Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





tsob posted:

There's a lot of problems with Stardust Memories overall, but one that isn't addressed as often (or maybe just one most people don't care about) is that it kind of shits all over the arc Tomino's shows built up for AE. When they're introduced in Zeta they're a new player in the Earthspere, and supporting AEUG alone. They do supply the Titans with the Marasai, but it's originally being built for AE as a replacement for the Rick Dias and they hand it over to the Titans only after Titans personnel show up at their Granada factory and threaten to drop a colony on it if AE don't cooperate. AE on the whole though is at least superficially benevolent, but Wong is a giant rear end in a top hat at almost every turn and seems to view AEUG as AE's private army, which gives them some moral ambiguity. Zeta, and to a lesser degree ZZ, also imply that AE is using AEUG and the entire war against the Titans (and then Neo Zeon) as a way to advertise the superiority of their designs over those produced by the Federation or Neo Zeon. If a tiny force like AEUG can defeat the Titans using AE designs, when the Titans have the support of the Federation, then surely AE's designs are just outright superior. Since originally, both the Titans and Neo Zeon produce all their designs in house. Once those conflicts are over, AE end up supplying the Federation starting with Char's Counterattack; AE designing the Jegans specialized units like Londo Bell use while the Federation general forces use GM IIIs. Which are the last of their line. It's only at that point that they start double dealing originally though. Then the Federation starts shutting them out in F91 with the next entry, using SNRI to produce stuff in house again. It's a neat little bit of world-building.

Yeah, Zeta era Anaheim is an interesting group since, on the one hand, they're shady war profiteer assholes who drag the protagonists into really stupid plans because they have the money and thus they get to tell people what to do. But on the other, they're the only ones in any position of power who genuinely want to stop the Titans and Neo Zeon, and even scumbags like Wong will put their lives on the line without hesitation or complaint.

Later stuff just had them as a shady unethical megacorp, and that's much more generic.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




chiasaur11 posted:

Yeah, Zeta era Anaheim is an interesting group since, on the one hand, they're shady war profiteer assholes who drag the protagonists into really stupid plans because they have the money and thus they get to tell people what to do. But on the other, they're the only ones in any position of power who genuinely want to stop the Titans and Neo Zeon, and even scumbags like Wong will put their lives on the line without hesitation or complaint.

Later stuff just had them as a shady unethical megacorp, and that's much more generic.

TBF, that's because their high-profile idealists (and the nicer factions they had exclusive contracts with) all got killed off in ZZ.

The One Year War may have mortally wounded the Earth Sphere, but the First Neo Zeon War is where it lost its health insurance.

Ramadu
Aug 25, 2004

2015 NFL MVP




Darth Walrus posted:

I guess you could think of Zeta as where Contolism became established as a widespread religion, ZZ as where the last of the secular pragmatists were either killed off or faded into political irrelevance, and CCA as the first Contolist jihad. Char was absolutely a religious leader by the end, whether or not he intended to be or cared.

On that note, I was just reminded of what's arguably the best (serious) Gundam AMV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFnxOfZp7g

this was really rad im a big fan of amvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJeKDOoYM88

i like this one a lot for zeta. its insane how much better a new translation looks comparatively

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




There are some very entertaining joke AMVs for the franchise...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKqs1JLDbp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1m3tEj2JzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5jnaextwrQ

... but I've always got my eye out for more serious ones as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgSktwKs0Ew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb8WnFN8Sgk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxzbh6vPRZg

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Holy poo poo, the Gouf Troop. If we ever got a gang tag, that should be it.

On the topic of 0083, didn't the Solar System fail mostly because Gato went buck wild on what was unfortunately a fairly delicate piece of space machinery?

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






Ramadu posted:

this was really rad im a big fan of amvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJeKDOoYM88

i like this one a lot for zeta. its insane how much better a new translation looks comparatively

I especially like all the additional background details like the Alexandria-class' launch deck and such. That's the poo poo I live for. Oh, and the MS battles are nice and all.

But seriously if the Yamato 2199 crew could be put to work on Gundam stuff my brains would explode.

Nessus posted:

On the topic of 0083, didn't the Solar System fail mostly because Gato went buck wild on what was unfortunately a fairly delicate piece of space machinery?

He does some minor damage to it and destroys the control ship, which cut its firing sequence short. Personally I doubt it would've stopped the colony even if there had been no interference because the colony was what did most of the damage to the solar system. They overestimated the destructive capability of the solar system. The fact that the OYW version scorched Solomon without penetrating the asteroid itself should've told them it wasn't going to work but maybe the engineers just gave Bask large enough numbers that he assumed it'd work. It's one thing to do a ton of damage to a thing and divert it from its original target (They assumed Jaburo, and they weren't wrong up until the last minute corrections by Gato) but it's another to actually physically stop a drop by destroying the colony into small enough bits that damage from debris falling to Earth is a "minor" nuisance.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


It's a wonder anyone can reenter or leave earth atmosphere given the massive debris field and Kessler syndrome brought about by the shoal zones.

Burns
May 10, 2008


Arcsquad12 posted:

It's a wonder anyone can reenter or leave earth atmosphere given the massive debris field and Kessler syndrome brought about by the shoal zones.

