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The Ninth Layer posted:You seem to take it for granted that TMM would suddenly have this epiphany that his nightkill speculation was a mistake. I don't see why he would have that epiphany. Then if he thought there WAS value in NK speculation, why wouldn't he have said "What's wrong with NK spec?" Why roll his eyes at Kashuno mafia-dading for no reason and demand the content move in a different direction? How does that follow at all if he didn't have the epiphany?
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Oct 16, 2015 23:35
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 12:43 |
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I have to drive home now.
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Oct 16, 2015 23:36
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The Ninth Layer posted:So you are saying he should have started that conversation, else you wouldn't have said he was "distracting away from it." I'm not saying he should have started a conversation speculating about the night kill, but it would have been reasonable for him to ask why he couldn't do that. Those are two different things. You can easily dismiss this as different strikes for different folks so I am not sure this is worth engaging with you on anymore.
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Oct 16, 2015 23:58
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The Ninth Layer posted:Because he thought the comment was worthy of an eye-roll. People have different personalities you know. This doesn't make someone scum at all and it's not a particularly good point for you to be breaking down in numbered lists. You're making a mountain out of something you yourself called a micro-exchange. It's almost as if I am reading into intent in regards to how people are phrasing things to see if they are purposefully being misleading is disingenuous! 
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Oct 17, 2015 00:00
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Cool. Please explain to me now what this engagement you have been pushing between the two of us has gained the thread in terms of content.
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Oct 17, 2015 00:05
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The Ninth Layer posted:Is it purposefully misleading or disingenuous for you to characterize TMM's post as gently caress YOU DAD or was that just an accident? It was hyperbolic and I have admitted that!
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Oct 17, 2015 00:05
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I don't buy it. Calling TNL as a 3p of some kind. Back to my reread.
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Oct 17, 2015 00:21
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Kashuno posted:Hi here is my list This is the reason I felt OK voting Kashuno with no other content to go on, this list is terrible. Boo!
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Oct 17, 2015 01:13
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Poison Mushroom posted:Why is Conall on your absolute scum list if you've never voted or even really mentioned him(?) until now? I don't like that. Hell, upon looking, it seems like the only time you mentioned him outside of jokephase was to defend him from TM. How did such strong feelings come out of nowhere with no previous mention at all? That feels fake as gently caress. I like this analysis and this opinion from PMush. This feels town to me.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:14
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TMMadman posted:Kash, I have never seen you be this hesitant to name players you think are scum. Calls out Kash again for acting scummy, no vote. TMMadman posted:A list with no explanation or reasons for why people are ranked in that order. Not very helpful. Calls out Kash again for acting scummy, no vote. TMMadman posted:That's one way of making sure that you can give whatever opinion is convenient for you. Calls out Kash again for acting scummy, no vote. So why does he do this? He explains! TMMadman posted:This is actually part of the reason I am not currently voting Kash. I think he is scummy as hell this game, but since I always think he's scum and we always end up attacking each other, I'm trying not to let that bias me and so I'm holding my vote back from him for the moment. Also it's because PMush seems way more scummy to me. I do not believe that last statement to be true at all. And in conjunction with: quote:Like I said, I feel like Kash is really all over the place in this game and it's really pinging me hard. But, honestly, one of the reasons I'm not voting for Kash at the moment is because I think he might be right about SA as well, so I have to consider the possibility that Kash and PMush aren't scum together, which is why I'd rather dunk PMush because I feel much stronger about her being scum. I just don't buy it. I need to reread why TMM is so deadset on PMush being scum in comparison to how much he has been pushing Kashuno. Hold up.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:18
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TMMadman posted:Personally, I think PMush is scum. She spent most of D1 saying that Kash and I are scum together because our argument seemed too perfectly staged. Then with 6 hours left to deadline, she unvotes Kash saying she isn't feeling it anymore because she doesn't think two scum would butt heads so long but completely ignores the fact that one of us could still be scum. Her unvote also essentially (and conveniently) makes Kash an unviable target. When asked for other reads she says she stopped looking because she was convinced Kash and I were scum together. To me, it reads like she is either working with Kash or she knows our alignments already. This is the case that is so much more a solid slam dunk over his hard pushing of Kashuno that he's not willing to vote Kash. But it's actually a bad case: quote:Then with 6 hours left to deadline, she unvotes Kash saying she isn't feeling it anymore because she doesn't think two scum would butt heads so long but completely ignores the fact that one of us could still be scum. Not actually what PMush said! Poison Mushroom posted:##unvote PMush here is saying "I don't think that either of them, as scum, would keep doing this, it would be too suspicious. Therefore, it looks like a townie slap fight." That is NOT "they clearly aren't on a team together and therefore they are not both scum." TMM is misrepresenting her here. quote:Her unvote also essentially (and conveniently) makes Kash an unviable target. I don't know what this means. Because of the way the votes were at the time? quote:When asked for other reads she says she stopped looking because she was convinced Kash and I were scum together. This is the only valid thing he has in his case, and while it is true PMush offered a reread and then vanished, she explained what's been going on with her today, and I buy it. I don't see this as lurking scum, I see this as busy and exhausted PMush. quote:To me, it reads like she is either working with Kash or she knows our alignments already. The first is a ridiculous connection. Why do you see her as working with Kashuno initially? The second part would be a stronger statement if you hadn't undermined your own case by misrepresenting her.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:25
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The Ninth Layer posted:The point TMM was making was that PMush was suspicious of both players and suddenly is suspicious of neither of them. He's right that PMush doesn't consider whether one of them individually would be scum. She just goes from "you guys are scum contriving an argument to distance each other" to "neither of you are scum because you're still arguing with each other." He's right in that she doesn't stop to consider whether one or the other might be scum, she writes them both off from being scum at the same time. She probably has considered it because she essentially says "The only way I could see you guys still doing this poo poo is if you are both town." That means she probably stopped at some point and said "is maybe one of them scum? No, I don't think so, because if one of them were scum I think that person would have hopped off this already. Let me present my final result." I mean I can't for sure say that's what she did but I don't think everyone needs to present their play by play thought process in the way that I do and to say this makes her scummy when you could just as easily say "she probably thought about it came to a conclusion and then posted said conclusion" is kind of ridiculous.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:34
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TNL, why are you white knighting TMM so hard?
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Oct 17, 2015 01:34
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The Ninth Layer posted:PMush's suspicion depended on both Kash and TMM being scum together so the distinction that she said "either" instead of "both" is meaningless, her argument was the same as if she had said "both" in that post. Oh, so you are an expert on PMush's thought process on this, to the point that you can tell me what she was thinking at the time outside of what she has posted in the thread? Can I have the link to the scumdoc where she explains, then?
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Oct 17, 2015 01:35
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The Ninth Layer posted:PMush's suspicion depended on both Kash and TMM being scum together so the distinction that she said "either" instead of "both" is meaningless, her argument was the same as if she had said "both" in that post. Nope, I do not read this as what she did. I believe she said "either" and not "both" because she had reread what they were doing and made a judgement call that said "if I either of them were scum, I don't think they would be still doing this, I think, as scum, they would have dropped it." Which is, you know. What she said.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:39
