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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

EponymousMrYar posted:

Hope gets some whining entitlement due to his situation. He doesn't get to be passive-aggressive about those whines because it prolongs dramatic tension with a climax of 'dang it finally you're actually dealing with this stuff rather than sitting there moping and wangsting about it. Way to no longer be a baby.' That's not a satisfying resolution to how long the 'conflict' is drawn out.

As Fedule said the cast is pretty much focus-tested to be popular and unfortunately Hope's the resident Shinji Ikari, a character I wish Japan would let fade into obscurity already.

The main problem is the story of the game (Hopes angsting and moping) doesn't fit with his in character actions (Running into battle with a boomerang against monsters.) in the Super Robot Wars games, whenever Eva is involved, Shinji usually isn't... well... Shinji, because it would be ridiculous to be mopey and angsty with no friends or proper parental figures when you're literally surrounded by some of the nicest people and wisest adults in the world. Ergo, while he may start out as 'Shinji' it doesn't take long for his development to take another direction because his initial direction would make no sense.

Hopes actions in the gameplay don't make sense considering his actions in the story. So he's just a poo poo.

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berryjon
May 30, 2011

I have an invasion to go to.

Fedule posted:

XIII's characters all share the same basic problem; they are the epitome of design-by-focus-test.

Not just the characters. Whole pre-rendered cutscenes were finished before the plot and writers had a say in them. So you had characters doing things without rhyme or reason, and it was part of the whole culture of the company at the time - Spectacle before all else. Which has been known as the worst way to perform since Aristotle.

You can see how it starts here in FFX, with the previous Pre-rendered Cutscene. It was supposed to be a high-point in the game and the series as a whole - and we got what you see. The first game on the PS2, and they had to push everything to their limits, and while they did that, the focus on the graphics and the dedication to making the equivalent of a Movie Blockbuster in RPG form warped their design works for years.

Thankfully, after Bravely Default and Four Warriors of Light casually made main-line FF titles their bitch in terms of sales and profits, the people in charge of SE have begun taking a long look into why their flagship is faltering, and slowly making improvements. It's one of the reasons why XV is it's own title, rather than being another XIII spinoff, and XI got killed in favor of XIV.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
11's still going, in fact they just had a crossover event with 14.

It's also slightly incorrect in saying Bravely Default was a big reason why Square Enix changed their approach. It was mostly because FF14's 1.0 launch was such a huge disaster that it forced them to switch up their entire pipeline and put people in charge that have actually shipped games.

Tae fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Dec 2, 2015

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
Shantotto's Revenge. Or something like that.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012

NikkolasKing posted:

You could counter with Tidus is only 16 or 17 and just had his civilization wiped out but he seemed to have gotten over that remarkably fast.

Did Tidus ever actually address that he wasn't just forcibly removed from his lifelong home, but also witnessed it getting blown the gently caress up?

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Looper posted:

Did Tidus ever actually address that he wasn't just forcibly removed from his lifelong home, but also witnessed it getting blown the gently caress up?

Not really, but the fact that nobody besides Yuna and Auron take him seriously about even being from Zanarkand (what with it having been dead for over a millennium) he hasn't really had much option but to move on.

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.
The problem with Hope as compared with Tidus is pacing, really. I mean, Tidus at least has a defined, easily recognizable character. As opposed to Hope, who stays stagnant and annoying way too long because FFXIII has the pacing of a glacier. FFX's pacing isn't great, no, but at least it does bear the mark of a story that has something resembling a beginning, a middle, and an end. FFXIII... honestly I generally have a hard time recalling much of anything of that game, really.

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas magic
FFX also has the advantage of us only following one group of goopers on their journey to Save The World(TM), whereas in XIII you jumped around like three groups of assholes and it wasn't until the last third or so of the game that you actually had the entire loving party all together again. When you only have to follow one group, it's easier to give a poo poo about them.

MechanicalTomPetty
Oct 30, 2011

Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me
My favourite part of FFXIII was the bit where Hope makes an idle observation about the magitek equivalent of a sewer and Lightning abruptly launches into a huge ranting monologue about how "THEY'RE ALL JUST PETS".

I really hope XIV XV handles the open world stuff better, the demo has me pretty hopeful about that at least.

Edit: I hate roman numerals.

MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Dec 2, 2015

berenzen
Jan 23, 2012

I would argue that FFXIV probably handled open world the best of the main-line final fantasies. :v:

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas magic

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

My favourite part of FFXIII was the bit where Hope makes an idle observation about the magitek equivalent of a sewer and Lightning abruptly launches into a huge ranting monologue about how "THEY'RE ALL JUST PETS".

