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  • Locked thread
Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


King Burgundy posted:

I can speak to this a little bit because I've decided I'm probably never going to use mine and it doesn't seem especially useful to me in this kind of game. I have an ability to cause a wound to someone not in combat. I thought this was a super cool ability that would let me wound someone in the other thread that wasn't in combat, but no, it is only usable on people in this thread. So I guess it's supposed to be the equivalent of a town half-vig or something? Seems pretty drat useless to me now.

But obviously someone else has the same ability then and used it on Asiina? Maybe a scum version?

This claim makes me a little less sure about my read on KB. I don't see why scum would bother claiming it, especially if it was used on Asii.

KB, if you are legit then you should use it like any town would use a regular night-vig, try to hit scum.

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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


EccoRaven posted:

My main suspicion is merk as I've said earlier today, a suspicion that none of you have bothered to talk about at all (aside from a handful of people going "oh yeah merk is def town" for no reason).

There's something about merk I'm finding suspicious but I'm really uncertain cause our last game together I was convinced he was scum and got him lynched and it turned out I was wrong. I don't want to make the same mistake again just out of desire to prove I'm better than him. I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it at least.

EccoRaven posted:

I would not be opposed to another lurker vote today. I know it might not be politically palatable but it feels like the best maneuver strategically, if only because of the battle mechanics.

I don't like this idea, policy lurker lynches worked terribly for us yesterday and that's why we've been dragged right back into the merk/Ecco mess today. I think whatever we do today it needs to leave us with more directions for discussion tomorrow.

Cartridgeblowers
Jan 3, 2006

Super Mario Bros 3




Bowmore is mostly based on meta. If I were to throw meta out the window, I'd read null on him.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Rarity posted:

This claim makes me a little less sure about my read on KB. I don't see why scum would bother claiming it, especially if it was used on Asii.

KB, if you are legit then you should use it like any town would use a regular night-vig, try to hit scum.

I dunno, my take away is the opposite. claiming some sort of role with uncertain use is a pretty good cover. at a glance his power seems like it may have some utility for town.. especially because it's not a full vig which can be bad for town in the wrong hands and his post has the 'helpful townie' sticker of approval on this sort of approach.

so yeah, i'm a little bit uncomfortable with the claim here, it wasn't really necessary imo

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Little Mac posted:

Bowmore is mostly based on meta. If I were to throw meta out the window, I'd read null on him.

In the games I've played with scum-bowmore in the past, he engages a bit at the start and then dials it back to a few posts a day and lets the conversation happen around him.

interestingly one of the first thing he says to me is to throw my meta out the window. that was a bit after I had made the following post

Beetphyxious posted:

..Bowmore: intense isn't your scumtell. going awol late game is your scumtell...

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Beetphyxious posted:

I dunno, my take away is the opposite. claiming some sort of role with uncertain use is a pretty good cover.

I'm not sure what you mean by uncertain use. It's pretty clear to me what it's intended for.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



lol

bowmore posted:

I believe merk, I was very surprised ecco wasn't the lynch yesterday

##vote ecco

glad you graced us with your presence today bowmore. see you tomorrow i guess?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Rarity posted:

I'm not sure what you mean by uncertain use. It's pretty clear to me what it's intended for.

no i mean the whole 'oh i've got a power, im not sure if it's useful, i dunno' *pouts*, *looks uncertain*.


then others come along and reassure them.



that's what i mean. it's a tops play because vanilla town want to be helpful so they jump at the chance to help a power role if it comes up and then obviously they're not suss on that person.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 2

EccoRaven (2): merk, bowmore
wins32767 (1): Little Mac
Verr (1): Asiina

Not Voting (11): Beetphyxious, CCKeane, EccoRaven, FoxTerrier, King Burgundy, Opopanax, Rarity, TMMadman, Tommunist, Verr, wins32767

With 15 alive, it's 8 votes to lynch. The current deadline is October 23rd, 2015 at 8 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 11 hours.

Day 2 is Standard Majority!

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Can we no lynch? If we can, why wouldn't we do that? Game isn't won by removing all scum. It's won by having more numbers than opposing thread as long as possible.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Little Mac posted:

Don't disagree.

Cpig I'm calling you out. What is your purpose? You voted Ecco for no reason afaik other than to bandwagon. Then you switched to Mithross with no explanation. Explain please.

Asiina, please explain why you chose Diqnol instead of Ecco, the obvious choice.

