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Droyer posted:This is very sweet Yeah, I remember reading that when it came out. It makes the already Best Eyecatch In Gundam even better.
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Feb 21, 2021 02:39
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chiasaur11 posted:I've thought a lot about that too. I mean, Sayla has zero desire for revenge despite literally being a combat pilot on the opposite side of the war from the people who wronged her family. Zeon ace Sayla would probably be a genuine friend to Garma and Icelina with zero ulterior motives beyond preserving her secret identity... assuming Garma met icelina before he met her, if you catch my drift.
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Feb 21, 2021 02:43
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Droyer posted:This is very sweet That’s really neat, they looked like they’d been done with a lot of care. 
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Feb 21, 2021 03:07
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chiasaur11 posted:I've thought a lot about that too. This version of Sayla I could see doing the whole Char routine not because she wants to kill the Zabi Family like Casval did, but instead through a familial obligation that she try and reclaim control over Zeon to redirect it towards her father's ideals, meanwhile Casval is basically doing Quattro Bajeena a couple years early just trying to shirk the responsibilities that being Casval Deikun would bring Indeed I'm picturing things culminating in a Zeon civil war between Gihren and a faction jointly led by Garma and Artesia(Sayla having revealed her true identity to Garma and proposed a political marriage to unite Deikun and Zabi together) with the White Base getting involved in this mess
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Feb 21, 2021 04:09
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sayla definitely had the capability to fill char's role of mysterious subversive ace pilot, but i'm not sure what possible circumstances would actually make her do so. she never really gave a poo poo about any of the stuff that drove char.
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Feb 21, 2021 04:38
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:sayla definitely had the capability to fill char's role of mysterious subversive ace pilot, but i'm not sure what possible circumstances would actually make her do so. she never really gave a poo poo about any of the stuff that drove char. I can see a fair number of circumstances that would make her a mysterious ace pilot minus the subversiveness, because that's basically what she ended up as in the original show.
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Feb 21, 2021 04:44
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if sayla had started piloting in space instead of after the white base came to earth she probably would have left amuro in the dust. she took to it crazy fast and started developing newtype abilities almost immediately after they returned to space.
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Feb 21, 2021 05:08
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:if sayla had started piloting in space instead of after the white base came to earth she probably would have left amuro in the dust. she took to it crazy fast and started developing newtype abilities almost immediately after they returned to space. I mean, Amuro's first flight, he killed two Zaku piloted by experienced opponents. Sayla's first flight nearly wrecked the Gundam and Amuro had to bail her out in the Guncannon. What's more, she's not the obsessive weirdo Amuro is, and that really helped out in the early days. I can't remember the exact numbers, but Amuro spent something like multiple days training in the Gundam in the first week. He pretty much spent all his time in the Gundam, which Sayla isn't naturally inclined to, and he didn't have any other duties (like Sayla's skill at the helm and in the medbay) that would keep him from just logging hour after hour. Amuro's basically had every single thing that could break his way go his way when it comes to Gundam piloting. By contrast, Sayla's "just" a natural.
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Feb 21, 2021 05:44
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thats because the writers were kind of sexist with it
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Feb 21, 2021 05:52
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Darth Walrus posted:I can see a fair number of circumstances that would make her a mysterious ace pilot minus the subversiveness, because that's basically what she ended up as in the original show. I can even see some subversiveness, especially given the Zabi family dynamics. (Zeon politics getting Ramba Ral killed probably won't sit well with her.) If we're looking at a big hidden agenda, just finding out what happened with her father's likely to be part of it. Just joining for Zeon doesn't fit with her dropping out of the war later, and her trying to play neutral before the war came to her, but tracking down what happened with presumed dead family is very much in her wheelhouse.
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Feb 21, 2021 08:10
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, Sayla has zero desire for revenge despite literally being a combat pilot on the opposite side of the war from the people who wronged her family. Zeon ace Sayla would probably be a genuine friend to Garma and Icelina with zero ulterior motives beyond preserving her secret identity... assuming Garma met icelina before he met her, if you catch my drift. I can't really see Sayla and Garma as romantic interests, at least, based off what little we see of them in the show. Icelina and Sayla are quite different, as are Garma and Amuro. While I can kind of see Garma having an attraction to the more down to Earth and pragmatic Sayla instead of a sheltered romantic like Icelina, I can't really see Sayla having any attraction to the preening pretty boy more concerned about his perception than about the war like Garma. He seems like the kind of person she'd rebuff, in much the same way she looked down on early show Kai and had no interest in Sleggar. That said, if Sayla was the mysterious Zeon ace I can kind of see Garma being that story's equivalent of Amuro as a somewhat arrogant and sheltered child who has to quickly grow up once the war really comes to them and a more mature Garma having a relationship with Sayla once he lets go of the desire to impress his men and his family over any actual investment in the war. Darth Walrus posted:I can see a fair number of circumstances that would make her a mysterious ace pilot minus the subversiveness, because that's basically what she ended up as in the original show. If she's the same person she was in the original show? I can't. The only reason she joins the war at all is because it literally broke down her front door and forced her to engage with it to survive, and even then she seemed to be in it entirely to track down her brother until fairly late in the show. At which point she's in it just to help her found family, and bounces out of the conflict entirely afterwards because she realized it's better to move on with your life. Which, I know is often pinned on the fact her voice actress left during Zeta's production, but even at the end of the original novels she does basically the same thing. She realizes that her brother is dead and Char is all that lives now, so while some of the rest of the White Base crew join Zeon, and Kai stays with the Federation because he hates Char, Sayla chooses to return to Earth and live a normal life there instead. Her VA definitely was otherwise occupied during Zeta's production, since she did very little work around that time period, but I'm not convinced that's why Sayla isn't a major part of Zeta personally. As is, if Sayla joins Zeon to find her brother or something then she'll meet him right at the start of the story and have no further reason to stay with Zeon or continue fighting. She'd either defect or simply go AWOL because she has no personal investment in the war. If you make some minor changes to her personality as others have suggested to give her a bit more investment in taking back Zeon from the Zabis or something though, I can certainly see her sticking out the conflict. gimme the GOD drat candy posted:if sayla had started piloting in space instead of after the white base came to earth she probably would have left amuro in the dust. she took to it crazy fast and started developing newtype abilities almost immediately after they returned to space. We have no idea when Sayla started piloting in reality because when she takes out the Gundam to try and talk to Ramba Ral she mentions that she has put some hours in on the simulator too and thought it'd have prepared her more for the realities of combat. She may have only started doing so recently, or she may have been doing so since just after they left Side 7. Either way, she required at least some time in simulators and some live combat experience before she really started to excel as a combatant and you could say the same about any of the other pilots on White Base bar Amuro. And even that's kind of doubtful, since Amuro mostly stumbled through his first combat experience and survived due to the machine's physical toughness, rather than any skill or talent. You could put it down to sexism I suppose, but at the end of the day she far outstripped multiple other male pilots in an inferior machine so it seems less like sexism and more like narrative contrivance. Amuro was the main character, and she was one of the primary supporting characters so while she was better than any other supporting character as a pilot, she wasn't as good as the main character. chiasaur11 posted:I mean, Amuro's first flight, he killed two Zaku piloted by experienced opponents. Sayla's first flight nearly wrecked the Gundam and Amuro had to bail her out in the Guncannon. There were no other mobile suit pilots experienced in fighting other mobile suits at the time, to be fair, since as of the first episode of 0079, it had never happened before given that no-one but Zeon possessed mobile suits up to that point. Some side stories have since retconned that, but they appear to be confined to theaters on Earth so it's unlikely Slender, Denim or Jean had any experience even putting aside that they all come off as quite young and hotheaded, as opposed to the older guerilla soldiers in Ramba's troop who are more likely to have both experience in combat and experience in mobile suit combat specifically. Also, yeah, when Amuro is talking to a Federation officer in episode 7 of the TV show he details that he has 55 hours of mobile suit experience at that point, with 2 hours of direct combat, 18 hours in a simulator and 35 hours of general training (probably using the suit itself in training, rather than a simulator). Which is a lot by that point, since it's 2.33 days of training in maybe 1 or 2 weeks, given how ambiguous the time frame is. Databooks, timelines etc. place it as about a week, but it could have been intended to be a bit more. It's a ridiculous amount regardless, especially when you consider that he did actually have other duties because Bright had tasked him with maintaining the Gundam as well as piloting it, so he was the suit's main mechanic so far as we see, with some shots of him working on repairing or doing upkeep on the suit throughout the first half of the show. He also spent free time examining the suit, and you get some sequences of him examining the learning computer or explaining it to the other characters, taking data from captured enemy units to run simulations against etc. He was a really dedicated pilot, and actively wants to prove himself better than Char for much of the show. Which I don't think it's really fair to put down to things breaking his way, since he went out of his way to ensure it to a large degree and that is not a mindset we see Sayla display, so it's not really any wonder she's not as good a pilot as him.
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Feb 21, 2021 14:21
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chiasaur11 posted:I mean, Amuro's first flight, he killed two Zaku piloted by experienced opponents. Sayla's first flight nearly wrecked the Gundam and Amuro had to bail her out in the Guncannon. I believe in his first week, Amuro had logged 55 hours in the simulator something very close to it. And he was also responsible for maintaining it and basically, as you said, lived in the Gundam. If what he said to Fraw is true, it's likely he hadn't slept since Side 7 as well. I don't know if he means he hasn't been sleeping period, or if he couldn't sleep after almost dying in the drop to earth. tsob posted:Which, I know is often pinned on the fact her voice actress left during Zeta's production, but even at the end of the original novels she does basically the same thing. She realizes that her brother is dead and Char is all that lives now, so while some of the rest of the White Base crew join Zeon, and Kai stays with the Federation because he hates Char, Sayla chooses to return to Earth and live a normal life there instead. Her VA definitely was otherwise occupied during Zeta's production, since she did very little work around that time period, but I'm not convinced that's why Sayla isn't a major part of Zeta personally. Going through with the entry to Hong Kong recently my friend pointed out how almost all of Beltorchika's scenes make more sense if she's Sayla. Not all of them, clearly, but during a time in the show where the WB crew were all being reintroduced, she's missing, Amuro's very quick to form a relationship with her, which seems odd from both their perspectives, he also thinks her pink pilot suit is a reference to Sayla's pink federation uniform. Though personally I see that as a stretch. The fact she integrates really quickly among the cast also gave him the impression that yeah, she's just Sayla but they're throwing in some quick excuses. I don't think Sayla would have demanded that Kamille give Amuro the Mark II though. That seems very not-her. Then again, I also got into a discussion with him over the entire Amuro moment and whether or not the confusion around it is intentional. First, Amuro seems frustrated he's been passed over as the Mark II's pilot and that Hayato and Char are rubbing it in his face, then, when he tries to go after Katz in a Nemo, Hayato tells him off, saying he hasn't touched an MS for years and he'd be useless. Then at the end of the episode, Char is wondering why Amuro didn't come out to fight, if he didn't feel it burning in his blood. So I was like "This episode is confusing, is the issue Amuro doesn't have the will to fight, or that he isn't being allowed to fight?" Especially since the episode after, Amuro pilots the Rick Dias with a lot of skill. He posited that it was more Char was assuming Amuro was struggling to want to fight, but Hayato simply believed he didn't have the skill to. Similar to how Katz assumes Amuro's grown soft in luxury, when actually it's that he's basically imprisoned by the Federation. Then we have Amuro's freak out himself. Where he's clearly feeling passed up, an seizes up and starts shaking against the wall. I thought it would have made more sense if that was PTSD for him, while my friend was like "Nah that just seems like self-worth issues. He's always struggled with feelings like that from the first series, it makes sense that he's essentially been dragged back to war, and then being told he's not needed, it was the same with Fraw, he got spurred on to take action because it was implied he wasn't doing what he could and that feeling drove him more." Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 14:26
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Onmi posted:Going through with the entry to Hong Kong recently my friend pointed out how almost all of Beltorchika's scenes make more sense if she's Sayla. Not all of them, clearly, but during a time in the show where the WB crew were all being reintroduced, she's missing, Amuro's very quick to form a relationship with her, which seems odd from both their perspectives, he also thinks her pink pilot suit is a reference to Sayla's pink federation uniform. Though personally I see that as a stretch. The fact she integrates really quickly among the cast also gave him the impression that yeah, she's just Sayla but they're throwing in some quick excuses. I don't think it's that odd that's reintroduced around about that time, since I'm pretty sure it's around that period we're introduced to Wong, Liou & Co etc. too. Which Beltorchika is just an extension of, really. I do think that if Sayla's voice actress was around that she'd probably have appeared at least briefly there too, with some spoken lines, but I don't think that guarantees that she and Beltorchika would be one and the same character and that this version of Sayla would have played a large part in the story. I think it more likely she'd have only had a brief part in passing, more akin to Mirai, Fraw or Kai than to Hayato or Bright, honestly. I'm pretty sure multiple other characters point out how odd it is that Amuro's relationship with Beltorchika is moving so fast in the show too, and note that he seems to be trying to use the relationship to paper over trauma; though it's been long enough I could be wrong on that.
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Feb 22, 2021 02:11
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Onmi posted:Going through with the entry to Hong Kong recently my friend pointed out how almost all of Beltorchika's scenes make more sense if she's Sayla. Not all of them, clearly, but during a time in the show where the WB crew were all being reintroduced, she's missing, Amuro's very quick to form a relationship with her, which seems odd from both their perspectives, he also thinks her pink pilot suit is a reference to Sayla's pink federation uniform. Though personally I see that as a stretch. The fact she integrates really quickly among the cast also gave him the impression that yeah, she's just Sayla but they're throwing in some quick excuses. I think "Beltorchika was a replacement Sayla" is a pretty defensible theory, especially because she's much more on top of things in her first episode or two, before she starts showing her issues. (It's Gundam. If you don't have issues, you have subscriptions.) Starting out with her as a capable pilot with an instant bond with Amuro who's got all this insight into Char is a very Sayla role, one that makes a slightly jarring shift to her later role as obsessive and clingy over Amuro. As for Amuro, I assume it's a mix of things. It's pretty clear he does have PTSD, but he's also got self-worth from being told he's not needed. (And from his performance with the cargo plane and the Rick Dias, it's clear he hasn't lost a step. Sure, he hasn't been flying a Mobile Suit, but he has been training new recruits in the sims as his job. Helps keep that edge sharp.)
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Feb 22, 2021 04:13
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Let's not forget Sayla's very important role in ZZ to appear at the very end to deus ex machina Judeau's sister. SHE WASN'T TOTALLY GONE
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Feb 22, 2021 17:50
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Let's not forget Sayla's very important role in ZZ to appear at the very end to deus ex machina Judeau's sister. SHE WASN'T TOTALLY GONE They didn't even explain that. Leina was left in a building, which blows up, and 20 episodes later it's just like "She's alive with Sayla"
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Feb 22, 2021 22:57
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“Alive with sayla” is the shadow realm of gundam
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Feb 23, 2021 00:55
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Sayla has the ability to teleport. She just doesn't use it because she kind of is sick of both Char and Amuro.
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Feb 23, 2021 01:07
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ImpAtom posted:Sayla has the ability to teleport. She just doesn't use it because she kind of is sick of both Char and Amuro. I'm pretty sure Kai is the one who can teleport. After all, as a freelance journalist, he can appear anywhere, anytime. Even the Vatican. (Unless you're saying that Sayla's the one giving him a ride everywhere, but their relationship seems a little too casual for that.)
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Feb 23, 2021 01:14
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chiasaur11 posted:I'm pretty sure Kai is the one who can teleport. I'd watch or read something that was all about Kai doing action-journalist stuff post OYW in a heartbeat. If this exists, point me at it.
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Feb 23, 2021 15:22
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https://twitter.com/torushome/status/1363058319460425728?s=21
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Feb 24, 2021 17:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJ7oqYarVE The 2019 one.
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Feb 24, 2021 18:28
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It's funny after being a gundam fan for so long I never watched turn a. Got the blu rays a while ago and finally sat down and stared watching. I already had mg's of the Turn A and Turn X, but still never got around to it. I'm 7 episodes in right now. I really like Loran and how the beginning is just the two sides posturing, yet trying to avoid a conflict. It really does feel like both sides have legitimate gripes which is difficult to always pull off in Gundam. Also the animation is fantastic. I did not like G-reco at all, but I can see somewhat similar themes in this, but it just seems so far that it's paced much better and I understand the characters more. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 17:55
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Monaghan posted:It's funny after being a gundam fan for so long I never watched turn a. Got the blu rays a while ago and finally sat down and stared watching. I already had mg's of the Turn A and Turn X, but still never got around to it. I'm 7 episodes in right now. Turn A has the benefit of getting a full 50 episodes, where Reco had half that. So it does have more to work with. I think other goons have mentioned it, but there's a bit of compression in the last stretch where we could have used a couple more episodes to flesh things out.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:07
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Monaghan posted:I did not like G-reco at all *Looks at your avatar, confused*
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Feb 26, 2021 01:17
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Rewatched origin III and I've come to the conclusion that char did the dawn rebellion solely because he thought it'd be dope to pilot a mecha in a war.
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Feb 26, 2021 05:21
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Stairmaster posted:Rewatched origin III and I've come to the conclusion that char did the dawn rebellion solely because he thought it'd be dope to pilot a mecha in a war. I mean if true it'd be very relatable.
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Feb 26, 2021 05:36
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Stairmaster posted:Rewatched origin III and I've come to the conclusion that char did the dawn rebellion solely because he thought it'd be dope to pilot a mecha in a war. It would be interesting to see an AU version of UC where Char doesn't goad Garma into doing the rebellion(say for example his plan to swap places with the real Char fail and Zeon Intelligence succeeds in assassinating him so he and Garma never meet), and things inch along more like the intended plans of the Zabi's, cause it's pretty clear they would eventually want to openly break away from the Federation anyways but the Dawn Rebellion massively pushed forward those plans, imagine how things would go if they had another decade or two of planning and preparation before declaring war, possibly having gotten more of the other Sides aligned with them
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Feb 26, 2021 09:11
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I feel like there’s plenty of Zeon worship in Gundam already, we don’t need to have a masturbatory space Nazi show where they completely shithouse the Federation in the first twenty minutes.
