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Pews
Mar 7, 2006

one thousand years of anime


Grimey Drawer

twistedmentat posted:

Also, the Theme song, its really loving terrible.

Edelweiss? It's quite chilling and symbolic. Not sure what you were expecting, but I find it very appropriate for this setting.

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Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words


It's pretty unfortunate to use it as some kind of Nazi anthem given its actual origin.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



twistedmentat posted:

Also, the Theme song, its really loving terrible.

Objectively wrong opinion alert.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Pews posted:

Edelweiss? It's quite chilling and symbolic. Not sure what you were expecting, but I find it very appropriate for this setting.

I really hate breathy singing like that. I don't expect some heavy martial theme or something that sounds like its from Saving Private Ryan, but I just find it tiring and not evocative at all.


Anne Whateley posted:

It's pretty unfortunate to use it as some kind of Nazi anthem given its actual origin.

Duetchland Uber Alles is a liberial democratic song that has its origins in the revolutions of 1848.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words


Okay? This song is "Edelweiss" and it was written post-Nazis as part of a larger work that hated on them. It was never something that they appropriated or repurposed.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


Pews posted:

Edelweiss? It's quite chilling and symbolic. Not sure what you were expecting, but I find it very appropriate for this setting.

Yeah, the combination of the music/imagery in the intro is IMO one of the best openings of any series.

Finished now, Joe's back-and-forth is really, really annoying. There's morally ambiguous, and then there's... whatever the writers are going for there. Also echoing how weird it was to be rooting for Team Hitler in the last episode. :psyduck:

All in all I quite like the show... even if it was terrible I would still be giving it props for how ambitious an alt-history period drama with so many locations is, and it's actually pretty good on its own merits. I feel silly not drawing the Man in the High Castle revelation with the establishing shot of Hitler's castle in the Austrian Alps, until I saw the wall of film reels. It's been years since I read the book, but the trade minister's final scene definitely rang a bell for me. One snippit of dialogue I was wondering about was when Trudy was talking about the films and said that they were a way out. I can't help but wonder if there might actually be a literal way to travel between the universes, although that last scene with the trade minister seems more like a vision.

I'm really interested to see where they go with next season, assuming it gets greenlit. I know it's on Amazon and therefore probably not very available in either country, but I'd be really curious how it's received in Germany and/or Japan.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Finished 1x02 killing that guys family, yea good job there, creating yet another problem. It seems odd the Japanese would take on Nazi racial policies, I guess either pressure from the Greater Reich or just exposure to it for 15 years has made Juden Todt popular. Plus it would be an easy way to stay on Germany's good side.

It's kind of an odd thing that styles have remained pretty much the same. Its the 60s, but everything still look's like the 40s, save a few things like the telephone booths and some cars. I wonder if that's a subtle clue about the stagnation of Fascist so cities culture. How they would not grow a change because everything is state controlled. And without a cultural hub, there would be no one to influence other countries.

twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Nov 22, 2015

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



twistedmentat posted:

Finished 1x02 killing that guys family, yea good job there, creating yet another problem. It seems odd the Japanese would take on Nazi racial policies, I guess either pressure from the Greater Reich or just exposure to it for 15 years has made Juden Todt popular. Plus it would be an easy way to stay on Germany's good side.

It's kind of an odd thing that styles have remained pretty much the same. Its the 60s, but everything still look's like the 40s, save a few things like the telephone booths and some cars. I wonder if that's a subtle clue about the stagnation of Fascist so cities culture. How they would not grow a change because everything is state controlled. And without a cultural hub, there would be no one to influence other countries.

Please watch your spoiler tags. It's easy to mess up the tag but it's also easy to read your post afterwards.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

X-O posted:

Please watch your spoiler tags. It's easy to mess up the tag but it's also easy to read your post afterwards.

poo poo sorry. At least its better than the post in the JJ thread where I had quote tags instead of spoiler tags.

Unless you meant about the clothes, I didn't think that counted as a spoiler. But I spoiled it in case.

1x03 Need someone scary? Call Burn Gorman. Though this is the scariest I've seen him. More scary than Karl loving Tanner

twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 22, 2015

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


twistedmentat posted:

Finished 1x02 killing that guys family, yea good job there, creating yet another problem. It seems odd the Japanese would take on Nazi racial policies, I guess either pressure from the Greater Reich or just exposure to it for 15 years has made Juden Todt popular. Plus it would be an easy way to stay on Germany's good side.

