Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Ramadu posted:

i mostly just meant that the main town were the nazis and the titans were the former jews or whatever fantasy world equivelent and coming to gently caress them up forever for how horrible they were as revenge . at least thats what i thought i heard the story eventually went with, ive never seen or read it at all

That is not even remotely accurate.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012



Ramadu posted:

at least thats what i thought i heard the story eventually went with, ive never seen or read it at all

lmao every single time.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



Ramadu posted:

i mostly just meant that the main town were the nazis and the titans were the former jews or whatever fantasy world equivelent and coming to gently caress them up forever for how horrible they were as revenge . at least thats what i thought i heard the story eventually went with, ive never seen or read it at all

there are some extremely significant "game of telephone" changes between what you are describing and what is actually in the show

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Ramadu posted:

at least thats what i thought i heard the story eventually went with, ive never seen or read it at all



lmao

Maarak
May 23, 2007


While the topic is out in the open, I heard years ago that the Attack on Titan author Isayama (or maybe people associated with the show?) was tied to right wing nationalist politics, is there any validity to that?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Maarak posted:

While the topic is out in the open, I heard years ago that the Attack on Titan author Isayama (or maybe people associated with the show?) was tied to right wing nationalist politics, is there any validity to that?
This thread will tell you all you want to know about it.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


The telephone game by some goons was why I dropped aot early in its run, but I didn't have to wait a decade for the end so half glass full.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


so i heard aot was a show about space exploration where the warp drives are powered by gay men boning down.

Maarak
May 23, 2007


Midjack posted:

This thread will tell you all you want to know about it.

Did you mean to link to the bit in the OP? Because that's not really a complete answer either.

edit. VVV now that's more like it, thanks!

Maarak fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Apr 4, 2021

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Maarak posted:

While the topic is out in the open, I heard years ago that the Attack on Titan author Isayama (or maybe people associated with the show?) was tied to right wing nationalist politics, is there any validity to that?

Not that anyone's found. He based one of the characters in Attack on Titan on Akiyama Yoshifuru, an early 20th century IJA general, but Yoshifuru's a widely liked national hero in Japan, and from what I've seen his bad reputation in Korea is on more general "gently caress the IJA forever" grounds (a perfectly understandable position) than anything specific he did. In his day, Yoshifuru was highly decorated by foreign militaries (He was a Grand Officer of the Lťgion d'honneur) and considered to be a model of frugality and duty in his personal life, eventually retiring to teach junior high until his death. So, you know. Plenty of people who like him without major nationalist ties.

He also may have named a heroic character after Erwin Rommel, but from the character's role it's clear that it's the popular myth War Without Hate, July Plot Rommel, not any fondness for the Nazis.

Further, the themes of the last arc are pretty skeptical of nationalist sentiments and militarism, while outright decrying racism as Very Bad, with a lot of scenes of fascists being dunked on, so, you know. There's that. (There was also, if memory serves, a troll twitter account claiming to be Isayama that posted some racist stuff, but, you know. That's like blaming someone for what they said in "The Onion")

Moving back to Gundam, or at least a bit closer...

Arcsquad12 posted:

I'll never understand that need to micromanage. It seems pathological.

Comes in part, I suspect, from how loose a lot of 90s and early 2000s localizations were. (The Metal Gear Solid team got into a dispute with Kojima over the animal code names.) When you're used to having rice balls be refereed to as "jelly donuts", it's easy to get paranoid about any changes. And thus, more attempts at direct control, even when the companies don't know what they're talking about.

(Fun recent trivia: The Eva dub on Netflix is the exact script Funimation rejected back in 1997.)

Nobody wants to make another War for Earth.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Maarak posted:

Did you mean to link to the bit in the OP? Because that's not really a complete answer either.