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##vote TNL
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Oct 17, 2015 01:39
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Actually, ##unvoteThe Ninth Layer posted:If you investigated me as scum, you got a bunk result. 3p who can only be NKed is my call.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:40
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TMM on PMush: The initial suspicion post: TMMadman posted:Also, if the whole things sound fake, why vote for Kashuno? You seem to think we are both scum buddies, so why be the first vote on a guy instead of putting your vote on the other guy you suspect is scum who already has a vote? Granted the only vote on me at the time is by a guy you think is scum, but the point still stands: if you think we are both scum, shouldn't you be looking to make one of us a viable lynch candidate instead of starting the train on the other? The thing here is I can kinda understand "why did you start a new train instead of going with someone who has traction" as meaning "are you self conscious about placing a vote on someone who already has heat on him," which WOULD speak to PMush caring about how she looks and would be a scum tell...but TMM never brings this up, instead going into this weird thing about "Trying to make one of us a viable lynch candidate" which I just understand what he's trying to do here. He goes back and forth with her a little bit, votes her for not wanting to do any work (that's valid). But then Kashuno comes in and posists that maybe TMM and PMUSH are scum together, and he's on Kashuno's case: TMMadman posted:You really like stretching this game Kash. This logic doesn't make any sense to me at all. In your theory of PMush and I as scum together, why would I come in and attack her for voting you? The bold part makes the least sense to me. If PMush and I are scum together, then she knows I will flip scum, it's not an in case I flip scum deal. Didn't we just have a conversation about distancing in PMush's theory? How is TMM not seeing the clear connection? And THEN: TMMadman posted:In fact, let's go ahead and find out if PMush is scum with you Kash. This is 100% the worst reason to vote someone. Chain-cuddle set up AT IT'S BEST. Don't like this at all. And now he is hardcore on the "Kashuno is scum" train with no mention of PMush. Remember, it's Kashuno's ACTIONS that are making Kashuno scum, NOT his connection to PMush beyond that initial mention of it. He initially said Kashuno is "making poo poo up" and that he therefore "might be scum": Kashuno calls him out on the Chaincuddle: TMMadman posted:Way to be dismissive of my vote. Action call. He then calls...basically everyone who disagrees with him scum, going so far as to say BK is scum for insinuating he might be scum (what) but when derp comes in asking what he should do he doubles down on Kashuno again: TMMadman posted:Vote for Kashuno. He doubles down on this in a summary post: TMMadman posted:I still think Kash is likely to be scum here. While he usually thinks I'm scummy, he generally doesn't go out of his way to attack me on D1. His reasons for voting me feel insincere. BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN IN THE VERY SAME POST: quote:However, I strongly think you should look at PMush. I figured that she would move her vote if I put mine back on Kash and that's exactly what she did. I have a feeling that she never intended to keep her vote on Kash and was just distancing herself from him because they are scumbuddies. Hasn't mentioned PMush in freaking YEARS and yet all of a sudden because she moved her vote it was a "gotcha" all along? Where does calling everyone else under the sun scum during said gotcha fit in? ##vote TMM There might be more but I have to get going soon, and honestly, this is not the slam dunk PMush case you have been presenting as the reason you are not voting Kashuno today. Kind of the opposite~
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Oct 17, 2015 01:48
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TMMadman posted:Hey Quid, why are you white knighting PMush so hard? Because PMush's content has been based in actual reads with content in the thread which have consistant internal logic, whereas you are all over the place and TNL seems to be doing whatever he can to make sure everyone talks about absolutely nothing while he offers zero hard opinions. Which makes me suspicious of you and him and not suspicious of PMush. I have backed my opinions up with content analysis. Can you show me where, beyond TNL's summary post of why I am "spewing bullshit," he's analyzed and interpreted content, rather than purely basing all of his bullshit calls on me in semantic nuance that have nothing to do with my presenting my content disingenuously?