I think I know the part you're talking about, and I think you're misremembering it :v: They were in the magitech equivalent of a sewer, but Hope was making an observation about Carbuncle, the Fal'Cie responsible for food production, and that's what prompted Lightning's little shitfit, about the Fal'Cie feeding them like pets.

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

berryjon posted:

Thankfully, after Bravely Default and Four Warriors of Light casually made main-line FF titles their bitch in terms of sales and profits, the people in charge of SE have begun taking a long look into why their flagship is faltering, and slowly making improvements. It's one of the reasons why XV is it's own title, rather than being another XIII spinoff, and XI got killed in favor of XIV.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

That's honestly pretty cool :shobon:

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Captain Oblivious posted:

That's honestly pretty cool :shobon:

I mean, it just kinda feels like after nine years of development they'd have all the rocks they needed, you know?

E:
VV even four years into development they should have all the rocks they need.

TurnipFritter fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Dec 2, 2015

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

TurnipFritter posted:

I mean, it just kinda feels like after nine years of development they'd have all the rocks they needed, you know?

Most games that are announced actually aren't being worked on, XV was one of them, it didn't enter actual production until 2011. Especially since the FFXIV conundrum cannibalized most of Squares internal teams for "Sort this poo poo out.exe"

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST
I think one of the latest updates had them talking about implementing 'procedural skies'.

The Dark Id
Aug 13, 2005

Why
you
know
I
LOVE
THIS SHIT !!!!
[citation needed]
Episode LXXXII: Reach My Road's End



So Yuna and Tidus got it done. They made out and boned in a pond full of dead people vapor. That happened. No big deal.



“If I give up now... I could do anything I wanted to, and yet... Even if I was with you, I could never forget."
*sigh* “And there is the... whole Yevon excommunication thing... And Sin.”
“And marrying Seymour. That sucked, huh...?”
*hundred yard stare*

“I'll go with you.”
“Oh...?”
“I'm your guardian.”



Don't even need to Photoshop in a shiteating grin on Tidus like he just scored the winning blitzball goal. :v:



”There's no like... guardian contract fine print about umm... ya know... A summoner/guardian exhibition match...? Right...?”
*chuckles and shakes head* “Stay with me... until the end.”
*bows head* “Please.”
*shakes head* "Not until the end... Always."



Aww. That's sweet.



By the way, Kimahri has been here the whole time. Watching. Observing... He saw it. He saw everything. He gives a silent cat little smirk and walks off.



"Roger!"







Yeah... I'm sure this won't be awkward around the rest of the party together on this death march to fight a sea monster.



Anyway, you heard Yuna. We ought to get back. You know it's been while since there's been a five second walking bit of gameplay to trigger the next cutscene. Giving that a rest for a while was one of the very few things Bevelle had going for it.





A few paces down the path, Tidus gazes at the stars and reflects on how he just scored. However, this is quickly put to a halt when he hears Yuna whistle and immediately starts running back to see what's wrong.





Oh. Well, I supposed we should be thankful these two went with whistling as their cute couples thing and not breaking into fake laughter.





Welp. Yuna quickly changed her mind from “maybe we should keep this on the d-low” to “gently caress it yes I've got a ~*~BOYFRIEND~*~.



Meanwhile, the rest of the party gathers in a circle of awkward silence and distant stares. Do you think everyone besides Kimahri knows what Tidus and Yuna have been up to...?



Welp... No one can look Tidus in the face. Besides the only other party member that tried hitting on Tidus. Yep... I think they know.



Sorry Rikku. No one goes for the spunky jail-bait girl in these games. Maybe you'll have better luck in the sequel.

Yuna wanders in closely behind Tidus...




“Wakka? Lulu? Kimahri? Rikku? Everyone, we leave at dawn. And...”
*bows* “I'm sorry for putting you all through this.” And...um..."
“Enough. You need your rest.”
“Yes. Good night.” *bows*


Music: Macalania Forest








Alright then. That was one hell of a strange, poorly plotted detour. But I suppose the pilgrimage is back on the road at last.



The party heads toward the east and following them will progress the game. We came from the north. To the south is the bone zone pond. West, past the loitering woman who will tell us Bevelle is closed off, does have something of interest...