It's kind of an odd thing that styles have remained pretty much the same. Its the 60s, but everything still look's like the 40s, save a few things like the telephone booths and some cars. I wonder if that's a subtle clue about the stagnation of Fascist so cities culture. How they would not grow a change because everything is state controlled. And without a cultural hub, there would be no one to influence other countries.

They weren't particularly anti-Semetic... in fact, in Japan today they play up some of the Japanese who helped Jews escape the Nazis. I taught for a few years in Japan and one of the speech contests recitations for middle schoolers in my prefecture was about a Japanese diplomat who forged hundreds (thousands? IDK because I taught high school so didn't have to listen to it a million times) of visas for Jews so they could flee I want to say Lithuania. I'm sure the Empire paid lip service to the idea though, for his part Hitler publicly lauded the Japanese as the "Aryans of the East", I'm sure privately he hated them as much as he did the rest of the world's "inferior races".

OTOH, they were racist as hell against the Chinese and Koreans (attempted a cultural genocide of the entire country) and it's not a big leap to make towards rounding up Jews to keep up good relations with the Nazis.

Also worth noting that the Japanese walked from the League of Nations conference post WW1 after the Allies refused to include a racial equality clause they had insisted on. (The Japanese had fought on the side of the Allies during the war and had been picking off German possessions in the Pacific). It basically let them know what the score was for non-whites in the world.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.


So what's the consensus?

Glanced at a review that said it was slow.

Tuxedo Jack
Sep 11, 2001

Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.


-Blackadder- posted:

So what's the consensus?

Glanced at a review that said it was slow.

Incredible production design and acting, very slow and sometimes frustrating story. Still "very good" despite its flaws, IMHO.

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

twistedmentat posted:

Though it is kind of strange to see in the show black people because in the book basically they were extinct in the US. It looks like the neutral zone is less Nazi dominated than in the book


Speaking of black people, in the book they were mostly killed off on the east coast, but the Japanese just treated them as third class citizens. Germany used biological or chemical warfare to depopulate all of Africa as well.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.


So how much of the book does the first season cover?

Chuf
Jun 28, 2011

I had that weird dream again.


Just finished binging all of this. Overall I really liked it, cool ideas with great production value and acting. 1x10 I was hooked from the first episode when it was revealed Joe was a Nazi spy but his character really grated over time and by the end I was really hoping Lem would kill him and we could be done with his annoying doubting. Also going to echo what's been said about rooting for team Hitler - a very odd situation but Smith was a very empathetic character for me and in this show team Hitler means not another world war. I haven't read the book but I really enjoyed the teasing out of the contents of the films with their sci-fi implications and so really like the final scene with Tagomi.

Also did anyone else think that (1x10 - speculation) Tagomi's assisstant is from our reality (or the "correct" timeline) as he seems to have some pretty horrific burns, is from Nagasaki and vehemently encourages Tagomi to continue with his mediatation which leads to his discovery of the alternate universe.

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

-Blackadder- posted:

So how much of the book does the first season cover?

In the book, the story ends about a dozen pages after Tagomi returns from his trip. There are big differences with Juliana's and Joe's stories, but the last few pages are about meeting and discussing things with the man in the high castle (who is a recluse in the neutral zone), and discovering that their reality might not be the real one.

Robutt posted:

Just finished binging all of this. Overall I really liked it, cool ideas with great production value and acting. 1x10 I was hooked from the first episode when it was revealed Joe was a Nazi spy but his character really grated over time and by the end I was really hoping Lem would kill him and we could be done with his annoying doubting. Also going to echo what's been said about rooting for team Hitler - a very odd situation but Smith was a very empathetic character for me and in this show team Hitler means not another world war. I haven't read the book but I really enjoyed the teasing out of the contents of the films with their sci-fi implications and so really like the final scene with Tagomi.

Also did anyone else think that (1x10 - speculation) Tagomi's assisstant is from our reality (or the "correct" timeline) as he seems to have some pretty horrific burns, is from Nagasaki and vehemently encourages Tagomi to continue with his mediatation which leads to his discovery of the alternate universe.

Continuing with your speculation, (1x10) I completely agree, and also think that Juliana's sister Trudy has a bigger role than we thought. Her mother 'feels' her back alive and Juliana actually sees her in the market. Now that we know that people can jump between worlds, it's a no brainer that it literally was Trudy visiting from a parallel world. After all, someone would have to be ferrying the films across.

Edit: further extrapolation (1x10) It's Frank's jewelry that allows Tagomi to make the trip. Frank says he used to make jewelry, but gave up when no one bought it. However, we could reasonably guess that he gave some as gifts to family, including Trudy. Let's say Trudy discovered the power of this jewelry and started bringing films back, or met herself that does so. One of them gets killed, one of them continues to ferry films. The 'different' film in the last episode might have even been an intentional drop, as Trudy would recognize Frank in the film.

