretty much fantasy, not sf. If so, then colonizing the stars will be a slow, plodding affair and communication will be lightspeed only. Would make for a boring game though, unless Vernor Vinge directed it.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Does Total War have realistic communication speed? I've always wondered if that could be implemented in a fun way in Paradox games, with local NPCs making some of the decisions for your farflung provinces and armies.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

I can hardly imagine V2 without the event spam!

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

PleasingFungus posted:

my favorite ck2 combat story is when someone figured out that having extremely low (<=4?) martial was better than everything but extremely high martial. at low enough martial skill, only four tactics would activate (vs the ~10-20 normally available?), one of which was a 'charge' tactic. at the time, the charge tactics were so much stronger than all the others (depending on army composition?) that even though it was a lovely charge tactic, it triggering so much more often was a huge combat advantage over higher martial leaders

But the computer got to have a lot of fun playing it

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

I bought 18 CK2 DLCs in the last big sale and shamefully haven't played it a bit. Maybe with the new patch and Conclave that will change?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Darkrenown posted:

You can day1 genocide purge your own homeworld.

I really hope it is possible to have a couple sentient species evolving on one world.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Demiurge4 posted:

I wanna see a cold war start between post-WW3 Earth and Communist Mars.

I still wonder why intra-system combat would make any sense in a world with FTL travel. You could just warp over to Mars and drop your hyper-nukes?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

So, Vicky 2 had those world newspapers that you didn't read for very long. Does anyone remember other games that did the dynamic news story thing in a compelling way? I remember the newspapers in SimCity 2000 were pretty decent at telling you stuff in an entertaining way, even if there wasn't a lot of variety in the templates. Any others?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Barnaby Barnacle posted:

Yeah, Imperialism would have a newspaper show up at the start of every turn, which was a season. A strategy game with the same basic theme as Victoria, in fact, though in a more board game-like style and with a random world generator. Here's the Good Old Games store page for it. Has a screenshot featuring the paper; bold headlines are relevant to actual game events (in GOG's screenshot, those are what appear at the start of the game), the other stories are just fluff.

I really have to play Imperialism. I see it mentioned so often in here and it looks like it would be perfect for me (except for the interface, but I play Paradox games). I wish Paradox had managed to incorporate random events and decisions into the newspapers, it would have made the world a lot more interesting to pay attention to.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

If PDS is willing to make simulation and interaction a little less complex, they could easily put stuff like Stellaris on tablets. And new IPs made for mobile and consoles could use the platform even better. So even though the PC games will all be cancelled forever, there's a bright spot.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

I mean you could sort of play as a shadow cabinet, making theoretical policies that won't get enacted? I'm not sure how that's a game, unfortunately.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

What's the general feeling about Cossacks, worth it for $15? Looks like a fun set of features, nothing amazing, and I guess estates were a really polarizing addition?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Well Imperialism II is very interesting. Is it simplified at all over the first game?

Some random impressions from playing the tutorial (a couple hours long!) The interface is kind of hard to use and certainly not too great at presenting key information. But it was released 17 years ago. I'm glad the battles can be ignored, poo poo is complicated enough already. Trade and production looks like it will take a long time to really get the hang of, and I can't imagine the AI adviser is all that bright. The approach to units and provinces is clever. Basically each province (you might have 5-8 provinces to start) has one city and a bunch of hexes that can be improved. You can move civilians around the provinces building roads and farms and such (you need to hook up every production hex with suitable transport) but military units move by the province and occupy the whole thing at once, so there's not any fiddly maneuvering like Civ has. This looks to me like there will be some room for maneuver but not that much since fronts aren't effectively very wide. Glad to see that the tactical combat is optional; honestly it kind of seems out of place in this title. Trade, consumption, and production are very complex and fiddly, which will take a lot of getting used to. I'm not sure I like how you have to agree to offers to buy stuff -- couldn't it be streamlined by saying which countries you prefer to buy goods from?

There's a ton of complexity I haven't scratched yet, like the tech and the custom game options and the options to make things more challenging (realistic?) I think I can safely already that say this game is pretty cool and definitely of interest to the thread. Holding out for Paradox to make a spiritual successor. poo poo, a board game adaptation would work great too.

e: And you can't say no to the title page of the Imperialism I manual:

Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2016 around 22:58

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Well, Poland allowing it would make sense, since it's a win for them no matter how it plays out.



Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Morholt posted:

I like that it's just simple enough that you can reasonably micromanage everything by yourself, and it has enough granularity that every decision becomes important. The game really starts to shine on Normal difficulty and above, since you have more scarcity leading to more interesting decisions each turn.

It's really easy to screw yourself over though. I'd suggest just starting over a few times or looking up a guide until you can reliably get positive income and enough food to feed your workers on normal difficulty, that way you learn to avoid the most common death-spirals.

