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just finished season 2! holy poo poo do I hope they never bring back that joyless prick Frank Frink. He was such an entirely unlikeable rear end in a top hat and I'm glad he's dead.
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Jan 4, 2017 08:37
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Delthalaz posted:just finished season 2! holy poo poo do I hope they never bring back that joyless prick Frank Frink. He was such an entirely unlikeable rear end in a top hat and I'm glad he's dead. Yeah I think he's D-E-D dead. But I actually liked his arc. It's implied that he's a generally happy guy before the thing with Julie and Trudy and the IJA . Then we see him go through this petty revenge stage, come close to a religious experience, and then double down on hard rear end motherfucker. That's good poo poo yo.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:24
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Delthalaz posted:just finished season 2! holy poo poo do I hope they never bring back that joyless prick Frank Frink. He was such an entirely unlikeable rear end in a top hat and I'm glad he's dead. Annoying Resistance Failure Frank Frink is dead, but I'm sure we're gonna see Alternate Frank Frink in S3. Hopefully he's less of an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:21
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zoux posted:I guess it is true that if you don't explicitly tell viewers what things are evil you get a whole bunch of people thinking Walter White is a cool as hell person to be, but to me, the permanent surveillance state, the conversations about racial hygiene and the season long subplot about how you have to murder your children if they get sick made me think that life under the Nazis might have a few negative points, as well. I'm reading through the AV Club comments as they review the second series, and it seems even more extreme than that. I've been seeing the argument that creating three-dimensional, even sympathetically motivated, Nazi characters is a step too far for the show. Which is, frankly, insane. That you can be otherwise reasonable, but still a fascist isn't a defense of fascism. It's a criticism of people who think that they can get away with what they're doing because they have sympathetic motivations. It's a criticism of how easily American white picket fence values can gel with Nazism.
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Jan 5, 2017 07:08
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Is it weird that this discussion makes me want to see the show MORE? Like my favorite part of the first few episodes was how they portrayed fascism as something so... banal.
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Jan 5, 2017 07:50
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Open Source Idiom posted:That you can be otherwise reasonable, but still a fascist isn't a defense of fascism. It's a criticism of people who think that they can get away with what they're doing because they have sympathetic motivations. It's a criticism of how easily American white picket fence values can gel with Nazism. This. I've been trying to sort out what bothers me about that argument, "it's irresponsible to show sympathetic Nazis," and that's what it is. I don't think it's that valuable to show Nazis as totally alien, inhuman monsters. It's valuable to show that they were human, and still did the things they did. I can bet the vast majority of Trump supporters aren't Richard Spencer alt-right neo-Nazis. I'm sure many are the same people that jack it over Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan. But they don't see the irony of normalizing super racist policy, because "Nazism" has become this mythic extreme of human evil that they refuse to recognize in real terms. By showing someone like Smith as an accessible and even sympathetic person, viewers are asked to consider his political reality and how they might navigate it in his shoes. In that way, the show's doing something no other WW2/Nazi narrative is doing, which is making the viewer politically uncomfortable. Maybe that's a good thing.
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Jan 5, 2017 08:21
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I don't know what it is about this show that makes it so relaxing to watch. Was worried that'd change with season 2, but nope the unidentifiable something is still there. Soft camera focus? Shot composition? Music? Anyone get the same vibe? Also hoping that S3 focuses entirely on the continuing adventures of Ed and Childan and how they end up ruling the planet. Der Luftwaffle fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 09:56
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^^^ Yeah, the music, low contrast and soft focus I'd guess. I'm honestly surprised how drat good the show got by the end. Season 1 was kind of meh overall and this one didn't start much stronger. But as the stakes were rising and becoming more clear, I really got into it by the second half. Not really sure where they're going to take the show next year, it seems that overthrowing the whole Reich might be a bit too much to attempt but I'm sure they'll think of something. Xealot posted:This. I've been trying to sort out what bothers me about that argument, "it's irresponsible to show sympathetic Nazis," and that's what it is. I don't think it's that valuable to show Nazis as totally alien, inhuman monsters. It's valuable to show that they were human, and still did the things they did.
