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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


So, any bets at this point whether Magata is going to be (in Ace Attorney terms) culprit, victim, client or witness? Or prosecutor?

I feel like the AI theory is going to be a red herring. I mean this isn't happening in the far future, the original murders happened in 2000, didn't it? It feels a bit too grounded for the scifi theory to be true. Mind you I also thought that about Dangan Ronpa.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Oct 10, 2015

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


The Devil Tesla posted:

Hexadesmals or base 16 numbers are written out using 0-9 and then a, b, c, d, e, f. The F stands for 16.

F is 15.

My theory on the title is that it's a binary conversion to hex. 1111 = 15 in binary = F. If we ever see something involving four true/false questions, then I'll feel more sure about this.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


A character being pretentious and arrogant doesn't mean the show is.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


The guy who's doing the screenplay just did Gatchaman Crowds Insight, it's pretty obvious that we aren't meant to take Saikawa seriously.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Welp.

I guess we have our murder. So far lots of apparent alibis, huh.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Or I guess the fact that none of them acted might turn out to be a plot point later.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


My theory right now is that some kind of switcharoo took place and our 'Magata' is in fact Magata's sister all along. This would connect to Moe observing that she looked young for her age, and to her being flustered at Moe's "who are you" question. Or maybe we are in a The Prestige sort of situation.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Sakurazuka posted:

Given all the talk about the younger sister looking older than the doctor, I'd be very surprised if it turned out that the person in the room was who she was supposed to be.

Yeah, I'm feeling confident about my sibling swap theory. I'm not sure how that would help solve the mystery though. I suppose this establishes a motive, especially for the removal of the limbs (since it means there no fingerprints)? Like, maybe 'Magata' cracking under Moe's interrogation is what caused the murder.

Thinking about it, the theory that Red Magic was infected by a virus would work well with the point that Saikawa's lab was also infected prior to them setting off. Maybe the background to this is that Moe set off someone's alarm bells, they hacked Saikawa's system to dig for info, and then suddenly Saikawa and Moe's (totally coincidental, but suspiciously timed) visiting the island made them panic and think that our heroes were on to them, thus necessitating the murder.


Also, gently caress, avoid reddit like the plague on this. There's people posting novel spoilers, I managed to avoid reading any, but still, geez people.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Oct 23, 2015

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


ViggyNash posted:


A bit of speculation: The main reason to kill the director was to stop him getting off the island and alerting the police. If the helicopter ends up being sabotaged as well, that would confirm my theory. But I'll ask the same thing I asked in episode 2: Why the theatrics? Why chop off Magata's limbs and dress her up, and why stab the director through the neck with multiple swords/large knives, and leave them there? Assuming it's not spectacle for spectacle's sake, it's either a scare tactic to cause something else to happen, or it's symbolic somehow.

My main suspect is still the sister. I think the explanation for why these things are the case is that it is to form the misleading impression that this was a symbolic or insane murder when the reasoning is actually cold and calculating. The director and Magata both had to die because they knew too much, Magata had to be dismembered to remove identifying fingerprint info, the director is killed in that way to suggest that the killer was already on the island when the sister arrived and so to prevent the false motive that the killer is trying to keep them from getting to the police.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Demicol posted:

I think it's too early to try and theorize about the killer. There's not much information and barely any of the side characters have been developed.

I bet they are going to go into the room the next episode now that they know the killer isn't in there, which might reveal some clues.

It's NEVER TOO EARLY.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Enh, at least it isn't offered as a solution to anything. It's just another complication to the puzzle.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


It seems to be me that if we are to take this multiple personality stuff at face value, then we just conclude that the woman Moe was talking to was not the Magata Shiki personality, since she said both that only Magata Shiki would murder her parents, and yet refused to answer why.

I also wonder if there is a correspondence between colours and Shiki's personalities.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Sakurazuka posted:

I'm not even sure what end-game the killer is working towards by actively stopping them from calling the police, unless they're planning on killing everyone and hoping somehow nobody comes to investigate, it's inevitably going to happen at some point. I guess some evidence they still need time to dispose of?

I think my explanation is that the radio thing is a red herring. It muddies the water by stopping people from looking into why the director HAD to die, by giving people the easy explanation that this was to prevent the radio from being used. Alternatively there might be a third murder that needs to be committed and so the killer needs to buy time.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Mad thought:

Is the aperture that is too small to fit an adult human large enough to fit the dismembered corpse of Magata Shiki? If the answer is yes, then there's a solution to the locked room puzzle right there. The murder didn't happen in the locked room, rather the body was put in there afterwards. The arms and legs were cut off so that they would fit.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Kytrarewn posted:

Wouldn't her shoulders and hips be the widest points of her body, not her arms/legs?
Hmm, rewatching episode 3, the mail slot's dimensions are 250 mm x 250mm x 350 mm. Average female human shoulder width is 395mm, but the victim 'seemed young'. So I don't think shoulder length causes issues. But the length of the torso might be a problem, especially including the head.

Rewatching episode 3 also raises a question: There's a moment where one of the scientist goes "you tell me, and don't say it was a ghost", and the younger guard gets angry and goes "hey look at me and say that again!" Can we infer from that that the guard did see something that he attributed to a 'ghost', at some point?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


At this point it is impossible to distinguish whether the multiple personality thing we see in this is actually real, is a case of careful play-acting by a psychopath, or is some kind of delusion Magata Shiki has convinced herself and others of.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Kytrarewn posted:

What is the scenario that you're considering in which the Depth of the mail-slot is an issue?

Also, you have to consider the diagonal if you're considering jamming her into the thing. 2502 + 3502 = 430.12 so you could fit an average sized woman through the hole. But I'm still unclear as to how the dismemberment of the corpse affects your ability to do this.

Given that they gave a depth and volume, my understanding of the mail slot is that it's a sort of bin/air lock sort of deal with doors on both sides, so a person cannot crawl through it.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


In this episode, Saikawa continues to be an arsehole.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Saikawa is far from a neutral observer, though. I think much of what he's saying is really in the context of his own situation. He envies Magata's boldness and notoriety, he wants to place someone who he considers a personal hero on a bit of a pedestal.

Crazy theory time (if I make enough of these one must surely be right):

The point that the doll, unlike the other personalities, was not based on a dead person makes me think. What if the doll did do the murder? How it might work is, say, if the doll contained a speaker or such device, that someone might use to give Magata instructions, that she would mistake as her own thoughts through the Michuru personality. It might be significant that the doll was destroyed following the murder.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Nov 6, 2015

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


ViggyNash posted:

That's definitely part of it. He's in denial, but a weird kind of self-aware denial. He seems to see himself as a lesser human as a result, since he considers her the perfect human. I wonder why he developed such a mindset though.


I am 90% sure "doll" is meant figuratively in direct relation to the Michiru personality. It would be really weird if the show went for a convoluted mechanical solution after all of its psych talk and philosobabble. Also by Ocham's Razer it just makes more sense that Magata is just that unhinged.

I mainly find this theory appealing because it repudiates Saikawa's reasoning. It would be due to Magata's arrogant self-isolation that she becomes vulnerable to that sort of manipulation.

Also 'just unhinged' would be disappointing, I think there are clear rules being shown to us.

EDIT:

One other thing, the person Magata said was with Moe when her parents died... that's Saikawa, isn't it? Hmm, thinking that, that sequence reads very differently.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 6, 2015

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


In this episode, alcoholism is moe.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Enh this is the only show this season I feel any particular urgency to watch when a new episode appears each week.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


What if what we are looking at is actually an escape attempt that went wrong? Look at what we might have, MINUS the murder: we'd have the tech go haywire around the facility, then the door opens, then the lift moves sneakily to the roof. Shortly afterwards, the director arrives in the helicopter. If Magata hadn't died, the rest of the lab staff wouldn't have been waiting outside the door when it happened. With the system glitching out, no one would have figured out that Magata was gone for many weeks.

Does the messages on the computer make sense in this context? Magata was anticipating her departure, and thus left behind the apology and a gift.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Demicol posted:

So Magata is the AI now? I think that might explain some of the anomalies it was having.

It's a sensory deprivation chamber you bozo.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Seems like they've confirmed my sister-switcheroo theory. I assume this is where the gloves come in - Miki was the one Moe met, and she wore gloves so as to avoid leaving any trace of herself in the lab.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Sakurazuka posted:

This show seems very confused about what happens when someone gets declared not fit to stand trail/not responsible for their actions, I'm fairly sure you end up in a mental hospital not 'okay you can go now'. Sure she ends up locked in a lab but that was purely of her own volition.

Powerful people and money seems to be involved so I'm sure there were strings pulled.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


ViggyNash posted:

I meant the DOS prompt, not actual MS DOS, my bad.

My point is it's just a scripting shell that lets you do a whole lot of stuff with a computer without any of the graphical OS stuff.

No. That is not correct.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


A quick guide to modern operating systems. Apologies for any errors.

Microsoft:
MSDOS came first as a command prompt based operating system. The original windows up to 3.1 was a DOS program that gave you graphical user interface functionality. With Windows 95 the relationship was swapped over - the core operating system became windows itself, the computer booted straight into windows. A client emulator gave the user command prompt functionality.

Unix:
Unix is a software standard for operating systems that maintain some level of compatibility with each other, deriving from the original AT&T UNIX. Full compliance with the Single Unix Specification makes you an Unix. Current major unixes include Solaris (used mainly in servers), and Apple's OSX.

Some other OSes implement a related, not quite the same variant of the Unix specifications called POSIX. This includes FreeBSD, and what is commonly known as Linux, which makes them Unix-likes. (Might still be called UNIX by some people).

Unix-y OSes typically are composed of a sort of layered construction. At the core is the kernel, which is the part the directly interfaces with the hardware, and which you have to deal with if you need to install new drivers and stuff like that. Around that is the shell (for example, ksh, bash etc), which you might consider the loose equivalent of MSDOS back in the good old days. Then on top of that you run a Window Manager, which acts much like Windows 3.1. Linux strictly speaking refers to the kernel, because that's the part Linus Torvalds wrote and maintains, but is more often used to describe the whole system - including also the whole suite of little programs that give you the ability to copy files, create folders, little things like that which derive from the GNU project.

Thanks to the glories of POSIX etc, shells and kernels are interchangeable - assuming you find compatible versions, anyway. Bash is only the default shell for Linux and OSX. You could run a different one if you want.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Nov 30, 2015

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Funnily, I guess that also gives us an explanation for the sister's bad English accent, despite supposedly growing up in the US.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Do we actually have anything that links Miki to the murder of the Director? I think there's an assumption that the two murders are done by the same person that's not necessarily correct.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


This isn't the end because the killer hasn't been caught yet.

Speculation: Magata is going to either kill herself or hand herself in. The theme of this show is really about loneliness in the face of loss. Saikawa's assumption was that Magata is the sort of person who could live 15 years happily alone, who can kill everyone who knows her and just walk out into the world. But this is not the case. She was never alone. Until now.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Dec 10, 2015

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


How is this a rocks fall, everyone dies ending?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Alder posted:

If the doctor does die despite everything we've been through it feels anti-climactic and the mystery still exists but it's now impossible to solve w/o all the pieces

What? What mystery still exists?

The point of rocks fall, everyone dies is that it's a random non-sequitir. I'm speculating that a certain ending happens because it would be a thematically logical conclusion to what this show has been about?

Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 11, 2015

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Alder posted:

Like why she wanted to have relationship with her uncle? If she valued freedom so much why commit homicide to be locked up for the next 15 yrs? If she felt the downside of being completely alone why put her daughter through the same ordeal by having her kill her only family?

Because she loved him and wanted to have his child?

Because freedom was in terms of doing what she wanted without other people telling her no, so being locked up in that room (which she had built *before* the murder), she was free and happy?

Because she never felt the downside of being alone because she was never alone throughout that ordeal, it was the *daughter* that had that realisation?

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