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Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018


https://twitter.com/TomAznable/stat...8220618752?s=20

They're saying this even though the anime only cover like the first 7 volumes of the manga

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Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

Gripweed posted:

https://twitter.com/TomAznable/stat...8220618752?s=20

They're saying this even though the anime only cover like the first 7 volumes of the manga

That interview was from a year ago but even then they had another 6 or 7 volumes to play with.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

Ask me about the hate crime perpetrated against a gay black man, and how it was a real hate crime and totally not fabricated. I am well acquainted with the facts of this actual hate crime which actually took place in actuality.

Nessus posted:

Didn't minovsky particles also gently caress up EM communication in various forms? Or was that just if you deliberately goosed your reactor to do it? I was never sure if that was a retcon or if it was in there from the beginning, but it does a fair bit to let the UC still work as science marches on, even if as a retro-future: "you can't have ubiquitious mobile wireless networking or whatever because it's incompatible with the dirt-cheap totally clean energy."

that was part of the rationale for mobile suits. radar doesn't work, so guided missiles don't work.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

that was part of the rationale for mobile suits. radar doesn't work, so guided missiles don't work.

The particles also gently caress with visible light optics too iirc, so even long range gunnery with the mk 1 eyeball doesn't work. Hence why ships are getting right up next to each other.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012


Warmachine posted:

The particles also gently caress with visible light optics too iirc, so even long range gunnery with the mk 1 eyeball doesn't work. Hence why ships are getting right up next to each other.

Yeah it screws with visuals over distance, it's why you get things like the dummy balloons

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Yeah, that is part of why Newtypes are such a huge deal. It isn't just that they are good in mobile suit combat but they can snipe from absurd distances and control remote weaponry which doesn't have the same limitations. It's why Lalah/Elmeth were known as the "Ghost of Solomon" because she could destroy things out of nowhere.

The Elmeth itself was basically just a big chair and carrier for the bits which could absolutely gently caress the poo poo out of things. It's even moreso in the novel where it was equipped with nuclear missile bits so Lalah could quite literally guide nukes all but undetected to their targets and then set them off.

The sad thing about Funnels/Bits is that they kind of lost their terror fact because every protagonist and most side characters are Newtypes and so the funnels go from "impossible stealth weapon" to "just a bunch of beam guns flying around" and we never really see them used as stealth things again aside from maybe in some side manga.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:46 on May 18, 2020

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Argas posted:

I am not a scientist.

Strictly speaking fission reactors can't "go" nuclear the way an actual nuke ought to, mainly because a reactor wants to sustain a controllable reaction for power, whereas a bomb wants a runaway reaction that consumes most of the fuel before the energy of the explosion disperses it. Even making allowances to have it be a ultra-compact reactor that can be placed on a mobile suit, I imagine it'd effectively be a biggish dirty bomb than a small nuke. But AFAIK only SEED explicitly uses fission reactors.

Minovsky fusion reactors are unclear because fusion is way out of my amateur knowledge. But I imagine it'd be a large-ish explosion anyway, though not necessarily as effective or controlled as a weapon would be. In UC at least reactor explosions are more intended to showcase collateral damage than anything. I've also seen the argument that the O'neill cylinder ought to be durable enough to shrug off a reactor explosion nevermind most weapons, but UC really likes "don't loving fight in peoples' homes" as a repeated message.

08th's justification for the reactor explosion is the strangest thing to me because you'd think that if a reactor explosion was that powerful they could jury-rig a mobile suit reactor into a bomb and handwave it.

I'm hardly an expert, as I understand it the idea of fusion reactors producing massive explosions is even more ludicrous than fission ones. Basically, fusion reactors (as currently understood) need incredibly precise conditions to produce plasma (which is what's needed for the fusion reaction), and a breach in containment basically just instantly destroys that. You MIGHT get a very brief plasma flash from the breach, but you're talking dissipation within a matter of a few feet to meters or so at most.

