Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

I know I am the minority here but to me CR response read really genuine. He really believed what he wrote and the emotion is raw there. He believes he is fighting the good fight and that he has a decent chance (or had a decent chance) of finishing the game aslong as the bloody journalists and DS do not gently caress it up.

That does not mean that bad management or HR or PR does not happen. Probably does to some extent but just anonymous sources are pretty lovely.

The Escapist and Forbes articles will certainly hurt. Might even be the beginning of the end. But it still feels like a hit to me. They could have pulled it off with the endless flow of money from the spergs. If not for that dastardly DS :orks:

SirTagz fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Oct 1, 2015

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 20:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 20:44

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

G0RF posted:

TenTonHammer weighs in.

Good article. I find most of the talk in this thread a stupid circlejerk just like what is happening on RSI forums and Reddit - just in the opposite corner. The TenTonHammer article was pretty fresh in that regard

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 09:27

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

G0RF posted:

The crazy thing is-- if Kotaku and others were sitting on this story of insanely toxic management (racism? sexism? ageism? wrongful terminations?) and financial waste-- submitted to them by past or present CIG employees-- and yet REPORTED NOTHING, despite it being one of the biggest video game and crowdfunding news stories in a decade...

then this really IS a question of ethics in journalism. (Unironically.)

Or.. you know.. the 2-3 people with agenda spammed their emails to every outlet, including DS and the Escapist but most of the outlets saw the letters as unreliable and uncorfirmed anonymous spam which cannot be reported.

I am not saying there is no basis for the accusations.. but the fact that several outlets have received is in no way more damning than only DS receiving the letters.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 12:41

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

AP posted:

According to The Escapist, they have 7 identified individuals (identified to the editor, the writer and their legal department) previous or current CIG employees, plus 2 anonymous sources that they didn't quote from.

So it is possible that seven previous & current CIG employees are spinning things to make the Star Citizen development look terrible. I'd say unlikely but certainly possible.

Or the Escapist is lying, unlikely but again possible.

The reply from Chris Roberts that makes the whole situation look like a complete trainwreck might also be fake, that's very unlikely though.

Fair enough.

For me the only thing that matters though is their remaining funds and burn-rate. I don't give a gently caress how the people are treated - if they do not like it, they can leave and stay in a less stressful environment. If there is enough money CIG can just keep hiring more skeletor-fodder and release the game eventually. And on the other hand - if CIG is out of money it does not matter if CR is the sweetest most reasonable manager ever - the project will crash and burn.

gently caress all this drama. Just show me the money.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 13:33

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

AP posted:

Well that last comment if pretty much bullshit. It would make sense if Joshua was FBI and stormed CIG Austin office or something to get to the records but they just posted an article. How does that stop an audit or a cleanup or whatever. Wtf people are just loving up their own narratives on both sides.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 13:57

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Agrajag posted:

Sadly the concept of budgeting and finances is anathema to the types that willingly part with large sums of cash based on flimsy business plans (or lack thereof) and purchasing things based on a flimsy promise of delivering "something" that is completely divorced from the reality.

I work in property development and looking at the whole kickstarter model of funding and the hilariously bad "business plans" that can be summed up in a short youtube video and a few .jpgs of sketches is hilarious.

Like gently caress man the monthly project updates on a loving ongoing project I deal with is a gigantic booklet that is delivered to us from the construction company in which contains a line by line breakdown of material costs, cost overruns, projected budgets and a tally month over month over various item etc. When I look at how kickstarter/crowdfunding models, and how they do things with proposals and updates, I just laugh at the amount of foolish people drinking up the kool-aid who think they are playing VC with their own cash.

Hey here's a clue: buying something before it is made in which you have no control of overseeing or redressing the quality of, is dumb.

Take this for an example on how the real world works: if something isn't built to specifications, after one of our construction engineers go onsite to look it over, we withold funds till that poo poo is fixed because that is how you get things done. Now look at kickstarter/crowdfunding, yeah. It's no big surprise when you basically hand all the cash over to a group on the promise to deliver something and the ultimately they don't, or deliver something that falls far short of what was promised.

I am looking forward to the cook at Burger King telling me how he can give a precise estimate plus minus 5 seconds on how long it takes him to cook a burger and how that makes him an expert on evaluating software project overruns

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 14:35

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I bet he just assumed that because his own people can turn around a ship sale in three hours that other entities would work the same way. And what the gently caress was he doing spending 8 hours writing that pile of poo poo?

Stalking on twitter for good quotes of-course

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 14:38

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

AP posted:

I keep returning to December 2013, the DFM had been promised before the end of the year and Chris Roberts left it until the 16th of December to tell everyone, actually no, not happening. It didn't ship to everyone for another 8 months though a few people got it 2 months earlier.

