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I'm so glad that the prevailing opinion is now that ZZ is good because a couple years back the general opinion was that it was poo poo and I thought that was crazy and unjust. This isn't a "I liked ZZ before it was popular" thing, I'm legitimately really happy that other people like the show too because it's one of my favorite UC Gundam productions.
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Oct 30, 2015 03:53
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MonsieurChoc posted:My favorite UC series are F91 and Victory. I feel ya. I loving love F91 for what it could have been. The actual product is basically a frustrating blueball because there's inklings of some really cool stuff there that never got to breathe.
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Oct 30, 2015 04:37
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Omnicrom posted:I really want ZZ Gundam back in Super Robot Wars. It would be nice for the ZZ to be the powerhouse it's always deserved to be. In SRW Alpha 2 and MX it was one of the strongest units in the game. It was also really good in Alpha 3, though it was competing with lots more crazy bullshit. It hasn't actually been in a SRW since Alpha 3 though, which released literally a decade ago.
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Oct 30, 2015 06:26
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Son Ryo posted:It was in OE. Everything was in OE, but OE doesn't count.
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Oct 30, 2015 15:35
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Begemot posted:The Tallgeese is weird because it's not a prototype for the gundams, it's a prototype for mobile suits in general. It's like 20 years old at the start of the show and still somehow miles ahead of everything until the gundams show up. The problem they ran into with the suits in Wing wasn't that they couldn't make suits on par or better than the Tallgeese's performance all along, it's that it was functionally pointless to do so because of the limitations of the human frame. Having a super duper sweet rear end top of the line mobile suit is worthless if no one can pilot it without pulping their organs or blacking out and crashing the thing into a mountain while unconscious. The mass production junk suits in Wing like Leos and Aries were designed to be actually possible for normal soldiers to operate on a regular basis. Even the Gundams aren't actually as fast or maneuverable as the Tallgeese, they just have nigh invincible armor and far superior weapons.
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Oct 31, 2015 04:31
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tsob posted:I think even Full Frontal is a better pilot than Char to be honest, because Full Frontal is a partial clone who tried to mimick the image of what people thought Char was rather than mimicking the actual Char. He tried to become what he thought people imagined Char was so he concentrated more on being a pilot and strategist than on all the revenge and newtype neurosis and such that defined Char in reality. It's why he was able to come up with a plan like the Sides Co-Prosperity Sphere that had a high chance of working, but was kind of cold and calculating, as opposed to Char who came up with a riskier plan that was pretty insane but did fall in line with his and his father's beliefs regarding Contolism. Full Frontal had just as much newtype neurosis as the original, it was just focused around his insane vessel nonsense instead of Char's daddy issues. Both of them were defined by nihilism in the end. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Oct 31, 2015 |
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Oct 31, 2015 15:13
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Darth Walrus posted:Angelo was pretty loving scary. For all his goofiness, Mashmyre was a decent pilot, but what Angelo managed to do in the Rozen Zulu managed to make his performance in the Hamma Hamma (basically the same suit) look downright pathetic. Start of ZZ Mashymre was basically a barely competent clown who was given command of a ship due to his fanatic loyalty, so his performance in the Hamma Hamma isn't really a high bar to clear. Only after he got Cyber Newtyped did Mashymre become a scary motherfucker.
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Oct 31, 2015 18:36
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Darth Walrus posted:Nah, he was always a decent pilot, technically speaking. His big problem was that he was chivalrous, soft-hearted, and had no loving idea how war was supposed to work. If he was a decent pilot he sure didn't show it.
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Oct 31, 2015 19:39
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WrightOfWay posted:Char really doesn't deserve his reputation. His last big victory was in the Battle of Loum back in the One Year War and that was before the Feddies even had mobile suits. Past that his only real achievements are just not dying to Amuro and Haman (despite getting shot down by both of them). The simple fact that he managed to fight Amuro so many times while managing to not die says a fair bit about how good he is, given the relative track record of, you know, every other person in the OYW who ran up against the RX-78. Similarly his fight with Haman is impressive because the Hyaku Shiki was an outdated piece of poo poo at the very outset of Zeta, nevermind matched up against a bleeding edge Newtype mobile suit.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:58
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tsob posted:That seems a little unduly harsh on the Hyaku Shiki. It wasn't even around at the start of the series and was built during testing for the Zeta so can't be that far off the curve. It's obviously below the Zeta in terms of performance, but I doubt it's by a huge amount and it has a decent selection of weaponry and stuff too. It seems like it's main detraction compared to the Zeta is an inability to transform and the straight line speed that allows. Those things are nice, but not exactly essential. The Hyaku Shiki is like the Methuss in that both are both simply testbed units designed to test specific mobile suit design quirks to be incorporated into later mobile suits. In the case of the Methuss it was transformation mechanisms, and in the case of the Hyaku Shiki it was the wing binders; the Hyaku Shiki was meant to have a full transformation system too, but the frame literally wasn't able to handle the stress without breaking apart so they scrapped that idea because they didn't have time to fix it because they were scrambling to get something, anything into the field. They gave it a drat coat of anti-beam paint for armor. It's basically a slightly uptweaked Gundam mk2, but given that the Hyaku Shiki arrives around the point of the series where the mk2 is becoming so outdated that they need the G Defensor to even keep it relevant, being a slightly better mk2 isn't strong advertising. Hell, the mk2 wasn't even particularly impressive at the start of Zeta. The mk2 itself is a testbed unit for the movable frame rather than a high performance superweapon like the original RX-78, and every Titans grunt from basically the moment Scirocco arrived was equal or superior to it.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:41
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Droyer posted:You keep being down on Anti-Beam Coating, but isn't it supposed to be straight up more effective than conventional armor? Nearly every mech since has had at least it's sheild coated in ABC, and the crossbone's only defenses were capes coated with the stuff. Beam coating shields and ABC Mantles work because they're applied to parts that are totally disposable. The anti-beam paint on the Hyaku Shiki is basically non-functional, as evidenced by how the Qubeley's funnels dissect it effortlessly. Kanos fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 05:56
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Darth Walrus posted:Literally every time a late-UC suit takes a beam hit to its shield. Regular armour is almost completely useless against beam weaponry (with the exception of some large and superbly-engineered machines like the The O), which is why movable-frame technology (and thus transforming suits) exist in the first place. Properly-coated metal shields - and later, beam shields - are very important to UC suit combat. You also have the occasional unit with an I-Field shield as an intermediate step between beam coating shields and full on beam shields, like the Rozen Zulu, the Unicorn, and the Banshee.
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Nov 2, 2015 02:27
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muike posted:technically *pushes glasses up nose* i would say the i-field is a more advanced defensive measure than beam shields It actually is, but beam shields are both a lot easier for mobile suits to use and a lot more useful against 99% of opponents because they work against both beams and physical attacks, as well as you being able to cut a motherfucker in half with a beam shield because a beam shield is literally just a shield-shaped beam saber. The only beams that an I-Field can handle that a beam shield can't are super powerful stuff like VSBRs and mega particle cannons and such.  Actually since beam shields are almost exactly just shield-shaped beam saber generators I'm pretty confused why nobody thought of the idea until 50 years after mobile suits first hit the field, especially given the insanely fast pace of MS tech development.
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Nov 2, 2015 06:26
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If you started around SEED and watched everything new that came out since SEED, you've watched a bunch of shows that are self-contained universes unrelated to the Universal Century timeline that Unicorn and the Origin fall into.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:21
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Droyer posted:The Unicorn's bazooka fires beam shrapnel right? i mean it's not literally shrapnel but it has the same effect. I'm pretty sure it just fires normal fragmentation shells. I'm almost positive it's not a beam bazooka.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:04
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Droyer posted:They're the same color as beams in the same scene and they make sci-fi noises so i figured they were beams. Unicorn takes a lot of somewhat inconsistent artistic liberties with its projectile colors. The Unicorn's bog standard normal head vulcans fire glowing blue bullets, which is slightly confusing since the Delta Plus's beam rifle fires glowing blue beams.
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Nov 3, 2015 06:04
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Srice posted:I wanna say they did some of that for SEED since it attracted a crowd that'd be into that? Might be misrembering tho They pushed character merch really hard for the SEED shows and it sold like gangbusters. They tried to bottle lightning again with 00 and do the same thing except it didn't do nearly as well; it wasn't coincidental that 00's endings were Pretty Boy Gundam Meister Fashion Catwalk followed by Pretty Boy Gundam Meisters Hanging Out On A Beach Giving Each Other Haircuts.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:33
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Sharkopath posted:i dont think actively planning around characters you can sell is the right mindset either because there's no real actual path to predict what makes a character popular, lots of the time people latch onto minor characters because of some small facet that they identify with. I agree with you, actually. I'm just saying that they most definitely have pushed character merch based around Gundam shows as a major part of their merchandising before.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:28
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NikkolasKing posted:MSG and its "spiritual successor" have clear ideas of war but what about Wing and 00, the other two most alike Gundams? You said show by show basis, after all. I never could understand what 00 was getting at, especially since CB's terrorism ended up working perfectly. Celestial Being's terrorism achieved its stated goal of ending world conflict, but it most certainly didn't work perfectly. The resulting world government was a fascist nightmare run by what amounts to the Titans which took a fair amount of work to fix.
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Nov 5, 2015 06:03
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Well, it is only a regular Zaku II in a different shade of green and with gold stickers, it's not like they had to design anything new. A big heat hawk!
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Nov 5, 2015 21:09
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Logicblade posted:I'm reminded again how awesome Sergei Smirnov is. And I'm just laughing at how hard the Trinities got played in season 1. The Trinities were truly impressive insofar as they were basically genetically engineered to fail at everything they did. They were allowed one moment of unbridled success(the rescue in the desert) and then every other battle they ever fought that wasn't against unarmed civilians was a total blowout in their opponents' favor. Even Nena ultimately completely failed at her goal in the end.
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Nov 10, 2015 22:10
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Erg posted:If I'm not super concerned with learning about the backstories and character tropes of Gundam and mostly want spectacle and nice animation which series would I want to watch? If you don't give a poo poo about stories or characters and just want amazing animation of robots kicking the poo poo out of each other, Build Fighters S1, Unicorn, and 0083 are the best shows to watch.
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Nov 10, 2015 22:56
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Droyer posted:Personally, i dislike the term filler. It's got a weird stigma attached to it, and episodic stories aren't automatically bad, even if they're part of a larger story. I don't mind the term so much as the negative connotations it receives. Filler episodes that don't materially advance the main plot can still be really good and provide interesting insight into the characters, add depth to the world, or simply be super fun. The Surfing Turn A episode of Try that people herald as one of the better fights in that series was purestrain filler through and through that had only a tangential relationship with the main plot. A pie without filling would taste pretty bland!
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Nov 11, 2015 20:46
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Sakurazuka posted:18 minutes, seriously? It's not unprecedented. Stargazer was also super short.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:47
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Erg posted:I do not know what being very very Tomino means Tomino doesn't make allowances for his audience's easy comprehension in terms of narrative. His style is very much based around giving the viewer a window into events that are happening in his world instead of specifically narrating a story, so there won't be big scrawls of "IN THE REGUILD CENTURY, MANKIND WAS NOW AT WAR...." or anything. Some people get very confused and put out because the show spoonfeeds you basically nothing and a lot of major plot details you need to pick up simply from character dialogue.
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Nov 27, 2015 02:25
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tsob posted:That might be the most unrealistic thing in Gundam ever: the idea that a society could go hundreds of years without a war of any kind is just mind-boggling. Also, I'm pretty sure the second and third part of that statement could apply to any modern war, not just World War I. Shell shock was still seen in general as cowardice in World War II as far as I know as well. Real life hasn't had an apocalyptic war that quite nearly destroyed all of civilization(including things getting so bad that society degenerated into loving institutionalized cannibalism) followed by several organizations like the Capital being set up to play referee over all of humanity to ensure it never, ever happens again by controlling the energy supply. That system proved so effective that even at the hands of some severely incompetent leadership it worked right up until a man on the inside(Cumpa) actively sabotaged the arrangement in every way possible.
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Dec 5, 2015 03:20
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The amount of love and care that went into Build Fighters's fight choreography trumps the vast majority of robot shows out there; the show has like half a dozen fights that would put the big finales of many shows to shame. The cast is great and fun, the story is silly and entertaining, and it's simply a fantastic product all around. It's not deep serious war drama like most Gundam is(or is supposed to be), but it's not at all trying to be that way and it goes its own way.
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Dec 6, 2015 20:33
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Three Cookies posted:I forgot Gundam 00 had the craziest gift of the magi moment when Saji tries to give Louise a ring only to discover that terrorists had blown off her fingers. Until Build Fighters came out, 00 S1 was my go to "Best 21st Century Gundam Production". It sure as hell wasn't perfect, but it was pretty great and as a bonus functions perfectly well as a standalone story if you prefer not acknowledging S2 or the movie.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:06
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That's because when poo poo goes bad, Amuro descends into paranoia, Char descends into nihilism, Bright descends into exhausted frustration, Kamille descends into anger, and Kai descends into sarcasm.
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Jan 8, 2016 01:47
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Azubah posted:Watch it afterwards because the new scenes have really nice animation. If the whole movie trilogy had been animated like the patchwork of new scenes it would have been worth watching even though they basically destroyed the plot.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:31
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Deikun was a pretty prolific and beloved public speaker who would have made his ideals clear to the public many times in many speeches, so if he was a purely peaceful Ghandi-esque figure it would be pretty loving weird for the Zabis to be able to co-opt his message into "Let's drop colonies on the filthy Earthnoids in the name of glorious Zeon Independence". The ease at which the Zabis cashed in on Zeon's death suggests very strongly that the ideology they were pushing wasn't very far removed from Zeon's publicly stated ideals in the first place.
Kanos fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 21:26
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The Zabis started a war that killed over half the human population. The post-OYW Zeon movements are nominally anti-Zabi and acting in what they claim is Deikun's name, specifically denouncing the Zabis' actions. This reading doesn't fit with the established material at all. The Delaz fleet was lead by a man who had an iron hard boner for Gihren Zabi and everything about his legacy. As Nikkolas said, Haman's Axis Zeon was literally using Mineva Zabi as a puppet figurehead for legitimacy and the Sleeves wanted to do the exact same thing except she slipped the noose, and even then when she gave her great big speech at the end she dolled herself up in a Zeon uniform and announced herself as Mineva Leo Zabi before giving the speech because she knew that it would make people care. The Zabis were basically just as canonized as Deikun was and the only one who ran a faction of Zeon that was nominally anti-Zabi and purely pro-Deikun was Char himself who promptly blew it all away on a suicide mission. The biggest danger of fascism is that fascism is seductive to a lot of people as long as they can be convinced that the benefits outweigh the costs, and usually charismatic fascist leaders do this by convincing the people of a state that they're under existential threat from something that only the leader's faction can protect them from, be it a minority, another nation, etc. It's not even an unpopular ideology today as long as fascists are careful to never actually throw a Hitler salute or mention that they're fascists. For a real life example in action, tune in to the Trump campaign. Kanos fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 18:48
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) and that probably won't be the case any more.
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I said nominally for a reason; Char's neo-Zeon are certainly anti-Zabi, but it's not something universal to all the post-OYW Zeon factions. When every major Zeonic movement is pro-Zabi except for one it's really hard to argue that Zeonic movements are nominially anti-Zabi. Even Char didn't open up his big speeches in CCA by talking about how the Zabis were shitheads, he just didn't mention them and we only know that Char's Neo Zeon was anti-Zabi because Char loving hates them on a personal level. Begemot posted:I think part of the problem is that in the UC especially it's hard to separate the idea of independence for the colonies from zeon. And arguing too hard on the other side of that turns into a weird apologia for imperialism. It's really hard to effectively emphasize exactly how insane and incomprehensible the OYW death toll is. The simple fact that the Federation didn't erase Side 3 from existence and execute every single surviving Zeon officer over the rank of lieutenant for nightmarish war crimes after the end of the war is a loving credit to how restrained and benevolent the Federation's response to Zeon was relative to how we would react to such a calamity in real life. For all the Federation's sins they quite literally fought an existential war for the survival of the majority of humanity, won, and then had to deal with continual revivals of the same enemy repeatedly for half a century and managed to do it without going full spacenoid genocide at any point. Even the Titans weren't representative of the Federation's policies as a whole. When every single Zeon movement that ever springs up is led by either a conquering dictator/monarch, an insane genocidal murderer, or some combination of both, it begins to become really questionable why even people who support the ideals of colonial independence continually canonize Zeon. It's like taking up the cause of a strong and independent Germany by picking up a Nazi flag and putting on an armband.
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Jan 15, 2016 19:24
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boom boom boom posted:Even in the show, people acknowledge that it was a bad idea. The only person in the entire show who thinks the bikini commando squad is a good idea is Katejina, and unfortunately for all involved Katejina was both insane and in a position of authority at the time.
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Jan 16, 2016 06:24
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muike posted:I thought it was because of the smell, not because it was difficult for them to breathe It is. Chronicle is a snooty upper class colony guy who thinks that the Earth is super stinky, so his mask is the equivalent to someone holding a handkerchief to their face because somebody ripped a nasty fart.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:00
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There's absolutely no competition for Worst Char as long as Chronicle exists. Maybe Zeheart, but at least Zeheart occasionally at least comes close to accomplishing things. Chronicle starts the series getting his rear end kicked by a 13 year old and it pretty much goes downhill from there until it ends with an audible clunk. The only thing that puts him above Jerid in how relatively pathetic he is is that the protagonist at least consistently remembers his name before tossing him in a dumpster. This is the final epic conflict between Usso and Chronicle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4ewYRrv7s Kanos fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 13:15
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Droyer posted:Anyone in this thread who's seen G gundam but none of Imagawa's other works: G gundam is the worst thing he's done in my opinion. This is not a statement about G gundam being bad, but everything else he's done being fantastic He did script writing for Violinist of Hamelin's TV series, and that show was not so good. Getter Armageddon is a fun but not so amazing production, though you can only credit him for episodes 1-3 and those are some of the best in the show, so it doesn't count against him. This statement is otherwise broadly true, even though I love G Gundam to death and it's one of my favorite Gundam productions. I think G is one of the few entries in the series which is centered almost entirely around character development rather than focused on broader philosophical and political conflicts, which is why I think it's so unique. There's a big battle for the fate of the world and a world-destroying superweapon on the loose but those are just a backdrop for the real story which is Domon learning to be a better person with the help of a lot of people.
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Jan 20, 2016 01:51
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Arcsquad12 posted:Yessssss... It's also an accurate depiction of how you're meant to play Gihren's Ambition as the Federation for the first 15-20 turns.
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Jan 20, 2016 11:27
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Generally in Gundam the more "tactical" a suit looks the more I tend to dislike it. Looking at a lot of Advance of Zeta suits just leaves me cold because most of them look like they took an existing design and bolted a fuckload of dumb ugly poo poo to it. It reminds me of when you see pictures of rednecks at a shooting range with tactical night scopes and laser pointers and bayonet lugs and flashlights stuck to their rifle.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:12
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Xinder posted:The worst part of this is that I'm starting to like Bright less. His character seems to be weakened from "hardass who isn't afraid to smack a bitch to get things done" to a complete pushover. He lets Judau get away with so much that Amuro or Kamille would have gotten a "correction" across the face for. You need to remember that Bright and the Argama bridge crew are going into ZZ straight off the back of the apocalyptic doom war at the end of Zeta. The series takes place like two weeks after the end of Zeta. Bright has seen a lot of good people die, vanish, or be permanently crippled fighting a long and agonizing war against the Titans and his reward for all of this death and hardship is to realize he immediately has to start from scratch and begin fighting a brand new war against a brand new enemy, except this time he has even fewer resources to work with because the AEUG was basically totally destroyed. It's also possible that he's beginning to realize that no matter how many wars he fights, the "good guys" are never going to win in his lifetime and there will always be a new fuckhead to deal with.
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Jan 22, 2016 10:43
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