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Oct 17, 2015 01:50
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The Ninth Layer posted:Quidnose's case can be summed up as "TMM didn't vote who I think he should have" which is a very weak case for all the quotes he needed to rely on to make it. You read my entire case in the minute it took me to respond to TMM? You are an amazing reader.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:50
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The Ninth Layer posted:Quidnose's case can be summed up as "TMM didn't vote who I think he should have" which is a very weak case for all the quotes he needed to rely on to make it. Prove that this is true. Footnote my loving quotes. I am about ready to thunderdome the poo poo out of you. Your posting thus far is 100% YAMS, and I'm tired of it. I'm sorry you replaced in as a 3p because I know that makes it hard to care about anything but play the game, man.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:52
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The Ninth Layer posted:I mean, someone had to sum up that long post because you sure as hell weren't going to. See above.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:52
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The Ninth Layer posted:I'm not third-party either. Town town town. I will say that my role is so ridiculously powerful that I've never gotten a role on its level before, to the point where I must wonder what scum got to compensate. 3p uncuddleable, reiterating this.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:53
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The Ninth Layer posted:Quidnose voting me after pushing TMM for two pages is pretty ironic, considering he called TMM out for pushing Kashuno without voting him. Or I went with the soft-claimed cop result with the added boon of you being totally insufferable to play with thus far since you are adding a total of zero content or alignment calls. It's like you've never played mafia before. If there is a dayvig someone should shot TNL.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:54
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TMMadman posted:Why would she move to that conclusion though? Why wouldn't she look at it and go "townie slap fight" in the way that she said she did? quote:Why couldn't I be scum and continue to attack Kash because if he gets voted out D1, it'd be easy as hell for me to turn around on D2 and say "Welp, I was wrong, but wrong doesn't equal scum." Why wouldn't you, as scum, also realize that tunneling is a bad idea especially if the person is tunneling back and find a way to drop it? Since you didn't do that, why would it be unreasonable for her to say "that's a town attitude?" quote:It's especially puzzling because I think I was the aggressor during most of it against Kash on D1, so if I'm town and think Kash is scum, then why wouldn't I continue to attack him? That's what she said you did. She also said that since Kash was doing it too, IT LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE BOTH TOWNIES DOING THE SAME THING. Jesus. quote:PMush does not seem like she is coming from an honest place and it feels like she already knows our alignments. Nah.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:56
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The Ninth Layer posted:Calling me 3p is a cop-out for having nothing to call me scum on. Funny that when you've contributed zero content thus far!
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Oct 17, 2015 01:56
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The Ninth Layer posted:You mad bro? To be honest I didn't even read you case really, I figured you didn't want anyone to read it the way you formatted it with a million "and then he said this!!" quotes. So what you're saying is, when you summarized my case, and then double downed on the summary of my case, you hadn't, in fact, read my case, and were lying about doing so, and then misrepresenting yourself to make me look bad?
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Oct 17, 2015 01:57
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The Ninth Layer posted:lmao you have a very interesting definition of zero content. I replaced in this afternoon and already have more content than half the thread. I am sorry, TNL, god's gift to mafia, that I have made you upset. Someone shoot TNL now please, thanks.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:57
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TMMadman posted:Seriously, how can you say he has produced no content? He's spent several hours today arguing with you and that is content for the rest of us to sort through and use to determine alignments. His arguments are not based on content. They are completely based on him nit picking every. loving. post I have made in order to create a narrative of me being disingenuous, without making a hard call about me being scum. Reread it and see!
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Oct 17, 2015 01:59
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The Ninth Layer posted:I'm caught up. Happy with my Poison Mushroom vote, my impression up until that Kash vote was that Poison Mushroom was starting to play like a spectator. Then she voted Kash and immediately unvoted after one post, it was the most token effort ever and the kind of thing I have done as scum a lot when I make a case that I don't feel like committing on. None of this is true, there was, like, a day in between the Kash vote and her unvoting, and she discussed it with people. Ignores the specifics of PMush's contributions completely to create a narrative he wants. quote:Rarity's case on BK was bad, you know a case isn't very good when you could effectively remove four lines from it. The rest of her play isn't great either, she voted Tommunist citing his four games as evidence for him being newbie scum rather than just a newbie. An entire opinion based on one case that is easy to jump on because a. someone already called it out and b. it resulted in a miscuddle. A judgement call about what she did that cannot be verified and isn't really content based. CURIOUS~ quote:I don't think SA is a bad lynch, his posts have fallen off since the early portion of the game, strikes me as scum that wanted to make an impression early but couldn't sustain it. Easy to name a lurker-ish person as someone he is suspicious of. These reads are crap.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:02
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I honestly am just kinda ready to put TNL on ignore and be done with this.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:03
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TMMadman posted:Seriously, how can you say he has produced no content? He's spent several hours today arguing with you and that is content for the rest of us to sort through and use to determine alignments. TMM, if you're not scum, then I really want you to look at what TNL has contributed after his "initial hard and awesome reads" which I just analyzed through the lens of whether or not he's actually discussing content or just trying to rile me up while dropping no opinions himself. If you are town, I think you are getting caught up in the fact that he is defending you and letting it affect your judgement. I think it is much more likely that you are scum and just enjoying the fact that someone who is not on your scumteam (3p TNL) is defending you and distracting the entire thread.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:05
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The Ninth Layer posted:There were two posts between Poison Mushroom voting Kash and then unvoting. I just looked at the time stamps and it was 14 minutes, not one day. I didn't read the rest of your post because it's probably full of similar factual inaccuracies. I thought you were referring to her initial vote on D1 and subsequent unvote, since you framed it immediately after your vote on her for this reasoning from TMM: TMMadman posted:Alright, I'll accept this for now. ...which explicitly states that he is suspicious of PMush for his actions on D1. He makes no mention of PMush's vote today. Had it even happened yet?
