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chiasaur11 posted:I'm an IBO fan on that count, myself. Meanwhile, Turn A has Kanno and Unicorn has Sawano. Personal taste may differ I don't think any of them are bad but many are unremarkable. I couldn't tell you anything about the scores of 08th Team or War in the Pocket for example.
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May 16, 2021 06:38
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i wish sawano had a different shtick like yeah if you wanna make the comparison to kanno since they've both done gundam, she actually has a strong breadth to her work while sawano just shits out the same thing anymore
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May 16, 2021 06:38
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Sawano's Unicorn OST is far more rich, creative and varied than Kawai's 00 OST, at least. AAAH AAAH-AH AH-AH-AH AAAH AAAH-AH
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May 16, 2021 06:42
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Midjack posted:I don't think any of them are bad but many are unremarkable. I couldn't tell you anything about the scores of 08th Team or War in the Pocket for example. Barring OPs and EDs for both series being good (and 0080's ED and credits making me bawl), these are the ones that stick out for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjeb1a82-Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am77biCIj9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnxo1UiHpZI 08th MS Team has a great soundtrack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIgY0ZBjkKI I dont know the name of the track itself but it's the one that plays right when Bernie ambushes the Alex. 0080's score is okay most of the time but it's more to do with creating a feeling of dissonance between the daily life of Al and the horrifying reality of warfare. In that regard its very effective but a lot of the tracks feel bland as a result. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 07:24 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 07:16
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gently caress yeah bring back eyecatches. Tomino knew what he was doing with the G-Reco dances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmNDCf3TVV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Yo4ryp6bk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mqw02kj-Ls
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May 16, 2021 16:47
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I learned recently that Romino's daughter is the one who choreographed the G-Reco eyecatches, very interesting
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May 16, 2021 17:00
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chiasaur11 posted:(Which leads in turn to the question of what Gundam scores aren't good.) 0080. Al's daytime kids tv show rear end theme really puts me off.
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May 16, 2021 17:15
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It's crazy for Une to jump to the conclusion that Heero is protecting Relena cause he knows her, and not because she's the daughter of the only pro colony diplomat in the setting.
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May 16, 2021 18:01
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jumping to bizarre, inexplicable conclusions is what wing characters do. that, and self destructing.
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May 16, 2021 18:17
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7Ep and we have the first Coup. And to my surprise Wufei comes in and is the only one with a goddamn brain in his head. Not only do the Gundampilots randomly attack a shuttle fleeing a base, even though they don't know whose on it. They then all attack eachother for some loving reason. They certainly keep the show moving, I can see why it was so popular when I was a kid, but the action direction is very lacking. Lot of suits standing around or flying straight at the gundams. It lacks a lot of the dynamism of a Tomino project or even it's predecessor G. The whole plot also needed a few more passes, It has this weird problem where the earth already has Four or so factions some of which have subfactions and yet the colonies are treated as monolithic. Very weird. Their actual intent is also hidden which is compelling but can also give the impression that poo poo is just happening for no reason. The show also has a real setting problem, none of the locations feel distinct, and people teleport around like late era Game of Thrones.
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May 16, 2021 18:40
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:jumping to bizarre, inexplicable conclusions is what wing characters do. that, and self destructing. Self destruction is also a conclusion.
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May 16, 2021 18:47
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I never could figure out how or why Duo had an unmanned Deathscythe haul Wing out of the ocean. Having Heero shoot them both right when they got to the surface seemed to prove the point.
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May 16, 2021 18:48
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Azubah posted:Self destruction is also a conclusion. you'd think so, but it never actually is in wing.
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May 16, 2021 18:51
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A conclusion, not the conlusion.
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May 16, 2021 18:53
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Midjack posted:I never could figure out how or why Duo had an unmanned Deathscythe haul Wing out of the ocean. Having Heero shoot them both right when they got to the surface seemed to prove the point. He didn't realize Heero was the pilot, he was gonna use Wing as a backup unit 9 Ep's in and we get an explanation of what the Alliance is, after it's already collapsed. Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 19:14 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 18:54
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I will never not love the Wing Narrator. "With great expectations..."
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May 16, 2021 19:56
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Wing feels like new lead writers kept coming into the room trying to reshape the story into their own new thing, even though afaik that only happened once. Very few characters actually accomplish anything while travelling to and from space, joining new factions regardless of previous objectives or characterisation, and monologuing about how swell/bad war is/will be once we have drones.
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May 16, 2021 21:04
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sassassin posted:Wing feels like new lead writers kept coming into the room trying to reshape the story into their own new thing, even though afaik that only happened once. Very few characters actually accomplish anything while travelling to and from space, joining new factions regardless of previous objectives or characterisation, and monologuing about how swell/bad war is/will be once we have drones. It didn't happen at all. Katsuyuki Sumizawa was the head writer from start to finish on Gundam Wing as a TV show, along with being the writer for Endless Waltz, the Episode Zero manga (which I think might have been animated at one point too), the Glory of the Losers manga and Frozen Teardrop. He IS Gundam Wing, and Gundam Wing is his baby, good or bad. The only Gundam Wing content he hasn't written to my knowledge are the Blind Target, Ground Zero, G-Unit and Tiel's Impulse manga, along with some novelizations. Mostly done by Koichi Tokita. All the major content is helmed by Sumizawa though. What did happen during Gundam Wing's TV anime was that the director was replaced around about the half way point. Masashi Ikeda was originally the show's director, but he stepped away from the production around about episode 26 and Sunrise replaced him with Shinji Takamatsu. I remember reading up on the incident a few years back, but I can't recall why Ikeda left the production exactly at this point. I do recall it was a voluntary action on his part though, and that he left on good terms with Sunrise. Which is why his name remained in the credits as director for the show's run, and Takamatsu replaced him uncredited in the original run. I think it was stress related or something. Regardless, that's the reason there are two recap episodes in a row half way through the show. It probably did have an effect on the show's script though, because the director is one of, if not the main voice in an anime really, and basically shapes the entire production. So he may have told Sumizawa to change around a few arcs that were being planned, and decided to focus on different elements or what not.
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May 16, 2021 21:52
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The Sanc kingdom bit feels like a terrible reboot attempt.
sassassin fucked around with this message at 21:57 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 21:55
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More of an anime industry question but how common is it for a showrunner to also be lead writer? Mangaka both illustrate and write as a general rule and in anime most directors get their start as animators and often do key animation where their skill requires. But do shows have dedicated writers or is it directors who get the first pass at a script. Because a showrunner writing crazy poo poo because they're an animator first and a writer second would explain a lot of shows.
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May 16, 2021 22:01
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sassassin posted:Wing feels like new lead writers kept coming into the room trying to reshape the story into their own new thing, even though afaik that only happened once. Very few characters actually accomplish anything while travelling to and from space, joining new factions regardless of previous objectives or characterisation, and monologuing about how swell/bad war is/will be once we have drones. Interviews for Wing are kind of amazing. Just things like the director saying "I had Heero self-destruct the Wing. Have fun!" as regular things the writers had to deal with when the scripts came due. It was not the most planned out show. (IBO, meanwhile, has a lot more interviews with Mari Okada going "We knew we'd need to do X, so I had to write Y to make sure it was believable to the audience", even as a lot changed in the show's production.)
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May 16, 2021 22:02
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Frozen Teardrop is unfiltered Sumizawa. I've never read it, but I've also never heard anyone say anything partiucarly good about it. Which probably tells you a lot about Sumizawa as an author. Mind you, what I have read is that his intent with Frozen Teardrop was to throw all his wild ideas into a mixing pot with no real intent, see what worked and what didn't based on feedback and then have a better idea what would and wouldn't work for an eventual Gundam Wing sequel TV show. If he ever gets one, as he and Katoki are apparenlty hoping for. Now, I've never seen an actual source for that, but it is something I've seen used to explain the novel's insaninty at times. I've heard good things about Glory of the Losers though. The first volume or two I read a few years back were fine, and that's basically just him too without being nearly as over the top from what I've read and heard about the rest of either. Which lends credence to the idea he was just firing everything he could think of at the wall in Frozen Teardrop to see what stuck.