Holy poo poo. You had questions about Attack on Titan and I linked you to the AoT thread; if you can't figure out what to do next from there I don't know what to tell you.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Re-: localization: there's also a case to be made for wanting to explicitly make sure that someone translates a word correctly if you were explicitly trying to use exactly that word. I'm reminded of the original localization of Wild Arms 1 that completely and utterly dropped the ball on a bunch of proper nouns, for instance the big burly berserker demon was called "Belselk", The advanced ancient civilization of Elven people with a great knowledge of magic and a deep connection to the planet were called the "elws", and that's without getting into the German (which was rendered brute force phonetically) or the various literary references that were botched to a one.

On the other hand, there is definitely a point where wanting fidelity to the source material becomes boorish and cumbersome. And on the other other hand there are also cases where a localization choice becomes explicitly regarded by a franchise as the "correct translation", as we see in Gundam where the name "Burning Gundam" is regarded by the franchise heads as the correct English name for that particular Mobile Suit (the translator for Super Robot Wars T stated on twitter that they were told that Domon's mech was called that and so that's that.)

Azubah
Jun 5, 2007




What was wrong with the MGS script? It made sense and didn't huff its own farts like Twin Snakes did.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Azubah posted:

What was wrong with the MGS script? It made sense and didn't huff its own farts like Twin Snakes did.

Final product?

Not much. It's one of the games that set the standard, and some of the decisions were outright brilliant. (It invented the term O.S.P.!)

But Jeremy Blaustein's talked about how he pushed for losing the animal names in the early drafts that could have cost the game some of its endearing goofiness (he's gone on record saying that he was wrong on that one). What's more, there's a lot of liberties taken. Not bad ones, but some devs see the differences and feel like a change is an insult rather than an attempt to compliment the work by bringing its feeling to a different audience.

Kojima's not said anything about his opinion on the topic, but rumor is he got dissatisfied by the changes, leading to Twin Snake's more literal translation and its fart huffing.

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP




Droyer posted:

lmao every single time.

i mean i said i thought it was about that from what ive heard, i never said i read it tho

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


jeremy blaustein also has a very inflated view of his contributions to metal gear solid's storytelling from what I recall, so maybe don't take everything he says as 100% accurate gospel

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013




Continuing my G Gundam watch and Allenby feels like a Four Muramasa reference but filtered though the G Gundam comedy lens.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Ibblebibble posted:

Continuing my G Gundam watch and Allenby feels like a Four Muramasa reference but filtered though the G Gundam comedy lens.

You're not wrong.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I


Is there a Gundam game available in the west on ps4 that is fun to play offline? I didnít care much for the musou games (though I only ever played the original one.)

Bonus if thereís a robust roster of viable grunt suits.

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010


Anonymous Robot posted:

Is there a Gundam game available in the west on ps4 that is fun to play offline? I didnít care much for the musou games (though I only ever played the original one.)

Bonus if thereís a robust roster of viable grunt suits.

Gundam Break 3: Break Edition is about it I think. You get to make your own FrankenGundam and beat up other FrankenGundams and there's plenty of grunt suits.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Hunter Noventa posted:

Gundam Break 3: Break Edition is about it I think. You get to make your own FrankenGundam and beat up other FrankenGundams and there's plenty of grunt suits.

To specifically note: Gundam Breaker 3 isn't actually officially available in the US but has a full English translation and can be purchased digitally or physical disk and played just fine. Like Super Robot Wars it's such an English translation they call it Burning Gundam.

Vord
Oct 27, 2007


Ibblebibble posted:

Continuing my G Gundam watch and Allenby feels like a Four Muramasa reference but filtered though the G Gundam comedy lens.

Same english VA too

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Anonymous Robot posted:

Is there a Gundam game available in the west on ps4 that is fun to play offline? I didnít care much for the musou games (though I only ever played the original one.)

Bonus if thereís a robust roster of viable grunt suits.

Depending on your taste in games, there's the SD Gundam G Generation games. Turn based strategy based around leveling your units to unlock more units you can level up.

Genesis is all UC stuff outside of DLC and it goes all the way through Hathaway's Flash. The catch is that the glut of OYW era suits will become obsolete against the later stuff, so if your favorite suit is the Guncannon, you're out of luck. Meanwhile, Cross Rays is (with DLC) everything but the UC, with a focus on Wing, SEED, 00, and IBO. It doesn't quite have a complete roster of suits for those shows, but it gets close, with a lot of grunts staying viable against big name suits if you want to use them. (Even if they tend to have fewer attack options.)

It was only officially released in the west on Steam, but it has full English text and can be played fine, like Breaker.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


Super Robot Wars isnít pure Gundam but itís like 50% Gundam by volume. You can buy it digitally in English by setting your store to I think Singapore?

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


chiasaur11 posted:


Genesis is all UC stuff outside of DLC and it goes all the way through Hathaway's Flash. The catch is that the glut of OYW era suits will become obsolete against the later stuff, so if your favorite suit is the Guncannon, you're out of luck

just get the g-cannon bro

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



wdarkk posted:

Super Robot Wars isnít pure Gundam but itís like 50% Gundam by volume. You can buy it digitally in English by setting your store to I think Singapore?

The majority of SRW games even have route splits that let you do almost exclusively gundam plot with some super robot sidekicks along for the ride!

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Martha Stewart Undying
Oct 22, 2012



Gundam meister is a dumb term.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012





It was a nice little measure of kindness that those two survived that.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Martha Stewart Undying posted:

Gundam meister is a dumb term.

Gundam Fighter, by contrast, is rad.

It is interesting, though, how the distinction is between "Mobile Suit Pilot" and "Gundam Pilot" is variable by series. In Wing, G Gundam, and 00, it's treated as a notable distinction. Meanwhile, in the UC, there's nothing particularly distinguishing a generic Gundam pilot from anyone else.

It's not even about the iconic nature of the MS itself. In G, Gundams weren't seen as that special, and in the UC they attained great symbolic power over time. It's just the way the shows treat characters in their setting that changes.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






Well in G it's more a profession. In Wing it's more of an affiliation. In 00 it's kind of a position of honor in the CB hierarchy.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




And in IBO... well, let's just say it's an extremely charged concept and leave it at that.

Martha Stewart Undying
Oct 22, 2012




I used this picture to explain everything about gundam as a series to my fiance and friends

Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015


chiasaur11 posted:

Not that anyone's found. He based one of the characters in Attack on Titan on Akiyama Yoshifuru, an early 20th century IJA general, but Yoshifuru's a widely liked national hero in Japan, and from what I've seen his bad reputation in Korea is on more general "gently caress the IJA forever" grounds (a perfectly understandable position) than anything specific he did. In his day, Yoshifuru was highly decorated by foreign militaries (He was a Grand Officer of the Lťgion d'honneur) and considered to be a model of frugality and duty in his personal life, eventually retiring to teach junior high until his death. So, you know. Plenty of people who like him without major nationalist ties.

He also may have named a heroic character after Erwin Rommel, but from the character's role it's clear that it's the popular myth War Without Hate, July Plot Rommel, not any fondness for the Nazis.

Further, the themes of the last arc are pretty skeptical of nationalist sentiments and militarism, while outright decrying racism as Very Bad, with a lot of scenes of fascists being dunked on, so, you know. There's that. (There was also, if memory serves, a troll twitter account claiming to be Isayama that posted some racist stuff, but, you know. That's like blaming someone for what they said in "The Onion")

Moving back to Gundam, or at least a bit closer...


Comes in part, I suspect, from how loose a lot of 90s and early 2000s localizations were. (The Metal Gear Solid team got into a dispute with Kojima over the animal code names.) When you're used to having rice balls be refereed to as "jelly donuts", it's easy to get paranoid about any changes. And thus, more attempts at direct control, even when the companies don't know what they're talking about.

(Fun recent trivia: The Eva dub on Netflix is the exact script Funimation rejected back in 1997.)

Nobody wants to make another War for Earth.

This is in comparison to the writer of Gundam Unicorn, who is 100% connected to Japanese Ultranationalism and is a massive apologist for Imperial Japan, yet still gets work. The writer of AOT is emphatically not a fascism, and tries to not make Fascism look cool- he kinda succeeds at this as compared to MuvLuv, which fails entirely in not coming off as fascist Japanese Ultranationalism.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Darth Walrus posted:

And in IBO... well, let's just say it's an extremely charged concept and leave it at that.

I was actually thinking of IBO a bit for this, because it's a complicated relationship there.

On the one end, you have the Seven Stars, legendary heroes who saved mankind with their Gundams, whose descendants hold political power due to their inheritance, with Bael supposedly holding the key to political power. We even see that Kimaris (and presumably six others, although Gaelio was the only one of the Seven Stars who actually went to the family vault when the going got tough... and that's interesting too, now that I think of it.) is a cherished heirloom.

On the other end, you have Kudal Cadel, who's a two bit pirate, Gundam or no. The Brewers having a Gundam was less central to their rep than the fact they had a whole MS squad. (In fact, several characters in early episodes are shocked to see an ancient relic like Barbatos defeat a Graze of Gjallarhorn.) Non-Vingolf Gundams are initially seen as just ancient relics, not much different from Rodis or Hugos in principle.

And in the middle you have the position of the actual pilots, who were pretty much making a deal with the devil.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




I mean, the best way to describe the original pilots is 'exalted child sacrifices'.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Darth Walrus posted:

I mean, the best way to describe the original pilots is 'exalted child sacrifices'.

Exalted nothing, they were disposable control systems for war machines. The implications of the way the pilots can get brain-fried from the connection infers they were probably just cycling in new pilots as the old ones were burned out with severe brain damage. There's a reason child soldiers are prevalent in IBO and it's because they're cheap and replaceable, and it would almost certainly stretch back to the Calamity War as a practice.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Neddy Seagoon posted:

Exalted nothing, they were disposable control systems for war machines. The implications of the way the pilots can get brain-fried from the connection infers they were probably just cycling in new pilots as the old ones were burned out with severe brain damage. There's a reason child soldiers are prevalent in IBO and it's because they're cheap and replaceable, and it would almost certainly stretch back to the Calamity War as a practice.

That didn't stop them from being treated with religious reverence, though - in fact, that would be a great motivation for families to send their kids to have their brains eaten by giant robot demons. The status of the modern-day Seven Stars absolutely speaks to an ancient martyrdom culture.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


chiasaur11 posted:

On the other end, you have Kudal Cadel, who's a two bit pirate, Gundam or no. The Brewers having a Gundam was less central to their rep than the fact they had a whole MS squad. (In fact, several characters in early episodes are shocked to see an ancient relic like Barbatos defeat a Graze of Gjallarhorn.) Non-Vingolf Gundams are initially seen as just ancient relics, not much different from Rodis or Hugos in principle.

The first forms of the Barbatos from early in the show probably aren't much better than a Graze, Rodi etc. since it's so removed from it's original design and had become rather decrepit with age and disuse. It's not until the Teiwaz engineers do some work restoring it to it's original loadout and performance that it starts to shine, really.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Exalted nothing, they were disposable control systems for war machines. The implications of the way the pilots can get brain-fried from the connection infers they were probably just cycling in new pilots as the old ones were burned out with severe brain damage. There's a reason child soldiers are prevalent in IBO and it's because they're cheap and replaceable, and it would almost certainly stretch back to the Calamity War as a practice.

I'm never quite clear on this, but the version of the Alaya-Vijnana system that McGillis uses; is it the original, safe version that can be used on adults or was it a perfected version, better than that in use during the Calamity War?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


I figure it's a little of both, it probably was less dangerous back in the Calamity War as they probably understood the process better(and probably gave a little more of a poo poo about candidates not dying from the process then most most of the groups using it in the present day), but McGillis was probably was indeed using an improved version of the process

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply