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FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

Your authority is not recognized in Fort Kickass.


S2E05

Hellman's Mayonnaise? That's not sold on the West Coast . It's Best Foods. Same company, same label, different name.

I sure hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

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Delthalaz
Mar 5, 2003








Slippery Tilde

Well for one thing it's what 1960? 62? This is the first generation product of eugenics.

Sure, of course we could breed blonde haired blue eyed people through eugenics. I'm troubled more by the fact that they're beautiful people.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Delthalaz posted:

Sure, of course we could breed blonde haired blue eyed people through eugenics. I'm troubled more by the fact that they're beautiful people.

After 1 or 2 generations, I'm sure they would be. It's why children of actors and models are often insanely beautiful.

It's when you get into Hapsburg territory, several generations deep, that poo poo starts to get weird.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene


Xealot posted:

After 1 or 2 generations, I'm sure they would be. It's why children of actors and models are often insanely beautiful.

It's when you get into Hapsburg territory, several generations deep, that poo poo starts to get weird.

Especially if you are enriching the program for "beauty" by selecting not only blonde haired blue eyed people but also good looking blonde haired blue eyed people.

And then, as wards of the state, you also give them a great diet and exercise program -- which the Nazi government would have been all about for the Lebensborn had they won the war.

Edit: I have no idea if this is true but during the aftermath of the "Stranger Danger" campaign, I remember hearing about an experiment that asked kids to draw a "stranger". They universally drew monsters. A "stranger" wasn't someone who looked like daddy and wants to pick me up for him. A "stranger" is a hulking monstrous beast just wating to do terrible things and kidnap me.

Given that the whole "Nazi Next Door" just became politically relevant again (we even have people in this thread advocating for white enclaves and that the Reich looks like a great place to live), your desire to make the Nazis an entirely disgusting "other" seems counterproductive to one of the messages I hope this show is strongly advocating (the now controversial belief that "Nazis are bad").

Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jan 12, 2017

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


When did they stop being German? During the war they were synonymous. Now they were German that were Nazi. Creating an abstraction has been helpful for the far right in the otherisation/monsterfication of historical boogymen. Obviously with what we know now, we could stop those Nazis on account of them all having devil horns.

Tuxedo Jack
Sep 11, 2001

Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.


Finally finished season 2.

I think they are absolutely setting up John Smith for an attempted redemption arc. This may be a case of a breakout character stealing the show, however. Though there were hints of his wavering loyalties in season one, season two was just rife with them. It's got all the classic signs of a heel-face turn. And I honestly don't mind it, though he'll have to pay at some point.

I was surprised at Joe's seemingly sudden decision to stay in Berlin after learning about Lebensborn. I guess all it really takes to turn you full Nazi is a good old fashioned acid orgy.

As others have said, the show really shines when Tagomi, Kido, and Smith are the focus. I find this show far more captivating when the interactions are all between protagonists who are undeniably evil. That's something incredibly special that even Breaking Bad struggled to do right. Then again, whenever you bring one of the traditionally good characters like Frank, Ed or Juliana into it, my brain starts to check out. Though, I have to admit, I really did enjoy Juliana's story and the way Stephen Root tied it all together in 2x10.

But yeah, when the guy who gassed another main character's family just because he could is conspiring with Long Island's favorite Nazi to try and save the world from a devastating nuclear war - that's loving interesting poo poo. Give me more of that! My only complaint about season two is that they could have cut every time the camera lingered on the Frank and Ed eye-gently caress-fests and used that time for more super-closeups of Tagomi or Kido struggling with their inner demons. gently caress the editors!

:v:

Lastly, big kudos to the animator who popped up in this thread. The production design and world-building in the backgrounds is what really sells this show. (Someone already swooned over the music). Without classic Mercedes and weird German coupes, brutalist German skylines and supersonic Nazi jetports, this show wouldn't be half as good.

Season 2 was way better than season 1 (which I still enjoyed) - and if I had been able to binge this before year's end - it would have gone on my Top 10 list for 2016. Can't wait for season 3!

edit: Oh yeah, in the flashback at the beginning of 2x10 - Smith refers to meeting "Keller" at the Pentagon. Later, an SS Officer named Keller shows up from Berlin with a thick German accent (and tells Smith to raze Savannah). It's not likely they're the same character, right?

Tuxedo Jack fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Feb 2, 2017

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.


Smith is totally gonna be the main protagonist in S3. Surely, the writers have picked up that he's the fan favorite.

BigBallChunkyTime
Nov 25, 2011

Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.



Illegal Hen

I wish they'd get more in depth about how these films appear.

Like, ok, I get that they're from an alternate timeline. That's all fine and dandy. But how does Tagomi magically travel from one timeline to the other? And obviously the Man in the High Castle can as he has all those films. Either that or he knows a whole bunch of timeline-jumpers. Is it something anyone can do? Is there some sort of portal? That's the part that's weighing on me.

I just finished the season yesterday and thought it was better all the way through than Season 1-- where it kind of dragged in the middle. I totally see Smith switching sides. But he still sucks because it saw the absurd laws of the State to affect him personally in his home before he took a step back and said "Hey, this is wrong. I don't like this." Although deciding not to raze Savannah just to put down an uprising was a mark in his favor.

LinkesAuge posted:

Eugenics would of course work (in the long run), we have been doing it to our crops and animals for thousands of years. The problem with eugenics aren't the "results", it's the ethics behind it and how you'd get to those results.

I'm not a geneticist or anything, but couldn't having such a narrow gene pool be devastating to a population in the long run? I'm not talking inbreeding or anything, but couldn't there theoretically be some disease (genetic or viral/bacterial) that could wipe out a very good part of the population because they don't have certain things in their DNA from other races to help fight it off? Think of crop blight on farms and how it can destroy an entire field. Also how some races are more prone or less likely to get certain things because of their genetic makeup.

BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 2, 2017

The Gasmask
Nov 30, 2006

Breaking fingers like fractals

I totally forgot to bring this to the thread on Friday (kicking myself for forgetting), but we had an AMA on reddit about the VFX we did (I work for Theory, which took on a huge amount of work from Barnstorm, especially considering there were only like 4-5 of us who were full-time, the other dozen Theory guys and gals were part time/as needed).

It was interesting, pretty low-key on our end since Theory has experience with ama's but Barnstorm was new to it so they weren't sure what to expect. It was kinda funny to see their answers for some questions, they're good friends to Theory so I knew they were going to answer in certain ways - we were skyping with them throughout to answer questions that covered our contribution because we had a client meeting right after (in interest of time they handled choosing q's and posting answers).

I guess if anyone here has any Q's about the VFX that weren't covered there, I'll do my best to answer here. I'm so proud of what we did, especially with the challenge of Theory being a virtual studio (ask questions about this, it's cool!).

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5rvwo2/we_produced_the_visual_effects_for_man_in_the/?st=IYSQCEOQ&sh=490da5c9

Bulky Bartokomous
Nov 3, 2006

In Mypos, only the strong survive.



The Gasmask posted:

I totally forgot to bring this to the thread on Friday (kicking myself for forgetting), but we had an AMA on reddit about the VFX we did (I work for Theory, which took on a huge amount of work from Barnstorm, especially considering there were only like 4-5 of us who were full-time, the other dozen Theory guys and gals were part time/as needed).

It was interesting, pretty low-key on our end since Theory has experience with ama's but Barnstorm was new to it so they weren't sure what to expect. It was kinda funny to see their answers for some questions, they're good friends to Theory so I knew they were going to answer in certain ways - we were skyping with them throughout to answer questions that covered our contribution because we had a client meeting right after (in interest of time they handled choosing q's and posting answers).

I guess if anyone here has any Q's about the VFX that weren't covered there, I'll do my best to answer here. I'm so proud of what we did, especially with the challenge of Theory being a virtual studio (ask questions about this, it's cool!).

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5rvwo2/we_produced_the_visual_effects_for_man_in_the/?st=IYSQCEOQ&sh=490da5c9

This is amazing, thanks for sharing! (And doing what you do)

TheCenturion
May 3, 2013
HI I LIKE TO GIVE ADVICE ON RELATIONSHIPS

Finally got around to watching the second season, after rewatching the first to remember what's what.

This show was an amazing example of 'show, don't tell.' They don't beat you over the head with anything; they just let the horror speak for itself.

Some examples that really stuck in my head:
1) The doctor keeps home euthanasia kits in a desk drawer for easy disbursement.
2) The 'how racially pure are you?' flowchart in the immigration office at the Reich while Juliana awaited her exam.
3) The whole exam sequence, with spot-on pseudoscience to determine racial makeup.
4) Which then ended with 'fractured pelvis?' and the unspoken conclusion that, were it not for OBF Smith, she'd have been denied entry due to the possible childbirth issues this would have caused.
5) The only reference to Ed's homosexuality being subtle things like no girlfriend, his attachment to Frank, some ribbing by people like Childen, and Frank's like of 'They gas people like you, too, Ed.'
6) The Nazi Housewives all being hopped up on multiple drugs as a matter of course, and one of the first gestures of friendship they offer to Juliana being to get her hooked up with drugs.
7) Good old fashioned Nazi interrogators with the suspenders, undershirt, and beatin' stick.
8) The 'It's not snowing, it's Tuesday' scene.
9) Smith getting caught up on political machinations, and handing his wife a Luger and instructions to execute their children if he loses. He's one of the highest ranking officials in the American hierarchy, answers directly to Himmler, and yet his family is subject to arrest and torture at the nod of a head.

People saying that the Empire of Japan was portrayed as 'softer' than the Reich obviously weren't watching the show; from public executions and reprisals to the casual gassing of Frank's family to the outright statement 'Sure, those busses will be radioactive as gently caress, but it won't hurt any people, just some Americans,' let alone the lovely zoom out of the mass graves, they made it pretty clear that the Pacific States weren't a fun place to live if you were non-Japanese.

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

Intel&Sebastian posted:

I'm about two eps from the end of season 2 but can anyone tell me if the writing regarding Op. Smith's story arc regarding his son gets any less stupid? Or, if it's stupidity is ever at least acknowledged and folded into the show?

It's been an entire season+ since he's come face to face with his sons condition (in addition to whatever lingering feelings he should have about his brother who was euthanized), and the show seemingly hasn't addressed at all the horribly hypocritical attitude he's carrying around that Nazi eugenics are OK for literally everyone across the Reich, but not him and his family. Or that maybe Nazi eugenics undermines the Reich's dedication and lip service towards family life, and how that might make him feel. So far all they do is portray his actions protecting his son as a heroic act for his family and the closest he ever comes to feeling bad about it is being clandestine about hiding it. Like....he's literally enforcing this policy on everyone else in America and murdering people to hide it while he plans an elaborate escape hatch for his son and he seemingly hasn't given a single thought to the idea that, hey! maybe OTHER PEOPLE might also love their loving families and maybe they deserve some chance to save their own children, not just John Smith the gently caress you got mine of Nazi America. In just about every other aspect of his life he's utterly dedicated to the Reich and they haven't tied the two together like...at all.

And even that portrayal of the character is fine but JESUS CHRIST please acknowledge that he's a piece of poo poo for this, confront him with it and have him positively confirm that he's a loving evil piece of poo poo who thinks eugenics is AOK for everyone else but not him, because gently caress you that's why.


I know there's some room for that arc to change or slap him with the truth of the matter but I just don't see how or any indication that the writers want to. Between this and the palpable glee the set designers have for making Nazi Leave-it-to-Beaver and SuperBerlin look like really fun places to live for white people I'm getting kind of :chloe: about this show. The subject matter they're dealing with (and current events) demand at least a little bit of responsibility on their part to balance out this oogling of Nazi life with some subversion and depiction of why maybe it's not ok to lust for the good ol' days of the 1950's with the added grossness of loving Nazi's and I just don't think they're doing a very good job of it. The depiction of the Reich in S2 is starting to feel like American Nazi Party porn to me basically, and poo poo like what's going on in my spoilered bit there, and things like the tone-deafness of trying to advertise the show with NYC subway cars covered in Swastika's and Heiling Statues of Liberty does not help me see the better side of whatever they're trying to do and say with this story. There's way too much time spent on what basically looks like what Stormfront would be filming if they had millions of dollars and not enough time writing a compelling Resistance/Spy story that undermines it.

Again, my opinion.

I have very similar feelings after watching S2, but I see it manifested more in Joe's character. Specifically, I find the "Nazi with a heart of gold" narrative very disturbing. From what is shown to us we're led to believe that Joe is a good person (Why else would Juliana trust him?!) and his participation in Nazism is ostensibly a product of a combination of coercion, his privilege and his naivete. Based on the way his character is portrayed, you're supposed to like him and it's seductively easy to do so (i.e. His whole redemption narrative at the end of S1). Joe and his Nazi girlfriend symbolize the potential for "goodness" and "liberal progress" within a Nazi regime, which makes me want to puke. Sure he's a Nazi - but he's a also handsome, clean-cut, soft spoken white guy from Brooklyn who feels pangs of regret when his Nazi buddies blow up a boat of black guys. He can't be that bad! :rolleyes: Or maybe I'm wrong and this is the exact point the writers are trying to make? I doubt it, though.

mA fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Feb 16, 2017

Bulky Bartokomous
Nov 3, 2006

In Mypos, only the strong survive.



Maybe this show just isn't your cup of tea? It's supposed to make you a little uncomfortable but if you are angry at set designers for doing their job I think you might be better off watching something else.

Bulky Bartokomous fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Feb 16, 2017

The Gasmask
Nov 30, 2006

Breaking fingers like fractals

Remember that Season 2 was pretty much fully written by like April or May of 2016, and some of the CGI shots (especially Germania) took close to 6 months to complete. The show was finished before the election even happened (well, close enough, final editing/grading may have happened up through the end of Nov.), and even if there had been a desire to tweak things based on current events, it wouldn't have been possible.

It kinda bums me out that so many people (both viewers and reviewers) expected the show to comment on the rise of Trump and the current state of America... I thought it did an excellent job in presenting the ease at which society can become normalized to horrible things. From showing the negative consequences of rebellion (it may be the right thing to do, but that doesn't mean you won't lose everything in the process) to allowing for typically "evil" characters to be human and do genuinely good things.

I'm sure things would've been presented differently if, back in March of 2016, we knew Trump was going to win and America would face the dilemmas it's currently struggling with.

If anything, it was supposed to be a fictional look into an alternate timeline that would make us shiver and say "drat, I'm sure glad we're not dealing with a corrupted state and a fractured populace, we should be mindful so it doesn't happen".
Instead, the real world went off the rails, and media like MITHC that wants us to examine our beliefs (such as why we might get caught in the moment and cheer for Smith while knowing he's done horrible things) seems to come off really poorly for some people.

I know I won't change anyone's opinion - but even though I don't agree, I would be remiss if I didn't make an effort to understand it. Who knows, maybe Season 3 will shift towards the show some were expecting - but regardless, it will hit the same dilemma where production can't keep up with reality.

Bulky Bartokomous
Nov 3, 2006

In Mypos, only the strong survive.



I don't feel it is the responsibility of the show to do anything other than tell the story they are trying to tell.

Bulgogi Hoagie
Jun 1, 2012

We

i think they managed to show the "nazi regime opportunist" archetype with john smith really well, but joe is just... a badly written character? he's like a piece of playdoh, there's literally nothing there, no driving motivation apart from daddy issues that rapidly take a back seat when joe starts to like his daddy so much he almost doesn't mind the japanese genocide thing that was about to transpire. it's just such a huge break from what is implied to be a decent dude from brooklyn or whatever. maybe it was a parable that one needs to be already invested in the world in order preserve it, like john smith is with his family and position, rather than be an unattached idealist like joe who ultimately couldn't really care whether the japs get nuked or not enough to stop his dad, which is why it had to be smith that stopped the nuclear war, that's the only way this makes sense to me

i can see pretty clearly where they can take smiths development ark now but joe is still a blank slate lol. i suppose its going to be another season of him getting bossed around by smith

Bulgogi Hoagie fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 16, 2017

Bulgogi Hoagie
Jun 1, 2012

We

really want to see more focus on the japanese power structures next season also

iceyman
Jul 11, 2001



I thought Joe represents a (relatively) more liberal upper class that is lulled into complacency via a life of privilege. He seemingly understands the stakes, and doesn't personally lust for war and human suffering. But he doesn't go to any extreme measures to protest what is happening. Even in the last second on the precipice of a huge preemptive strike, where he is best positioned to reason with his father (a futile effort for sure), his efforts feel weak and half-hearted. I think Joe's character serves a useful narrative purpose, but I don't really look at him as a hero type I should be rooting for and actually rather dislike him.

