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SA Gunpla formally invites you all to join us on our discord https://discord.gg/vkqJ32W
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Jun 24, 2020 17:28
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RE: Rise coming back on July 9, start taking bets on whether or not there'll still be a forum around to discuss it on.
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Jun 25, 2020 22:37
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I think assuming Char planned Garma's death out is kind of not backed up at all. Char saw a chance and took it without thinking about the consequences. He was pulled off active service which would have made his plan of "kill all the Zabis" a lot harder but when he saw the chance to cause a Zabi death without having to pull the trigger himself he leapt for it.
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Jun 26, 2020 00:04
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"Char always thinks 3 steps ahead" was his characterization for most of the early show though, and was what made him a formidable enemy to white base. Honestly kinda weird how that got kinda dropped after a bit Also if this forum is still around in July I'll be pretty shocked
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Jun 26, 2020 00:13
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If Jeffrey buys or steals the forums we will all know the feeling of a miracle, the "Lowtax's Shock"
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Jun 26, 2020 00:17
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Nessus posted:If Jeffrey buys or steals the forums we will all know the feeling of a miracle, the "Lowtax's Shock"
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Jun 26, 2020 00:24
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are there any behind the scene looks at zeta gundam? cause I read somewhere tomino kind of hated it at the time.
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Jun 26, 2020 01:02
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ninjewtsu posted:"Char always thinks 3 steps ahead" was his characterization for most of the early show though, and was what made him a formidable enemy to white base. Honestly kinda weird how that got kinda dropped after a bit That is kind of the point though. Char does think ahead but when it comes to his Zabi-focused rageboner he loses that aspect of himself.It is pretty much the defining feature of his character that he has an absurd amount of potential but it always gets squandered by his small-minded focus on other things. Like even in CCA he could absolutely have won without trouble but he wanted to have his angry manbaby duel with Amuro and in doing so singlehandedly wrecked his own chances at success. A Char who was willing to put aside his own desires to do what he feels is the greater good would be a tremendous force. He just isn't able to. The closest was when he became Quattro and even that wasn't so much putting his desires away as running from responsibility.
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Jun 26, 2020 01:15
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the angry manbaby duel was his entire goal.
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Jun 26, 2020 01:16
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Stairmaster posted:the angry manbaby duel was his entire goal. It wasn't his entire goal but it was his personal goal which was the issue because he had it at the same time as he was having his Big Fancy Zeon Goal but his own weird petty desire compromised every aspect of it. Char wasn't dropping Axis on Earth only to have a duel with Amuro but the fact he wanted a duel with Amuro meant the Axis part was inherently flawed because otherwise Char couldn't duel Amuro.
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Jun 26, 2020 01:20
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Char could've probably done a diversion by himself and drawn Amuro away from Axis because that dang Char's always up to something, but then Char wouldn't have gotten a chance to have a showdown at Axis and I think he'd want that more than a slightly better chance at winning. Then again, the Axis Shock was so far out of everyone's predictions.
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Jun 26, 2020 01:23
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Does char ever have the same "always one step ahead" layered plans after garma dies?
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Jun 26, 2020 01:40
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ImpAtom posted:I think assuming Char planned Garma's death out is kind of not backed up at all. Char thinks about how to use Garma in episode 6, musing that Garma's failure to destroy the Gundam will prove to Dozle that it wasn't just incompetence on Char's part that he had repeatedly failed to do so, especially since Garma has greater resources, but that Garma might die in battle facing the Gundam. Then he thinks that he could step in and save Garma like he'd originally planned, after which the scene transitions to Amuro waiting in the Gundam without finishing Char's line of thought. The context creates an obvious "or, I could..." though, which is left hanging. Char doesn't actually try to set Garma up in any way for two or three episodes after that, and the two plans he enacts to set Garma up are quite opportunistic (interfering with the contacts on a radio transmitter on the Gaw when Garma goes out to fight the Gundam while telling the Gaw to hang back, and telling Garma the Gundam/White Base are in a different place than they are so Garma presents his back to them). Char also helps Icelina with her plan to get revenge for Garma after his death while thinking that whether Icelina destroys the Gundam or not, he will come out looking good, because he took responsibility for Garma's death and showed loyalty to Dozle by going out to help even though he wasn't officially under Garma's command (he was still under Dozle at the time). His plan during the first section of the show seems to have been to capture and/or destroy the