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devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer

The Devil Tesla posted:

I haven't watched yet but I'm excited to be disappointed.

That wasn't disappointing at all!! Everything came together like clockwork, and became sufficiently hosed up. Easily one of my favorite shows of the year.

devtesla fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Dec 11, 2015

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devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer



When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I murdered you.

Cipher Pol 9
Oct 9, 2006




efu efu efu efu

The Devil Tesla posted:



When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I murdered you.
This is very good.

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012



This miiight be my fav show this season.

or that one about bones, idk

Alder
Sep 24, 2013



Fangz posted:

How is this a rocks fall, everyone dies ending?

If the doctor does die despite everything we've been through it feels anti-climactic and the mystery still exists but it's now impossible to solve w/o all the pieces

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Alder posted:

If the doctor does die despite everything we've been through it feels anti-climactic and the mystery still exists but it's now impossible to solve w/o all the pieces

What? What mystery still exists?

The point of rocks fall, everyone dies is that it's a random non-sequitir. I'm speculating that a certain ending happens because it would be a thematically logical conclusion to what this show has been about?

Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 11, 2015

Alder
Sep 24, 2013



Fangz posted:

What? What mystery still exists?

The point of rocks fall, everyone dies is that it's a random non-sequitir. I'm speculating that a certain ending happens because it would be a thematically logical conclusion to what this show has been about?

Like why she wanted to have relationship with her uncle? If she valued freedom so much why commit homicide to be locked up for the next 15 yrs? If she felt the downside of being completely alone why put her daughter through the same ordeal by having her kill her only family?

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Alder posted:

Like why she wanted to have relationship with her uncle? If she valued freedom so much why commit homicide to be locked up for the next 15 yrs? If she felt the downside of being completely alone why put her daughter through the same ordeal by having her kill her only family?

Because anime. I don't think this is going to be one of those stories where the characters have motives or philosophies that make sense on any level besides "it's an anime."

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Alder posted:

Like why she wanted to have relationship with her uncle? If she valued freedom so much why commit homicide to be locked up for the next 15 yrs? If she felt the downside of being completely alone why put her daughter through the same ordeal by having her kill her only family?

Because she loved him and wanted to have his child?

Because freedom was in terms of doing what she wanted without other people telling her no, so being locked up in that room (which she had built *before* the murder), she was free and happy?

Because she never felt the downside of being alone because she was never alone throughout that ordeal, it was the *daughter* that had that realisation?

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


Rand Brittain posted:

Because anime. I don't think this is going to be one of those stories where the characters have motives or philosophies that make sense on any level besides "it's an anime."

It was a book originally though. And not a LN, an actual book.

Alder
Sep 24, 2013



Fangz posted:

Because she loved him and wanted to have his child?

Because freedom was in terms of doing what she wanted without other people telling her no, so being locked up in that room (which she had built *before* the murder), she was free and happy?

Because she never felt the downside of being alone because she was never alone throughout that ordeal, it was the *daughter* that had that realisation?

Alright I admit it. I'm confused by everything the more I think about it

I kinda want my own island full of tech gizmos and VR rooms now.

devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer

Rand Brittain posted:

Because anime. I don't think this is going to be one of those stories where the characters have motives or philosophies that make sense on any level besides "it's an anime."

Lol okay bro

devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer

I shouldn't be surprised about goons missing extremely obvious, double underlined themes, but here you go: Magata achieved some measure of freedom from worldly concerns, and is able to only think about the things she wants to. Saikawa is infatuated with the idea of living like Magata does, but one very big worldly concern keeps him grounded (that's Moe).

The tension between physical confinement and freedom of thought is the core of the story, which is why the climax takes place in a sensory deprivation tank. There's nothing physically to do in the tank, but for the characters in the story it frees their thoughts.

Now that might sound like bullshit to you, and honestly I agree. Sensory deprivation tanks freak me the gently caress out (they were originally developed as a kind of torture), and in general you are supposed to be freaked out at the idea of trading physical freedom for the freedom these folks seem to want. I think for a locked room mystery these are interesting themes to have, and I love the way they play with them.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Rand Brittain posted:

Because anime. I don't think this is going to be one of those stories where the characters have motives or philosophies that make sense on any level besides "it's an anime."