Another fork in the road lies past her. Northwest from here would lead to the road to Bevelle. However, it is indeed closed. Forever. They never actually designed a Bevelle proper to explore and we'll never be setting foot there again. No need to worry about direct pursuit from Yevon however. They all just sort of gave up after Seymour got waxed for a second time.



In every version of Final Fantasy X past the original PS2 North American release (Read: The much later released PAL version and Japanese International re-release, which the HD Remasters are based off of) at this point in the game Yevon actually does take steps to kill Yuna and her guardians. Yevon apparently has a stable of loyal evil summoners armed with Dark Aeons. Which are a bunch of bullshit superboss palette swap versions of Yuna's summons that make the already awful grind of Final Fantasy X's endgame demonstrably worse.

That ain't in the version of the game I'm playing for this LP because gently caress that noise. So don't worry about it. I'll mention the details of where you'd fight 'em during the End Game misery time of woe towards the end of the LP. But other than that, meh...



Anyway, if we head southwest Tidus will find himself back in Macalania Woods proper on a previously inaccessible route just before the road to Lake Macalania.



And wouldn't you know it? On the trail here we just so happen to find another Jecht Sphere. Let's have a sit down and take another look at Final Fantasy X-0, shall we?




Music: Jecht's Theme




I have no earthly idea who the hell is supposed to be recording this one. Bevelle's Yevon Sanctioned Security Cameras that Jecht somehow got his hands on to convert into fantasy VHS tapes...? You got me...



"You are the one they call Jecht, the man from Zanarkand, are you not?"
"What of it?"
”What? Are you my lawyer? Do I get my phone call now? I've been askin' sugartits in the dumb robot mask over there for it it and she acts like she's never heard of a drat phone. Tch... Women.”
“Uhh... no.”




Young Auron runs over to defend the honor of Braska-senpai. Young Auron was kind of a dork.



“I've come to take you from this place."
“Hmm...”

Jecht stands up...



“Ahhaha... That easy to see, was it?”
”Well out with the details. Look, man. I've only been in here a couple days. And ain't getting into any weird sex stuff just yet, if that's what you're sniffing for... Don't think I don't see samurai jackass here eyeballing me funny...”
*glares*

“I soon leave on a pilgrimage... to Zanarkand.”
“Seriously?!”
*nods* “Hmm... I would like you to join us. It will be a dangerous trip.”
”Sounds like my kinda weekend.”
“Yet, if we do reach Zanarkand... my prayers will be answered, and you will be able to go home, we think. What say you?"
"Great, let's go!"
"So quick?"
*cracks neck*"Anything to get outta here!"
”There's some fuckin' burly rear end hairy dude the next cell over. Smells like a cat crawled up his colon and died or something.”
"Then it's settled."
"But I must protest... This drunkard a guardian?"
"Hey! You want to step in here and say that?"
*looks Auron over* “Pot calling the kettle black much...? The gently caress's in your hip jug there, Fei Fong Dong? Your mama's breast milk?”
*glares*

*turns to Auron* "What does it matter?



“...could possibly defeat Sin. This is what they say. No one expects us to succeed."
"Braska, sir..."
"Let's show them they're wrong. A fallen summoner, a man from Zanarkand... and a warrior monk, doomed to obscurity for refusing the hand of the priest's daughter."
”Ha! Couldn't score with a chick handed to you, Rurouni Kenshit?”
“Silence!”

“What delightful irony it would be if we defeated Sin!"
”I am getting old. I might as well get weird with this pilgrimage. Perhaps we could pick up a Hypello companion...? Or one of those delightful little drumming guys from Macalania. I don't know.”
“Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, sir...”

"Stop gabbin' and get me outta here!"





"Now, Jecht... I am in your hands until we reach Zanarkand."
"Right, right. So, what's a summer-ner, anyway?"
”And where's the nearest titty bar in this dump of a town? I gotta get myself sorted out.”





And that's it for that leg of Jecht, Auron, and Braska's Bogus Adventure. Let's catch up with the rest of the party. They've got to be wondering what is taking Tidus so long by now...





Proceeding to the next area, the World Map overlays across the screen. Evidently, we are now entering The Calm Lands with our next destination being Mt. Gagazet. We are actually pretty drat close to Zanarkand at this point. Mt. Gagazet is the last stop before we reach the dead city to the far north and... actually catch up with The Present. That'll be weird!




New Music: Yuna's Determination








Well, there's a trailer shot if I ever saw one. Welcome to The Calm Lands. Didja know the Playstation 2 is capable of rendering fairly distant scenery* with its next generation console horsepower? Well here's Exhibit A and one of the first areas worked on in Final Fantasy X to showcase Square's ability to do purdy graphics.