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Jan 5, 2017 16:30
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Der Luftwaffle posted:I don't know what it is about this show that makes it so relaxing to watch. Was worried that'd change with season 2, but nope the unidentifiable something is still there. Soft camera focus? Shot composition? Music? Anyone get the same vibe? The music is absolutely incredible. Some really powerful tracks in both seasons, particularly that piece that plays when Frank tries to assassinate the Japanese prince. quote:Also hoping that S3 focuses entirely on the continuing adventures of Ed and Childan and how they end up ruling the planet. I wondered if they weren't written out of the show, honestly.
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Jan 5, 2017 16:36
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Open Source Idiom posted:I wondered if they weren't written out of the show, honestly. They're gonna meet up with Julianna in the neutral zone.
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Jan 5, 2017 17:50
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A Deacon posted:It shows how bad Nazis are in every episode. You must have watched a different show. Hopefully, they don't implement a permanent disclaimer across the screen next season reminding us that Nazis are bad due to loud, imbecile man-children such as you. But what about the young nazis? They were worried about the environment and did LSD. Maybe they won't be as bad as their parents???
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Jan 5, 2017 18:30
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Lilikoi posted:Annoying Resistance Failure Frank Frink is dead, but I'm sure we're gonna see Alternate Frank Frink in S3. Hopefully he's less of an rear end in a top hat. Quite FRANKLY, I am uncertain how lively he'd be, what with the bullet hole in the back of his head and all... Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 19:16
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Fog Tripper posted:Quite FRANKLY, I am uncertain how lively he'd be, what with the bullet hole in the back of his head and all... I thought bullet hole Frank was from a different world, not ours, since if he was from our world he would have been a kid when WW2 was going on. But I have no idea how old the characters are. They all look like they're in their late 20s to me, even though Frank's actor is turning 40. But maybe Juliana is into older men who are into skincare.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:40
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lack of ethical oversight means nazi cosmetologists have made enormous strides in anti ageing balm technology
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Jan 6, 2017 00:41
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Lilikoi posted:I thought bullet hole Frank was from a different world, not ours, since if he was from our world he would have been a kid when WW2 was going on. Dunno. I haven't kept track of if the alternate twins were actually from precisely the same period of time. I have been watching too much Dr Who and I lose track.  Which alternate reality of the others was USGI Smith? Not much discussion happened about that and I am honestly surprised. Was a neat little twist. Almost makes me wonder if It might have somehow been a plot twist where Nazi Smith actually started out as a USGI and covertly infiltrated his way into the Reich. I mean they showed DC get nuked and wouldn't that be in the same universe as Nazi Smith? It would really make sense with how him and his wife speak of things like their son and such. There seemed to be a bit of nudge nudge wink wink between him and his wife that might lend itself to this. It's way out there, but I would entertain the possibility. I mean the guy really plays the long game that we've seen. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 02:48
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Fog Tripper posted:Dunno. I haven't kept track of if the alternate twins were actually from precisely the same period of time. I have been watching too much Dr Who and I lose track. Regarding Smith, I took it to be flashbacks of the show's reality, not an alternate one with regard to his service in the US Army. He was part of the US Army that got it's rear end kicked by the Japanese, as alluded to when Chief Inspector asked him about his medal. I could see an American of the 1940s having fought the Japanese regardingthe Nazis as the lesser of two evils pretty easily. He felt his American commanders failed him and saw throwing in the Nazis as his last chance to beat the Japanese.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:03
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Lilikoi posted:I thought bullet hole Frank was from a different world, not ours, since if he was from our world he would have been a kid when WW2 was going on. I never got the impression Bullet Hole Frank was from WW2. I thought he was from an alternate reality where the Nazis were crushing the uprising after Hitler died and they started war with the Japanese.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:05
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Frank Fink changes his name to Frank Frink and he think's that's enough to stump the IJA?