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Feb 26, 2021 09:20
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drrockso20 posted:It would be interesting to see an AU version of UC where Char doesn't goad Garma into doing the rebellion(say for example his plan to swap places with the real Char fail and Zeon Intelligence succeeds in assassinating him so he and Garma never meet), and things inch along more like the intended plans of the Zabi's, cause it's pretty clear they would eventually want to openly break away from the Federation anyways but the Dawn Rebellion massively pushed forward those plans, imagine how things would go if they had another decade or two of planning and preparation before declaring war, possibly having gotten more of the other Sides aligned with them No, Degwin wanted to inch along and play politics. Gihren and Kycilia both were ready to go all in at first opportunity, with Gihren actively putting "Kill billions" in the "pro" column. Degwin's an authoritarian tyrant, but he wants what's best for Zeon, even if that often gets shifted to "And what's good for my family is good for Zeon." The others don't share his restraint.
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Feb 26, 2021 09:35
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Midjack posted:I feel like there’s plenty of Zeon worship in Gundam already, we don’t need to have a masturbatory space Nazi show where they completely shithouse the Federation in the first twenty minutes. That would probably just be the prelude, with the show itself following a resistance movement against Zeon, Gundam has done that sort of thing a bunch but usually the tyranny their opposing is a Federation/Titans expy(Wing, 00, IBO) or something that doesn't line up with either that or Zeon too well(F91, Crossbone, Victory) Admittedly this would probably work better in a full on AU rather than a What If version of UC, if mostly to not have to worry too much about being consistent with UC
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Feb 26, 2021 13:03
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Gihrens was right to push things along because post uc 0080 the feds would have also had mobile suits. And with peace time conditions, those suits probably would have been closer to the rx-78 in terms of performance.
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Feb 26, 2021 17:23
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Droyer posted:*Looks at your avatar, confused* I got this years ago when G-reco was first airing. Never had a problem with the mechs in g-reco either! watched the next few episodes of Turn A and wow Sochie is a little kooky going " gently caress the baby, I hope it starves to death." Also glad that they finally had Loran fess up about being moonrace early on, complete with an newspaper headline with horrendous spelling. .
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Feb 26, 2021 17:53
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Stairmaster posted:Gihrens was right to push things along because post uc 0080 the feds would have also had mobile suits. And with peace time conditions, those suits probably would have been closer to the rx-78 in terms of performance. It's frustrating to me that the only reason the Federation won the One Year War is because Revil escaped and stopped them from capitulating after Loum. How bad is your intelligence agency that it takes an escaped POW to remind you that oh yeah you're good at wars of attrition? Like I was about to come in and say there's no roadmap to a Zeon military victory in the One Year War without Operation British going off without a hitch. But no, that's not true. All they needed to do was kill Revil instead of capture him.
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Feb 26, 2021 18:15
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The Federation leadership is full of idiots, but it's not totally implausible. Normally I'd hate to Godwin myself, but the OYW is pretty explicit about its real-world parallels. Picture a United States run by the same people who fomented the Business Plot, only Japan launches some technomagical nuclear Pearl Harbor attack that kills half the country's population, either in the initial strike or through environmental failure over the course of six months. A bunch of cowardly kleptocrats might be motivated to surrender without a famous public figure openly calling them on their bullshit.
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Feb 26, 2021 18:49
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grassy gnoll posted:The Federation leadership is full of idiots, but it's not totally implausible. Normally I'd hate to Godwin myself, but the OYW is pretty explicit about its real-world parallels. I know, it's just admitting it is  but instead it's Bright tossing a gunpla.
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Feb 26, 2021 19:29
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tbh after loum zeon should have just won the war by virtue of having control of the orbits.
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Feb 26, 2021 20:24
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Stairmaster posted:tbh after loum zeon should have just won the war by virtue of having control of the orbits. Ah but you forgot their achilles heel teens in robots, GUNDAM GAO
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Feb 26, 2021 20:56
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And then Bright asked Kamille to assemble a group of teens with attitude to fight the evil Neo Zeon after Haman escaped at the end of Zeta.
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Feb 26, 2021 20:59
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Warmachine posted:I know, it's just admitting it is Surrender and face to handwave. Those particles ain't gonna Minovsky themselves, you know.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:39
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