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Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

Stairmaster posted:

Is gundam ZZ a must-watch?

It explains a lot about a character in Unicorn but outside of that not really.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Stairmaster posted:

Is gundam ZZ a must-watch?

Sort of yes, sort of no.

It is referenced a whole lot in side material, particularly Gundam Unicorn, but basically all you need to know from it is "they tried cloning Newtypes, the cloned Newtypes were of a girl called Ple/Puru" and "Haman died."

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl and FOURTEEN KARAT GOLD!!!

Warning: SU Season 3 Spoilers


Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




drrockso20 posted:

Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

Les Enfants Terrible!

(amuro clones)

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Fun Shoe

Stairmaster posted:

Is gundam ZZ a must-watch?

yes

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



drrockso20 posted:

Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

They really didn't need to. Even post OYW the Federation had a massive massive numbers advantage for the most part and also access to Artificial Newtype technology.

The thing about Ple is that she... just isn't really that useful. You're effectively strapping a ten year old into a war machine and hoping their newtype potential overcomes them being ten years old and in most cases it didn't. It was just that Glemy was a complete shitbag and also needed whatever advantage he could get.

In theory they could have tried to mass produce Amuro Ray but Amuro Ray's body not married to his mind is just not going to be that useful and if you try to replicate Amuro's personality it'll probably backfire on you. Even attempts to just make a Bio-Computer using Amuro Ray's data inevitably backfired.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:15 on May 29, 2020

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

drrockso20 posted:

Honestly kinda surprising that the Federation never tried their own take on the cloning project, seems like it would resolve the near constant manpower problems they have after the OYW

UC cloning seems to be at low volume, it doesn’t seem like they could clone in large enough numbers to make up for large numeric shortfalls. The Murasame labs in Zeta were probably near the peak of the technology.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ImpAtom posted:

They really didn't need to. Even post OYW the Federation had a massive massive numbers advantage for the most part and also access to Artificial Newtype technology.

The thing about Ple is that she... just isn't really that useful. You're effectively strapping a ten year old into a war machine and hoping their newtype potential overcomes them being ten years old and in most cases it didn't. It was just that Glemy was a complete shitbag and also needed whatever advantage he could get.

In theory they could have tried to mass produce Amuro Ray but Amuro Ray's body not married to his mind is just not going to be that useful and if you try to replicate Amuro's personality it'll probably backfire on you. Even attempts to just make a Bio-Computer using Amuro Ray's data inevitably backfired.

Also, well... the Federation didn't like having one Amuro around. They needed him, but they tried to shove him in the background whenever possible. Same with Bright. Same with all their other heroes.

Zeon loved having someone for the recruitment posters. The Federation, as a collective, preferred when battles were won by the faceless grunts.

Burns
May 10, 2008


The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Burns posted:

The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.

D.O.M.E. agrees!

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

Ask me about the hate crime perpetrated against a gay black man, and how it was a real hate crime and totally not fabricated. I am well acquainted with the facts of this actual hate crime which actually took place in actuality.

the federation only had one amuro, but zeon had like 50 chars and that number only goes up with each new oyw story.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas;


ImpAtom posted:

They really didn't need to. Even post OYW the Federation had a massive massive numbers advantage for the most part and also access to Artificial Newtype technology.

The thing about Ple is that she... just isn't really that useful. You're effectively strapping a ten year old into a war machine and hoping their newtype potential overcomes them being ten years old and in most cases it didn't. It was just that Glemy was a complete shitbag and also needed whatever advantage he could get.

In theory they could have tried to mass produce Amuro Ray but Amuro Ray's body not married to his mind is just not going to be that useful and if you try to replicate Amuro's personality it'll probably backfire on you. Even attempts to just make a Bio-Computer using Amuro Ray's data inevitably backfired.

Glemmy did iron out most of the kinks with the later Ple clones, though. From Ple II onwards, they were frighteningly effective weapons, and having an entire army of up-gunned Qubeleys let him punch way above his weight. Yes, they were wiped out, but only after taking (and destroying) the most broken, overpowered bullshit Haman's loyalists could throw at them.

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



Burns posted:

The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.

Newtypes were good in the early show when they still had thematic relevance.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Darth Walrus posted:

Glemmy did iron out most of the kinks with the later Ple clones, though. From Ple II onwards, they were frighteningly effective weapons, and having an entire army of up-gunned Qubeleys let him punch way above his weight. Yes, they were wiped out, but only after taking (and destroying) the most broken, overpowered bullshit Haman's loyalists could throw at them.

See, I would say the opposite. The Qubeleys showed themselves to be effective but not particularly more effective, and certainly not the Ultimate Newtype Warriors Glemey claimed them to be. They gave him a quick on-demand army that was threatening but not threatening enough to necessarily justify the idea of a clone army as a regular thing. At the end of the day giving one good pilot a Geymalk or Quin Mantha probably is both cheaper and more effective than a dozen Ple clone. You are limited to needing strong Newtype pilots for things like that but ZZ Gundam kind of emphasizes the idea that in Newtype warfare a singular good pilot is a game changer.

Droyer posted:

Newtypes were good in the early show when they still had thematic relevance.

Yeah, Newtypes are most interesting when they are focused on weird psychic poo poo and thematic relevance instead of when they show how big your power level is.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Narrative at least seemed like it wanted to do something with Unicorn's dumb "newtypes have god hacks now" ending, for about five minutes before it forgot it was supposed to be about anything at all.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 29, 2020

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Burns posted:

The whole Newtype thing is probably the worst part of UC gundam.
It gets stupid later but I think the underlying idea of reaching towards a future of communication and understanding is important to the recipe, so to speak; without it, you basically just have Mil-SF Setting #79.

Newtypes also justify the ultimate truth of the entire franchise, at least in UC's setting. What they ought to do is try and start some kind of UC2 or UC Cinematic Universe since they've kind of thoroughly plowed out the timeline.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Lemon-Lime posted:

Narrative at least seemed like it wanted to do something with Unicorn's dumb "newtypes have god hacks now" ending, for about five minutes before it forgot it was supposed to be about anything at all.

What it "wanted to do" was establish why everyone wants a pocket Newtype again, which is already well trod territory and leaves Narrative with being giant robot DBZ.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Narrative sucked real bad and I'm still mad about it!

Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006



The main protagonist and antagonist of Narrative are just awful. The MC has no agency whatsoever and the villain is just an evil guy with a stupid design.

It couldn't even really be bothered to give us some cool new mechs, since the narrative was okay at best and the Sinanju stein already existed. Everything else was just a rehash of stuff.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Darth Walrus posted:

From Ple II onwards, they were frighteningly effective weapons, and having an entire army of up-gunned Qubeleys let him punch way above his weight. Yes, they were wiped out

Only a few of them are killed battling Chara Soon, and a half dozen or more of their fates are left ambiguous.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Shinjobi posted:

Narrative sucked real bad and I'm still mad about it!

Narrative sucked real bad and I still can't bring myself to care terribly much about it.

Where Unicorn was a bunch of interesting ideas and side characters orbiting a really dull lead, Narrative is nothing happening around a somehow even duller lead.

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Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018


The ship battle inside Texas Colony in the Gundam novel kicks assk

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