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Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

Stairmaster posted:

Is gundam ZZ a must-watch?

It explains a lot about a character in Unicorn but outside of that not really.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Stairmaster posted:

Is gundam ZZ a must-watch?

Sort of yes, sort of no.

It is referenced a whole lot in side material, particularly Gundam Unicorn, but basically all you need to know from it is "they tried cloning Newtypes, the cloned Newtypes were of a girl called Ple/Puru" and "Haman died."

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




drrockso20 posted:

Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

Les Enfants Terrible!

(amuro clones)

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Fun Shoe

Stairmaster posted:

Is gundam ZZ a must-watch?

yes

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



drrockso20 posted:

Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

They really didn't need to. Even post OYW the Federation had a massive massive numbers advantage for the most part and also access to Artificial Newtype technology.

The thing about Ple is that she... just isn't really that useful. You're effectively strapping a ten year old into a war machine and hoping their newtype potential overcomes them being ten years old and in most cases it didn't. It was just that Glemy was a complete shitbag and also needed whatever advantage he could get.

In theory they could have tried to mass produce Amuro Ray but Amuro Ray's body not married to his mind is just not going to be that useful and if you try to replicate Amuro's personality it'll probably backfire on you. Even attempts to just make a Bio-Computer using Amuro Ray's data inevitably backfired.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:15 on May 29, 2020

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

drrockso20 posted:

Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

UC cloning seems to be at low volume, it doesn’t seem like they could clone in large enough numbers to make up for large numeric shortfalls. The Murasame labs in Zeta were probably near the peak of the technology.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ImpAtom posted:

They really didn't need to. Even post OYW the Federation had a massive massive numbers advantage for the most part and also access to Artificial Newtype technology.

The thing about Ple is that she... just isn't really that useful. You're effectively strapping a ten year old into a war machine and hoping their newtype potential overcomes them being ten years old and in most cases it didn't. It was just that Glemy was a complete shitbag and also needed whatever advantage he could get.

In theory they could have tried to mass produce Amuro Ray but Amuro Ray's body not married to his mind is just not going to be that useful and if you try to replicate Amuro's personality it'll probably backfire on you. Even attempts to just make a Bio-Computer using Amuro Ray's data inevitably backfired.

Also, well... the Federation didn't like having one Amuro around. They needed him, but they tried to shove him in the background whenever possible. Same with Bright. Same with all their other heroes.

Zeon loved having someone for the recruitment posters. The Federation, as a collective, preferred when battles were won by the faceless grunts.

Burns
May 10, 2008


The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Burns posted:

The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.

D.O.M.E. agrees!

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

Ask me about the hate crime perpetrated against a gay black man, and how it was a real hate crime and totally not fabricated. I am well acquainted with the facts of this actual hate crime which actually took place in actuality.

the federation only had one amuro, but zeon had like 50 chars and that number only goes up with each new oyw story.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas;


ImpAtom posted:

They really didn't need to. Even post OYW the Federation had a massive massive numbers advantage for the most part and also access to Artificial Newtype technology.

The thing about Ple is that she... just isn't really that useful. You're effectively strapping a ten year old into a war machine and hoping their newtype potential overcomes them being ten years old and in most cases it didn't. It was just that Glemy was a complete shitbag and also needed whatever advantage he could get.

In theory they could have tried to mass produce Amuro Ray but Amuro Ray's body not married to his mind is just not going to be that useful and if you try to replicate Amuro's personality it'll probably backfire on you. Even attempts to just make a Bio-Computer using Amuro Ray's data inevitably backfired.

Glemmy did iron out most of the kinks with the later Ple clones, though. From Ple II onwards, they were frighteningly effective weapons, and having an entire army of up-gunned Qubeleys let him punch way above his weight. Yes, they were wiped out, but only after taking (and destroying) the most broken, overpowered bullshit Haman's loyalists could throw at them.

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



Burns posted:

The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.

Newtypes were good in the early show when they still had thematic relevance.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Darth Walrus posted:

Glemmy did iron out most of the kinks with the later Ple clones, though. From Ple II onwards, they were frighteningly effective weapons, and having an entire army of up-gunned Qubeleys let him punch way above his weight. Yes, they were wiped out, but only after taking (and destroying) the most broken, overpowered bullshit Haman's loyalists could throw at them.

See, I would say the opposite. The Qubeleys showed themselves to be effective but not particularly more effective, and certainly not the Ultimate Newtype Warriors Glemey claimed them to be. They gave him a quick on-demand army that was threatening but not threatening enough to necessarily justify the idea of a clone army as a regular thing. At the end of the day giving one good pilot a Geymalk or Quin Mantha probably is both cheaper and more effective than a dozen Ple clone. You are limited to needing strong Newtype pilots for things like that but ZZ Gundam kind of emphasizes the idea that in Newtype warfare a singular good pilot is a game changer.

Droyer posted:

Newtypes were good in the early show when they still had thematic relevance.

Yeah, Newtypes are most interesting when they are focused on weird psychic poo poo and thematic relevance instead of when they show how big your power level is.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Narrative at least seemed like it wanted to do something with Unicorn's dumb "newtypes have god hacks now" ending, for about five minutes before it forgot it was supposed to be about anything at all.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 29, 2020

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Burns posted:

The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.
It gets stupid later but I think the underlying idea of reaching towards a future of communication and understanding is important to the recipe, so to speak; without it, you basically just have Mil-SF Setting #79.

Newtypes also justify the ultimate truth of the entire franchise, at least in UC's setting. What they ought to do is try and start some kind of UC2 or UC Cinematic Universe since they've kind of thoroughly plowed out the timeline.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Lemon-Lime posted:

Narrative at least seemed like it wanted to do something with Unicorn's dumb "newtypes have god hacks now" ending, for about five minutes before it forgot it was supposed to be about anything at all.

What it "wanted to do" was establish why everyone wants a pocket Newtype again, which is already well trod territory and leaves Narrative with being giant robot DBZ.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Narrative sucked real bad and I'm still mad about it!

Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006



The main protagonist and antagonist of Narrative are just awful. The MC has no agency whatsoever and the villain is just an evil guy with a stupid design.

It couldn't even really be bothered to give us some cool new mechs, since the narrative was okay at best and the Sinanju stein already existed. Everything else was just a rehash of stuff.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Darth Walrus posted:

From Ple II onwards, they were frighteningly effective weapons, and having an entire army of up-gunned Qubeleys let him punch way above his weight. Yes, they were wiped out

Only a few of them are killed battling Chara Soon, and a half dozen or more of their fates are left ambiguous.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Shinjobi posted:

Narrative sucked real bad and I'm still mad about it!

Narrative sucked real bad and I still can't bring myself to care terribly much about it.

Where Unicorn was a bunch of interesting ideas and side characters orbiting a really dull lead, Narrative is nothing happening around a somehow even duller lead.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018


The ship battle inside Texas Colony in the Gundam novel kicks assk

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


I just noticed that G Gen Cross Rays, along with Super Robot Wars T, V and X are on sale on the Japanese Nintendo eShop. All four have English subs so far as I know, so I'm tempted to get one. I've never played any of that type of tactical RPG though; so is there one of them that's better than the others in terms of systems? Or even just series available, story, interactions, alternate routes etc?

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




tsob posted:

I just noticed that G Gen Cross Rays, along with Super Robot Wars T, V and X are on sale on the Japanese Nintendo eShop. All four have English subs so far as I know, so I'm tempted to get one. I've never played any of that type of tactical RPG though; so is there one of them that's better than the others in terms of systems? Or even just series available, story, interactions, alternate routes etc?

So the G Gen series is entirely focused on Gundam and is going to have the most widely available set of Gundams. I also feel it is overall a much weaker series than Super Robot Wars since the only stages are basically just playing through the plots of SEED, Wing, IBO etc with the end goal just replaying stages on higher difficulties to grind out more suits.

Super Robot Wars, by contrast, is focused on having its own story by basically mashing a bunch of series into a single world and playing a game that meshes their stories together along with its own original plot. It has a ton of route splits, secrets and actually functions as a game rather than a Gundam suit collection simulator.

V, X, and T form a loose trilogy in that order though all are stand-alone games. They have some minor mechanical updates in each title, and the translation is better as they go on, but honestly I'd pick them based on which has the series you're interested in. For Gundam, all feature Z, ZZ, CCA, and Crossbones. V also features the 00 movie and SEED Destiny, X has G-Reco, F91, and Wing and T features G Gundam. If you like other mecha series they have some pretty varied casts with V having Evangelion and Full Metal Panic!, X having TTGL and Code Geass, T having VOTOMs and Cowboy Bebop etc.

Personally I really liked X the most though common consensus is that they rank as V > T > X. If you do want to play V or X I'd play them before T just because T actually finally introduced one of the most amazing QOL changes SRW ever made (the combat preview actually shows if you or the enemy is projected to be shot down instead of forcing you to do complex math or feel it out with your gut) and its hard to go back

Zore fucked around with this message at 15:50 on May 30, 2020

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

tsob posted:

I just noticed that G Gen Cross Rays, along with Super Robot Wars T, V and X are on sale on the Japanese Nintendo eShop. All four have English subs so far as I know, so I'm tempted to get one. I've never played any of that type of tactical RPG though; so is there one of them that's better than the others in terms of systems? Or even just series available, story, interactions, alternate routes etc?

Come visit the SRW thread for more information on SRW and G Generation games.

Also double check that the Japanese version has English subs; my understanding was that there was an Asian version through Singapore and/or HK that does but the Japan release was Japanese language only.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Zore posted:

So the G Gen series is entirely focused on Gundam and is going to have the most widely available set of Gundams. I also feel it is overall a much weaker series than Super Robot Wars since the only stages are basically just playing through the plots of SEED, Wing, IBO etc with the end goal just replaying stages on higher difficulties to grind out more suits.

Super Robot Wars, by contrast, is focused on having its own story by basically mashing a bunch of series into a single world and playing a game that meshes their stories together along with its own original plot. It has a ton of route splits, secrets and actually functions as a game rather than a Gundam suit collection simulator.

V, X, and T form a loose trilogy in that order though all are stand-alone games. They have some minor mechanical updates in each title, and the translation is better as they go on, but honestly I'd pick them based on which has the series you're interested in. For Gundam, all feature Z, ZZ, CCA, and Crossbones. V also features the 00 movie and SEED Destiny, X has G-Reco, F91, and Wing and T features G Gundam. If you like other mecha series they have some pretty varied casts with V having Evangelion and Full Metal Panic!, X having TTGL and Code Geass, T having VOTOMs and Cowboy Bebop etc.

Personally I really liked X the most though common consensus is that they rank as V > T > X. If you do want to play V or X I'd play them before T just because T actually finally introduced one of the most amazing QOL changes SRW ever made (the combat preview actually shows if you or the enemy is projected to be shot down instead of forcing you to do complex math or feel it out with your gut) and its hard to go back

V also had Unicorn and Hathaway's Flash

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus


Midjack posted:

Come visit the SRW thread for more information on SRW and G Generation games.

Also double check that the Japanese version has English subs; my understanding was that there was an Asian version through Singapore and/or HK that does but the Japan release was Japanese language only.

This is correct, I'm not sure about G Generation but Super Robot Wars only has the (actually really well done) english translation on the SE Asian version, not the Japanese version. You can buy it through the Hong Kong eshop.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




X has Wataru and Nadia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbJnb4C4PNE

T has Magic Knight Rayearth and Captain Harlock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1rp3BP-uqs

Personally I rank them T>V>X, but they all have something to love.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



T's also got the "decade long trio", where it's a plot point that Amuro, Bright, Ryoma from Getter, and Koji from Mazinger were all on the White Base during the OYW, and pretty much constantly give each other poo poo about the old days. It's pretty fun and plays off the way ZZ and CCA are actually part of the min plot in T rather than just being things that happened in the past.

It's also interesting how different Char is in the three games. He's dead before the game starts in V, is isekai'd in the middle of CCA, and is in his post-Zeta funk at the start of T.

Which also plays into very different Char arcs in X and T. X's Char is Char at his worst, working with any other villains just to get a shot at Amuro again.

Meanwhile, Char in T is secretly a good guy.

To be clear, he's still Char, which means he's ruining people's lives like crazy, hates any form of responsibility, and mainly is motivated by spite, but the big reveal at the end of his villain arc was how he was plotting against the real villains.

(Partially so people will stop asking him to do things.)

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drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Worth mentioning that with Char being dead in V, leads to them doing some interesting things with Full Frontal in that game

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