Basically, the difference between a fusion reactor and bomb is FAR greater than the difference between a fission reactor and bomb.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


ImpAtom posted:

Yeah, that is part of why Newtypes are such a huge deal. It isn't just that they are good in mobile suit combat but they can snipe from absurd distances and control remote weaponry which doesn't have the same limitations. It's why Lalah/Elmeth were known as the "Ghost of Solomon" because she could destroy things out of nowhere.

The Elmeth itself was basically just a big chair and carrier for the bits which could absolutely gently caress the poo poo out of things. It's even moreso in the novel where it was equipped with nuclear missile bits so Lalah could quite literally guide nukes all but undetected to their targets and then set them off.

The sad thing about Funnels/Bits is that they kind of lost their terror fact because every protagonist and most side characters are Newtypes and so the funnels go from "impossible stealth weapon" to "just a bunch of beam guns flying around" and we never really see them used as stealth things again aside from maybe in some side manga.

Part of the reason we never really see them used for such extreme ranged stuff like Lalah's first deployments in the Elmeth is because apparently operating a Psychommu system at those ranges is extremely taxing, even on a Newtype of Lalah's caliber, which is why she wasn't able to just do that same thing to the White Base or the Gundam, they put limiters on it for that fight, and that seems to follow for most Newtype weapons that came afterwards, which makes sense, even more limited ones like the Zeong are still a massive force multiplier compared to a regular suit(I'm still a firm believer that if it weren't for Amuro acting as a distraction that Char probably could have done enough damage to the Federation fleet that they likely would have lost at A Baoa Qu)

HitTheTargets
Mar 3, 2006

I came here to laugh at you.


Lord Koth posted:

I'm hardly an expert, as I understand it the idea of fusion reactors producing massive explosions is even more ludicrous than fission ones. Basically, fusion reactors (as currently understood) need incredibly precise conditions to produce plasma (which is what's needed for the fusion reaction), and a breach in containment basically just instantly destroys that. You MIGHT get a very brief plasma flash from the breach, but you're talking dissipation within a matter of a few feet to meters or so at most.

Basically, the difference between a fusion reactor and bomb is FAR greater than the difference between a fission reactor and bomb.

Since the only reactor fuel that ever gets named is Helium, my assumption is that the handful of reactor explosions we see (like the one that punches a hole in Side 7) arenít caused by real physics. Instead, beam rifle hits cause the minovsky particles in the reactor to turn into mega-particles; Essentially the same thing that happens in a beam rifle to begin with, but bigger.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


HitTheTargets posted:

Since the only reactor fuel that ever gets named is Helium, my assumption is that the handful of reactor explosions we see (like the one that punches a hole in Side 7) arenít caused by real physics. Instead, beam rifle hits cause the minovsky particles in the reactor to turn into mega-particles; Essentially the same thing that happens in a beam rifle to begin with, but bigger.

Iím pretty sure this is exactly the case, which is why Amuro freaks out about trying to stab the cockpit specifically when he kills his second zaku.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas;


drrockso20 posted:

Part of the reason we never really see them used for such extreme ranged stuff like Lalah's first deployments in the Elmeth is because apparently operating a Psychommu system at those ranges is extremely taxing, even on a Newtype of Lalah's caliber, which is why she wasn't able to just do that same thing to the White Base or the Gundam, they put limiters on it for that fight, and that seems to follow for most Newtype weapons that came afterwards, which makes sense, even more limited ones like the Zeong are still a massive force multiplier compared to a regular suit(I'm still a firm believer that if it weren't for Amuro acting as a distraction that Char probably could have done enough damage to the Federation fleet that they likely would have lost at A Baoa Qu)

Victory does feature a Cyber-Newtype sniping with pinpoint precision from orbit.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



HitTheTargets posted:

Since the only reactor fuel that ever gets named is Helium, my assumption is that the handful of reactor explosions we see (like the one that punches a hole in Side 7) arenít caused by real physics. Instead, beam rifle hits cause the minovsky particles in the reactor to turn into mega-particles; Essentially the same thing that happens in a beam rifle to begin with, but bigger.