Yeah I'm on my first real game on Easy (after restarting due to a food death spiral) and it's quite competitive even with all the advantages I'm getting. I think I have to unlearn a lot of my instincts from Civilization, like using my civilian units to build as much poo poo as possible. Very 90s game, in that it provides a bunch of in-game help but you can still shoot yourself in the foot completely.

I am coming to appreciate the need for careful management of critical, scarce resources (early on, lumber and cast iron) and just how fast you need to start loving up the natives. It's a pretty grim game from their perspective -- it's 100% likely that they will be conquered or absorbed "peacefully".

Overall I think the game (Imperialism II) is very much worth playing, if anyone is looking for a 4X with more than a little resemblance to EU and Vicky.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Dibujante posted:

Oh man hell yes, Imperialism II is amazing. It's one of those games that nails its intended thesis really well. All the mechanics come together to produce a really brilliant exploration / conquest / colonization of the new world game and put it into a context of European competition. There should be an Imperialism III ;_;

I really think an indie dev should try their hand at it. Ubisoft has the rights currently but you could just call it something legally safe. Great game.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

BadOptics posted:

EUIV just went on sale for 75% on Steam; should I get the "Extreme" edition or the collection with a crap ton of DLC?

The Extreme Edition is fine, doesn't add anything major but it's only $1.25 extra. The "Europa Universalis IV Collection (Sept 2014)", on the other hand, is $15 more than the base game and contains three major DLCs: Conquest of Paradise (pretty good if you like random new worlds), Res Publica (meh), and Wealth of Nations (also meh). It also includes a bunch of music and unit packs which are nice but not important at all. I do not think this is a great way to get into the game, unless you want to be a completionist from the start.

So I would say get the base game or the Extreme Edition, then get Art of War, and optionally Common Sense, El Dorado, and/or Conquest of Paradise to round things out. You definitely can have a good time without a lot of the DLC.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Is there any reason why the Mac version of Vicky 2 isn't available on Steam?

No good reason, but it looks to me like it's licensed to Virtual Programming which is probably the legal reason why it's on the App Store rather than Steam. Current generation Mac and Linux ports are now done in-house which is a much better situation for players.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Would there be any interest in a mod that lets you play past 1821, adding some more techs and late-game mechanics? I'm not sure if anyone would play it given that Extended Timeline exists (it is a total mess) but I might play with it a little anyway.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Alikchi posted:

I'd be interested if you can figure out a way to represent 1848 etc that doesn't suck.

Also industrialization

It's silly but I've got an urge and the free time. I'll try and post something in a week or so.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

I think if you're wringing your hands over it just choose the 8 most interesting countries to play. The UNSC permanent members (France does a lot of African operations), Japan, Brazil, South Africa? Maybe a bit too much focus on regional powers that way.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Was CK2 actually lovely in the beginning? I remember it being pretty silly fun.

edit: My biggest Stellaris disappointment is how little they did with the cool leader heads -- you hardly need diplomacy at all.

Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at May 12, 2016 around 06:42

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

There's so many factors at play in eu4 that matter and they are all laid out to display in the combat screen if you pause and mouseover everything. They're technically inferior but is the tech they are behind in important? Falling behind on a tech that boosts supply limit is different from falling behind on a tech that gives tactics. You may have a general vs no general but if it's a 2 fire 1 maneuver general in the 1500s then it doesn't matter. You may have more numbers but their army composition could be better than yours. And again the numbers are all in the combat screen and their discipline and cavalry combat bonus could be higher than yours, you may enter battle with full morale but their max morale is higher than yours etc etc. Eu4 combat is a solved problem and also transparent, rng plays a factor but really not that much. But by all means just throw your hands in the air and give up

There are over a dozen factors that can all swing a battle, it's an obtuse combat system. The kind of thing you were complaining about in Stellaris an hour ago.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

I'm not trying to e-burn you, I just think the combat in both EU4 and Stellaris can be pretty confusing to anyone. EU4 does present a ridiculous amount of data in the ledger and in the combat tooltips; with enough careful reading of forum posts and wiki pages you can figure out what it all does and how you can optimize your armies. Stellaris has a lot of complexity that's inaccessible to any of us right now, but it'll probably become clearer over the next couple patches. In both cases there's a lot to get frustrated with, I think.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Imperialism was cool but video games have come a long way in 20 years. There's so much darn busy-work that could be automated, and so many ways to shoot your whole nation in the foot.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

DrSunshine posted:

What's Paradox's ticker? I can't seem to find its IPO listing on my brokerage.

PDX on the Stockholm exchange, looks like

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Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004
Generic poster who whines about the mods to get attention.


Grimey Drawer

Lustful Man Hugs posted:

What do the squares and arrows represent?

The three-arrows are presumably social democracy (moderate and extreme social democrats?). In the 1932 Wiemar Republic election the social democrats used this sort of thing:

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