|
Regalingualius posted:And meanwhile, there's the looming understanding in the background that their sacrifice is going to be worth less and less the more it's done. Someone posted about how the first Calm lasted hundreds of years, then got progressively shorter until Braska's didn't last for one. What kind of comfort is there in knowing that giving up their lives just means the Calm from whoever goes next is going to be even shorter than whatever they manage to give the people of Spira? I wonder why Yevon hasn't come up with some excuse as to why the Calms have been shrinking so much. You'd think that they'd be losing a lot more devotees when their big trump card is rapidly becoming pointless.
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
There's really not much preserved history. Spira's seen a TON of destruction. I think the Calm lengths are only mentioned in supplemental material, which is purely world building. I know I only saw it on the Wiki
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
It does get said somewhere in game that the Calms are getting shorter, I'm certain, but I forget where. Braska's Calm only lasted a few months, I believe. That's barely enough time to rebuild that lovely little village Sin wrecked early on, never mind actually do anything meaningful with.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 02:08
|
|
|
Geostomp posted:I wonder why Yevon hasn't come up with some excuse as to why the Calms have been shrinking so much. You'd think that they'd be losing a lot more devotees when their big trump card is rapidly becoming pointless. This is religion, and they're in a spiral of death. What's the alternative to Yevon after a thousand years of futility, including attempts by outside sources with machina and the Crusaders (before they became affiliated with Yevon)?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
The Calms are getting shorter because you aren't atoning hard enough, you godless heathens.  I wonder if eventually, if people kept beating Sin, it would get to the point where a Calm would last for an hour or something.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:The Calms are getting shorter because you aren't atoning hard enough, you godless heathens. Hell, can you imagine after the first time Sin was defeated? They didn't even know it would come back. Then 500 years later BOOM! Sin again. How did they even deal with that at the time?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 02:52
|
|
|
Hunter Noventa posted:Hell, can you imagine after the first time Sin was defeated? They didn't even know it would come back. Then 500 years later BOOM! Sin again. How did they even deal with that at the time? The first Calm was special in a lot of ways. They don't even call that one High Summoner.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 03:04
|
|
|
Hunter Noventa posted:Hell, can you imagine after the first time Sin was defeated? They didn't even know it would come back. Then 500 years later BOOM! Sin again. How did they even deal with that at the time? I imagine the same thing happened whenever Sin shows up normally: lots of death and property destruction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
Lots of crying and lots of drinking and lots of drunk crying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 04:12
|
|
|
Malachite_Dragon posted:Lots of crying and lots of drinking and lots of drunk crying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 04:35
|
|
|
AradoBalanga posted:In that order? It's the cycle of Spira.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 04:42
|
|
|
I'm not sure the "Calms started longer and are gradually becoming shorter" is canon in the game. From what little I've seen, the Calms usually last somewhere between a few months and a year. And that's about all there is to it. That being said, the concept would have contributed a lot to the whole "Spiral of Death" theme of the game. The Final Aeon becomes less and less effective at defeating Sin, but Summoners keep doing it because they can't think of any other solution.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 05:09
|
|
|
Geostomp posted:It's the cycle of Spira. It's the
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 05:23
|
|
|
Bale Fire posted:I'm not sure the "Calms started longer and are gradually becoming shorter" is canon in the game. I think it's from the Ultimania, which are generally treated as canon. It does make you wonder how old the Yevon religion is, though, given that would be 500 years without Sin during which time there would be no need to really worship Yevon.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 05:28
|
|
Bale Fire posted:I'm not sure the "Calms started longer and are gradually becoming shorter" is canon in the game. From what little I've seen, the Calms usually last somewhere between a few months and a year. And that's about all there is to it. In fairness, I think it was only mentioned in X's Ultimania as some background fluff.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 05:34
|
|
|
Calm's getting shorter makes sense in a sort of backwards way. All that praising Yevon receives likely makes him stronger, which makes the Sin cycles speed up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
Bufuman posted:Braska's pilgrimage might never have finished if they hadn't talked Jecht out of backtracking all the way to Besaid for another side quest that will pop up later. Oh, and I WOULD like to make a little note here of a thing that you have to backtrack to get. HAVE TO. All the way back at Macalania woods, after you see the cutscene leading up to and after the boss? BACKTRACK ALL THE WAY BACK TO loving BESAID RIGHT THEN AND THERE IF YOU ARE PLAYING THE HD REMAKE/INTERNATIONAL EDITION. If you don't? You can't loving power up Auron to his last Overdrive until you're strong enough to fight a Dark Aeon, Dark
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 06:07
|
|
|
GeneralYeti posted:Which was my favorite part of that game, where it acknowledges that we have these options but they won't work. It's surprisingly effective as a storytelling device. In Phantasy Star IV, the leader of the group, Alys, gets blasted with pure evil by the bad guy and they cast every single curative spell on her and nothing works. Really nice way to twist the knife and also show just how drat evil the bad guy was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 07:25
|
|
|
Can you backtrack to Besaid after getting to Guadosalam? I feel like I remember being prevented from going back after a certain point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 08:10
|
|
|
I kinda prefer that death not be a thing that is commonly happening enough to shrug off, rpgs that just say you get ko'd unless its your whole party have the right idea. I mean most jrpg battles are just too abstracted to the point where nothing recognizable is happening beyond everyone just shooting pretty cutscenes at each other and changing numbers around, violence is just sort of sterilized. Once death is also just a "status condition" label on characters it's harder to really feel it in the story even if you explain why you can't just magically undo it this time like every other time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 08:13
|
|
|
E: ^^^There are often believable enough reasons like Galuf shrugging off Holy, Flare and Meteor while already at 0 HP or Aeris being laid to rest underwater. Hobgoblin2099 posted:Can you backtrack to Besaid after getting to Guadosalam? I feel like I remember being prevented from going back after a certain point. I think this was discussed earlier and the Guado are initially all "They killed Seymour, get them!" until Auron glares at them and they wimp out. 
AlphaKretin fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Nov 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 08:13
|
|
|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:I think it's from the Ultimania, which are generally treated as canon. I dunno man, if the devs really thought that information was so important you'd think they'd actually put it in the game, not in some dumb supplementary artbook
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 10:34
|
|
|
It's almost as if they were focusing on making the game playable instead of aping Kojima's hours of cutscenes! E: "if it's not in the game and not explicitly told to me, it's not canon  " is kinduva bad way to play videogames
Malachite_Dragon fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Nov 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 10:44
|
|
|
Acne Rain posted:I kinda prefer that death not be a thing that is commonly happening enough to shrug off, rpgs that just say you get ko'd unless its your whole party have the right idea. This is one of the reasons I like FF Tactics. If someone goes down, you have to scramble to get them back up or they bleed out and bam, gone forever. It's a very neat take on an otherwise standard game mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 15:55
|
|
|
Looper posted:I dunno man, if the devs really thought that information was so important you'd think they'd actually put it in the game, not in some dumb supplementary artbook You would think this... but a friend of mine who reviewed all the FFXIII Games would say otherwise as a MASSIVE Chunk of the lore is in that and not the game. And before you ask, it makes them make even less sense than they already do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
Derek Barona posted:This is one of the reasons I like FF Tactics. If someone goes down, you have to scramble to get them back up or they bleed out and bam, gone forever. It's a very neat take on an otherwise standard game mechanic. Every time someone mentions FF Tactics, it makes me both want to play it again, and wish we'd get another game closer to the original.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 16:10
|
|
|
Malachite_Dragon posted:It's almost as if they were focusing on making the game playable instead of aping Kojima's hours of cutscenes! Lol calm down there buddy, sorry for insulting your favorite game
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 16:16
|
|
|
Looper posted:I dunno man, if the devs really thought that information was so important you'd think they'd actually put it in the game, not in some dumb supplementary artbook Tell that to Yoko Taro. (Seriously, do. I would have liked if half of the backstory of NIER was actually in it)
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 17:02
|
|
|
Kemix posted:Oh, and I WOULD like to make a little note here of a thing that you have to backtrack to get. HAVE TO. All the way back at Macalania woods, after you see the cutscene leading up to and after the boss? BACKTRACK ALL THE WAY BACK TO loving BESAID RIGHT THEN AND THERE IF YOU ARE PLAYING THE HD REMAKE/INTERNATIONAL EDITION. If you don't? You can't loving power up Auron to his last Overdrive until you're strong enough to fight a Dark Aeon, Dark if you have enough cash then that won't be an obstacle at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 18:50
|
|
|
Mans posted:if you have enough cash then that won't be an obstacle at all. This exact method is how I beat the bonus boss 
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2015 23:34
|
|
|
microtransactions
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
AriadneThread posted:microtransactions Yojimbo being meta-commentary on microtransactions is something that'd be pretty great. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 00:32
|
|
|
Looper posted:Lol calm down there buddy, sorry for insulting your favorite game He's not wrong though. It's fairly common for a writer to define more of their setting than is actually detailed in the story, simply for their own purposes of internal consistency. Not everything needs to be told to the player character.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 04:04
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:He's not wrong though. It's fairly common for a writer to define more of their setting than is actually detailed in the story, simply for their own purposes of internal consistency. Not everything needs to be told to the player character. There's a big difference between saying "the developers should put pertinent information in the game" and "developers need to create movie length cutscenes to explain every little thing to me". There's a bit of continuum there. But this line of discussion will probably get the thread closed. So, uh, FFX compares unfavorable in storytelling to Fury Road. That's a movie that knows how to tell background information implicitly. I don't figure that the HD Remaster smooth over some of the worst bits of writting?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:01
|
|
|
Seymour is a real stand-up guy. Letting Kinoc feel all important and like he's contributing. That's what best friends do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:He's not wrong though. It's fairly common for a writer to define more of their setting than is actually detailed in the story, simply for their own purposes of internal consistency. Not everything needs to be told to the player character. This would be more tenable if Spira were a more well-defined and constructed setting outside of the heavy-handed doom imagery. As (unfairly) maligned as X-2 often is, it does a decent job in this regard (while suffering the same problems in others) but that's saying too much
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2015 06:18
|
|
|
Episode LXXVII: Via My Corridors.jpg)  New Music: Path of Repentance (Recommended Listening!) .jpg) So remember how two of this champions of year's world underwater sports tournament and the deep sea diver were tossed into the Bevelle water dungeon? Don't worry about them for now. Instead, we'll be shifting gears to a nondescript series of gray corridors for the .jpg) For the sole time in the entirety of Final Fantasy X, Tidus will be taking a break as the overworld player avatar. Instead Yuna will be taking over duties for this dungeon. You may notice a teleporter looking pressure plate gizmo in the center of this chamber. It's nothing really to worry about. There's no gimmick to this dungeon beyond having Yuna take the lead and having the party split up. There is a teleporter Via Purifico is essentially laid out like a big oval with a line going through the center. There are open rooms connecting like this one in the center and all four cardinal directions. The exit is due north. .jpg) .jpg) While the Via Purifico is an incredibly mundane dungeon, it is not entirely without hazards. Palette swaps of evil eyes called Bat Eyes are out in force. This one is weak to fire and has higher stats than the ones back at Macalania. That's it. They've pretty much given up on anything beyond the token color palette switch and across the board number boosting on enemies at this point.   Extended families of rock armadillo guy, status effect lizards, and sentient jello scoops (Water Element Edition!) are also available to strike down heathens who have never touched their Sphere Grids. But for an experienced summoner this not even remotely a threat. .jpg) Especially, given the newest member of Yuna's aeon collection: .jpg) .jpg) .jpg)  TROOOOOOOOOOOOOGDOOOOOOOOOOR!! .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Pay no attention to the fact they gave us an aeon with a summoning animation explicitly showing it fly in from the sky while stuck in a dungeon that's supposed to be deep underground. .jpg) Yuna and Trogdor can easily just solo this entire dungeon as our newest in the long line of dragon buddies is extremely overpowered compared to anything the Via Purifico can throw at us. Which is a bit of an oversight on Yevon's part. But here we are. .jpg) Just a normal attack from Trogdor will result in a pimp slap so mighty it will overkill anyone foolish enough to step to him in a single blow. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) But why bugger with anything that pedestrian, when Trogdor can unleash its unique attack, Impulse, to just one-shot an entire field of enemies all at once for non-elemental damage. Your damage resists can suck it losers. That includes you jello cup guy. .jpg) If that's not enough for you, Trogdor also comes equipped with every elemental black magic spell in the game, including the third tier stuff we've yet to even see prior to this point (and Lulu is still a good couple of hours of leveling before hitting.) Just in case you really want to ruin a Flan's day something fierce with Thundaga. .jpg) All in all, Trogdor is PRETTY good and will be our top aeon for quite some time. Poor .jpg) That all said, it's a very very good idea to do a small amount of grinding and get all of Yuna's aeons packing an Overdrive on the back burner. Just in case... Plus, Yuna has been sitting out for two major areas without leveling. It's a good time to show her a bit of love. .jpg) .jpg) But enough about battling trash mobs and showing off our new toys. A gate in the central chamber is blocking the route directly north. So we'll have to make our way around the oval. It doesn't matter which direction. We'll head counter-clockwise to hit everything of mild interest in this dull dungeon as efficiently as possible. Reaching the eastern chamber we find Kimahri just kind of zoning out by himself. It was nice of Yevon not to toss him into the water dungeon. I cannot imagine that would go over well with a catman. .jpg)  “No, it's okay.”.jpg) .jpg) Well, that's Kimahri back in the party. I think that's even more of a hindrance than just having Yuna soloing the dungeon with her summons. We may as well get the rest of the gang while we're here. .jpg) Auron is the only mandatory party member we have to run into as he's hanging out in the northern chamber by the exit hallway. The first random battle we get into following his rejoining the party he will mutter “I hate this place...” I feel you, Auron. I feel you... .jpg) It's not required to track down Lulu or even Kimahri with we went around the corridors clockwise. Just heading out north from here will take us to the exit. No puzzles to solve or anything to escape. Like I said, that teleporter thing is just busy work to get an extra bit of loot. Lulu will stop being lazy and make her way out of the dungeon by herself if we just head on out without her. But eh... Let's not be rude. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) After all, she's just hanging out around the corner to the westernmost chamber. I know everyone just got sentenced to death by Yevon but could the rest of you at perhaps try to take your jobs seriously? Auron at least made his way to the only exit to wait for Yuna to get tossed into the dungeon. Lulu, what's your excuse to be staring into space next to a treasure chest? What's even in there? A White Magic Sphere? Like I'm going to let you learn White Magic. .jpg)  *shakes head* “It's okay. I know.”.jpg) And that's the whole party recovered. If you're curious about the bonus loot. There's a teleporter panel half buried in some rubble in an offshoot off the main oval-ish layout of Via Purifico we can have Yuna activate. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) There's another panel to an offshoot just north of the central room of the dungeon. These two panels activate those teleporter pressure switches. They have the same rotating activation crap the Bevelle Cloister of Trials panel had where you have to time it in the right direction. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Long story short: You have to line up the teleporters to take you north and then the north one will shoot Yuna through a locked gate to the Northwest. .jpg) .jpg) For taking the effort, Yuna picks up another Skill Sphere if you want more people to learn to Steal or Use Al Bhed Potions or something. And a Lucid Ring accessory for Yuna that locks out most common status effects. Meh. .jpg) Anyway, that is literally all Yuna's half of Via Purifico has to offer. A bunch of copy and pasted hallways and some middling treasure. If you really want you can bolt through the entire place in about five minutes. Of course, it's not quite going to be that easy. There's no Yevon guardian of the Via Purifico. That would make for to much sense for a dungeon meant to kill heathens to the weird Yevon death cult. No instead, they sent... this moron... Music ends... .jpg) “Why are you here?”  "We rode the airship to the Calm Lands, then came to Bevelle. Maester Kinoc summoned us then. Ordered us to 'deal with the traitors.'" *gasp* "You will fight us?" ”I do not see that going well for you.” "The temple's orders are law. Even if you are Lord Braska's flesh and blood... You're a traitor!”.jpg) “Maroda and Pacce are not here. I will do this unhappy deed myself.”.jpg) Music: Enemy Attack .jpg) .jpg) So remember how I said Yuna's guardians were doing a piss poor job in this dungeon? Well here's Exhibit A on their poor quarterly performance review. Instead of just running over and kicking the poo poo out of this D-List summoner before he can do jack poo poo, like they ought to (and that frankly would have been kind of hilarious.) Auron, Lulu, and Kimahri instead opt for a smoke break while Yuna has a summon-off against Isaaru. What was even the point of gathering them in the dungeon!? Why was that a mechanic there?! .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Isaaru chooses his Ifrit, Grothia (Greek for Fist. Apparently it's just called “Fist” in the HD Remaster and the original Japanese.) That's cute. I remember back when Yuna got her Ifrit-type way back like a day into her pilgrimage. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) She's upgraded a little bit since Kilika... .jpg) .jpg) We could blast this fool with Trogdor's Overdrive and one-shot the low end summon. But something tells me this may be a multi-stage affair. And why bother when we've got an aeon lacking elemental abilities and equipped with tier 3 blizzard spells against the fire-type Pokemon? .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Isaaru's aeon will probably get uppity and pop off its Overdrive as soon as it gets a turn since around three turns worth of Blizzaga is enough to fill its overdrive meter and Trogdor is fast enough to get two turns right off the bat. But that's fine. It'll only take Trogdor to around 66% and... .jpg) .jpg) ...it's not going to endure a fourth round of ice chunks exploding up its rear end. So much for your fist, Isaaru? What else have you got? .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Aww it's good you made it to Besaid Temple and picked up your own bird with tits before getting punked by a bunch of no-name Al Bhed kidnappers. Did anyone ever tell you about the time Yuna and company blew up an Al Bhed tank? Or when she summoned a Valefor-type while freefalling and rode that sonuvabitch to safety? .jpg) We've upgraded our Flying Type since then. .jpg) Isaaru's .jpg) .jpg) It's hard to see past the wings and impatient posing, but Trogdor actually has a magical turbine on his back. One which can be revved up and used to power the dragon man's laser beam breath. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Yeah... That's pretty much it. Nothing too flashy. Just a beam cannon of death for hitting almost at the damage cap. So... Isaaru should be loving dead, right? Like vaporized along with several blocks of Bevelle. .jpg) .jpg) The adversary aeon actually does just no-sell that whole overdrive beam cannon. But when I said it wasn't remotely a threat, I wasn't kidding. It whiffed two attacks and did its Sonic Wings to delay Trogdor for all of one turn. .jpg) .jpg) It did not survive the turn following that. Alright shithog. That's your Fist and Wing down? Going to pull out your... I was going to make a joke about naming your Ixion a penis joke but it struck me typing “Greek Penis” into Google is probably not a wise life decision so I refrained... .jpg) Whatever... Just bring out your electric dog and let's get this do— .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Oh... poo poo... So you speed-ran that Bevelle Temple too...? Haha... That place was a real shitshow of design, huh... … Crap... .jpg) .jpg) Well fine. Be that way. What kind of a lousy name for a big badass Bahamut is “Spathi”!? It doesn't even have a sword, you Raiden voiced idiot. .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) Well whatever. We were storing up all the additional aeon overdrives for just such an occasion. Though of course, Isaaru's boss aeons have inflated HP for balancing issues. Bootleg Ifrit had 8,000. Dollar Store Valefor had 12,000 HP. And this Greek knock-off of Bahamut has 20,000. .jpg) But being a boss version of an aeon, it's also bound by silly nonsense like not attacking until it counts down to five and uses its Overdrive. Granted, the Overdrive will 1-shot any of our four remaining aeons (and yes we can use all four until we beat Isaaru.) But pfft... We already took out half its HP with that overdrive. .jpg) .jpg) It only made it to the count of two before this aeon and Isaaru's summoning career were both on ice. Get dunked on by a real summoner! .jpg) .jpg) You're over half way through your pilgrimage and you only have 6,000 gil to cough up from your war chest? What did you spend it all on Phoenix Downs for that seven year old guardian you had? Moron. .jpg) "Stay away!” “Yuna, let's go.” “...” “There's a way to the surface up ahead.” ”Yes... I... Well, it's not very large back there. This is sort of the only way, so I figured as much. But thank you...”.jpg) Yuna bows and walks off with Kimahri and Lulu. Yep. That's it. They've escaped Via Purifico – the fearsome dungeon of Bevelle nobody has survived in Yevon's 1,000 years of existing... .jpg) And with that, Auron scoops up Isaaru and dumps him off the side of the Final Fantasy X plot train, never to be seen again...    Video: Episode 77 Highlight Reel   Bahamut Concept Art  Bahamut Final Fantasy Record Keeper Sprite The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 02:26
|
|
|
There is precisely one time in the game where fighting the Aeons is done well. And yeah I completely missed Lulu because I really just wanted to get out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
So, instead of finding your companions to make sure you have a full party plus one for the final boss, they make finding them totally meaningless by having it be a summoner duel. And if you mess up and only find Auron, Kimahri and Lulu pop out of nowhere later on. Spit and string is generous for how connected everything after Macarena is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
Never tried to skip the team in the Via Purifico, since I thought you'd be railroaded into getting them anyway, like in Bikanel. Like Yuna would use her (never before seen and never again mentioned) Boss Telepathy to know she couldn't advance down the hallway without her Guardians.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 02:58
|
|