Beetphyxious, who are you? Hi!

TheNabster I'm assuming you requested a replacement! You can't respond to this maybe?

Hi! I'm a Gemini and love posters who become really active on day 2 after a few callouts for lurking on day 1. How about you?


bullshit aside I voted you yesterday because you seemed the safe option out of the lurker bunch. no hard feelings yo. glad you've found the post button today. what do you want to know from me? i'm annoyed our cop wasted a night, i'm annoyed a supposed top town player is tunneling on a single person, i'm curious why no one is mentioning there was no night kill last night. maybe the scum team is dumb too?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



merk posted:

Can we no lynch? If we can, why wouldn't we do that? Game isn't won by removing all scum. It's won by having more numbers than opposing thread as long as possible.

the game ends when one of the kings dies, yes? we're not gonna catch scum from not voting, but every mislynch takes us closer to a loss.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Beetphyxious posted:

the game ends when one of the kings dies, yes? we're not gonna catch scum from not voting, but every mislynch takes us closer to a loss.

Every lynch period takes us closer to a loss. The only difference is if we lynch all scum at least one night before the king takes battle. In that situation, we would be saved from one extra nightkill.

I've never seen that happen in a soldiers game. If we can no lynch, why not?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


I like this logic

##vote no lynch

NO MODS NO MASTERS

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3771 days!


I fail to see how no lynching helps us. Sure, maybe scum die during the battle, but we also don't see how people react while being pressured.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that the guy who is so sure he has found scum in Ecco that he isn't even going to look elsewhere is now asking about a no lynch?

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

TMMadman posted:

I fail to see how no lynching helps us. Sure, maybe scum die during the battle, but we also don't see how people react while being pressured.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that the guy who is so sure he has found scum in Ecco that he isn't even going to look elsewhere is now asking about a no lynch?

Let me put it this way: We would rather have a scum player in battle instead of the King. We would rather have a full battle filled with scum players instead of the King. We lose when our King goes into battle and gets killed. Anything we can do to delay that from happening, the better.

I'm not sure how else to phrase it. Your post shows that you didn't really think about this at all before mashing the Reply button. Or maybe you did and are scum.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

...and yes, I am sure Ecco is scum. If we lynch someone today, I am going to advocate that it be Ecco. However, lynching someone when we don't have to does not advance our win condition (except in the one off shoot scenario I described initially which will never happen), regardless of whether we lynch scum or not.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Oh wait, if the scum do get a majority, they can lynch the King and win. I forgot about that. We do need to trim their numbers.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


merk posted:

Oh wait, if the scum do get a majority, they can lynch the King and win. I forgot about that. We do need to trim their numbers.

But merk... no mods... no masters... :qq:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


For real though this is the best lynch for today ##vote Little Mac

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

EccoRaven posted:

merk a better mafia player than I once said that anyone can make a three bulletpoint case on someone else in 15 minutes on their phone.

you haven't even done that.

Hey, while I'm building a case on you, I never said this. I said that you can make a solid case in fifteen minutes. I don't think it's reasonable to make a solid case in fifteen minutes from a phone.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

##vote Ecco

Ecco:
  • has played the scum 'survive at all costs' playbook;
  • discredited votes on him rather than try to determine the alignments behind the votes (until the survival playbook required attack);
  • switched a lynch on him to two lurkers, thereby giving us no information; and
  • has not produced a case or read that feels genuine in any way.

Has Played the Scum 'Survive At All Costs' Playbook

Have you heard of the 12 stages of Grief? On day 1, Ecco played the 6 stages of Survival. His strategy in the thread overtly changed throughout the day as he came up with a new way that he thought might help him survive. Here they are:

1. Discredit the People Voting You

Ecco did not care about the alignment behind the players voting him. Instead, he attacked posts as 'bad' or 'silly' or, worse yet, rephrased the vote to put his own justification behind why it was made. This isn't scum hunting.

Here are some examples:

Discrediting ->

EccoRaven posted:

imo these are bad answers

EccoRaven posted:

it is a bad post.

EccoRaven posted:

I think KB's evasion of the question and case against me is pretty bad. Still deciding if it's dumb or scum though.

EccoRaven posted:

that's a little unreasonable.

I think this is a pretty silly vote merk.

EccoRaven posted:

those are nonsense opinions!

EccoRaven posted:

nah those are some dumb votes too.

EccoRaven posted:

They're nonsense posts. Sorry you guys made posts of nonsense!

EccoRaven posted:

Diqnol's point is dumb too

EccoRaven posted:

It reads like KB made a dumb post

EccoRaven posted:

you're kind of wrong then.

Misrepresentation ->

EccoRaven posted:

nobody disagreed with you? also I'm pretty sure merk's vote is a grumpyvote over my cipher while Diqnol's is still kinda nonsense, so, I wouldn't be too pleased with yourself.

merk posted:

I voted you because your attempt to spark content went nowhere and you made no attempt to make it go anywhere but nowhere.

EccoRaven posted:

"you asked for content and it didn't help!"

2. Attack the People Voting You

When your attempts to discredit players voting you does not change the tone of the thread, you switch to attacking those players.

On me:

EccoRaven posted:

oh yeah going with the time honored slurs of "nonsense" and "silly." I'm a veritable Tarantino.

I try to only say posts are bad, not people. I *cannot* believe you wanted to not read my post because I called your vote nonsense (and then immediately explained why - because it made no sense). I *cannot* believe you read my post despite the vicious slurs and didn't have your mind changed (or for that matter didn't have a thing to say at all either way other than chastising me for my language).

EccoRaven posted:

hey TMM let's shift this conversation to something more productive for me.

how do you feel about merk?

EccoRaven posted:

hey diqnol how do you feel about merk?

EccoRaven posted:

hey merk do you have any thoughts about the game so far aside from me?

merk posted:

Nope. Playing mostly on a phone this weekend.

EccoRaven posted:

##vote merk

he's been taking a back seat to actual scumhunting today, his "case" against me is not good because its points aren't reflected in reality, and I think he's just playing up his bother by my language to avoid addressing the flaws in his case.

I think he's acting like a parody of himself this game. Since he's genuinely disengaged with the game he's doing what he thinks he'd do as town in this situation, but it rings totally empty.

On Diqnol:

EccoRaven posted:

and that's ultimately my problem Diqnol. You're basing your vote around things that are untrue ("ecco would never do this") and things that are totally and completely hypothetical ("ecco would never do that"). and you seem really, really confident about that all, which feels less like you're genuinely thinking you found scum and more like bravado to make your suspicion sound stronger than it is.

EccoRaven posted:

Diqnol I am sensing a lot of "damned if you do/damned if you don't" from you. the impression seems to be that it doesn't matter if I'm actually scum or not, just that I need to be punished for making a cipher. I need to die because the scum would kill me anyway (but I'm actually scum anyway so the scum wouldn't kill me).

A lot of language there too about me potentially being "a townie hurting the town," which also reads less like you actually think I'm scum and more like you want an out for when I flip town. "It was ecco's fault," you'd say, "the cipher post made them a liability."

EccoRaven posted:

I mean lol:

right here is the money quote. You don't actually think I'm scum. You're voting me for essentially policy reasons, policy reasons which make no sense (one could call them, nonsense). Heck, when I asked you point blank if you thought I was scum you equivocated.

You're setting yourself up so if I die today you get to say it was my fault.

Sum:

EccoRaven posted:

someone help me decide between merk and diqnol

3. Whine and Call for Emotional Pleas to Not Be Lynched

EccoRaven posted:

cool.

this is stupid I waited WEEKS for this game to start and I'm gonna get kicked out before day 1 even finishes.

EccoRaven posted:

hey guys we are less than 24 hours from deadline and I am still halfway to execute. AND we're in Double Plurality. If you don't think I am scum, I ask you, urge you, to coordinate your votes to keep me alive another day. I would very much appreciate it.

I suggest merk as a solid choice for the reasons I've said earlier. Diqnol is a good alternative if you don't wanna vote merk for some reason. Alternatively, getting rid of lurkers is probably the most optimal choice, since active players will invariably be: nightkilled; and/or sent to battle to die.

EccoRaven posted:

I think I have finally run out of things to say and people to say things to.

I am going to be gone for most of tomorrow and might be gone for the deadline. I will be around periodically but I've posted over a hundred times over the past day and a half and I'm very tired now.

I am not scum. Most of the cases against me are without merit, and the one that is is not decisively-so, and I hope for most of you it is outweighed by my frank, forthright, and sincere posting this game.

I don't reasonably expect people to coordinate their votes in such a way that we can vote out two scummy people (rather than me + whoever poor schlump gets the most votes in the next ~17 hours). But we should try, at least.

I think merk has been pretty scummy this game. I think Diqnol's behavior around my cipherclaim has been strange as all get-out. I think a huge number of players need to post more but a few of them stuck out to me as somewhat worse than the rest.

I'm disappointed in the game and myself that I'm probably getting executed on day 1, that this is the ~fifth game in a row I've received a ton of suspicion day 1 for seemingly no reason, made all the more bitter as this time I'm actually town. If it really is me and my fault, I don't quite know what it is, which disappoints me even more because I usually am so self-aware about what I do and how people perceive me. Oh well.

Anyway.

EccoRaven posted:

I have made peace that I am dying today.

We need to have a town consensus for who we want to be the second death. People generally agree that it should be a "lurker," which is very reasonable. If every single one of the lurkers are town then ecco's principle applies: we were probably going to lose anyway.

I have suggested Hiipfire as a solid choice because, of the lurkers, he's the one who is most unlikely to ever provide any substantive content. Little Mac, Asiina, and the like, they've done "bad things" but they're the kind of people who, if they're still non-entities by day 2 or 3 we'll know it's probably because they're scum. We will never get even that out of Hiipfire.

Regardless of who we ultimately pick though we have to be organized. If we vote like we normally do in mafia games it'll assuredly be suboptimal.


4. In the 11th Hour, Present an Awful Alternative to Voting You and, Somehow, Not Even the Two People You Said Were Scum All Day

EccoRaven posted:

I'm totally fine with this.

##vote Asiina

EccoRaven posted:

##vote hiipfire NEXT

This one is the most important, but it is presented last because it happened last.

Has Not Produced a Genuine Case This Whole Game

Read Ecco's case. Actually read them. There is no way he genuinely believes the conclusions in these cases. They are long-winded explanations with misrepresentations littered throughout:

EccoRaven posted:

I know I'm getting a lot of heat right now but hear me out!

King Burgundy is probably scum this game.

1) When asked about his scumtells, he gave a flippant non-answer. Scum would be inclined to not want to reveal their "cards" as it were so early in day 1.

2) He straight up speaks untrue things about his post here. He manufactures a "contradiction" in my posting. It reads less like he genuinely is trying to defend his post and more like he's trying to step away from having said something a little scummy.

(I urge people to read FoxTerrier's post and KB's post side-by-side since this is what started it all. Read them not just for content but also tone. FT's comes off as a sincere examination of her posting after a years-long break, while KB's is a flippant dismissal of the question entirely without looking like he's totally ignoring it.)

3) The entire "ecco is mischaracterizing my posting" situation is ridiculous too. It should have been obvious to any casual reader that I was deliberately being glib but that it wasn't an unfair or uncharitable interpretation at all.


It reads like KB made a dumb post and when he saw the slightest pushback from it he went into defense-mode, hastily attacking me for whatever fault he can think of. It's scummy because I feel like town would have not been as defensive to such minor shade, but it lets him latch on to a bad case early on, letting him look like he's being a Contributing Townie when in reality his points are very hollow.

I'm not 100% on it but I feel pretty good about the vote and I think others should join.

EccoRaven posted:

there's no way a scum player would use all those words on me when I'm in the lead and the only vote on him is me and my case is universally panned.

KB I still think the tone between your post and FT's were very different but I don't think it matters now.

##unvote

someone help me decide between merk and diqnol

The case itself is way too long for an early d1 case, and he moves away from it with a 'no way' read about KB's alignment. This isn't real scum hunting. You don't go from building a huge case like this to completely moving away from it because of a single post from the other side. You prod and feel out the post from the other side and then maybe move away but just by lessening your read. You've seen it time and time again from town, the "hmm, I feel less confident about KB now, switching to [person]."

Ecco instead says there's 'no way' KB is scum now after one single post. That isn't genuine.

EccoRaven posted:

##vote merk

he's been taking a back seat to actual scumhunting today, his "case" against me is not good because its points aren't reflected in reality, and I think he's just playing up his bother by my language to avoid addressing the flaws in his case.

I think he's acting like a parody of himself this game. Since he's genuinely disengaged with the game he's doing what he thinks he'd do as town in this situation, but it rings totally empty.

This fails to account for me being on a phone, says that my points aren't reflected in reality (what?), and says I'm playing a parody of myself. How can this be a legitimate case? Does anyone actually believe these words?

Where is the justification here? How am I parody of myself? How can I be actually disengaged from the game yet taking a back seat to scum hunting be a point against me? This case has no teeth.