To be fair, in real life many people are mentally ill and do, in fact, do things that make no sense and don't really further their own objectives.

Alder
Sep 24, 2013



Ytlaya posted:

To be fair, in real life many people are mentally ill and do, in fact, do things that make no sense and don't really further their own objectives.

Pretty much my final conclusion, I guess. Oh well another series completed.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


I don't really think it applies here, but resolving a mystery with "bitch be crazy" is never a good idea.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Ytlaya posted:

To be fair, in real life many people are mentally ill and do, in fact, do things that make no sense and don't really further their own objectives.

True, but it's frowned upon in fiction, especially as the solution to a mystery--at least of a Knox's Rules fair-play mystery.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 30 days!


Were there any Mystery rules that this series broke?

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


Xelkelvos posted:

Were there any Mystery rules that this series broke?

I assume a bunch. It wasn't trying to follow the usual formula.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider



Xelkelvos posted:

Were there any Mystery rules that this series broke?

Let's check!

Knox's Decalogue posted:

01. The criminal must be mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to know.
02. All supernatural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course.
03. Not more than one secret room or passage is allowable.
04. No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need a long scientific explanation at the end.
05. No Chinaman must figure in the story.
06. No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right.
07. The detective himself must not commit the crime.
08. The detective is bound to declare any clues which he may discover.
09. The "sidekick" of the detective, the Watson, must not conceal from the reader any thoughts which pass through his mind: his intelligence must be slightly, but very slightly, below that of the average reader.
10. Twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them.

Might fail at 4, depending on how charitable you want to be to the OS shenanigans, and the mother/daughter switcheroo might fall afoul of 10- does it count if the villain has to take lengths to conceal the deception, and the twist is signposted? Oh, and Moe's actually pretty smart, so technically it fails 9.

The intent of the rules, though, is that the mystery should be "fair"- a sufficiently attentive and thoughtful audience should be given enough information to figure out who did it and how, before the detective tells them. I think it's fair by the spirit if not necessarily the letter of the law.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


No one spelled it out all at once, but people in this thread picked up on pretty much every salient point.

devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer

Autonomous Monster posted:

Let's check!


Might fail at 4, depending on how charitable you want to be to the OS shenanigans, and the mother/daughter switcheroo might fall afoul of 10- does it count if the villain has to take lengths to conceal the deception, and the twist is signposted? Oh, and Moe's actually pretty smart, so technically it fails 9.

The intent of the rules, though, is that the mystery should be "fair"- a sufficiently attentive and thoughtful audience should be given enough information to figure out who did it and how, before the detective tells them. I think it's fair by the spirit if not necessarily the letter of the law.

No. 4 is about not making up how something works for the sake of fooling the audience. The OS stuff works just like real software does, so I don't think it breaks that rule.

No. 9 depends on how you define smart. Moe has a lot of talents but there's a lot of stuff she's not perceptive about. For this mystery at least, she fills the sidekick role.

No. 10 has that "duly prepared" part that sort of lets this one off the hook.

I don't really pay too much attention to the mechanics of the mystery but it seemed pretty solid to me.

Myriad Truths
Oct 13, 2012


That was quite clever, I'm very impressed. A little unsure if that was the last episode or not. It doesn't feel like there's anything left to do really other than wrap things up with Saikawa and Moe, but I don't know if that can fill an episode. I'd be a little surprised if Shiki actually gets caught, though, given how much of a head start she has.

My one complaint with the mystery is its use of split personalities, which ultimately didn't contribute anything concrete to the culprit's motives. From a mystery perspective I'm glad it didn't, since it's a little dissatisfying, but as a story it didn't seem like there was any reason to include split personalities.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


Magata had a lot of weird character traits that didn't directly affect the mystery. The story was just as much a character study as it was a mystery, anyway.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Shape Shift With Me


In the story's favor I think it approaches Shiki's actions and personality traits from a strictly philosophical view, rather than from a psychological one. Her "multiple personalities" is treated as an existential problem (how can a human live a life in which they don't compromise their innate potentials?) rather than as an abnormal psychology problem (does she really have a split in her psyche?).