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Jan 6, 2017 04:13
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Regarding Smith, I took it to be flashbacks of the show's reality, not an alternate one with regard to his service in the US Army. He was part of the US Army that got it's rear end kicked by the Japanese, as alluded to when Chief Inspector asked him about his medal. I could see an American of the 1940s having fought the Japanese regardingthe Nazis as the lesser of two evils pretty easily. He felt his American commanders failed him and saw throwing in the Nazis as his last chance to beat the Japanese. Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the case. Smith was a US soldier that joined the SS after the US surrendered, then rose up the ranks. I'm betting that a lot of Americans in the interior resisted the surrender and Smith fought against them, and that's how he befriended Wegener.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:17
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Narcissus1916 posted:Is it weird that this discussion makes me want to see the show MORE? I'm a late arrival to the thread, has Hannah Arendt's The Banality of Evil been brought up? I'm guessing your word choice is not an accident. I love that this show actively daresyou to have emotional reactions to characters that will make you uncomfortable. However, I don't think it's an indictment that the American way of life specifically gels with fascism. More of a warning that humans in general gel with fascism when people are not vigilant and the conditions are right. The Man in the High Castle even gets into this specifically to Juliana at the end, talking about how most people can vary quite drastically from reality to reality. Of course we all want to think that we would do heroic things if we were ever placed in situations like this, but the reality of our history suggests it sadly isn't true for a lot of people. Otherwise, not so much bad stuff would happen.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:23
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I agree with all the posters saying that the treatment of American nazis is well done- they are disgustingly familiar. If viewers find the American Nazis too appealing then they're already a lost cause. Two things to add: I wish we would see working class activism - some sort of a left. The resistance we see in America is vaguely about "freedom" and beating back axis powers but what do they actually believe in? One possibility is, of course, that the left has been brutally suppressed - but so have the liberals. Is there no communist underground? The problematic area where the show actually reifies nazi ideology is the Lebensborn. Apparently the Nazi eugenics program really worked and produced some of the most beautiful actors to appear in the show. I would have preferred the Lebensborn to be more average looking rather than beauties plucked from Calvin Klein ads - Joe Blake is bad enough in that regard.
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Jan 6, 2017 08:53
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Phi230 posted:Frank Fink changes his name to Frank Frink and he think's that's enough to stump the IJA? I thought they mentioned that the Japanese really didn't actively look to do anything about jews as long as they stayed out of trouble. They're all gaijins to the IJA, they don't care that much to be bothered. On the other hand if they can earn cheap favor with their Nazi allies by executing someone they already wanted to kill, they will.
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Jan 6, 2017 13:53
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:I thought they mentioned that the Japanese really didn't actively look to do anything about jews as long as they stayed out of trouble. They're all gaijins to the IJA, they don't care that much to be bothered. On the other hand if they can earn cheap favor with their Nazi allies by executing someone they already wanted to kill, they will. Yeah, Kido says as much to Frank in the first season when he has Frank stripped in the jail cell, that the Japanese have no real quarrel with Jews but he wasn't above killing Frank for a cheap thrill or just shipping him off to the Reich.
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Jan 6, 2017 18:02
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Delthalaz posted:The problematic area where the show actually reifies nazi ideology is the Lebensborn. Apparently the Nazi eugenics program really worked and produced some of the most beautiful actors to appear in the show. I would have preferred the Lebensborn to be more average looking rather than beauties plucked from Calvin Klein ads - Joe Blake is bad enough in that regard. You mean the ugly or stupid or otherwise defective ones that they didn't already muder? Say they were left with 4 perfect ones per 1000 born. 100% success!
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Jan 6, 2017 19:21
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Collateral posted:You mean the ugly or stupid or otherwise defective ones that they didn't already muder? Say they were left with 4 perfect ones per 1000 born. The one really gorgeous German girl that Joe meets kind of has to be good looking, so he gets seduced by the whole place and decides to stay in Berlin.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:25
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Can someone tell me, without spoilers, whether the show has gotten through the whole book? If not, how many seasons would you estimate it will take based on the pace so far?
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Jan 7, 2017 00:46
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Can someone tell me, without spoilers, whether the show has gotten through the whole book? If not, how many seasons would you estimate it will take based on the pace so far? The plot of the book isn't being followed in any real way.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:50
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Delthalaz posted:
Watch the documentary The Act of Killing to get a sense of a real example of what happens when the fascist regime wins. Spoiler: they kill anyone who opposes them and the murderers become heros.