They likely figured out how to capture scrap pretty effectively. I like the opening of Bandit Flower where the monks just drag all the scrap and haul it back to Earth.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


They do have Mobile Workers that wrangle up up scrap piles in Origin so that was probably priority one in the postwar cleanup. But there's still shoal zones in the postwar period like the Laplace Station in earth orbit.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Always liked those AMVs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZzaXIHTpFo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zt09A-Xd7o

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Ramadu posted:

this was really rad im a big fan of amvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJeKDOoYM88

i like this one a lot for zeta. its insane how much better a new translation looks comparatively

I never bothered checking out A New Translation because of all the weird adjustments to the end result that I'd read about, but that is way way prettier. Zeta is some peak Gundam for me, but if it looked like that? I might put it back to the top of my list for Gundam entries.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


It's mainly the third movie that looks like that. The first two movies splice the new animation with some touched up 1985 animation and it is jarring as hell.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Arcsquad12 posted:

It's mainly the third movie that looks like that. The first two movies splice the new animation with some touched up 1985 animation and it is jarring as hell.

Ahhh add it to the pile of reasons I'm remembering I didn't engage with it. The OG trilogy that worked out okay for since the updated visuals weren't really super different in detail or style, this I could see it being super jarring.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



New translation looks amazing, like, 40% of the time, the rest is the footage from the show.

Itís dumb as gently caress.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Zeta TV looks amazing.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Gaius Marius posted:

Zeta TV looks amazing.

Not when jumping within scene to 20 year newer differently-styled movie level animation.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Gaius Marius posted:

Zeta TV looks amazing.

Zeta TV looks amazing... for an 80s TV anime.

It's not such a good match for a really good looking 2000s theatrical anime.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Argas posted:

He does some minor damage to it and destroys the control ship, which cut its firing sequence short. Personally I doubt it would've stopped the colony even if there had been no interference because the colony was what did most of the damage to the solar system. They overestimated the destructive capability of the solar system. The fact that the OYW version scorched Solomon without penetrating the asteroid itself should've told them it wasn't going to work but maybe the engineers just gave Bask large enough numbers that he assumed it'd work. It's one thing to do a ton of damage to a thing and divert it from its original target (They assumed Jaburo, and they weren't wrong up until the last minute corrections by Gato) but it's another to actually physically stop a drop by destroying the colony into small enough bits that damage from debris falling to Earth is a "minor" nuisance.
At least Gato managed to destroy Ohio.

Right? Or did he hit Kansas instead. Christ, what a fuckup!

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Zeta looks good most of the time but it's explosions are weak compared to the pink kaboom clouds of 0079. There's obviously points where they had to cut corners but it's also a 50 episode series immediately followed by another 50 episode series. They did what they could with what they had and for the most part it looks pretty.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




One AMV concept I'd love to see done well would be footage from the Gundam franchise as a whole set to the Star Wars main theme. Seems like it would be a perfect way to summarise the whole gigantic, decades-long saga.

Wonder if any of the serious AMV artisans are still out there and inclined to do requests?

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



DamnGlitch posted:

Not when jumping within scene to 20 year newer differently-styled movie level animation.

chiasaur11 posted:

Zeta TV looks amazing... for an 80s TV anime.

It's not such a good match for a really good looking 2000s theatrical anime.

That's fair. I just woke up and I thought you were implying that Zeta isn't the best looking of the full series, which I cannot accept

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


But Turn A Gundam is the best looking of the full series. It has a mustache.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Arcsquad12 posted:

But Turn A Gundam is the best looking of the full series. It has a mustache.

And lush, rolling Ghibli hills.

Turn A is absolutely gorgeous. Don't really see how you could argue for any other Gundam for the "best looking" title. It's got stronger and weaker, sure, but the average lets it square off against some of the OVAs without being embarrassed.

RevolverDivider
Nov 12, 2016



Zeta looks ok. It's one of my favorite series but a lot of the fights are fairly cluttered and dull. Even MSG TV has better on average fights scenes.

Turn A is the best looking show and nothing even comes close.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Zeta's overall mechanical design is a little bit on the weak side, too. The factions don't have strong visual identities (yes, I know it's a civil war, but there are plenty of sci-fi shows that make it easy to tell the difference between the plucky, scrappy rebels and their fascist oppressors even when they're using the same fundamental tech-base), and the suits themselves tend to occupy an awkward halfway-house between the Jetsons cartoonishness of MSG and a more modern, 'realistic' aesthetic - too many of them are busy and ungainly without the clean, iconic lines of the original or the tacticool charm of, say, VOTOMS. Even the protagonist suit suffers from a mechanically impossible and stunningly ungainly transformation that blights its sleek, sporty base form with unsightly kibble.

Compare that to Turn A, and there's absolutely no contest.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


ZZ gets it better since they go back to the divide between blocky feddie and rounded Zeon designs, and then CCA has probably the best distinction between Federation and Zeon designs out there, and that includes Unicorn.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Arcsquad12 posted:

ZZ gets it better since they go back to the divide between blocky feddie and rounded Zeon designs, and then CCA has probably the best distinction between Federation and Zeon designs out there, and that includes Unicorn.