EccoRaven posted:

Diqnol I am sensing a lot of "damned if you do/damned if you don't" from you. the impression seems to be that it doesn't matter if I'm actually scum or not, just that I need to be punished for making a cipher. I need to die because the scum would kill me anyway (but I'm actually scum anyway so the scum wouldn't kill me).

A lot of language there too about me potentially being "a townie hurting the town," which also reads less like you actually think I'm scum and more like you want an out for when I flip town. "It was ecco's fault," you'd say, "the cipher post made them a liability."

GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:

I would rather the scum nk someone I hadn't considered and thus impart upon me their character relative to the game dialogue than someone that will inevitably be nked and thus exactly what made sense had happened and our blind hang AND the nk gave us trash information. You might be scum making a gambit, too, so it's a high reward risk I'm taking.

EccoRaven posted:

I mean lol:

right [above] is the money quote. You don't actually think I'm scum. You're voting me for essentially policy reasons, policy reasons which make no sense (one could call them, nonsense). Heck, when I asked you point blank if you thought I was scum you equivocated.

You're setting yourself up so if I die today you get to say it was my fault.

I'm not even going to explain this one. Ecco saw weakness in Diqnol and pounced.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


thank you for actually making a case!

:toot:

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I am leaving for the airport in a few minutes so I'm gonna tap in RARITY to respond to that case for me. if you do that I will owe you one! if you don't no shame no worries! if you find yourself agreeing with the case that is unfortunate but not the end of the world!

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


EccoRaven posted:

I am leaving for the airport in a few minutes so I'm gonna tap in RARITY to respond to that case for me. if you do that I will owe you one! if you don't no shame no worries! if you find yourself agreeing with the case that is unfortunate but not the end of the world!

Huh? Say what now? When did I become your tag team partner? Well, I'm responding to it but only cause I would anyway, you're not the boss of me!

To be honest, merk's got a very well put together case there. Especially point 3, the whole playing on emotions thing is exactly the kind of thing that scum are supposed to do. However, there are parts of it I disagree with as well. I don't see how Ecco's cases weren't coming from a genuine place. Just cause you put up a quote and say "this isn't genuine" doesn't make it so. For example, the thing that started this whole mess with her take on KB, I still think that was legit.

There's one other thing that I've been mulling over cause it was the thing that I was worried about after I saw the D1 flips and merk, I'd like to hear your take on this. It's about your final point in the "scum survival playbook", the bit about Ecco swinging the lynch to two lurkers. Is there any way to justify that move from a town perspective and in the end I think yes. I've talked at length in the discussion thread before about how it's still a townie's duty to keep themselves alive. For those of you who don't read that thread my thinking is that you are confirmed town to yourself, so if you allow yourself to get lynched then you are costing town the only definite town player in the game. Under such thinking, it's better to throw the lynch onto any other player as their alignment is unknown to you so there is a non 0% chance of hitting scum. (Sidenote: I think other people need to start approaching mafia from this strategy, it's been a huge improvement to my town game).

Anyway, here's my point. Ecco had spent most of the day trying to get the lynch on diqnol and merk instead and got very little traction. Under my 'Anyone But Me' theory, at that point redirecting the focus onto a couple of lurkers would be a valid town move. I realise it's almost a valid scum move so what I'm saying is that Ecco setting up the lurker lynches is a null tell. What do you think, merk?

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

The difference is that a strong town player like Ecco doesn't give up on confident reads. Diqnol and me faded into dust. Town Ecco would've been fervently arguing to lynch one of us if he actually believed in either case. He simply wanted to survive.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


merk posted:

The difference is that a strong town player like Ecco doesn't give up on confident reads. Diqnol and me faded into dust. Town Ecco would've been fervently arguing to lynch one of us if he actually believed in either case. He simply wanted to survive.

He didn't give up on the read though cause he as soon as D2 opened he was right back to pressuring you. All he did was table it for a later point. You're ignoring the main idea behind my thinking, the possibility that Ecco was making sure a confirmed town (to himself) didn't get lynched.

FoxTerrier
Feb 15, 2012

Perfectly logical poster who uses the tools available to him to come to solid conclusions



Alright, I got a bagel and a break. Let's see what's happened since I went to bed...

Little Mac posted:

Really I want to vote for Asiina, but there was no counter-claim of an investigative role and I really feel like we would have had one. I feel like Asiina in her right mind would have definitely followed through investigating Ecco (why in the world wouldn't you?!) and her claiming cop in the first place seems a bit unnecessary. Assuming she is a cop-esque role, then she didn't need to claim it then - but neither would scum need to fakeclaim it.

I don't know if I'm following all the logic here. The fact we haven't had a counter-claim doesn't necessarily mean anything, if Asiina was scum the real cop could well be laying low, to try and get some more investigations under their belt before they reveal and make themselves a target.

Agree it's odd she didn't investigate Ecco and also that its also odd she hasn't explained why she chose GP to investigate (although maybe she has since and I just haven't got there yet)

Also I can see the claim being made in desperation both as town or scum. She was on limited time and looking at being caught in a double plurality, so I can see her making that play as someone of either alignment. It's a null read to me. Asiina as a whole is a null read to me at this point, tbh.

Also FWIW I'm sorry things are sucking/difficult for you right now, Asiina. That blows. I hope you're able to have fun in the game again; it really sucks if you aren't and I hope things start getting better for you soon.

Little Mac posted:

Cpig I'm calling you out. What is your purpose? You voted Ecco for no reason afaik other than to bandwagon. Then you switched to Mithross with no explanation. Explain please.

That Cpig had requested a replacement had already been posted beneath the flips at this point; kinda weird you missed it. Possibly scum scanning the game and making an easy call out? Like, the fact the person you voting for and allegedly building a case against requesting a replacement is kind of a big thing to miss.

Little Mac posted:

TheNabster I'm assuming you requested a replacement! You can't respond to this maybe?

Yea same thing here. TheNabster posted in thread that he was replacing out, and it was also posted at the start of the thread (with sirens no less) that Tommunist was coming in. Tommunist also posted a couple pages ago as his replacement, like right after the thread opened too, so...I don't know how you missed that. This is really, really starting to read like disengaged scum scanning the thread and making the easier possible call outs/votes to appear engaged. I really don't like it.

Little Mac posted:

Despite having apparently not played in awhile, this is pretty dumb and obviously not right. Seems willfully obtuse and scummy. Would vote Verr.

I'm going to have to agree with Rarity here: New player does not equal scummy. I could see a new player legitimately asking this. I have a null read on Verr myself FWIW.

Asiina posted:

I'm phone posting still but Verr was around for my claim, responded to it, but didn't change votes, while saying I should be lynched if not nk'd. This combined with scummy play earlier in D1 is why I am voting for him.

Ok, now the not changing votes thing is a much better point against Verr. Re-reading, it looks bad and scummy.

Verr posted:

also I dont think changing my vote have mattered. could have added ecco to the pool of possible candidates but otherwise would have only shuffled my vote around.

I get the confusion as what to do when someone makes a legit claim..I totally do..but not at least unvoting while you stepped back to try and figure it out still seems really weird.

busb posted:

Wins90210 replaces capitalist pig!

Sup dude!

Annnnd we're back to Ecco chat. Joy of joys.

Oh OK good. It's actually minimal Ecco chat.

Agree with Ecco's read on LilMac.

I mostly agree on Verr, but still think failing to unvote is odd. I agree he's not a good candidate for today though.

Have no fear Ecco, I, at least, am town. :sparkles: Can't vouch for Rarity, but she does strike me as Town too.

I haven't looked at KB closely enough in awhile to agree or disagree on his scumatude.

Not crazy about another lurker lynch if we can do better. Bit us in the rear end yesterday.

----

Annnd Rarity's doing reads! Cool.

OK Rarity's observations on LilMac make me feel even more confident in my own.

---

Little Mac posted:

Bowmore is mostly based on meta. If I were to throw meta out the window, I'd read null on him.

What about his meta are you reading as town?

---

Yeah I need to think more about this KB and his ability claim stuff before I weigh it one way or another. My gut is saying even a partial claim without prompting is odd though.

--

Beetphyxious posted:

'm curious why no one is mentioning there was no night kill last night. maybe the scum team is dumb too?

I also thought this was lucky/weird but wasn't/am not sure how to discuss without speculating roles/mechanics

---

Uh yeah I also need more coffee before I try to figure out if a no lynch is good or not. My eyes are starting to glaze at this point in the read-through:

merk posted:

Every lynch period takes us closer to a loss. The only difference is if we lynch all scum at least one night before the king takes battle. In that situation, we would be saved from one extra nightkill.

I've never seen that happen in a soldiers game. If we can no lynch, why not?