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

Bulgogi Hoagie posted:

i think they managed to show the "nazi regime opportunist" archetype with john smith really well, but joe is just... a badly written character? he's like a piece of playdoh, there's literally nothing there, no driving motivation apart from daddy issues that rapidly take a back seat when joe starts to like his daddy so much he almost doesn't mind the japanese genocide thing that was about to transpire. it's just such a huge break from what is implied to be a decent dude from brooklyn or whatever. maybe it was a parable that one needs to be already invested in the world in order preserve it, like john smith is with his family and position, rather than be an unattached idealist like joe who ultimately couldn't really care whether the japs get nuked or not enough to stop his dad, which is why it had to be smith that stopped the nuclear war, that's the only way this makes sense to me

i can see pretty clearly where they can take smiths development ark now but joe is still a blank slate lol. i suppose its going to be another season of him getting bossed around by smith

I agree. In contrast, as sloppily as Frank's character was written this year, at least his character has logical motivations. In season 1, he'd rather hide and avoid getting involved because he lived through the holocaust as a Jewish person and was very much situated in a survivor mentality. In season 2, you can logically understand why he went off the deep end: 1) Kido gassing his family members in S1, 2) Believing that Juliana left him for a Nazi, 3) Ed almost being executed by Kido for being associated with Frank.

Cocks Cable posted:

I thought Joe represents a (relatively) more liberal upper class that is lulled into complacency via a life of privilege. He seemingly understands the stakes, and doesn't personally lust for war and human suffering. But he doesn't go to any extreme measures to protest what is happening. Even in the last second on the precipice of a huge preemptive strike, where he is best positioned to reason with his father (a futile effort for sure), his efforts feel weak and half-hearted. I think Joe's character serves a useful narrative purpose, but I don't really look at him as a hero type I should be rooting for and actually rather dislike him.

I don't necessarily disagree, but it does seem to me that the writers are setting him up to be a hero figure, which is nauseating.

mA fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Feb 16, 2017

Bulky Bartokomous
Nov 3, 2006

In Mypos, only the strong survive.



mA posted:

I don't necessarily disagree, but it does seem to me that the writers are setting him up to be a hero figure, which is nauseating.

Why is it nauseating? Joe didn't ask to be born to his world, he doesn't remember the old one.

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

Bulky Bartokomous posted:

Why is it nauseating? Joe didn't ask to be born to his world, he doesn't remember the old one.

Gaius Baltar from BSG got a lot of hate from casual watchers because he was a monster, while many viewers (like myself) enjoyed watching a sympathetic view of that character's perspective. A similar but more extreme situation happens with Walter White in Breaking Bad. At face value, all three characters are "not good" because of course we, as removed observers, would make the unambiguously morally correct choices if placed in these scenarios. The type of people who dislike these characters have a hard time removing themselves from fictional motives.

At that point, I'm honestly not sure why someone with that attitude would watch this particular show because just about everyone has motives we will not 100% agree with because they (the characters) live in a world totally separate from ours. I would assume they keep hoping for a resistance that will have the moral high ground and topple the fascist groups in power. But, that isn't what this show (or the original source) are about. Sorry guys, this series is basically an extended Twilight Zone and will surely end on a bittersweet note.

Mike the TV fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Feb 17, 2017

HannibalBarca
Sep 11, 2016

History shows, again and again, how nature points out the folly of man.

TheCenturion posted:

Frank's like of 'They gas people like you, too, Ed.'

I got the impression that that was because Ed's lungs were hosed up from the war.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene


HannibalBarca posted:

I got the impression that that was because Ed's lungs were hosed up from the war.

The Nazis are pretty cool with wounded war heroes. I mean, at least propaganda-wise. That was true in the real world and true here. Nazi McNaziface's brother suffered and should have been euthanized (like his son will be) but his comrade from the war is still able to live our his life despite his war wounds. They made sure to include those scenes so you know the difference.