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May 16, 2021 22:03
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Arcsquad12 posted:More of an anime industry question but how common is it for a showrunner to also be lead writer? Mangaka both illustrate and write as a general rule and in anime most directors get their start as animators and often do key animation where their skill requires. But do shows have dedicated writers or is it directors who get the first pass at a script. The director tends to be the one in charge, with the writer having to put their ideas together. Some writers, like Mari Okada and Gen Urobuchi, have more authority over a show, but the general layout leaves the writer with less control over the show's overall direction.
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May 16, 2021 22:06
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chiasaur11 posted:The director tends to be the one in charge, with the writer having to put their ideas together. Some writers, like Mari Okada and Gen Urobuchi, have more authority over a show, but the general layout leaves the writer with less control over the show's overall direction. That would explain a lot of shows I've watched. Not necessarily a "wrong" system but one that can definitely end up hampering a final product if not everyone is on the same page. Not unlike a bad director or showrunner on any project, really. A good script still needs good direction and there's more bad directors than good ones. Empty suits put in place by higher ups to direct by committee.
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May 16, 2021 22:13
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I imagine that's an especially prevalent problem in a huge franchise like Gundam because the executives have so much sway over the final product. When the franchise was still young Tomino would have had more power to refuse executive meddling, since Sunrise was looking for commercial hits to boost the brand and he was a major name that it'd be hard to replace without tarnishing the public face of whatever show he was on. Tomino still had to deal with some of it, which eventually made him walk away after Victory, but he had some ability to push back. He also apparently owned some of the franchise for a while up to the 2000s before he sold the rights he had to Banrise, so he would have had some legal right to push back. Any new director picking up in his stead in the 90's or later though is much more limited, because at that point the brand was established and none of them are going to be nearly as famous or as intrinsically tied to the name in the public consciousness as Tomino is. So they can all be replaced a lot easier, if executives feel they're getting difficult. I've read occasional accounts that Tomino has given out to the directors of works like SEED or Unicorn for repeating things he'd done before or not being adventerous enough with the brand, but I do wonder how adventerous they can be with that kind of executive oversight. Which makes Tomino's words come off kind of dickish if that is true, since the people he is speaking to really can't do what he expects but he's still berating them anyway.
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May 16, 2021 22:28
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Gaius Marius posted:He didn't realize Heero was the pilot, he was gonna use Wing as a backup unit Yeah I get why he grabbed it, I just don't get the why and how of sending the Deathscythe unmanned.
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May 16, 2021 23:26
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Midjack posted:Yeah I get why he grabbed it, I just don't get the why and how of sending the Deathscythe unmanned. I'll look for it but the Gundams seem to have at least some form of limited Ai, other series also show Suits capable of doing pre programmed actions chiasaur11 posted:Interviews for Wing are kind of amazing. Just things like the director saying "I had Heero self-destruct the Wing. Have fun!" as regular things the writers had to deal with when the scripts came due. It's weird the Character and Themes of the show are obviously planned out. Heero is doing the deathwish poo poo ep 1, the school vs battlefield shows the dichotomy between war and the illusion of peace was planned out, even talk of soldiers and their place in war early on. But then in the actual EP's poo poo just happens, Quatre meets Trowa except now he's leaving, oh Heero is captured oh he escaped, he joins the school oh wait now he's leaving, Relena goes to space then returns same EP. Just bizzare plotting
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May 16, 2021 23:52
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tsob posted:I imagine that's an especially prevalent problem in a huge franchise like Gundam because the executives have so much sway over the final product. When the franchise was still young Tomino would have had more power to refuse executive meddling, since Sunrise was looking for commercial hits to boost the brand and he was a major name that it'd be hard to replace without tarnishing the public face of whatever show he was on. Tomino still had to deal with some of it, which eventually made him walk away after Victory, but he had some ability to push back. He also apparently owned some of the franchise for a while up to the 2000s before he sold the rights he had to Banrise, so he would have had some legal right to push back. Any new director picking up in his stead in the 90's or later though is much more limited, because at that point the brand was established and none of them are going to be nearly as famous or as intrinsically tied to the name in the public consciousness as Tomino is. So they can all be replaced a lot easier, if executives feel they're getting difficult. Interviews suggest a lot more freedom than you're giving the writers and directors credit for. SEED and Unicorn were very much deliberately invoking the past. Meanwhile, G and IBO did their own thing and were quite successful. The producers were even explicitly onboard with the original planned ending for IBO, with the objections coming from the writer's room. It's not just external pressure that makes Gundam repeat past motifs (although in some cases like 00 season 2, I'd definitely say it's a major factor) it's internal pressure. Talented people have wanted to work on Gundam, THE mecha anime, for years. It makes sense that what they'd want to do would call back to previous works in the series, since that's what inspired them.
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May 17, 2021 00:12
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Darth Walrus posted:Sawano's Unicorn OST is far more rich, creative and varied than Kawai's 00 OST, at least. I love that motif.
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May 17, 2021 00:52
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Gaius Marius posted:I wonder if I could make a thematic argument for Heero having suicidal ideation? I don't know about making a thematic argument for it, but I can see someone painting him as suicidal in the first few episodes and I think it's about the only explanation possible for his behaviour in the first episode or two personally. Once Zechs gets a leg lock on the Wing using a Leo, Heero appears to just...give up. The Wing crashes into the ocean with no resistence, despite it happening up in the clouds and the Wing being a flying unit that should have enough thrust to at least slow his descent, if not outright fly while bound by the Leo. It's also not like the leg lock is particularly complete, and Heero should be able to shuck the Leo off without much issue given the fact it's just a single leg bound around one of the Wing's legs. Instead, it just crashes into the ocean, and Heero decides to blow it up immediately while seeming like he wants to die himself. I think maybe Heero takes the fact he was seen by someone who survived, i.e. Zechs, as a failure, and puts the secrecy of his mission over his own life but Wing's writing is so hectic that it's hard to make sense of really. Gaius Marius posted:I'll look for it but the Gundams seem to have at least some form of limited Ai, other series also show Suits capable of doing pre programmed actions When Quatre goes to blow up the Sandrock he says that the Sandrock wants him to live as it opens the cockpit, then it walks forward with no pilot after he leaves as another example. Several of the Gundam pilots anthropomorphize their Gundams in Wing, with Wufei speaking to his as if it's an avatar of his wife while Duo talks as if to a person when speaking about the Deathscythe too. I don't think Heero or Trowa do, but Duo, Quatre and Wufei certainly do and there's probably a couple of other instances of simple AI in the show I can't recall off hand too. Which is consistent with past shows really, since even in the original show you have Amuro sending the Gundam out to shoot at the Zeong as it's climactic death in the Last Shooting scene. chiasaur11 posted:Interviews suggest a lot more freedom than you're giving the writers and directors credit for. SEED and Unicorn were very much deliberately invoking the past. Meanwhile, G and IBO did their own thing and were quite successful. The producers were even explicitly onboard with the original planned ending for IBO, with the objections coming from the writer's room. I don't think it's as clear cut as "the writers can do whatever they want", and I imagine it's more like "producers give the creators some vague critera for what they want a show to be when hiring them and anything outside that is an uphill battle". Fukui for instances has said in interview that Sunrise told him Unicorn would be turned into an animation when they hired him, and then said in interview after the anime was done that he had less control than people might think. If Sunrise were already sure they were going to animate whatever Fukui wrote then it's likely they gave him at least some guidance about what he was going to write in the first place. Also, Tomino has said that when he stepped away from the franchise after Victory that he was the one who recommended Imagawa because he liked Imagawa's style and thought he should make something akin to a wrestling match. Imagawa has also talked about how he initially hoped to make a traditional Gundam story, but was told to make a tournament anime, because those were popular at the time. He created the story of G to fit that remit, but he was given some orders about what it should be and couldn't just make whatever he wanted apparently. That seems far more likely to be the norm than just assuming that Fukui or Fukuda wanted to write something homaging the past, while Okada didn't and that was it. Hell, Tomino himself wrote the original show with that kind of stipulation, since he was asked to create a sci-fi giant robot show and created Mobile Suit Gundam to fit that order. There were probably some further stipulations, and I'd assume he had to fight to make it about a war between humans where there were lots of mecha on each side etc, but he definitely had some orders about what he should create. It seems more likely the producers of SEED wanted a show that was basically a retelling of the original for a new generation, that the producers of Unicorn wanted a show around about the time of Char's Counterattack that was created with older fans of UC in mind and that the producers of 00 or IBO wanted an AU that was basically it's own thing (as much as a franchise show can be). Or something along those lines. The writers then came into the contract with that in mind, and wrote to that stipulation. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 17, 2021 |
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May 17, 2021 00:56
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Zeta Episode 24 where Blex is assassinated and asks for Char to take over being called Counterattack.  That's just perfect. And an English exclusive, too!*Edit* Also, exposing Katz' naivete notwithstanding, What did Sarah's fake defection accomplish? She entered under a white flag, they'd have let her leave. She didn't steal a new AEUG suit, she fled in her HiZak. The information about the blind spot could have been shared along with the colony drop notification, so what was the point? Arbite fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 17, 2021 |
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May 17, 2021 17:01
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tsob posted:I don't know about making a thematic argument for it, but I can see someone painting him as suicidal in the first few episodes and I think it's about the only explanation possible for his behaviour in the first episode or two personally. Once Zechs gets a leg lock on the Wing using a Leo, Heero appears to just...give up. The Wing crashes into the ocean with no resistence, despite it happening up in the clouds and the Wing being a flying unit that should have enough thrust to at least slow his descent, if not outright fly while bound by the Leo. It's also not like the leg lock is particularly complete, and Heero should be able to shuck the Leo off without much issue given the fact it's just a single leg bound around one of the Wing's legs. Instead, it just crashes into the ocean, and Heero decides to blow it up immediately while seeming like he wants to die himself. I think maybe Heero takes the fact he was seen by someone who survived, i.e. Zechs, as a failure, and puts the secrecy of his mission over his own life but Wing's writing is so hectic that it's hard to make sense of really. Duo has a conversation with Quatre after the Wing is destroyed that implies he's also suicidal, so It seems the Pilots were either chosen out of nepotism Quatre, RealTrowa. Or finding people young, fanatical, and with enough of a death wish to accomplish a suicide mission Just finished Ep 12 The weirdest thing is that while the plot is all over the place, the actual character work so far is very consistent, Each member of the Gundam team and all the OZ peeps act totally in line with their characters. One thing that's odd is that Wufei and Heero are the only two of the five who have anything resembling the start of an arc so far. Qautre, Trowa, and Duo only have a few lines tossed off to show where they might be heading but no real movement on the Characters yet. I gotta say Sally Po is pretty good character for someone I don't remember at all, this is also the first Episode without Relena. Unless you count Heero hallucinating her when he wakes up. The whole plot of this episode was giving me some real Uoodu from votoms vibes. Introducing and killing off such a lame villain in one episode was real weak poo poo though. Especially with how incompetent he is, the Shenlong is totally unguarded and his Leo's and Aries spend the whole time killing rebels, civilians, and eachother instead of attacking the one machine capable of taking them out. The noventa Cannon is pretty cool, like a mini Stonehenge I do have zero idea what areas are controlled by OZ and which by the Former Alliance. Mueller and the other guy are lame as gently caress. I don't know how the Colonies haven't achieved independence yet. OZ and the Alliance are annihilating themselves. Zechs is insane. Mueller massacred surrendering soldiers, but I'm rebuilding the Wing so we're pretty much the same level of repulsive Oh now Trowa is suicidal. Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 01:00 on May 18, 2021 |
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May 18, 2021 00:38
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It's hard to tell how consistent the characterisation is at times because characters having batshit theories about each other is like half the plot, which is pivoting wildly at all times. People representing one thing to the world but being something completely different in reality/in practice is a common theme. There's split personalities, fake names, amnesia and oh did we forget to tell you you're adopted?
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May 18, 2021 01:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWn8H36HSfk
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May 18, 2021 01:32
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I'm confused. That says "Charcasm" but I don't see Char anywhere. Just AEUG Lt. Quattro.
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May 18, 2021 01:41
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chiasaur11 posted:I'm confused. Only Char could come up burns that good. Quattro is just a student of the master.
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May 18, 2021 01:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:Only Char could come up burns that good. Quattro is just a student of the master. Look, the man in that video has no sleeves. If Char had guns like that, would he cover them up? Obviously not.
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May 18, 2021 01:49
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Would Char give up the visor for  80s glasses?
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May 18, 2021 03:21
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The tragos is such an underrated design.
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May 18, 2021 04:10
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i like how the tragos floats and we don't see float technology anywhere else in the show
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