Seriously can someone explain this in simpler, idiot-proof terms?

merk posted:

Let me put it this way: We would rather have a scum player in battle instead of the King. We would rather have a full battle filled with scum players instead of the King. We lose when our King goes into battle and gets killed. Anything we can do to delay that from happening, the better.

I'm not sure how else to phrase it. Your post shows that you didn't really think about this at all before mashing the Reply button. Or maybe you did and are scum.

Ooook...that makes a bit more sense. I still want to see what other people have to say on it til I'm sold tho.

merk posted:

Oh wait, if the scum do get a majority, they can lynch the King and win. I forgot about that. We do need to trim their numbers.

Oh. Yeah. That's no good, poo poo!

---

Rarity you read my mind with that vote.

Merk, I am running out of time and my eyes...they see the glaze...but I promise I will sit down and properly look at your Ecco case later.

But for now, for the points I raised and other people have raised, I feel comfortable with ##vote Little Mac

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Mac, I don't think a replacement shouldn't be completely unaccountable for their original's behaviour but isn't it a bit much to be voting for wins when he hasn't even posted yet?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



EccoRaven posted:

hey speaking of asiina not investigating me, why didn't you attack me? you were so confident that I was/am scum you were foregoing other reads but you sat on a half-vig night 1 and said "\_(ツ)_/"?

Because it doesn't do anything good. Wounding you wouldn't get me flip information to confirm my reads and inform others. All it does is make you an easy target if you get sent into battle and reduces our chances of winning. It seems like the worst of both worlds to me. I submitted someone from the other thread as my target and was kind of excited about it. When I got a response from busb saying it was invalid and to pick another I just told him to forget it.

That's why I think I should be sent into ranged combat now instead so I can at least use my other ability.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Rarity posted:

This claim makes me a little less sure about my read on KB. I don't see why scum would bother claiming it, especially if it was used on Asii.

KB, if you are legit then you should use it like any town would use a regular night-vig, try to hit scum.

Addressed this with Ecco, I'm not sure what it buys us. I think my combat ability would be far more useful now that I know what my out of combat one does.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Beetphyxious posted:

I dunno, my take away is the opposite. claiming some sort of role with uncertain use is a pretty good cover. at a glance his power seems like it may have some utility for town.. especially because it's not a full vig which can be bad for town in the wrong hands and his post has the 'helpful townie' sticker of approval on this sort of approach.

so yeah, i'm a little bit uncomfortable with the claim here, it wasn't really necessary imo

I thought it would be helpful for us to share in some more game mechanics knowledge. There is no value to me keeping it under my hat now that I know it doesn't do what I thought.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


King Burgundy posted:

Addressed this with Ecco, I'm not sure what it buys us. I think my combat ability would be far more useful now that I know what my out of combat one does.

I get where you're coming from. It sounds like more of a late-game ability for when the wounds have started to pile up.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Beetphyxious posted:

no i mean the whole 'oh i've got a power, im not sure if it's useful, i dunno' *pouts*, *looks uncertain*.


then others come along and reassure them.



that's what i mean. it's a tops play because vanilla town want to be helpful so they jump at the chance to help a power role if it comes up and then obviously they're not suss on that person.

This is the kind of twisting of words that has me chasing Ecco. ;) That wasn't my tone or intent.

I can't imagine what my scum motivations would be for hanging myself out here like this. I'm not a gambit kind of guy.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Ok, back to work. I'll do a reread later today and see if anything sticks out to me.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


King Burgundy posted:

Because it doesn't do anything good. Wounding you wouldn't get me flip information to confirm my reads and inform others. All it does is make you an easy target if you get sent into battle and reduces our chances of winning. It seems like the worst of both worlds to me. I submitted someone from the other thread as my target and was kind of excited about it. When I got a response from busb saying it was invalid and to pick another I just told him to forget it.

That's why I think I should be sent into ranged combat now instead so I can at least use my other ability.

this is a very reasonable and believable explanation.

rarity I think he's town!

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3771 days!


Ugh. Some of ecco's recent posts reek of budding up.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


what do you mean TMM my best friend and good chum??

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3771 days!


EccoRaven posted:

what do you mean TMM my best friend and good chum??

Why do you think I'm your best friend?

Should I ask you the McDreamy or McSteamy question?

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I'm making fun of you :shh:

I mostly just don't care anymore.

hey TMM how do you feel about my merk case?

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