Ed's thing is that, yeah, he got hurt by the war. But his war wounds aren't what make him unacceptable to the current world.

HannibalBarca
Sep 11, 2016

History shows, again and again, how nature points out the folly of man.

the difference being that he fought on the losing side.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene


Dignity in defeat was a thing in Vichy.

Bulky Bartokomous
Nov 3, 2006

In Mypos, only the strong survive.



I thought when what's her name was in Naziland she asked about what would happen to Ed and they explicitly told her he "wouldn't have to suffer"

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



I also assumed Ed's deal was lung damage that make him unfit somehow, but his interest in Frank could for sure be more than incidentally homoerotic.

Isn't the logic behind Ed's lungs a whole "useless eater" thing? His lung damage makes him less effective at his job or a social burden or something? But he seems totally fine at his job, and it's not like he'd pass on "severe mustard gas damage" genetically. I guess my defect is trying to find logic in the policies of racist maniacs.

But for real: I assume the Nazis in this universe killed off amputees or paraplegics who were injured during the war? It's not like a one-legged vet couldn't work most jobs or gently caress his wife, but I guess there are appearances to keep up.

Stellar Curiosity
Jan 15, 2009



@The Gasmask

During production, does the costume department take photos of the actors in costume for reference? I've seen that other shows do that, and the reason I'm asking is because I am slightly obsessing over some of the coats that Juliana Crain and Nicole Becker use in season 2... and I have no idea what the style/type they are, besides alternative reality 50's/60's. (I need something like those in my life)

Speaking of costumes, I haven't really noticed any members of the resistance using any form of unifying symbols/colours - besides the card Joe gets in the beginning, (or perhaps I am blind) was this a deliberate choice?

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy


The show must atone for its glorification of nazis by having the next 6 seasons be nothing but anti nazi violence.

Set to nazi punks gently caress off

Bulgogi Hoagie
Jun 1, 2012

We

Phi230 posted:

The show must atone for its glorification of nazis by having the next 6 seasons be nothing but anti nazi violence.

Set to nazi punks gently caress off

yeah but inglorious basterds the tv series is probably already in the works somewhere else

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

Bulky Bartokomous posted:

Why is it nauseating? Joe didn't ask to be born to his world, he doesn't remember the old one.

Because the idea that a white liberal Nazi with the heart of gold can undermine and reform the Nazi regime from the inside out is a preposterous premise, which isn't "complex" or "nuanced" at all. Rather it's quite cliched and banal.

PS I watch this show because there are some good characters and some good writing (Smith), and obviously some laughable ones (Joe).

mA fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 11, 2017

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








Yeah all those white liberal Nazis with a heart of gold are so played out, like

The Gasmask
Nov 30, 2006

Breaking fingers like fractals

Stellar Curiosity posted:

@The Gasmask

During production, does the costume department take photos of the actors in costume for reference? I've seen that other shows do that, and the reason I'm asking is because I am slightly obsessing over some of the coats that Juliana Crain and Nicole Becker use in season 2... and I have no idea what the style/type they are, besides alternative reality 50's/60's. (I need something like those in my life)

Speaking of costumes, I haven't really noticed any members of the resistance using any form of unifying symbols/colours - besides the card Joe gets in the beginning, (or perhaps I am blind) was this a deliberate choice?

Regarding the first question, yes, tons of photos are taken of the actors in-costume. I didn't do any of the digital doubles of the main characters so I didn't work with those shots, but for the Volkshalle rally sequences I had a bunch of photos of the civilian and soldier extras in costume, which I used as reference when I was modeling/outfitting the digital doubles that were used to fill up the hall.
I'm sure there's some info out there about Juliana and Nicole's coats, but I'll also ask around and see if I can get some specifics. Can't promise anything since I didn't personally have much interaction with the non-VFX side of things, but you're not the first person to ask about outfits so that might make it easier to figure out.

Regarding Q-2: I can only speak for myself, the writers and designers may have other views on it, but I took the lack of cohesiveness in resistance outfits to symbolize the nature of the resistance. These are regular people who lost it all, then made the choice to throw away any chance of stability for a nebulous (and probably unreachable) goal.
They're all from disparate walks of life, with no real structure to the organization, and that's reflected in what they wear.

