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I saw them as being racial tourists, but genuine. They like American culture and wanted to have a real American friend so they can better understand the American experience. They also probably prize Americans for their sexual virility and natural musical talent. They are racist but they would like to transcend that racism. Unfortunately for them, the only American they know is a nebbish self-hating American.
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Dec 2, 2016 02:31
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Why is this thread so dead? This show seems to be picking up right where it left off, which is a good (possibly great) and very unique alternate history thriller. It feels a lot like Philip K. Dick by way of William Gibson. And a bit of that new Wolfenstein series. Amazon is the betamax/Dreamcast of the streaming world.
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Dec 18, 2016 03:14
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I'm really enjoying S2. The dude who worked on WHG, good loving job! I've always been fascinated by Nazi architecture and so far it captures Speer's style really well (I'm on E5 right now, so I'm very excited to see more of the Volkshalle). But I'm really interested in the costume design. What makes a Nazi stepford wife? What makes an Imperial Salaryman? I'm loving the texture these things add because they are spot-loving-on and someone clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this. Edit: I'm not sure if it's my speakers, but do all the Americans in the Pacific States have an affected soft palate like "Spanish" Spanish? If so, what went into that decision? Edit2: I'm not sure what the rules are for Amazon, but tell your higher ups if they want to ape FKK in Nazi Germany, it should be FKK. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 08:24
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Since this was presumably written and filmed well before the rise of Trump, I don't think it is necessary to highlight the evils of Nazism (and the banality of evil) anymore than the show already does. It's unreasonable to expect a show to predict the rise of Trump so them taking the position of "Nazis are obviously the bad guys" didn't need justifying or qualification. Nazi suburbia looks nice but it is a totalitarian state run on genocide. The parallels with our own world are unsettling and good.
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Dec 20, 2016 22:46
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"There is no such thing as an anti-war movie" So what?
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Dec 20, 2016 23:26
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"Middle America is fascist as gently caress" seems like a good message to me. Also, the Pacific States are crowded. There are always people mulling about, scenes have tons of extras. There is a living chaos in San Francisco. On the other hand, NYC in Naziland is empty as gently caress. That's terrifying.
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Dec 21, 2016 02:22
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Telamon posted:I think it's also a false equivalency considering the locations we saw too. The Kempeitai won't care if they go full mustache twirl in the slums but you know the Reich will take their poo poo out of suburbia. You won't find any crematoriums there, no sir. You have to go the neutral zone to find that stuff. Out of sight, out of mind. To me that sort of implied evil is worse. Heck, Julia's medical screening creeped me the gently caress out. Sure, but we "just so happen" to see more of the lower class people in the Pacific States. I think that Tagomi is a much better man than OGF John Smith but having "inscrutable magic time traveling Asian man with his oriental secrets*" be our emotional touchstone for the ruling class in the Pacific States vs "All American Suburban Family (who happen to be Nazis)" in the Reich is . . . not without its problems. Especially since we can see Tagomi's family being an American story in the Cuban Missile Crisis timeline but since his domestic life is so depressing in the Pacific States we don't have any other touchstones. It reinforces the essential "foreignness" of the Japanese vs. the "Americanness" of the more European Hun. The more I think about it the more anti-Japanese racism starts to creep in around the edges of the writing.
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Dec 21, 2016 03:29
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Platystemon posted:lol if you wouldn’t rather live in the Pacific States than in the Reich Agreed. This is also something the show does really well in a "show, don't tell" kinda way. The Pacific States aren't good but they are a hell of a lot better than what we've seen of the Reich.
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Dec 21, 2016 03:40
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The Gasmask posted:Regarding Tagomi and his "powers", in the first season the fact that the power to travel comes from "Wu" from an object is alluded to. I just figured it was "rectification of the mind". In the book we learn from the Yijing that "our" world is the only true world and that the MIHC world is a fake, in a normal PK Dickensian way. That's also been my least favorite part of this adaptation. The question of "Is the fake replica of the gun that shot FDR real because it can shoot bullets?" is the central metaphor in the book. It's been a long time since I studied the Oracle and the Japanese concept of wu seems a lot more concrete than the Chinese one I'm more familiar with. Like, a mountain can become jade through self-cultivation but the focus on things qua things seems an odd interpretation. It's more the normal interplay between however you say Mingyun (命运), baoying (报应) and yuanfen (緣份) in Japanese. Especially 緣份. Then again, I (unsurprisingly) disagree with Dick's meth-addled interpretation of the Yijing and am fairly unfamiliar with how it is perceived in a Japanese context, so it could be me bringing my own baggage. quote:And (potentially gigantic spoiler) Wow. poo poo. I did not grok that. Like, double triple spoiler that if you are the dude working on the show because now that you say it, it is totally obvious but I never got it from watching the show. Wow. That actually brings a lot of pieces into place in a really cool way. Please tell me there will be epic fights where people from alternate universes use motorcycles-as-swords in future seasons. Jet Li's "The One" is a highly underrated film.