Mike the TV fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Nov 22, 2015

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013


-Blackadder- posted:

So what's the consensus?

Glanced at a review that said it was slow.

Production values are terrific, but the show is very slow - I get the sense that they really didn't know how to handle the main story of the book, since that would be a short miniseries, so they're stretching everything out while the writers figure out where to go.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house I have felt covid is the best thing that ever happened to me. But instead of enjoying this, I now spend up to 16 hours a day posting weird fake vaccine news and medical advice on some weird idea I can extend covid and keep pretending I'm a shut in on propose.

I think that the (1x10) reality leaps have as much to do with Tagomi’s philosophy and meditation as with the jewellery.

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



(1x10)I think Frank's jewellery having some sort of mystical significance is alluded towards in the earlier scene where the gullible japanese couple buy his forgeries

Rad Russian
Aug 15, 2007

Soviet Power Supreme!


Mike the TV posted:

Edit: further extrapolation (1x10) It's Frank's jewelry that allows Tagomi to make the trip. Frank says he used to make jewelry, but gave up when no one bought it. However, we could reasonably guess that he gave some as gifts to family, including Trudy. Let's say Trudy discovered the power of this jewelry and started bringing films back, or met herself that does so. One of them gets killed, one of them continues to ferry films. The 'different' film in the last episode might have even been an intentional drop, as Trudy would recognize Frank in the film.

(1x10) But if Trudy travels back from the "good" reality to bring the films to the "bad" reality in the show, to demonstrate the "good" other universe, how does she get a bad universe film? That one can't be from the same reality where allies won the war. Or are we saying there are now multiple Trudys from multiple good and bad alternate universes?

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

Rad Russian posted:

(1x10) But if Trudy travels back from the "good" reality to bring the films to the "bad" reality in the show, to demonstrate the "good" other universe, how does she get a bad universe film? That one can't be from the same reality where allies won the war. Or are we saying there are now multiple Trudys from multiple good and bad alternate universes?

(1x10) Honestly, I'm not sure there is a 'good' universe. All of the multiverses seem mired in war, most of them presumably with nuclear threats. In the last scene with Tagomi, the newspaper and ticker both highlight that it's the start of the Cuban missile crisis.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.


I'm up to episode 7 now. You guys were right it is slow, but the interesting thing about it is that it's not boringly slow. Especially in the last few episodes it seems to do a really good job of ramping up the tension.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


I'm at the same point, it's slow for sure but it never really gets bogged down.
Obergruppenfuhrer Smith is an ice cold motherfucker. I could watch an hour of the Trade Minister getting his old timey Japanese on.

Still have zero idea what is going on, but it's a joy to watch.

Delthalaz
Mar 5, 2003








Slippery Tilde

Love the show - I think the only time I lost patience with it was around episode 5. I think the episode 6 to 10 stretch is best.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.


Just finished. Never read the book so I didn't realize this had timeline hopping elements rather than just being straight up alt-history.

Overall, it was pretty, good acting and sets, in some ways I actually liked it better than Jessica Jones, though it certainly moved slower.

It'll be interesting to see where they go from here.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009



This show is completely my thing and it's nice to see SA not hate it. It doesn't feel slow to me, to be honest. If you sped it up anymore, you'd have a lot of people lost on the smaller plot points, and it's really obvious that they're laying groundwork with OGF Smith and with Tagomi-san. Our mains might be Juliana, Joe and (sorta) Frank, but it's the secondaries that drive this show around the mains. It's a fun way to see something written.

I will say I don't care about Frank at all because I feel like all he does is get sad, get sadder, yell at something, wash rinse repeat. The religious thing was worth some feelings, but otherwise I'd be okay if he ends up gone. It isn't the actor's fault: the actor's great. It isn't the writing, either. He just doesn't interest me.

tomapot
Apr 7, 2005
Suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.


Oven Wrangler

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

...but it's the secondaries that drive this show around the mains. It's a fun way to see something written.

After I saw the pilot I ran off to read the book. I'm glad they are mixing it up a bit and enjoying both versions. The secondaries do have some great stories for example I'm glad they kept in the antiques dealer Robert Childan. He struggles with desperately wants to fit in and seeing his excitement from being invited over as a guest turning to being crestfallen when discovering they just wanted to pick his brain was really well done.

Wondering how they far they are going to take the cross-over between the alt-realities or if they are going to leave it at the films and some glimpses.