I've said this several times before, he knew weeks/months in advance it wasn't going to ship and he kept that secret so he didn't gently caress up the "end of LTI" (lol) sale in November 2013.

The dude is flat out dishonest and I don't see why anyone believes anything he says at this point. Now it's possible that someone dishonest can release an expensive game even with a drama queen wife being nasty to everyone, it's still possible to do that, they just need a lot of money and time. Star Citizen backers appear willing to give him as much time as he wants, but if it's true they are running out of money, they are completely hosed.

I just had an overly emotional reaction to a guy who equates printing out reports from construction cost estimate software to giving estimates about developing complex software components.

CR's problem is that he keeps moving his own goalposts. That makes him a lovely manager and a tease but I do not believe he is deliberately dishonest at the time he gives these hosed up estimates.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 15:04

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Randarkman posted:

No you didn't, you compared project management to flipping burgers.

Actually I compared pressing a button and printing out a 'gigantic booklet containing a line by line breakdown of material costs, cost overruns, projected budgets and a tally month over month over various item etc' to flipping a burger

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 15:13

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

thatguy posted:

What's the best thing for a person to yell out during CitCon?

show us the money

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 20:17

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

No-one has said here yet that 'all publicity is good publicity'. I wonder if crowdfunding is an exception to the rule.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 20:23

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Octopode posted:

They could be entirely legitimate sources, completely verified, all providing the same story. Without any attempt to find facts that disagree with that story, the only thing you can say for certain is that they all gave reports of the same story. It doesn't actually make that story true.

Lots of independent, verified people, for instance, gave similar facts and stories about Saddam Hussein's WMD programs following the first Gulf War. Those stories turned out not to be true. The same might be true here, but no one can say for certain or not without at least attempting to prove the story, as presented by one side only, wrong.

Comparing Sandy to WMD-s is cute, but I think you guys keep missing the crucial point. It does not matter if the story is true or not. The only thing that matters is the money. Do they have it or not.

Even if the Sandy is literally the devil and CR just fucks up everyone's work and does nothing good for the project - (which i am sure is not true) given enough money, we would still get SC and this poo poo with the Escapist is just a fart in the wind which will pass.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2015 20:50

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Agrajag posted:

not a cult

this is getting old

# ¿ Oct 3, 2015 20:56

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Agrajag posted:

Don't you even dare! Baghdad Bob was the only good thing to come out of that war you rear end in a top hat!

not a cult

Every time you guys write 'not a cult' i hear 'HELMET!! HELMET!! HELMET!!'

loving hive mind

# ¿ Oct 3, 2015 21:07

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

I am still 8 pages behind and not sure if this has been posted..

But isn't it possible CIG is just buyng time with this lawsuit? These things take time right? And while the lwasuit is in progress, from the public standpoint, CIG is still clean. If they get enough time to push out SQ42 or some other major component, that might be enough to save the project from CIG standpoint. Legalfees be damned.. that's just backers' money, spent on a tactical move.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2015 19:26

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Noxville posted:

I'm pretty sure they don't have a plan, they're just hammering on their keyboards in anger at the moment.

It is hard to believe they are that stupid. Sigh.. but everything so far seems to point that way...

# ¿ Oct 4, 2015 19:45

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

this thread has reached peak spam. and most of it isn't even eonwe

# ¿ Oct 4, 2015 20:24

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Octopode posted:

If there's one thing people posting in this thread excel at, it's respecting dissenting opinions.

lol

# ¿ Oct 4, 2015 23:52

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

AP posted:

Good to hear that the CIG letter is going through Legal before being posted.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 09:58

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Actually I believe there is plenty of money to be made from SC in case of a bailout. Cut the scope drastically, release it on consoles also, list it on Steam and buy pretty add-videos on nation wide channels and you get your average Joe's 60$. Sure they might not have played a space-sim before but make the videos cool and they will buy it (especially in case of a 10% sale coming bundled with unique electro skin hull decals or whatever the gently caress those are). New management can probably change the monetization model also somewhat.. away from the current dream.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 12:09

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Troll Bridgington posted:

Microsoft will buy CIG. Chris Roberts will step down to a creative consultant role. The game will be finished with a limited scope and released on the XBONE.