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Dec 21, 2016 05:12
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JFairfax posted:My main problem with this show is I didn't buy the romance / love between the leading man and lady for a goddamn second. I'm unaware of any romance in this show beyond some perfunctory stuff in the first season that was thankfully jettisoned. Or are you being overly heteronormative and talking about the homo?
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Dec 21, 2016 05:49
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:i wish joe's ark wasn't so completely strange and out of place The seduction of power and of the "status quo" is really powerful and something the show addresses really well. Nicole is fairly radical in her politics but dismisses the extremes of Nazism as "just some strange ideas from the older generation" and that the future will be better and more meaningful. While ostensibly rejecting "Nazism" she's basically accepting of the reality the Nazis have created so any reaction is defined within the context of Nazism. She fails to overstand her reality and is trapped in her own hyperreality. Manufactured consent.
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Dec 21, 2016 06:15
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:seduced into nazism by german LSD and pudding Here is a drug my father uses to torture people, YOLO!
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Dec 21, 2016 06:21
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Regarding Episode 10, fun "me" fact. Because Musicals are a degenerate art form, I was exposed to them for the first time in High School through friends. Because of this, I always confuse the end of Cabaret and The Sound of Music. My first exposure to musicals was Cabaret in an intimate little theater. I forget what the term is, but it's where the seats are actually on the stage with the actors and the curtains are closed. Anyway, everyone dies in a violent gas chamber while singing Tomorrow Belongs to Me and you are surrounded by gas. Anyway, I had been told it was "The Sound of Music" so to this day in my mind the Sound of Music ends with the Von Trapp family and a very slutty nun dying in a gas chamber while SS soldiers sing "The Future Belongs to Me". When I saw the movie for the first time, I imagined them running away as a good "hollywood" happy ending. But I was confused.
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Dec 22, 2016 06:13
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The Gasmask posted:Ugh. I was expecting this. I'm tempted to join those discussions and talk about how many Jewish, black, gay, Argentinian, etc people worked on the show's vfx, but it won't make an iota of a difference, they'd just pretend that somehow it's led by secret Nazis. I am glad the children of the Hitler clones finally found creative work on a show made for them.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:11
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Parts of the season felt rushed, probably party due to the change in direction and because parts of the first season dragged taking up more time than they should have. Joe, in particular stands out. I really like his arc of "I'm done with this Nazi poo poo, I just want to live the simple life and also gently caress Nazis" to "Well, my dad is rich and that's pretty cool" right back to "Nope, gently caress Nazis. I can't believe I forgot gently caress Nazis" to "Maybe I can do some good here. I can be a positive force for change within the Reich." It's very human and works as a good audience surrogate, being both repelled and drawn to the lifestyle the Nazis offer. Another poster put it best, "The Reich is a great place to live for bad people."
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Dec 24, 2016 23:35
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Zwabu posted:
Counterpoint: Vichy France. The Nazis were fine letting local supporters rule. Especially since absolute obedience is stressed, so it's not like Smith isn't taking orders from Berlin. Plus, as contrasted with the Pacific States, having a local people ruling makes it easier. Even if they are ultimately puppets. I mean, in our timeline, plenty of lower level Nazis ending up being in the Western German government. The extreme Debaathification we did in Iraq is also cited as one of the reasons the civilian Iraqi government has been such a fuckup as well. Integrating "reformed" low rank officers into the new government is probably part of what made the transition to Nazi rule so peaceful. Well, that and the death camps but we don't talk about those. The Heisenburg device can win the war but it takes something more to win the peace, which the Nazis appear to have done in a more substantial way than the Japanese.
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Dec 25, 2016 00:18
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Year Without a Santa Claus takes place in the Man in the High Castle universe. Proof? 1) No minorities. 2) Hitler has a cameo: 
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Dec 25, 2016 02:50
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Generalplan Ost + The Nazis winning more bigly than they could have anticipated in 1940 due to the Heisenberg device, I think it is a little naive to think that there still are Slavs.
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Dec 27, 2016 02:58
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Fog Tripper posted:You wrote: Person living in a white enclave spotted.
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Dec 29, 2016 03:49
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It's always nice to see someone's red text validated.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:06
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A Deacon posted:I got this for saying that overthrowing Assad is probably a bad idea in the longterm, given the recent historical examples of Iraq, Libya, and Ukraine as a pretext. It's weird how progressives in D&D suddenly have paranoid neocon tendencies now. Your red text is pretty fitting, though. White suburbanite supporting the genocidal status quo: film at 11.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:28
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A Deacon posted:I didn't vote for Hillary. What have you done that is of worth?
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Dec 29, 2016 05:37
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A Deacon posted:I've done many worthy things. This is off-topic, though. It's entirely on topic. I accuse you of being a useless eater.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:42
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:There is an implication, but that isn't it. I'm sure the Reich views Nova Roma as part of the Reich.
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Dec 29, 2016 08:08
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Platystemon posted:“Useless eater” is a strange term for the Nazis to still be using by the ’60s. Because it is a socially acceptable thing so they don't have to frame it in "gentler" terms? "Those are just the ashes from the retard crematorium. Whatever. I don't even remember why we bothered fighting the Nazis."
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Dec 29, 2016 08:17
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I'm pretty confident they'd be able to generate a population of blonde haired blue eyed people. It's pretty easy to breed for cosmetic effects like that. There are enough blonde haired blue eyed people that provided they didn't decide to further narrow it down they would there should be enough genetic diversity to support them. The added joke is the 1984 ending where propaganda has beautiful Aryans but everyone else has become inbred mole-men.
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Jan 11, 2017 06:50
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Xealot posted:After 1 or 2 generations, I'm sure they would be. It's why children of actors and models are often insanely beautiful. Especially if you are enriching the program for "beauty" by selecting not only blonde haired blue eyed people but also good looking blonde haired blue eyed people. And then, as wards of the state, you also give them a great diet and exercise program -- which the Nazi government would have been all about for the Lebensborn had they won the war. Edit: I have no idea if this is true but during the aftermath of the "Stranger Danger" campaign, I remember hearing about an experiment that asked kids to draw a "stranger". They universally drew monsters. A "stranger" wasn't someone who looked like daddy and wants to pick me up for him. A "stranger" is a hulking monstrous beast just wating to do terrible things and kidnap me. Given that the whole "Nazi Next Door" just became politically relevant again (we even have people in this thread advocating for white enclaves and that the Reich looks like a great place to live), your desire to make the Nazis an entirely disgusting "other" seems counterproductive to one of the messages I hope this show is strongly advocating (the now controversial belief that "Nazis are bad"). Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 05:02
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HannibalBarca posted:I got the impression that that was because Ed's lungs were hosed up from the war. The Nazis are pretty cool with wounded war heroes. I mean, at least propaganda-wise. That was true in the real world and true here. Nazi McNaziface's brother suffered and should have been euthanized (like his son will be) but his comrade from the war is still able to live our his life despite his war wounds. They made sure to include those scenes so you know the difference. Ed's thing is that, yeah, he got hurt by the war. But his war wounds aren't what make him unacceptable to the current world.
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Feb 19, 2017 08:28
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Dignity in defeat was a thing in Vichy.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:06
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Wait, I thought the problem was that the show didn't present the Nazis as an ultimate evil and instead made them too attractive so Nazis would watch the show and love it?
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Mar 29, 2017 17:54
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Heil Kek!
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Mar 29, 2017 23:54
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Fog Tripper posted:People assume that the John Smith in the US uniform that saw the DC nuke was the same timeline as John Smith: Groopiehooplefurry. It's much more interesting if he is. Plenty of loyal soldiers in the Wehrmacht realized how evil the Nazi regime was after the war in our timeline. Why wouldn't the same thing happen in reverse if the Nazis had won the war?
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Jun 7, 2017 06:54
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Schizotek posted:Plenty recognized that it was evil during the war, bitched in their diaries about how evil it was, and bemoaned the fact that they were ordered to massacre compliant villagers in Russia. But fought and massacred anyway because that's just kinda what people do. Sure, and I imagine we had the same thing happen here too. "I knew there was something deeply rotten about America when we starting using black soldiers." Especially when it comes to the experimental integrated units (which happened in our world and absolutely would have happened in their world when manpower got very low). War is hell and governments are often alienated from their people. We can reconstruct those two to create a narrative that is on the right side of history. I'm sure there are plenty of people like Smith who adapted to the new world order and admit that they always knew the old order was evil. Hell, they make a point of it in their education system with things like "Pre-Nazi exterminations".
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Jun 9, 2017 01:12
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