Gundam and White Base, and use that to ascend the ranks and gain greater access to the Zabis. The fact his plans to engineer Garma's death were all things arranged on the spot and that afterwards he thinks he's going to look good either way, before going to drown his sorrows when he's pulled from duty and demoted as per Degwin's orders certainly suggest that he was just unable to resist the opportunity to kill a Zabi and didn't really think beyond it the way he had been up to that point though. ninjewtsu posted:"Char always thinks 3 steps ahead" was his characterization for most of the early show though, and was what made him a formidable enemy to white base. Honestly kinda weird how that got kinda dropped after a bit I'd say it was less "is always 3 steps ahead of everyone else" and more that he was just really good at reading people and making the most of the opportunities they presented. He could definitely plan out a long game, but his early successes were more because he was good at taking advantage of things as they happened too. It was still kind of dropped after he returned in episode 26 regardless, but I always took that as a sign that his personal investment was blinding him and making him more a fool in the same way he thought of Garma and others at the start of the show. Also, that the shift in priorities at that point (he talks about wanting personal revenge on the Gundam as soon as he returns in episode 26) meant that his long game was out the window, and he was operating a lot more on opportunity and chance; which will eventually bite anyone in the rear end. He could afford mistakes with the Zabi plan, because he had long term plans for all situations that he had spent ages setting out for himself, and a road-map in his head of how to operate after years of planning. He didn't have that with the Gundam though. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 01:43
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ImpAtom posted:That is kind of the point though. Notably the SRW series shows this kind of Char multiple times Also next time the OYW appears in a SRW game they should have Garma get resurrected by one of the villains of one of the other shows(definitely one of the things Dr Hell would pull off) to make things even messier in the later parts of the war
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Jun 26, 2020 04:03
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3 posted:RE: Rise coming back on July 9, start taking bets on whether or not there'll still be a forum around to discuss it on. Looks like we live, pay up  .
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Jun 26, 2020 05:47
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tsob posted:I'd say it was less "is always 3 steps ahead of everyone else" and more that he was just really good at reading people and making the most of the opportunities they presented. He could definitely plan out a long game, but his early successes were more because he was good at taking advantage of things as they happened too. It was still kind of dropped after he returned in episode 26 regardless, but I always took that as a sign that his personal investment was blinding him and making him more a fool in the same way he thought of Garma and others at the start of the show. Also, that the shift in priorities at that point (he talks about wanting personal revenge on the Gundam as soon as he returns in episode 26) meant that his long game was out the window, and he was operating a lot more on opportunity and chance; which will eventually bite anyone in the rear end. He could afford mistakes with the Zabi plan, because he had long term plans for all situations that he had spent ages setting out for himself, and a road-map in his head of how to operate after years of planning. He didn't have that with the Gundam though. does "he was just really good at reading people and making the most of the opportunities they presented" ever come back for him then? when in his life is he ever again not being blinded and made a fool due to personal investment iirc quattro isn't all that great a pilot
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Jun 26, 2020 06:27
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I'm pretty sure the only reason quattro exists is because they thought chars voice actor sounded super loving cool. He's such a major mover and shaker of events in 0079 but in zeta he's basically demoted to piccolo in the majin buu saga levels of relevance. They should have atleast given him a real Gundam to pilot imo.
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Jun 26, 2020 06:36
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ninjewtsu posted:does "he was just really good at reading people and making the most of the opportunities they presented" ever come back for him then? when in his life is he ever again not being blinded and made a fool due to personal investment Quattro takes on Haman and Sirocco, at once, in a suit a generation behind theirs, and not only survives, but actually achieves his objective (make sure the colony laser fires) while they failed. Not many pilots could have done that.
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Jun 26, 2020 07:15
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Nessus posted:If Jeffrey buys or steals the forums we will all know the feeling of a miracle, the "Lowtax's Shock" 
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Jun 26, 2020 07:46
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Argas posted:Char could've probably done a diversion by himself and drawn Amuro away from Axis because that dang Char's always up to something, but then Char wouldn't have gotten a chance to have a showdown at Axis and I think he'd want that more than a slightly better chance at winning. Char basically did this exact thing in the movie! Amuro tossed him in the dumpster in the end, but Char tied him up for so long that Londo Bell failed to stop Axis. Char actually achieved his ultimate goal and had won the war despite losing the battle. Except, of course, that Amuro produced a literal miracle that no one could have anticipated or prepared for.
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Jun 26, 2020 09:33
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ninjewtsu posted:does "he was just really good at reading people and making the most of the opportunities they presented" ever come back for him then? when in his life is he ever again not being blinded and made a fool due to personal investment Quattro is an excellent pilot. The only thing really holding him back is that the Hyaku Shiki is effectively a quick slap together mecha. It's not a bad machine by any means but it's technically inferior to the Gundam Mk.II and the Gundam Mk.II was finding itself pressed as things went on. The fact that Quattro did as well as he did is largely due to his own skill especially considering machines like the Quebely and The O were absurd machines which were custom-built for Newtypes and were frankly more powerful than anything that actually hit the field until the end of the second Neo Zeon War (and even then both machines were still more than capable of keeping up.)
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Jun 26, 2020 10:08
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Ok but did the whole always 3 steps ahead/extremely good reading-situations-and-making-good-opportunistic-plays thing ever come back into play?
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Jun 26, 2020 10:21
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Didn't they announce this years ago? How is it taking them this long to make a bad cell phone game? https://twitter.com/g_tekketsu/status/1276425124434939910?s=20
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Jun 26, 2020 12:57
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ninjewtsu posted:does "he was just really good at reading people and making the most of the opportunities they presented" ever come back for him then? when in his life is he ever again not being blinded and made a fool due to personal investment I would say he has some measure of it again in Char's Counterattack, yes. He's able to manipulate the Federation in to agreeing to a treaty that makes them trusting of him, and gives him access to Axis for his plan for a start and knows how to fool them in to believing that he's sticking to the agreed terms. That's really more long term planning "3 steps ahead" Char though, rather than "opportunistic"; still, I would still say it relies on knowing how to read people and how they'll react so I would include it regardless. He knows the treaty and signs that his fleet is disarming will make the Federation lax for instance, and that he can use that to launch an attack on Luna II to get the nuclear missiles he needs to fill Axis, and make it even more deadly when dropped. He knows how Bright will act at the end of the film too, when the Ra Calium launches nuclear missiles at Axis, for another instance. His entire relationship with Quess is basically him taking advantage of an opportunity that drops in to his lap as well, manipulating her through a rough understanding of what she wants/needs to do whatever he says; though he does admit to Amuro at the end his understanding of her was quite superficial, and that he never actually thought about why she was so willing to follow him. I wouldn't say he's ever quite as opportunistic again, and that really, Char's Counterattack is really more of a demonstration of his ability to put together a good plan with enough time, even on relatively small resources, but it does demonstrate some good understanding of and ability to manipulate others at the very least. ImpAtom posted:Quattro is an excellent pilot. The only thing really holding him back is that the Hyaku Shiki is effectively a quick slap together mecha. It's not a bad machine by any means but it's technically inferior to the Gundam Mk.II and the Gundam Mk.II was finding itself pressed as things went on. What makes the Hyaku Shiki inferior to the Mk II out of interest? I'd have thought that between the beam resistant coating (small measure that it is), and the wing binders increasing it's manoeuvrability somewhat that it'd be the superior machine. Even if not by a huge amount. chiasaur11 posted:Quattro takes on Haman and Sirocco, at once, in a suit a generation behind theirs, and not only survives, but actually achieves his objective (make sure the colony laser fires) while they failed. I wouldn't say he ever took on both at once, honestly. Haman mostly followed behind Scirocco and Quattro, hanging back and taking the occasional pot-shot while they were duking it out. She was there, certainly, but she was more of an observer than an actual participant. Even when she did participate though, she was mostly trying to push Char in to agreeing to side with her, and not actually fighting him. At least, not while Scirocco was around. Once the two of them leave the Colony Laser again while Scirocco is gone to fight with Kamille, she does press him in to service again, but they actually fight more seriously after that point, with Haman trying to actually shoot and kill Char. I do think Char did well to take advantage of the situation he was in, using the destroyed remains of the ship to create an environmental weapon he could get out of that situation with, and that that's an impressive show of quick thinking and piloting skill on it's own though.