Evil publishers win again

As MS payed 2.5 billion for Minecraft.. I would not really be surprized

# ¿ Oct 6, 2015 09:28

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

kordansk posted:

Minecraft is a brand. SC is not.

lauresh posted:

Minecraft was an actual game that you could play

As I understand, SC mostly a brand and an idea.. not so much a game. CIG has made every effort to build the 'world'. I doubt very much MS payed 2.5 BILLION for the code of Minecraft. They payed for the brand and the userbase. And there certainly is a userbase in SC - even without the game. Also, they need not spend billions on it. Throw some pocket-change like another 100 mil at it, oust roberts and you are half way there. gently caress, 100-200 mill is just the marketing budget of some games.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2015 10:00

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Jesus loving Christ. Lay off Octopede already. You are worse than Reddit and their banning of topics. You just harass a person till he shuts up and leaves. And you all feel superior while doing it? All this while waving the flag how open you are to people of different values and ways of life. When the hive-mind kicks in you bunch are completely worthless for anything but spam and insults.

:barf:

This meltdown was brought to you free of charge for mocking pleasure. Hope you enjoyed it and post something original because of it

# ¿ Oct 6, 2015 17:38

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

Any bets that there will be at least one shout for a refund on the 10th?

# ¿ Oct 6, 2015 22:34

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

jaegerx posted:

Absolutely not. I bought bc3000ad back when it was on floppies. You helped me get my refund back from this debacle. I'd love one.

Was it ever on floppies? DS scammed me of my money when it came out but as I remember it was on a CD.

BTW Derek, I'd still love a refund. I'd be OK with 25 cents on a dollar - just buy me an avatar here.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2015 08:56

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

EminusSleepus posted:

most offices are not publicly funded

WTF does it matter that you payed them some money. It is privately held company. You pay your ISP for internet, Samsung or Apple for your new phone. I assume you consider them publicly funded as well?
Or you want to discuss spending in the government sector?

I cannot really find any angle from which your comment makes any sense at all

# ¿ Oct 8, 2015 15:08

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

AP posted:

Death of a Salesman
Too much to quote, well worth a read.

Yeah, good article. I cannot really see Chris letting Erin to take over though. Even if it is the best and only option.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2015 15:31

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

AP posted:

June 26 2015
poo poo really seemed to hit the fan in July around the time they decided to wind down Austin, bin Illfonic and Alex Mayberry/Travis Day bailed.

Good narrative. I always felt that not enough attention was payed to the drop of total employee numbers. Everyone just glassed over that with mutterings "contractors included" / "contractors excluded".
Maybe July was the point when CR actually felt that poo poo has hit the fan and did what he promised he would do if funding decreased? Cut the spending (a little)? Back then he had a bit more that 8 mil left.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 10:43

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

In a surprising turn of events - a video of the Star Citizen ship self-destruct deactivation procedure was posted in another thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BhHkvHcUfo

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 10:59

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

alphabettitouretti posted:

Maybe you're quoting from reddit or something but this was addressed many pages ago.

Provide a kettle and a source of water and employees can bring their own drat coffee. You're trying to build a complex game using crowdfunded money it's not unreasonable to cut back on things. Or if you do want to provide a little extra comfort they could have bought some very good machines for less or given every single person their own Aeropress, pour over or French press. Both options would have been cheaper.

Having a decent kitchen / -corner / lunch area is actually one thing I (and many people I know) evaluate in a place before going to work there. If the place had plastic chairs and a water kettle in a 3 sq m closet because 'we are saving money' then gently caress that poo poo. I will go and work at some other place which values its employees. I don't have to give a gently caress about the 'investors' as an employee. I just want to do my job and in the best possible environment.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 12:03

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

alphabettitouretti posted:

There's no middle ground between "20k espresso machine" and "cupboard with plastic chairs and a kettle".

You yourself suggested they should have provided a bloody kettle and be done with it. Idiots like you are the reason why financial statements are kept private (well that and all the fraud which is going on).

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 12:12

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

alphabettitouretti posted:

There's no middle ground between "20k espresso machine" and "cupboard with plastic chairs and a kettle".

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 12:13

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

alphabettitouretti posted:

There's no middle ground between "20k espresso machine" and "cupboard with plastic chairs and a kettle".

Yes, there is a middle ground. But you are latching on to a thing which is a very minor issue in the entire project management gently caress-up. The only reason this is even being talked about is that we do not have financial details on almost anything else (and even this is just a rumor). So the one thing which is brought out, keeps repeated and repeated and repeated. Honestly - if this 20K coffee machine is the worst waste going on at the company and the reason why it was brought out - I'd say people at CIG are doing a stellar job with managing the backers' money

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 12:22

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

WebDog posted:

How many bloody subsidiaries does CIG have?!?

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 12:45

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

alphabettitouretti posted:

The drink dispenser minigame feature was a good one

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 12:47

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

alphabettitouretti posted:

Only $20,000!

(Are you trying to make a point here? If so it has been missed. And are you digging through my post history? Bit weird tbh)

A little bit. Quoting sentences out of context when you have nothing else to say can make anyone look like an idiot. But anyways I will let this go. Send another zinger my way if you want but this poo poo is getting boring.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 13:41