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Jan 7, 2017 02:47
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HannibalBarca posted:The plot of the book isn't being followed in any real way. From what I've heard about the book, that is probably a good thing.
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Jan 7, 2017 02:56
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:From what I've heard about the book, that is probably a good thing. Yeah... the book is interesting in it's own right, but it really doesn't follow a format that would translate well to a show (or movie for that matter), so the decision to use the book as a basic outline and scrap/change stuff that doesn't work was a good call imo. It also explains why it took like 30 years for it to be made into a show, as no one could figure out wtf to do to make it approachable.
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Jan 7, 2017 04:52
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Can someone tell me, without spoilers, whether the show has gotten through the whole book? If not, how many seasons would you estimate it will take based on the pace so far? I've never read the book, but according to Wikipedia, yes, the show has caught up to the book, as far as it has been actually following the book to begin with, which is "very loosely."
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Jan 7, 2017 04:54
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Mike the TV posted:Watch the documentary The Act of Killing to get a sense of a real example of what happens when the fascist regime wins. I have seen this movie - I agree it is pretty good.
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Jan 7, 2017 10:09
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I don't want the show runners to ever develop a special effect for a person traveling between realities. The way they handle it now is sublime, magical and perfect.
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Jan 9, 2017 18:48
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R-Type posted:I don't want the show runners to ever develop a special effect for a person traveling between realities. The way they handle it now is sublime, magical and perfect. I want it to be the same as Quantum Leap, complete with Al. Jk, you are right.
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Jan 10, 2017 04:02
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Volkshalle was nominated for 2 VES awards!!! Only a handful of people from the lead VFX house were nominated so my name isn't up there, but it's still really cool! http://www.cartoonbrew.com/awards/ves-awards-kubo-leads-animation-pack-six-nominations-147432.html
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Jan 10, 2017 22:45
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Delthalaz posted:The problematic area where the show actually reifies nazi ideology is the Lebensborn. Apparently the Nazi eugenics program really worked and produced some of the most beautiful actors to appear in the show. I would have preferred the Lebensborn to be more average looking rather than beauties plucked from Calvin Klein ads - Joe Blake is bad enough in that regard. Eugenics would of course work (in the long run), we have been doing it to our crops and animals for thousands of years. The problem with eugenics aren't the "results", it's the ethics behind it and how you'd get to those results.
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Jan 10, 2017 23:22
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LinkesAuge posted:Eugenics would of course work (in the long run), we have been doing it to our crops and animals for thousands of years. The problem with eugenics aren't the "results", it's the ethics behind it and how you'd get to those results. The Nazis are doing it based on cosmetic ethnic traits, though. That wouldn't work in the long run, because they'd be creating a genetically insular population because they thought blue eyes looked nice. If they think conditions like muscular dystrophy are a problem now, imagine bolstering an even smaller subset of the population for several generations. Recessive gene disorders like whoa.
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Jan 10, 2017 23:41
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The Gasmask posted:Volkshalle was nominated for 2 VES awards!!! Only a handful of people from the lead VFX house were nominated so my name isn't up there, but it's still really cool! 
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Jan 11, 2017 00:15
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LinkesAuge posted:Eugenics would of course work (in the long run), we have been doing it to our crops and animals for thousands of years. The problem with eugenics aren't the "results", it's the ethics behind it and how you'd get to those results. Natural selection results in organisms that are better suited to survive and reproduce in their environment. Artificial selection results in organisms that are better at whatever we’re selecting for, and gently caress everything else. Dogs are less likely to eat our infants than wild wolves are, but they’re clearly inferior in other traits. I don’t have a tonne of confidence that the same political party that rejected atomic physics as “Jew science” would be good at human genetics. They’d just end up with a horrible, human version of Lysenkoism.
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Jan 11, 2017 01:07
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I'm pretty confident they'd be able to generate a population of blonde haired blue eyed people. It's pretty easy to breed for cosmetic effects like that. There are enough blonde haired blue eyed people that provided they didn't decide to further narrow it down they would there should be enough genetic diversity to support them. The added joke is the 1984 ending where propaganda has beautiful Aryans but everyone else has become inbred mole-men.
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Jan 11, 2017 06:50
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