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Jun 26, 2020 14:32
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Kanos posted:Char basically did this exact thing in the movie! Amuro tossed him in the dumpster in the end, but Char tied him up for so long that Londo Bell failed to stop Axis. Char actually achieved his ultimate goal and had won the war despite losing the battle. Except, of course, that Amuro produced a literal miracle that no one could have anticipated or prepared for. Char keeping Amuro preoccupied was not really the reason Londo Bell failed to stop Axis. Londo Bell failed to stop Axis because Char had a backup on top of a backup that wouldn't have changed even if Amuro was left alone because even if the inside detonation plan succeeded without a hitch (which it did), no one expected that the explosion would have slowed down the rear Axis piece and that the rear piece would have also been sufficient to wreck Earth on its own. Bright ends up getting completely outplayed by Char and explicitly says this, and Char seemed to fully expect this too as he gloated to Amuro that Londo Bell's plan ended up backfiring. Between this and the feint with the fake fleet, Char probably thought that he put so much distance between himself and Londo Bell that the chances of his plan failing were pretty remote. Bright firing nukes was unexpected but there wasn’t a lot Amuro or anyone could have really done after that, and Char might have been aware of this. But with all that said, Char was mad embarrassed and salty after losing to Amuro MechaX fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jun 26, 2020 |
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Jun 26, 2020 14:51
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https://twitter.com/TheDoriru/status/1276281673307566080
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Jun 27, 2020 01:15
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tsob posted:What makes the Hyaku Shiki inferior to the Mk II out of interest? I'd have thought that between the beam resistant coating (small measure that it is), and the wing binders increasing it's manoeuvrability somewhat that it'd be the superior machine. Even if not by a huge amount. The Hyaku Shiki is basically a souped-up Rick Dias with a movable frame in terms of specs. The movable frame is a significant upgrade (it was the big thing about the Gundam Mk.II after all) but beyond that not a lot has changed besides its general shape. The wing binders do provide extra mobility but even then the Gundam Mk.II outpaces it. Pretty much all of the Hyaku Shiki's weaponry is just the exact same as the Rick Dias as well. The beam coating is fairly minimal and coming during one of the periods where "don't get hit" was eclipsing "have armor" as a defense method due to the ever-increasing number of beam weapons and at least in the show it doesn't show any particularly meaningfully huge effect. (To the point where I don't even recall if it's mentioned in show at all.) Errata says that it basically was a failed prototype for a Zeta-style transforming mecha that they quickly repurposed using Gundam Mk.II data to get something out. The Delta Plus in Unicorn is more of what the Hyaku Shiki should have been. Basically Char's piloting what amounts to a slapped together Super Rick Dias for a good chunk of the show. Meanwhile the Gundam Mk.II was a solid machine and the Super Gundam pretty much eclipses the Hyaku Shiki in all ways. Even in ZZ Gundam the Hyaku Shiki is basically the runt of the Gundam Team litter. (Which isn't helped that instead of Quattro it's usually loving Beecha piloting it.) IIRC they even mention that the Hyaku Shiki is kind of a wild horse and the only reason it performs as well as it does is because Quattro can keep control of it due to his piloting skills. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jun 27, 2020 |
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Jun 27, 2020 01:40
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Look, if Char had guns like Quattro, there's no way he'd be hiding them under sleeves.
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Jun 27, 2020 01:56
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https://twitter.com/powerwalkwithme/status/1276610373576126464?s=19
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Jun 27, 2020 06:24
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You know, if The Winner is just offbrand Danger Zone by Kenny Loggins, then Men of Destiny is offbrand Holding out for a Hero by Bonnie Tyler.
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Jun 27, 2020 16:50
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man, something went wrong like a third of the way through Gundam Thunderbolt 13
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Jun 27, 2020 16:57
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what if char had taken up the name Qum Bajeena
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Jun 27, 2020 17:13
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https://twitter.com/yy_108109/status/1271324959302774784?s=20
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Jun 27, 2020 19:19
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Gripweed posted:man, something went wrong like a third of the way through Gundam Thunderbolt 13 Are you talking about the art style? The artist developed a medical condition and had to shift to a less complex art style for his health.
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Jun 27, 2020 20:25
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Yeah aren't his hands basically hosed at this point?
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Jun 27, 2020 20:32
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Taintrunner posted:Are you talking about the art style? The artist developed a medical condition and had to shift to a less complex art style for his health. Aw jeez. That sucks
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Jun 27, 2020 20:41
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Arcsquad12 posted:Yeah aren't his hands basically hosed at this point? He's left handed and he developed tenosynovitis (which the internet says is a painful condition affecting the tendons on the thumb side of your wrist due to swelling there) in his left hand, which required that he draw for a while with his non-dominant hand. I believe he's using his left hand again, but he's decided to make his drawing less detailed to stop aggravating his hand, as it was the only way he could continue.
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Jun 27, 2020 20:51
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Popping back in to say my Gundam UC first watchathon continues. I've watched through 0079, Zeta, bailed on ZZ part way through, Char's Counterattack, and now I'm 4 episodes into the Unicorn OVA. Unicorn is like someone took the worst parts of Ghost in the Shell and Evangelion and smushed them together. CubeTheory fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 08:13
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CubeTheory posted:now I'm 4 episodes into the Unicorn OVA. well it's all downhill from there!
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Jun 28, 2020 09:41
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You don't watch Unicorn for the plot, more for the visuals and mecha porn
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Jun 28, 2020 10:31
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