Fateo McMurray
Mar 22, 2003



(1x10)Am I supposed to be rooting for Obergruppenführer Smith? Or feel bad for him and his kid? gently caress him. And his kid. I knew the kid was a goner when they went to see the doctor, but making the nazi dad kill the nazi son himself before the state does it for you? :perfect:

Delthalaz
Mar 5, 2003








Slippery Tilde

Fateo McMurray posted:

(1x10)Am I supposed to be rooting for Obergruppenführer Smith? Or feel bad for him and his kid? gently caress him. And his kid. I knew the kid was a goner when they went to see the doctor, but making the nazi dad kill the nazi son himself before the state does it for you? :perfect:

I think the show making you root for loyal American nazi and team Hitler (vs. everyone dying horribly) is supposed to make you feel weird and confused inside

I personally loved Heydrich. I mean seriously, who was more evil than Heydrich? Compared to him and Himmler, Hitler was a moderate nazi. I read the book years ago, and my favorite part was when the Japanese minister fell into our universe - I really wish that had happened before the last 3 minutes of the season.

Ekkerates
Sep 26, 2013


I'm a little dissapointed how little Childan is in the series compared to the book. He was always my favourite most annoying weeabo in the world.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

So this happened

http://mashable.com/2015/11/23/amazon-nazi-bus-ads/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link#O4Qfc8aj_qqR

:ughh:

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010




That's hilarious

I didn't run into that but I saw a poster for it in the subway, and I noted that they drew the line at Swastikas on posters for public display, instead using the eagle+cross symbol.

Tuxedo Jack
Sep 11, 2001

Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.


It has to be difficult to market a show with this kind of subject matter in the first place.

Do these people balk at Volkswagen commercials or Bayer Aspirin ads?

Aside from the nazi-saluting Statue of Fascism (which is tasteless, but only seems to be on their own website) - those subway ads seem fine to me. People need to chill the gently caress out. Those ads are doing exactly what they're intended to do, it would seem. People are either going to watch it or they aren't.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe



You should have seen what they had on the site when they first launched the show at like 3 AM.

It was the sieg-heil statue of liberty on a blood red background, the next flash part took forever to load so you were stuck there going :psyduck: until a bunch of block text started flashing like 'What if the nazis won the war?' 'What if there was no summer of love?' ' What if there was no *historical moment*' until it finally ended with 'What if there was no Amazon?'

And that was it. No details on it being a tv show or the season being available or anything beyond the name.

Somebody at Amazon must have realized how bad that looked because it was swapped out within hours.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Could have gone with shots of the cast, with some of that stuff in the background. Or maybe a paper with "Axis win!" on it in the gutter or something else.

TEAH SYAG
Oct 2, 2009

by Lowtax


Tuxedo Jack posted:

It has to be difficult to market a show with this kind of subject matter in the first place.

Do these people balk at Volkswagen commercials or Bayer Aspirin ads?

Aside from the nazi-saluting Statue of Fascism (which is tasteless, but only seems to be on their own website) - those subway ads seem fine to me. People need to chill the gently caress out. Those ads are doing exactly what they're intended to do, it would seem. People are either going to watch it or they aren't.

I agree, people need to get over their hypersensitive bullshit. This is fiction, nothing more.

Holyshoot
May 5, 2010


With all this talk of the guy with the burn marks possibly from our time line and the finale being what it was. This show is going to turn into a Lost type series isn't it? :smith:

Rad Russian
Aug 15, 2007

Soviet Power Supreme!


Well I mean they will have to do something weird to expand on the book because otherwise it would end at season 1. The question now is whether they actually have a long term story arc plan for future seasons or they will just wing it as they go.

cenotaph
Mar 2, 2013





Tuxedo Jack posted:

It has to be difficult to market a show with this kind of subject matter in the first place.

Do these people balk at Volkswagen commercials or Bayer Aspirin ads?

Aside from the nazi-saluting Statue of Fascism (which is tasteless, but only seems to be on their own website) - those subway ads seem fine to me. People need to chill the gently caress out. Those ads are doing exactly what they're intended to do, it would seem. People are either going to watch it or they aren't.
Or Fanta ads.


Holyshoot posted:

With all this talk of the guy with the burn marks possibly from our time line and the finale being what it was. This show is going to turn into a Lost type series isn't it? :smith:

If you're watching something based on a Philip K. Dick novel and not expecting a mystery involving the protagonists' reality being false then I don't know what to tell you. However, his novels are relatively short and generally have clear explanations or at least partially solved mysteries at the end so I hope it doesn't go full-on lost BS.

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NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!




It hasn't gone full PKD until someone's reaching for a can of Ubik.

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