|
(I'll probably accept, I think I need a TE)
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:20 |
|
|
And/or a D that tends not to get negative points.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:It's got a two week delay. two week delay?? i would like a rb before sunday lol i am starting a justin forsett right now and its a terrifying prospect
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
got some chores tonight posted:its now a delayed trade over two weeks since you didnt accept the original trade before teh game last night lol And I gave you a RB!!!
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:47
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:(I'll probably accept, I think I need a TE) on the one hand, i hope jordan reed retires because six concussions in six years is terrifying; on the other hand, there are literally no streamable tes and trading for a mediocre te would be a heartbreaking experience
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:47
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:hey genuinely ecco, i know i give you a lot of poo poo in general but i think you put together a creative and well balanced game here. thanks for running it and pouring on the flavor. 90% of the poop people give me washes off like tears in the rain, but every compliment I hear goes straight to the vault. thank you. If you two could take your tradechat to discord or the discussion thread I'd appreciate it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:47
|
|
|
I'm not especially proud of this win but hey, I'll take what I can get! Was very busy the last few weeks and it's hard to put in a good Mafia performance after twelve hour work days. This was a game where night action wise everything went perfectly for us. If a lot of little things had gone differently it would be very different. If one of the doctors had gotten a successful protection, if one of the doctors had claimed they failed to protect one of Max's victims, if anyone had noticed that Max appeared to be "burned out by magic" after two nights of people burning to death, if anyone had assumed or been worried about a four-scum team, if anyone had targeted me on night 2, or if anyone had seriously questioned why the scum jailer was killing someone, if town had actually gotten the votes together to vote me day 2... any of these could have swung the game against us so we got very lucky that they didn't happen. As town it's really important to have due diligence and play to the worst case scenario. It's a mistake to confirm anyone as town without a really iron reason to do so and even then you should always be skeptical. Instead people made big assumptions about the setup and then used those assumptions to make bigger assumptions about what scum would and wouldn't do. I can't blame anyone for thinking there was a serial killer considering all the kills but that assumption should have been put to question when the two kills stopped. And instead it was dismissed as "scum would play it safe and jail the SK instead of killing them." I was flat worried that by jailing Hats and killing Bird we would be tipping our hand by showing the "scum" and "SK" were working together to lock down and take out the doctor, but nobody stopped to ask why a hypothetical SK would have killed Birdstrike who was basically cleared of being the jailer. I'll say this too: I thought I was playing horribly and my "claim I jailed myself" gambit was my last throw of the dice before I got voted out on day 3. The utter strength of my clear was astounding, it let me get away with blatantly lurking. I almost never mentioned my buddies even when they were the subject of posts I was quoting, I don't think I ever gave a single reason for my suspicions. I said several times I had no grasp on what was happening in the game. On day 3 in a tied vote situation I voted Hats over scum AS and had to immediately switch back to maintain my "I'll vote for anybody" position. Hell, I was unclaimed all game, nobody every bothered to ask me what role I might have been blocked with. So I was ~very~ surprised that on a lylo day Hats didn't even wait for me to post before putting someone else at -1. Overall I had a good time this game, even if I didn't put on much of a show here. The setup was great and I really liked my role of jailer/watcher, it's a great variant on a standard Mafia role. Very difficult to claim since my flavor was so obviously scummy that I never would have been able to claim jailer, and claiming watcher would have been a challenge by virtue of the people I watched getting jailed. The idea of scum getting kills past a bunch of doctors and bodyguards is a cool one, I felt the two factions were really balanced overall.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:48
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:And I gave you a RB!!! no, we're just doing the charles for wilson part before sunday (so you can get a qb and i get a rb) and then ill give you the ride-on williams next week cuz we cant trade him this week
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:48
|
|
|
i thought the mason-cop stuff was good im not really sure what the other aspect of game design ppl are commenting yet cuz im still tilting at towns play i underlined my compliment because im probably just going to say eccogame when i read the setup but i want to make sure ecco realises i like (a part of) her setup and im just tilting at how bad town played
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:50
|
|
|
got some chores tonight posted:i thought the mason stuff was a good twist im not really sure what the other aspect of game design ppl are commenting yet cuz im still tilting at towns play Max had two unblockable kills he could use in addition to our regular kill. So he was responsible for both fire deaths and then his own death on night 2.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
Why did you investigate Max over grandicap? That would have been such a hilarious D2 and I'm sad it didn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Why did you investigate Max over grandicap? i figured grandi was town for reasons and if he wasnt i was gonna die anyway since i sent my cop pm back after evry1 called me a scum piece of poo poo for not doing it i investigated max cuz i thought he was scum
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
i think naive cop - town; cop - godfather is cool i think godfather jugg that costs things is cool not sure i agree w/ it being a second kill and not sure i agree with it being in the same setup as the duo masonry thing cuz i find it doubtful the losing godfathrr cost will ever be relevant in that setup
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:01
|
|
|
Actually I guess this is a post-mortem question for Ecco since I still don't understand it. She told me via PM after I died that Max was indeed the Godfather but ~~something happened~~ that ended up with me getting the correct result. I'm not seeing it in any of the N1 actions.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:12
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Actually I guess this is a post-mortem question for Ecco since I still don't understand it. The first time Max used his unblockable kill, he lost godfather status. The second time he used it, he died.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:13
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:The first time Max used his unblockable kill, he lost godfather status. The second time he used it, he died. Ah, poo poo. Tricky. Why did you guys decide to burn it so early?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
Apologies if I missed it on the last page or something 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:16
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Ah, poo poo. Tricky. Why not? It's a second kill that nobody can stop. Plus after the way day 1 went there was a fair chance Max was up for vote anyway, and unstoppable kills don't do anything if you're dead.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:19
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Ah, poo poo. Tricky. I'm assuming it's because I was right about Max/PMom, so they wanted to get rid of me quickly since I surely wouldn't let that go. Plus they probably didn't want you to have a chance at identifying Max as scum through the masonry.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:19
|
|
|
EccoRaven posted:The Nuns of Nolaisko so, i think this setup succeeds on a couple levels. at its face the scumteam has much weaker roles in comparison to their town counterparts, but with greater rewards for effective usage and an enhanced action economy. it's certainly a fragile setup, i suppose. i probably would have distributed power a little more evenly across the scumteam rather than concentrating most of it with max, but then that dilutes the risk/reward mechanic of the extra kills. the extra kills themselves are an interesting mechanic here, we're all so locked into the idea of the stand mafia action economy that it leads us to a certain amount of unhealthy certainly regarding the way things are 'supposed to be.' the extra kills and godfather's self-implosion changes the meta-play of the game based on these assumptions, and i think that's a neat effect. the town side of the equation is a little less inspired, but it's a smart distribution of power. i experimented with a lurker vig in my last game and i have to admit that ecco's implementation is more elegant. i mean the kill success percentage is nonsense and should not be in the game, but that aside it is clever. the mason sets are more interesting to me as a whole rather than individually, the implication of 4 masons in the game creates a certain amount of passive pressure on one of them being scum, almost a soft counter to the godfather ability. i don't know, i liked it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:19
|
|
|
Dumb question: Does godfather (without these shenanigans) investigate as scum to a naive cop?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Dumb question:
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:23
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:No. A naive cop gets town on everybody. Oh right. It's not an insane cop. ...would an insane cop get a scum result? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:24
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:so, i think this setup succeeds on a couple levels. at its face the scumteam has much weaker roles in comparison to their town counterparts, but with greater rewards for effective usage and an enhanced action economy. it's certainly a fragile setup, i suppose. i probably would have distributed power a little more evenly across the scumteam rather than concentrating most of it with max, but then that dilutes the risk/reward mechanic of the extra kills. the extra kills themselves are an interesting mechanic here, we're all so locked into the idea of the stand mafia action economy that it leads us to a certain amount of unhealthy certainly regarding the way things are 'supposed to be.' the extra kills and godfather's self-implosion changes the meta-play of the game based on these assumptions, and i think that's a neat effect. I really like the concentrating powers on one player, it really changes the dynamics of the scum team in an interesting way and forces interesting decisions that are different from a typical mafia setup~
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:24
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Oh right. It's not an insane cop. I would think yes, the cop would get results as if the godfather were a town player, so they would get a SCUM result.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:26
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:I really like the concentrating powers on one player, it really changes the dynamics of the scum team in an interesting way and forces interesting decisions that are different from a typical mafia setup~ i think it creates a great effect when it succeeds, like it did here, but it does mean the setup can be more easily broken if that player is eliminated early. to a lesser extent i might argue that it diminishes the agency of the scumteam individually but i feel like that's not really how we play mafia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:I would think yes, the cop would get results as if the godfather were a town player, so they would get a SCUM result. Everything about this leads to comedy options. I dig.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:i feel like that's not really how we play mafia. What do you mean by that?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:29
|
|
|
Also, dongs, what did you think about your role PM after I flipped sane cop and Max claimed the masonry?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:30
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:i think it creates a great effect when it succeeds, like it did here, but it does mean the setup can be more easily broken if that player is eliminated early. to a lesser extent i might argue that it diminishes the agency of the scumteam individually but i feel like that's not really how we play mafia. Well, that's one of the interesting and unusual decisions, right? If the power role is in danger early, like Max was here, the other scum players have to choose between exposing themselves to protect him or jettisoning their big gun. Scum are usually going to be able to stop a dunk on someone day 1, it just depends on how much they want to invest.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:30
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Well, that's one of the interesting and unusual decisions, right? If the power role is in danger early, like Max was here, the other scum players have to choose between exposing themselves to protect him or jettisoning their big gun. Scum are usually going to be able to stop a dunk on someone day 1, it just depends on how much they want to invest. Yeah, I think if AS or Pmom has Max's role, then PMom goes ahead and votes Max on D1. Maybe Max still doesn't get lynched, but at least PMom doesn't look nearly as scummy. And I'm still seriously on tilt at how nobody looked at the D1 vote after Max flipped scum.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:32
|
|
|
Somberbrero posted:i think it creates a great effect when it succeeds, like it did here, but it does mean the setup can be more easily broken if that player is eliminated early. to a lesser extent i might argue that it diminishes the agency of the scumteam individually but i feel like that's not really how we play mafia. The issue with spreading out power evenly among the scum team is you create a game where the scum team is balanced like an engine and falls apart when you lose one of its components. For example any team with a godfather, roleblocker and rolecop is permanently out of a night action no matter who they lose, since a dead godfather forces one of the other two players to forfeit their action. Our team would have been hurt if Max had gotten voted out day 1, but we would have still had my jail ability and still had a nightkill. Similarly we may have been in trouble if I had been voted out on night 2, but we still would have had one of Max's unblockable kills to take out a key protected player if needed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:33
|
|
|
TMMadman posted:Yeah, I think if AS or Pmom has Max's role, then PMom goes ahead and votes Max on D1. Maybe Max still doesn't get lynched, but at least PMom doesn't look nearly as scummy. My entire case on Tobbs Gnawed was that he was pushing Max for being a good player, a subtle defense of Max that I got away with because I never outright talked about Max or stated his name.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:36
|
|
|
The answer there is that you give your scumteam a breadth of tactical options to let them choose how to best play their game. like in snowbound i thought it was cool how i gave you three different killing powers but then you got dunked d1. what i should have done was spread some of that kill power to capps and some of his power to you to create a less brittle scumteam that could take a hit and still have options.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:42
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Well, that's one of the interesting and unusual decisions, right? If the power role is in danger early, like Max was here, the other scum players have to choose between exposing themselves to protect him or jettisoning their big gun. Scum are usually going to be able to stop a dunk on someone day 1, it just depends on how much they want to invest. well yes, it was an interesting decision and it played out well here. i don't think it would ever make sense to bus max in this game if that's what you are saying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:45
|
|
|
Busing in general is a bad strategy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:47
|
|
|
I will say that this game is a lot more balanced than the last Ecco game, and I appreciate the people who know more than I do weighing in on that. Honest question to Ecco: had you built this setup a year ago, or was it the flavor? I think the personal story is super cool, and you always go all out on the flavor, which is a big part of why I've been digging your games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:49
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:Busing in general is a bad strategy. Even to contribute new ideas to a wave of momentum?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:49
|
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:What do you mean by that? Taking a stab at it: We don't really care about the agency of individual members of the scumteam - you're kind of an rear end in a top hat as scum if you play to maximise your own chance of living to the detriment of your team's chance of victory. Like, if you play Pandemic or similar games, it can easily turn into everybody following the lead of the most vocal player at the table because everybody has full information and the same agenda.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 21:20 |
|
|
Propaganda Machine posted:Honest question to Ecco: had you built this setup a year ago, or was it the flavor? I think the personal story is super cool, and you always go all out on the flavor, which is a big part of why I've been digging your games. the setup was made a year ago, though it went through some modification over the past year (it started as 15, got reduced to 13 [without me remembering what I changed to make it smaller], and then got pumped back up to 15 for this game.) Things like the assassin kill were in the initial setup but got tweaked when I wrote role PMs (part of the eternal process of writing them is also doing balancing tests in my head as I do so). I wrote a thing in the discord a last week about my process, let me see if I can pull it up. e: lol nah that's not happening sorry! e2: actually I found it, neat. though it's more about writing role PMs than setup creation. quote:rebecco - Last Monday at 12:35 PM EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Oct 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2016 06:54
|
|