Makes sense.

It's interesting that it wasn't until 00 they went back to the weird particle well, and it wasn't until IBO that they had it as a foundational thing for all Mobile Suits and ships again.

SEED even had jammers, but it left them as a different thing than Mobile Suit power sources which didn't really tie into what made ace pilots aces which was unconnected to how the hero's suit's invincibility worked. I've talked about it before, but SEED's backstory and technology is mostly "and" instead of "Therefore", unlike the UC.

(It's also interesting how X, Wing, and of course G just took people fighting with mechs as a given. There's a lot of "Eh, it's Gundam. You know how Gundam works." to those shows around the edges, which is interesting.)

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





chiasaur11 posted:

Makes sense.

It's interesting that it wasn't until 00 they went back to the weird particle well, and it wasn't until IBO that they had it as a foundational thing for all Mobile Suits and ships again.

SEED even had jammers, but it left them as a different thing than Mobile Suit power sources which didn't really tie into what made ace pilots aces which was unconnected to how the hero's suit's invincibility worked. I've talked about it before, but SEED's backstory and technology is mostly "and" instead of "Therefore", unlike the UC.

(It's also interesting how X, Wing, and of course G just took people fighting with mechs as a given. There's a lot of "Eh, it's Gundam. You know how Gundam works." to those shows around the edges, which is interesting.)

I think X was strongly implied to be "after" the UC ended, so presumably mobile suits still use Minovsky reactors (the nuclear power plant explosion is still perplexing to me; fission reactors can't do that). For Wing, the explanation is "Look at these fuckers. Look at their uniforms. Look at how they act. Tell me these shits wouldn't think mobile suit combat was the be-all end-all."

G of course runs off high octane unleaded rule of cool. Allenby's introduction shows they have the technology to do virtual arcade fights. Trying to explain why they use Gundams instead of that is an impediment to the memes.

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



Warmachine posted:

I think X was strongly implied to be "after" the UC ended

It's more like "what if the one year war, but the absolute worst case situation happened?" The backstory is intentionally super reminscent of UC but it isn't actually the same continuity.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


chiasaur11 posted:

SEED even had jammers, but it left them as a different thing than Mobile Suit power sources which didn't really tie into what made ace pilots aces which was unconnected to how the hero's suit's invincibility worked. I've talked about it before, but SEED's backstory and technology is mostly "and" instead of "Therefore", unlike the UC.

Gundam Wing's technology is mostly "However" .

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP



watchin gundamn 0079 or whatever the 1970s one is and boy howdy this sure is very 70s anime. char seems pretty rad, like hes the first dude ive seen take a step back and reevaluate stuff when confronted by the superiority of an 11 year old with a giant robot thats been press ganged into child soldiery. too bad hes a nazi i guess

Ramadu fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 18, 2020

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Nessus posted:

Didn't minovsky particles also gently caress up EM communication in various forms? Or was that just if you deliberately goosed your reactor to do it? I was never sure if that was a retcon or if it was in there from the beginning, but it does a fair bit to let the UC still work as science marches on, even if as a retro-future: "you can't have ubiquitious mobile wireless networking or whatever because it's incompatible with the dirt-cheap totally clean energy."

It's in there from the beginning. When Char is approaching Luna II in episode 4 of the original show he asks the helmsman if they're going to be okay and the helmsman tells him that the Minovsky density is a little light but they should be fine and won't be visible on radar. Whereupon Char notes that it's strange that technology has become so advanced that it's practically archaic again, and they can be so close but not visible. Which is all that Minovksy intereference really does: mask your signature on microwave detection methods like radar. It's not an inherent quality of Minovsky use, because the density of particles in an area has to be artificially boosted to create any interference, so wireless communications will work fine the majority of the time. Which is why the White Base was able to pick up Gihren's speech on their monitors down on Earth, despite it happening on the other side of the Moon for instance. There is some implication that there are some places where battles were so fierce that Minovsky interference is perpetual, and it's something the original setting notes state is going to be a factor, but it's not something that's ever really comes up in the animation from what I recall. The best instance of it I can recall is Garma saying something that implies there's a permanent layer of Minovsky interference in the atmosphere at one point. Bases and so on apparently cloak themselves in a permanent Minovsky field as a preventative measure or something, but that might just be an after the fact explanation to explain why Luna II had one up already when Char was appraoching without stepping on other toes.

Regardless, it's also only an effect only large and/or powerful Minovsky reactors are going to cause. Mobile suits are not capable of it until Victory, because that's the first animation where people in mobile suits talk about releasing Minovsky particles. Prior to that point, it's only ships that talk about releasing them to combat densities etc. It comes off like they're storing up Minovsky particles to release all at once and that the release is just a natural by-product of the process, rather than something that has to be goosed to create.

Warmachine posted:

The particles also gently caress with visible light optics too iirc, so even long range gunnery with the mk 1 eyeball doesn't work. Hence why ships are getting right up next to each other.

No, it doesn't. I'm just going to copy/paste an effort post I made about it a few months back:

Something important to understand about Minovsky particles is that while they are omnipresent, they are omnipresent in such minor qualities that you'd never know it. Which is why they weren't discovered until centuries after long range communication had become normal. Minovsky particles can only disrupt these technologies when boosted to artificial densities by human intervention. Radar, telephones etc. work perfectly fine most of the time, and examples of them in use can be seen multiple times throughout all of Tomino's UC entries, from 0079 through Victory. If your comms or detection tech goes offline because of Minovsky interference, then you know something is up. So let's think about one of the most cited examples of dummy balloons at work: when Char launches dummy balloons of Neo Zeon's fleet to fool the Federation in to thinking he was complying with the the treaty he had signed during Char's Counterattack.

Given the above, they cannot have been observed while inside a Minovsky environment, because if there was Minovsky interference loving with the detection equipment of the Federation they'd immediately know something was up and so the cameras must have been free of Minovsky interference. Yet they were still showing a vague enough image that the Federation's observing ships were fooled in to thinking Neo Zeon were complying with the treaty. Minovsky particles don't interefere with light; UC just has cameras that cannot detect and display images at a good resolution even at at that relatively close distance in space. Which is probably why the detection range on mobile suits in gunpla manuals and stuff is always given as a few thousand meters.

This is also why laser communication i.e. light based signals, is used inside Minovsky fields during battle, and why it's never disrupted. It wouldn't be nearly so reliable if Minovsky particles futzed with light to any degree. Gundam Century, published in 1981 and with the contribution of several of the original creative staff from 0079 (including chief writers for the show Hiroyuki Hoshiyama and Kenichi Matsuzaki; who wrote 23 episodes of 0079 between them) clarified the actual purpose of Minovsky particles within the show.

Gundam Century translated by Mark Simmons posted:

The Minovsky particle itself is an elementary particle with near-zero rest mass and a positive or negative electrical charge. When arranged in a cubic lattice, these particles form an invisible field which prevents the transmission of electromagnetic waves with greater than microwave wavelengths. This reduces the accuracy of radar and makes long-distance wireless communication impossible. At high densities, Minovsky particles even disrupt the functioning of large-scale integrated circuits. Naturally, protective systems were developed to shield computers from Minovsky particle interference, but their high cost and weight meant that they couldn't be installed in missile-class precision guided weapons.