Centzon Totochtin
Jan 2, 2009


I guess no one else bothered to watch episode 11 but I enjoyed it a lot and thought it wrapped up the series well.

devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer

I've been way busy and haven't, but this show rules.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



oh good, it's over and i can marathon it!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA



I saw the last episode - and I have to say, I really liked this show. It's a slow-burn, and I felt I appreciated it more when I got to sit back and think about it, but I really, really liked it.

brainwrinkle
Oct 18, 2009

What's going on in here?


Buglord

Obligatory post gloating that my pregnancy theory was correct.

I liked this show a lot too. I wish the direction was a bit more interesting, but the plot and characters and themes were all neat.

Dan7el
Dec 7, 2008



In my estimation, Moe and Souhei were more or less on par with each other. Rather than her being a side-kick, I'd consider her a co-detective. I don't know if there's much difference, but her not being a side-kick reduces the impact of breaking rule #9, at least in my estimation. Granted, she was a bit behind Souhei in the final uncovering, but she was also an integral part of his overall investigation (Moe, what's 2^16th power, etc.).

Also, Magata is loving nuts, so perhaps the multiple personality thing didn't do much for what actually happened, other than to demonstrate she's a complete loving crazy person. I think the biggest idea I got out of the conversations she had was her perspective on death.

Another great part was Souhei actually meeting Magata in person and becoming obviously disillusioned with her via his conversations with this complete fruitcake. He lost his obvious infatuation with her as they continued to talk. Also, who would want to have a relationship with a woman who has historically murdered everyone she "loves""

Magata's personality disorder was a red-herring in solving the mystery other than perhaps showing how far she'd actually go. The 0xFFFF was important.

I really wish my theory that the director's wife did the murders was true. That way I could gloat here. Alas....(I will never make a good detective).

(Even though this is from a previous episode, I'll spoil it just in case)
I don't fully comprehend how Magata got out of the room though. I'm guessing that she made a mad dash for the elevator when the lights went out and the security camera recordings were fixed to overwrite themselves during that moment. Did she program the elevator to be ready and waiting for her at that moment? All those people were standing there, so she had to be incredibly acrobatic and perhaps lucky to get by with what she did.

devtesla
Jan 2, 2012




Grimey Drawer

Okay yea that was really good. I feel kind of sick but that was amazing.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3


College Slice

This was the murder mystery I've been waiting on probably many many months now after the severe disappointment of some of the previous aired stuff. I feel oddly enough that this series feels like a mini series more than a regular TV anime, like a movie they expanded.

So good. The procedural and confrontation reminded me a little of Danganronpa and I hope there's more stuff out there like this.

e: Two things stand out for me as being "awesome", the whole 10 minute stretch of 100% understandable reasonable English that I'm sure drove a lot of Japanese viewers nuts and everything regarding the Unix distro and programming terminology that as far as I can tell is 100% on point.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Dec 23, 2015

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Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


Raenir Salazar posted:

This was the murder mystery I've been waiting on probably many many months now after the severe disappointment of some of the previous aired stuff. I feel oddly enough that this series feels like a mini series more than a regular TV anime, like a movie they expanded.

So good. The procedural and confrontation reminded me a little of Danganronpa and I hope there's more stuff out there like this.

e: Two things stand out for me as being "awesome", the whole 10 minute stretch of 100% understandable reasonable English that I'm sure drove a lot of Japanese viewers nuts and everything regarding the Unix distro and programming terminology that as far as I can tell is 100% on point.

Author was a programmer so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of his mysteries used programming in some way.

e. Turns out I was right, according to wikipedia.

quote:

Mori's writings are called "rikei mystery," which roughly translates into "science mystery." This is most likely because Mori uses his experience as a research scientist and weaves some kind of a science- or math-related problem into the story (for example, several math puzzles were presented in Mathematical Goodbye). However, Mori says that he is reluctant to label his novels that way, and he goes on to question what is really meant when people say "science".[16]

In addition, Mori's works, especially The Perfect Insider, is often criticized for the overuse of computer jargons. He responds that it is perfectly natural for people with some background knowledge to have a better understanding than others. According to Mori, computer jargons are not much different from proper nouns, like the names of celebrities or fashion brands, in the sense that they are in most cases just there as ornament that serves to create a particular mood.

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