* Assuming you aren't planning on placing any objects or foliage further than fifteen feet.



Indeed, some of the very earliest blurry, pixelated prototype shots of Final Fantasy X out in the wild are of a black haired Tidus wandering around The Calm Lands.



“The road ends here.”



”...Yeah I see mountains on like the other side there...”
"Many summoners stray from their path and lose their way here."







Holy poo poo! Auron was not joking! I cannot loving believe Yuna just instantly keeled over dead like that! Savage!



Psst. Yuna. I'm going to let you in on a secret here. This is just like Gran Pulse in Final Fantasy XIII where gullible idiots claim the game really opens up. But it's really just a big wide oval with more pretty linear corridors on the other side. Don't panic.









Pictured: Rikku getting embarrassed her cousin is the one the designated handsome teenage male protagonist is getting with in this adventure. Meanwhile, Wakka and Kimahri stand by in bro solidarity, proud their boy has hooked up. :v:





I guess I wanted to believe that words could make it come true...






Video: Episode 82 Highlight Reel






Calm Lands Concept Art

The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Dec 2, 2015

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas magic
I never noticed Kimahri and Wakka both standing there like that before :v:

ManlyGrunting
May 29, 2014
So if the bone zone is in the part of the game with Tidus narrating, maybe the whole Zero-G underwater makeout thing was just him making up ad hoc nonsensical metaphors about it to the party :v:

e: I imagine the whole time Yuna's face is beet-red, her head completely buried in her hands. She knows that's not how it went down but she's too embarrassed to correct him or make eye contact. Suddenly the death of a High Summoner has a certain appeal.

ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Dec 2, 2015

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas magic

ManlyGrunting posted:

So if the bone zone is in the part of the game with Tidus narrating, maybe the whole Zero-G underwater makeout thing was just him making up ad hoc nonsensical metaphors about it to the party :v:

"What's he talking about, a goal? There's no blitz sphere he- oh. Oh. Oooh. :stare:"

Bufuman
Jun 15, 2013

Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.
Huh. Never would've figured that Jecht would have the patience to get to Xenogears disc 2.

The Rurouni Kenshin reference is a bit less of a surprise because that one can get really freaking gory. First chapter alone has severed limbs flying around and poo poo.

I predict that within the next update or two, TDI will be replying to a certain request with a "gently caress THAT poo poo." And then he'll end up doing it anyway because he tends to 100% these games. Though as someone that recently beat a certain bastard of a boss tied to the very end of that sidequest, I wouldn't blame him if he made an exception.

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas magic

Bufuman posted:

Huh. Never would've figured that Jecht would have the patience to get to Xenogears disc 2.

You'd be surprised how strong the allure of giant robots can be :v:

Gihyou
Feb 19, 2011

Oh God no the ball is gone.
Tidus walking back to the group with a giant smirk on his face. "Hey, Wakka, remember back in Besaid? How you said I shouldn't get any ideas about Yuna and there's no way she'll be coming onto me? WELL."

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.
Young Auron is such a tool, I love it.

I always imagined Tidus laughing his rear end off watching those, just waiting for a chance to bring it up next time Auron treats him like poo poo.

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013


Nice to see that during development of FFX, they took a look at our buddy Tinkles and thought "Y'know, the black hair looks dumb but that outfit? Perfect."

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

Young Auron is such a tool, I love it.

I always imagined Tidus laughing his rear end off watching those, just waiting for a chance to bring it up next time Auron treats him like poo poo.

He really should pull the knave line right back on him :colbert:

Llab
Dec 28, 2011

PEPSI FOR VG BABE
Jeez, Braska, cool it with the exposition there, buddy. No wonder he was allowed to continue as a summoner after getting with Yuna's mom. Nobody wanted to hear him expositing about every single little thing.

Seriously, I remember his speech being more inspiring when I was younger. Now it just seems like "beep boop this is how humans talk like."

E: 4am posting is always a bad idea

Llab fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Dec 2, 2015

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy

Llab posted:

No wonder he was allowed to continue as a summoner after getting with Yuna's mouth.

Uh

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!


Autocorrect from mom, I'd assume.

Speaking of, is there any information on Yuna's mom in-game beyond Al-bhed and Cid's sister? Because I don't recall even a bloody name.
Admittedly, this is the company where beloved title Chrono Trigger had a character called Crono's mom, but still.

Tactless Ogre
Oct 31, 2011

NikkolasKing posted:

Hope is of course only 14 and just had his mother die. You could counter with Tidus is only 16 or 17 and just had his civilization wiped out but he seemed to have gotten over that remarkably fast.

But yes, I would expect Hope to be whinier than Tidus and almost nothing Hope does is rational. I just don't blame him for it because it makes sense.

Still say the worst character in XIII is Lightning. I'll take Hoe's whining or Snow' declaration of heroism over her being angry at everything and a mega super bitch.

The only thing I had against the Hope angle was that it took too drat long for him to really spit it out despite having many moments to get it out ahead of time. And I have to agree with you on Snow. At first, I was against him too because of the hero theatrics and all of that; but after a while, I was rooting for him if only because even if he didn't have a plan or anything of the sort because at the loving least he was willing to try SOMETHING. Compared to Lightning the waifu mega bitch who made me gnash my teeth everytime she opened her loving mouth; I was ready to embrace the dumb hero as opposed to her. Hell, I thought Serah was more likable than her in FFXIII and she was a drat rock in that game.


:allears: I never, EVER get tired of listening to this track.

Tactless Ogre fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Dec 2, 2015

VagueRant
May 24, 2012
Forgot how much of an Id character Jecht is. It's Ghost Billy all over again.

So, do we reckon Tidus and Yuna canonically did it in the swamp?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


VagueRant posted:

So, do we reckon Tidus and Yuna canonically did it in the swamp?

This being a Japanese game, I doubt they ever said specifically that they banged.

It was so goddamn refreshing to see Elly sleeping in Fei's bed, as weird as that sounds.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

I haven't realized how much I missed Jecht's dickishness.

Samurai Chump Lou would be a good one too.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
I like to think that the reason Auron is so calm now is that being forced to travel with Jecth for so long was so stressful that it completely destroyed his ability to care about anything.

Rose Spirit
Nov 4, 2010

:33 < APEX PURREDATOR
Wait, these Dark Aeons people keep complaining about are actually part of the game proper? Not endgame/NG+/sidequest poo poo?? drat.

The Dark Id posted:

Well here's Exhibit A and one of the first areas worked on in Final Fantasy X to showcase Square's ability to do purdy graphics. If you look around hard enough you can find some
Some...?

Looper
Mar 1, 2012

Rose Spirit posted:

Wait, these Dark Aeons people keep complaining about are actually part of the game proper? Not endgame/NG+/sidequest poo poo?? drat.

Some...?

They're definitely meant to be endgame sidequests but the placement of a couple is just plain rude

also the calm lands are dumb and bad

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?
The Calm Lands has pretty good music at least.

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

GunnerJ posted:

The Calm Lands has pretty good music at least.

There's only a few places in the game you can't say this about though. Music has ever been one of Final Fantasy's strong bits.

ZoninSilver
May 30, 2011

Looper posted:

They're definitely meant to be endgame sidequests but the placement of a couple is just plain rude

also the calm lands are dumb and bad

I had no clue they were a thing when I first played this, then read about the extra Valefor overdrive in the starter village and went back for that.

Not gonna lie, that scared the poo poo out of me back then.

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The Dark Id
Aug 13, 2005

Why
you
know
I
LOVE
THIS SHIT !!!!
[citation needed]

Rose Spirit posted:

Wait, these Dark Aeons people keep complaining about are actually part of the game proper? Not endgame/NG+/sidequest poo poo?? drat.

Yep. While a few need to be manually activated, many of the Dark Aeons get dumped in the middle of the road at assorted points we've already passed. I'll go into a bit more detail later, but one gets dumped in front of Besaid Village (so gently caress you if you didn't backtrack for a couple hours to go grab the Jecht Sphere that spawned here), the end of Bikanel Island, the middle of the Thunder Planes, the entrance to Macalania Temple, and the Mi'ihen Highroad past Mushroom Rock.

It loving sucks. They're not good boss fights since they're mostly the same exact battle where you have to be buff enough to endure strong rear end physicals, the occasional strong rear end magic, and one super attack that will wipe the party unless you've taken measures against it. And they all have over a million HP. The only positive thing I can say about them are the cutscenes that trigger each fight are mostly hilariously half-assed re-purposing of old soundbites, animations and NPCs clearly not meant to be seen close up. That shot of sinister bald monk with the largest collar this side of Kahran Ramsus in the update is straight from the game.

Also that previous update had an easter egg I don't think anyone found. :v:

The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 2, 2015

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