Yeah, Neo Zeon feels like a faction with its own iconic visual personality in ZZ - CCA and the various OVAs with 08 in their name perfect the standard UC aesthetic, but I'd say Double Zeta provides most of the key building blocks for an update of the original Mobile Suit Gundam's style.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Darth Walrus posted:

Zeta's overall mechanical design is a little bit on the weak side, too. The factions don't have strong visual identities (yes, I know it's a civil war, but there are plenty of sci-fi shows that make it easy to tell the difference between the plucky, scrappy rebels and their fascist oppressors even when they're using the same fundamental tech-base), and the suits themselves tend to occupy an awkward halfway-house between the Jetsons cartoonishness of MSG and a more modern, 'realistic' aesthetic - too many of them are busy and ungainly without the clean, iconic lines of the original or the tacticool charm of, say, VOTOMS. Even the protagonist suit suffers from a mechanically impossible and stunningly ungainly transformation that blights its sleek, sporty base form with unsightly kibble.

Compare that to Turn A, and there's absolutely no contest.

Hard Disagree. Zeta does have a problem with the Titans going all in on Zeon style design, but aside from the Rick Dias the Aeug has a pretty strong Design sensibilty. A mix of Federation style with a little more Edge to represent them being a paramilitary operation.

Titans cultivate the heroic imagery of the Gundam, but turn it towards cultivating Terror with the Psycho and Mk.II. Their other designs have a good mix of practicality for the grunts and grotesque imagery to reinforce their twisted belifs

Meanwhile the Axis's suits are a bizzare alien slapdash mix lead by Haman who pilots her suit modeled into the form of a goddess

I think the visual identity is very good, aside from the Rick Dias, which I think is more a tool so Tomino could repeat the idea of the first episode of MSG but with the roles of good guy and bad guy swapped. So it does serve a purpose.

Anyways all the suits designed by...Kobayashi I wanna say are fantastic
The Hammurabi, O, Pallas Athene, and Baund Doc all go hard as hell

And the Gabthely is the coolest looking robot in fiction

Seemlar
Jun 17, 2002


DamnGlitch posted:

New translation looks amazing, like, 40% of the time, the rest is the footage from the show.

Itís dumb as gently caress.

It's even completely passable in Zeta 3 (and maybe 2? I don't clearly remember) but in 1 it's the editing which is regularly completely baffling - you'd think "old footage for things that are less important, static or just very well done in the original, then new animation for beauty shots, action and iconic sequences" would be a simple enough approach but it's often really random and jarring.

My favourite go-to scene is always one in Zeta 1 where Kamille, Emma and Char are walking down a hallway having a conversation and it flips between styles like 3-4 times for no reason, but another good one is when the Hyaku-Shiki and Asshimar have a completely reanimated fight where they're ducking and weaving between each others shots in high detail then when the Asshimar gets close enough to throw a punch it's... a static wobbling frame with speed lines from the tv version?

RevolverDivider
Nov 12, 2016



The Titans suits are terrible until we get to the Scirocco stuff. None of them have any unifying identity or personality at all except for a handful that manage to be alright, but still not serve any sort of purpose. Hizack is one of the shittiest grunt suits in any UC setting.

ZZ Neo Zeon suits have a unifying aesthetic but they're also almost all utterly hideous besides Qubelays, R-Jarja and Zaku III.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Hamma Hamma is cool too. But most the ZZ suits are awful Geymalk, Doven Wolf, and Zssa are abominations

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


The Doven Wolf is great in its Unicorn colors.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Oh, c'mon now, the Zssa is delightful. Unless you have severe tryptophobia, I guess.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


It's amazing amazing the difference a good colour scheme can make for a suit. The Unicorn repaints make all the wacky suits a lot cooler, Doven Wolf, Schüzrum Gallus and Zssa included.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011




The Sleeves Dreissen is a fantastic-looking suit. It even has non-cosmetic improvements, the power pipes for the arm guns are no longer left exposed.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Darth Walrus posted:

Oh, c'mon now, the Zssa is delightful. Unless you have severe tryptophobia, I guess.

It looks like the old lady from worms armageddon

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


Wasn't Zeta's design a response to Macross's popularity and why suddenly everyone transforms for no reason

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010


Bloody Pom posted:

The Sleeves Dreissen is a fantastic-looking suit. It even has non-cosmetic improvements, the power pipes for the arm guns are no longer left exposed.

I'm a big fan of the Dreissen, arm-mounted weapons like that always get me.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011




Gaius Marius posted:

It looks like the old lady from worms armageddon

Thanks, I can hear this post.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Gaius Marius posted:

It looks like the old lady from worms armageddon

Your point? It's a wonderfully characterful design. You can just see some foam-mouthed Axis admiral going 'gently caress safety margins, gently caress structural integrity, WE NEED MORE MISSILES'.

As for the Dreissen, I honestly prefer its ZZ version. It looks suitably regal and intimidating for an officer suit, rather than just being yet another Dom descendant.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 4, 2021

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply