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Motorola 68000
Apr 25, 2014

"Don't be nice. Be good."
There has been a lot of talk recently on the net about the Trans-Pacific Partnership(TPP). I just want to know how this is different form other trade agreements made between the US and other countries. Why is everyone so against it and is there any way it will actually be good for the global economy.

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Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

Corporations in america are rear end hole idiots and the TPP lets corporations from other countries be rear end hole idiots in america too.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



Most obvious answer is so much of the negotiation has taken place behind closed doors, and there is currently a large (and well founded) amount of distrust in the US government at the moment.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

Free trade benefits everybody on aggregate. The question is how those gains are divvyed within each country, and the answer in the US is basically "in a pretty lovely way."

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



Vegetable posted:

Free trade benefits everybody on aggregate. The question is how those gains are divvyed within each country, and the answer in the US is basically "in a pretty lovely way."

From what I've seen (and I have NO idea how accurate this is), a hell of a lot of it revolves around IP and patents. That would benefit the US in a huge way, but mostly large corporations.

SSH IT ZOMBIE
Apr 19, 2003
No more blinkies! Yay!
College Slice
It drops patent length on medicine, at least for the US, so it's 7 or 8 years across the board. That is good for Americans whilst loving over a few other countries.

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004
The EFF has good arguments against the TPP from the perspective of protecting freedom of expression and the nature of the Internet: https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

It drops patent length on medicine, at least for the US, so it's 7 or 8 years across the board. That is good for Americans whilst loving over a few other countries.

How is that bad for anyone other than the pharmacy companies?

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

I think 7 or 8 years is much higher than it is in other countries - so, bad for us non-Americans.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Shooting Blanks posted:

Most obvious answer is so much of the negotiation has taken place behind closed doors, and there is currently a large (and well founded) amount of distrust in the US government at the moment.

All treaties are negotiated behind closed doors.

yogizh
Oct 12, 2015
Dumb Helicopter Joke Enthusiast
All things like borderless trade and common currencies harm small nations which rely on trade instead of an army.
During 2008 crisis many EU countries got hit by competition from the huge corporations because we had to trade for € which became
too expensive for trade partners that don't use € or have weaker currencies.

Current example would be Czech Republic (EU member, but still uses CZK). To make their products "cheaper" to export, their central bank
is holding the exchange rate artificialy at about 27 CZK for 1 € since earlier this year. Results, hell yea. Uneployment rate dropped to
a long time minimum. Czech Tesco displays percentage of Czech made products sold at the doors of each shop. It fluctuates pretty much
between 75-90 %.

Meanwhile in Slovakia where I live, we have €, very little control of "our" economy and one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe.
We dropped from food production independent to only about 30 % of Slovak products being in stores. We've became the
Detroit of Europe, with 1,5 million cars made in a country of 5,5 million people. One would think, "Oh nice, jobs, cheap cars, developement."
But hey, we all know how that worked out for Detroit after the glorious years.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

That's mostly an argument against the single currency though, which is not part of the TPP.

rdb
Jul 8, 2002
chicken mctesticles?
It will be good for the global economy, bad for US manufacturing and agriculture jobs. Like NAFTA except on a global scale.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
This whole TTIP idea that corporations should be able to sue governments is pretty hosed up.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012

His Divine Shadow posted:

This whole TTIP idea that corporations should be able to sue governments is pretty hosed up.

This, specifically ISDS which makes it possible, you don't want fracking in your country? gently caress you, we'll sue you.

I saw a documentary on ISDS recently and it is really amazing to see Canada being sued left and right by American companies because "they don't favour trade".

yogizh
Oct 12, 2015
Dumb Helicopter Joke Enthusiast

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

This, specifically ISDS which makes it possible, you don't want fracking in your country? gently caress you, we'll sue you.

I saw a documentary on ISDS recently and it is really amazing to see Canada being sued left and right by American companies because "they don't favour trade".

Romania owns. People figured out a more retarded suicidal way to get rich than oil platforms and called it fracking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMsPQSDO07A

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


rdb posted:

It will be good for the global economy, bad for US manufacturing and agriculture jobs. Like NAFTA except on a global scale.

actually i don't think it would affect US agriculture, the big sticker in the deal is/was actually japanese rice subsidies. if anything it might be good for us agriculture because of how much more efficient and mechanized it is compared to everywhere else. and manufacturing jobs are already dead in the US thanks to China, not NAFTA

the real problem with it is draconian IP extensions and pharmaceutical licensing, and also the arbitration poo poo literally signing away the right to regulate business at a national level

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Oct 21, 2015

Teriyaki Koinku
Nov 25, 2008

Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Vegetable posted:

Free trade benefits everybody on aggregate. The question is how those gains are divvyed within each country, and the answer in the US is basically "in a pretty lovely way."

Except, you know, the unpeople in "Free Trade Zones."

Doctor Malaver
May 23, 2007

Ce qui s'est passé t'a rendu plus fort
There's also a thread about it in D&D.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3725584

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

TheRamblingSoul posted:

Except, you know, the unpeople in "Free Trade Zones."
I have no idea what you're trying to insinuate.

TheGreySpectre
Sep 18, 2012

You let the wolves in. Why would you do that?
I'm concerned about some of the IP provisions in it, or at least what was in the leaked drafts. It tends to be more global scale DMCA type stuff which I don't think is a good implementaiton.

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004

TheGreySpectre posted:

I'm concerned about some of the IP provisions in it, or at least what was in the leaked drafts. It tends to be more global scale DMCA type stuff which I don't think is a good implementaiton.

Yep. It also reverts some changes recently made to DMCA, e.g. TPP provides no exemption to the copyright violation clauses for people performing good-faith security research.

The text of TPP is available now and it's not good.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/release-full-tpp-text-after-five-years-secrecy-confirms-threats-users-rights

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yogizh
Oct 12, 2015
Dumb Helicopter Joke Enthusiast
Most countries in Europe have constitutional ban on all kinds of mass surveillance (except individual cases when police wants to shut down your meth lab).
Yes they can track you, but they can't use the results in court, randomly.

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