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Oct 17, 2015 02:07
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See and the reason I thought you were talking about her play on D1 is because you said this immediately afterwards:The Ninth Layer posted:I'm caught up. Happy with my Poison Mushroom vote, my impression up until that Kash vote was that Poison Mushroom was starting to play like a spectator. Then she voted Kash and immediately unvoted after one post, it was the most token effort ever and the kind of thing I have done as scum a lot when I make a case that I don't feel like committing on. And that seems to be referencing her case on D1 which she dropped, not an initial case that she immediately changed her mind on. Nowhere in here do you say you are talking about her D2 vote. I think you're backpedaling right now, poorly.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:08
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The Ninth Layer posted:I was referring to the vote that took me literally one minute to look up, link and quote. Cool? This has nothing to do with anything, other than to dismiss my points yet again without: -addressing them -refuting them based in content -refuting them based on what I am doing as being disingenuous You are basically just posting "nah" the whole time to everything I am saying. It's yams. Yams yams yams yams yams. This is not content based play.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:09
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TMMadman posted:Well, see the problem is that I know my alignment, so I know that your attacks on me are wrong and I have to question if you are coming at me from a sincere place. Again, that's not based in content. IF you are town, you are falling in love with him "reading your posts right." That has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the content he is creating. There is none. The Ninth Layer posted:Haha I'm obviously not backpedaling, I knew exactly what I was talking about and proved it with a link. This is "nah."
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Oct 17, 2015 02:10
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fiery_valkyrie posted:How do you get TNL as 3P out of your conversation? 1. Tomm's immediate "oh poo poo guys don't cuddle me" reaction early D2 reads less like caught scum to me and more like 3p with a cool role who is afraid of dying. A scum doesn't want to get killed but doesn't care enough to freak the gently caress out if there's sudden heat on him because there are other scum members. A 3p, not so much. 2. TNL coming in and spending the entire day arguing semantics about how I am being disingenuous without ever saying that or ever voting me, while also creating no content and making no alignment calls on anyone else (besides the easy ones) looks like a 3p sitting on the fence rather than a scum trying to make no opinions. It's a feels thing.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:12
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The Ninth Layer posted:I just proved you wrong dude. There was nothing factually inaccurate about what I posted, you misattributed what I was talking about. I just demonstrated to you what I was talking about in my summary post. Get owned. You proved me wrong by telling me what you were thinking at the time without any ability to say that wasn't what happened. Ok!
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Oct 17, 2015 02:13
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TMMadman posted:Oh hey, welcome to the party FV. Have fun with it all. Hi, you've stopped playing mafia since this distraction happened and TNL started defending you. All youv'e done the last page is say "hooray, there is a distraction!" Make a case and analyze some content.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:13
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 12:43 |
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Catching up, so you make have already been asked this Quid, but PMush removed this vote not long after making it. Does that affect your opinion? Nope, I have removed votes and changed my mind based on single responses. I have a HURM. post earlier when I was doing exactly that today.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:13
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