While there were definitely situations where minor details were missed, one thing that stood out to me was the amount of effort spent on practically every angle, forming a pretty cohesive whole. There was an incredible amount of thought put into the "why", and even though much of it is subtle or not referenced, we tried to avoid doing things "just because". Of course certain aspects needed to be tweaked for visual effect (the Volkshalle interior was originally a near-perfect clone of the real life plans, but that destroyed any sense of scale so we had to take some liberties), but from the jewelry to the sets, each piece fit into the story.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



McSpanky posted:

Yeah all those white liberal Nazis with a heart of gold are so played out, like

No, I think I get their point. The idea that "real, productive" change comes from reform and compromise rather than outrage or revolution. Basically, the Metropolis ending.

I don't know that I'd call it banal or cliched, but definitely disingenuous in this context. "Electing better leaders" is not really a solution when we're talking about a literally genocidal nightmare government. The most liberal position is still one that sanctions an essentially apocalyptic status quo.

Stabitha
Mar 11, 2005

You lookin' at me? Don't.

Has anyone been listening to Resistance Radio? It's a broadcast that the Man in the High Castle has put out to advertise for the third season. I think it's pretty neat.

https://resistanceradio.com/

It's also funny because Trump supporters think it's a real station that is anti-Trump. Lol.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/ct-fake-radio-station-amazon-man-in-the-high-castle-20170313-story.html

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004


:dukedog:


Offensive Clock

Just started watching Season 1 and it bothers me how much worthless effort goes into transporting the microfilm with nuclear secrets. Why didn't the Nazi Spy and the japanese dude exchange the film at the very first moment they met? Bet that japanese dude would have no problem getting it to the science director, even anonymously.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


mA posted:

Because the idea that a white liberal Nazi with the heart of gold can undermine and reform the Nazi regime from the inside out is a preposterous premise, which isn't "complex" or "nuanced" at all. Rather it's quite cliched and banal.

I suspect it's going in the opposite direction though? He didn't reform anything, he just got high, spouted platitudes, and got thrown in prison.

I read Joe's arc as a critique of armchair liberalism and soft left positions in times of dire crisis. He can afford to softly criticise government policy because he's one of the powerful designer generation who are literally revered by his housekeepers and staff. He's not actually changing anything, despite what he or his girlfriend tell each other. The moment he winds up in a position of power, his girlfriend is turned the gently caress on -- they don't want to gently caress with the Nazi's, they're in love with them.

Also, I think a key point of Joe's characterisation is that he's a two-timing poo poo with weak moral values. He has flashes of conscience, like when he returned to his defacto parter at the start of the second season, and was talking about getting an honest job and being more present in his kid's life. By the end of the season, he's completely forgotten about all of that. He's a wishy-washy complicit poo poo, utterly uninterested in change or the struggle that comes with taking a stand beyond defence of the status quo.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013



Stabitha posted:

Has anyone been listening to Resistance Radio? It's a broadcast that the Man in the High Castle has put out to advertise for the third season. I think it's pretty neat.

https://resistanceradio.com/
If you manually tune the radio, there's a morse code message being transmitted at 1700, and a German numbers station at 1050. Someone's got to've translated both those things already, right?

CAPT. Rainbowbeard
Apr 5, 2012

My incredible goodposting transcends time and space but still it cannot transform the xbone into a good console.


Lipstick Apathy

Ofaloaf posted:

If you manually tune the radio, there's a morse code message being transmitted at 1700, and a German numbers station at 1050. Someone's got to've translated both those things already, right?

I'd love to hear more about this.

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Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009



http://www.vox.com/culture/2016/12/19/13995878/the-man-in-the-high-castle-review-season-2-amazon-worst

Lol what an excoriation. A lot of the acting was really bad in this season. Prime offenders were Japanese resistance woman and Dixon the cable guy.

Speaking of the resistance, I resent that big moneybags Amazon couldn't depict a single scene of the uprising after Hitler's death.

Himmler's speech was amazing though. My favorite scene in the whole season. Probably the only point in the season where I thought about the balance between order and freedom: here's a guy reassuring his people in the largest man-made structure ever built that they would not die in a fruitless war because his underlings did their homework...and at the same time he is literally Himmler.

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