The only thing greater than microwaves is radio waves, and light has a smaller wavelength. Minovsky particles were never meant to interfere with light at high densities; they were meant to disrupt electronics, as an excuse for why missiles and other beyond visual range weaponry were no longer viable within the setting.

drrockso20 posted:

Part of the reason we never really see them used for such extreme ranged stuff like Lalah's first deployments in the Elmeth is because apparently operating a Psychommu system at those ranges is extremely taxing, even on a Newtype of Lalah's caliber, which is why she wasn't able to just do that same thing to the White Base or the Gundam, they put limiters on it for that fight, and that seems to follow for most Newtype weapons that came afterwards, which makes sense, even more limited ones like the Zeong are still a massive force multiplier compared to a regular suit(I'm still a firm believer that if it weren't for Amuro acting as a distraction that Char probably could have done enough damage to the Federation fleet that they likely would have lost at A Baoa Qu)

The pain Lalah suffers from using the funnels at long range is more because of limitations in the technology and/or lack of testing than because it's an inherent fault, going by the way Dr. Flanagan speaks after that test at Solomon. Char orders him to limit the system to visual range for the meantime to prevent Lalah experiencing pain again, but it's all framed in such a way that you could imagine more testing to create better technology would make it possible to do without pain. It's just not something followed up on, and all funnel use is within visual range after that point if I recall. Which seems like a strange decision, even from a production point of view, since you'd imagine pushing funnel use out to beyond visual range again at some point would be a good way to raise the stakes during a show.

tsob fucked around with this message at 13:44 on May 18, 2020

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas;


Again, Victory does include BVR Newtype sniping, although it's simply done with a very large gun rather than funnels.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Darth Walrus posted:

Again, Victory does include BVR Newtype sniping, although it's simply done with a very large gun rather than funnels.

You're right. I should clarify that the reason I find it strange that it isn't a case with funnels in particular is because funnels are so small that they're undetectable even when there's no Minovsky interference. Which is why Lalah was the "ghost" of Solomon. No-one at Solomon could figure out how they were being hit, or detect any kind of enemy. She was a totaly mystery, beyond the "la la" sound her presence created to some of the staff. Which just made her more mysterious, rather than less. The Gottrlatan is immediately detected if I recall, making it a much different feeling.

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP



what even are minovsky particles

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas;


tsob posted:

You're right. I should clarify that the reason I find it strange that it isn't a case with funnels in particular is because funnels are so small that they're undetectable even when there's no Minovsky interference. Which is why Lalah was the "ghost" of Solomon. No-one at Solomon could figure out how they were being hit, or detect any kind of enemy. She was a totaly mystery, beyond the "la la" sound her presence created to some of the staff. Which just made her more mysterious, rather than less. The Gottrlatan is immediately detected if I recall, making it a much different feeling.

It's the Zanneck, which is only detectable by Newtypes like Uso and Shakti due to being a highly mobile unit up in orbit. It's definitely played for a certain kind of horror.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

Ask me about the hate crime perpetrated against a gay black man, and how it was a real hate crime and totally not fabricated. I am well acquainted with the facts of this actual hate crime which actually took place in actuality.

stealth bits are gone because it is all newtypes, all the time now. they aren't stealthy when used against other newtypes.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Darth Walrus posted:

It's the Zanneck, which is only detectable by Newtypes like Uso and Shakti due to being a highly mobile unit up in orbit. It's definitely played for a certain kind of horror.

I stand corrected; thanks for the clarification. I need to get around to re-watching Victory at some point.

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



Ramadu posted:

what even are minovsky particles

Particles discovered by Minovsky

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP



Droyer posted:

Particles discovered by Minovsky

is he a gundam?

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



No he's dead

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

Ask me about the hate crime perpetrated against a gay black man, and how it was a real hate crime and totally not fabricated. I am well acquainted with the facts of this actual hate crime which actually took place in actuality.

ah, the ghost gundam then. that was a crossbone variant, i think.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Ramadu posted:

is he a gundam?

You're thinking of Setsuna.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Warmachine posted:

You're thinking of Setsuna.

He might be thinking of the Aeolia Schenburg, who is somewhat of a Minovsky analogue (as well as a Harry Seldon analogue), and did actually discover his universe's analogue of the Minovsky particle as well as at least being ultimately responsible for the concept of Gundams in his setting. I wouldn't be surprised if Schenburg cosplayed a Gundam at some point.

HitTheTargets
Mar 3, 2006

I came here to laugh at you.


Ramadu posted:

what even are minovsky particles

Magnets.

Tythas
Oct 3, 2013

Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars




Recently just finished my first watch through of IBO S1 and I am really enjoying it, Especially how brutal the combat is

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





tsob posted:

He might be thinking of the Aeolia Schenburg, who is somewhat of a Minovsky analogue (as well as a Harry Seldon analogue), and did actually discover his universe's analogue of the Minovsky particle as well as at least being ultimately responsible for the concept of Gundams in his setting. I wouldn't be surprised if Schenburg cosplayed a Gundam at some point.

Yeah, but he wasn't actually a Gundam.

Unlike Setsuna.

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP



Warmachine posted:

You're thinking of Setsuna.

No I really don't know I've only watched unicorn and iron blooded orphans and like 7 episodes of the original Gundam

Idk anything about it. I saw some Gundam music vid on cartoon network like 15 years ago and just wild beat communications occasionally pops into my smooth brain

Tythas
Oct 3, 2013

Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars




Ramadu posted:

No I really don't know I've only watched unicorn and iron blooded orphans and like 7 episodes of the original Gundam

Idk anything about it. I saw some Gundam music vid on cartoon network like 15 years ago and just wild beat communications occasionally pops into my smooth brain

Oh so you saw the Gundam Wing opening

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Ramadu posted:

No I really don't know I've only watched unicorn and iron blooded orphans and like 7 episodes of the original Gundam

Idk anything about it. I saw some Gundam music vid on cartoon network like 15 years ago and just wild beat communications occasionally pops into my smooth brain

I'm looking forward to more of your adventures.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

This is the dance
of our people



Darth Walrus posted:

It's the Zanneck, which is only detectable by Newtypes like Uso and Shakti due to being a highly mobile unit up in orbit. It's definitely played for a certain kind of horror.

Zannecks are complete fuckers in SRW Alpha Gaiden since their rifles have 10-range or something ridiculous, and have a decent amount of health too. One of the end stages was for Turn A Gundam, and you had 10 turns to destroy Gym and the Turn X. Gym and his troops are at the other end of the map, but you can't rush him down because Zannecks waiting to snipe your team down. You have to use several turns to circle around the map and their attack range, while also dealing with rear end in a top hat reinforcements like Guin in a Psycho Gundam.

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012



amigolupus posted:

Zannecks are complete fuckers in SRW Alpha Gaiden since their rifles have 10-range or something ridiculous, and have a decent amount of health too. One of the end stages was for Turn A Gundam, and you had 10 turns to destroy Gym and the Turn X. Gym and his troops are at the other end of the map, but you can't rush him down because Zannecks waiting to snipe your team down. You have to use several turns to circle around the map and their attack range, while also dealing with rear end in a top hat reinforcements like Guin in a Psycho Gundam.

As a huge Turn A fan, the fact that extended canon has Guin in the novelization pilot a goddamn Psycho Gundam and call it the Black Doll is the wildest thing. It just feels completely out of his character to actually do something like that himself as opposed to trying to be In Charge at all times.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado

gourdcaptain posted:

As a huge Turn A fan, the fact that extended canon has Guin in the novelization pilot a goddamn Psycho Gundam and call it the Black Doll is the wildest thing. It just feels completely out of his character to actually do something like that himself as opposed to trying to be In Charge at all times.

Then you may appreciate Super Robot Wars Z where Guin shows up ultra late in the game with an army of "Black Dolls" (Psycho Gundams, Destroy Gundams, and Overdevils from Overman King Gainer), but he never actually pilots any of them.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018


I wish they had gone with the first design for Gundam The End

https://twitter.com/gakky1967/statu...9717580802?s=20

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Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP



theres an entire episode about a lake on earth moving 500 mile and they need this lake to get salt


what in the gently caress??? is this britain occupied india

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